Back to the Korax Forum Archives


Forum

What have i to do?

Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:25:46

Alex-bomber_Man

I want to ask RambOrc - what have i to do? I mean, i've entered team but you haven't told me yet what i to have work with.
Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:14:15

RambOrc

You want to do maps for the RPG project, right?
Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:06:52

Alex-bomber_Man

Yes, ofcourse! I want to create part of SE world, work with maps of some region. I'm can't promise that i will work fast, but iwant to take a part in it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Can you give me 4 example a .jpg picture, a landscape map of it - i will work using it as base. I create opened areas wery fast! But i want to create some buildings - town or willage. And ofcourse if project requires some new 3D models or Hi-res textures - ask me, ok? Its pity, but after 1-st september i will not have much time for that <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> becaule of my schoolwork, so i want to start work as fast as it can be <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Will you give me that chance?
Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:28:40

RambOrc

If you really need a picture, I can arrange some, but you are free to work after your own fantasy, as long as it feels like Hexen (it's the same world, after all). Outdoors maps are more needed, so that's good you are interested in doing those. One thing to keep in mind is if you are doing something larger, split it into several smaller maps and link them together by line teleports (i.e. walking through it you get from one map to another), like it's been done e.g. in Strife (the DOOM engine supported this from the beginning).
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 05:27:45

Crimson Wizard

RambOrc, just a small question. Although I am still working on KA, may I contribute Concept Art to Trilogy (I mean - paper sketches, <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> )? The fact is I always has some ideas, but not always capable of implementing them.
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 07:52:46

RambOrc

Sure! There is no such thing as "forbidden" here. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 08:13:41

Alex-bomber_Man

2 RambOrc: Ok, i understand what you mean, but i don't understand, how can I create maps only from my mind if other mappers are working with this project too !? Different maps may become uncompatible because of that: different styles, different minds of mappers will make different worlds, and this must be one world! I think, that it will be batter, iw SE will have a basic landscape map(picture, and all mappers will work with different parts of 1 world - it will be more correct. For example let's take as base current, existing maps, and using them as canter of our world map, draw other parts of this landscape picture around them, understand?
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:17:49

Crimson Wizard

In other words, are there a travel map drawn already for SE. BTW I haven't yet seen SE at all. (Except for screenshots on you website)
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:44:25

RambOrc

Don't worry too much about style, as long as your maps fit the original Hexen world, they shouldn't be a problem. As for an overview map, I've got somewhere one on paper I think, in the meantime here is a part of the continent: [img:417f7ovh]http://korax-heritage.com/images/scatteredevil/koraxmap_v1.jpg[/img:417f7ovh] Also, while what you say is true, we'll build the world in little pieces and connect it all in the last phase. The majority of maps will be dungeons that are not part of the main storyline. If you want to build maps for e.g. the Swamp, you can go for a Darkmere feeling (but with less buildings and more natural parts).
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:28:39

Crimson Wizard

What is the meaning of 1 day of travel?
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:33:55

Firebrand

We are going to implement day and night in SE <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, Vavoom already has some of these implemented very deeply in the core <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:25:49

The 4th Class

Arguably the hardest part in making the outdoor maps would be creating a seemless feel for the horizon. I mean, like in the forest, where everything is natural and there are no signs of intelligent life, you'd have to find a way to make the whole ecosystem flow (for lack of better word <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->). Perhaps the plains are worse, because you have no choice but to use massive (>10,000 squ ft) sectors that could cause too many visible points. Hope I make myself clear. So to you mappers, good luck. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:38:43

The 4th Class

[quote="Firebrand":24kqeuz0]We are going to implement day and night in SE <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, Vavoom already has some of these implemented very deeply in the core <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. By RambOrc's scale, you'd better find a way not to make the wilderness repetitive and boring. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:55:08

RambOrc

You seem to forget Vavoom can put skyboxes all around you and you can remove any of the 6 walls of a cube. This is actually the very idea, making the skybox texture dynamically change and not so much the map itself in huge outdoor maps. E.g. even if you think it's a huge open plain, in game engine terms it's a bunch of small maps tied together with linecross teleports and the feeling of movement is done to some extent by changing skybox wall textures. Not to mention we aren't making a seamless world like Morrowind or World of Warcraft, just a series of maps that tie together in hubs (one location) and with a travel screen mode in between like in the DSA series (there is a topic about it in the devforum where it's explained in detail, including a picture). Here is the scanned in map: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ramborc/dsamap.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... dsamap.jpg</a><!-- m --> - it's the paper version, but in the game itself there was a pixelized version where you only saw a part of it on the screen at any given time, and it scrolled around if you moved around in the map. The red line showed where you were traveling between two locations built in 3D.
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:08:53

Necromancer

Is the black dot the location of the city?
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:12:49

RambOrc

Dammit I just recognized this topic is not in the devforum - I hate it when people do that <!-- s:evil: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_evil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil or Very Mad" /><!-- s:evil: -->
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:14:33

RambOrc

[quote="Crimson Wizard":126g6vem]BTW I haven't yet seen SE at all. (Except for screenshots on you website) If you dig around long enough on kdev (you might have to go to the koraxdev_old subdir), you'll find several internal SE releases with half-finished maps, bunch of features etc.
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:53:09

Crimson Wizard

BTW wasn't it a map from Realms of Arcania vol. 1 ? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:19:26

RambOrc

No, it was from DSA as I think I mentioned.
Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:24:14

Crimson Wizard

And what is DSA? Strangely, whole geography looks very familiar. I even think I remember "Daspota" and "Ottarje" town names.
Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:26:40

The 4th Class

[quote="RambOrc":wtn92e2w]You seem to forget Vavoom can put skyboxes all around you and you can remove any of the 6 walls of a cube. Now how the fuck did you expect me to know that? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> [quote="RambOrc":wtn92e2w]Dammit I just recognized this topic is not in the devforum - I hate it when people do that Confused me too.
Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:48:17

RambOrc

[quote="The 4th Class":140czpwc][quote="RambOrc":140czpwc]You seem to forget Vavoom can put skyboxes all around you and you can remove any of the 6 walls of a cube. Now how the fuck did you expect me to know that? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> ...because it's a standard Vavoom feature since 2001 or 2002 and there are news items, enthusiastic articles and tons of screenshots about it on the Korax' Heritage website? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:35:44

Alex-bomber_Man

Fuck! (excuses <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> ) RambOrc, i dont undersand, why cant you give a link to opld SE maps? I haven't much time for searching it, and i think it's not a problem for you to give a link!
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:32:54

RambOrc

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxdev_old/maps/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... _old/maps/</a><!-- m -->
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:45:17

Alex-bomber_Man

Ok,thanks... I tried it - it requires username and password, but when i tried my pair of them it didn't work. What am i to write there?
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:52:45

Crimson Wizard

Whenever you go to KoraxDev: login: koraxdev password: bull-djinn
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:51:21

Alex-bomber_Man

Thanks, Crimson Wizard! Кстати, а почему ты не отозвался на мои посты в ICQ? Есть о чем поговорить - давай скажи, во сколько завтра можем поболтать. И обязательно скажи в каком ты часовом поясе,OK? P.S. excuses to other users for offtop <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:59:31

Crimson Wizard

Я в Питере живу (GMT +3:00). А ICQ у меня дома не работает, соединение с интернетом такое <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> Я им на работе пользуюсь. Так что только в будние дни примерно с 10 до 19.
Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:14:22

Alex-bomber_Man

Ну так давай чуть-чуть в личке попереписываемся! Ищи там через минуту моё сообщ.
Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:20:15

The 4th Class

SPEAK ENGLISH! It's the natural language of man! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:25:24

RambOrc

Seriously, it's extremely rude to post in a foreign language in English-speaking communities. I mean there are a bunch of IMs, e-mail, PM on this forum etc... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:15:31

mago

Well, I do like the variety. And it's not like they didn't excuse themselves for going off topic. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> (Just lighten up guys).
Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:04:33

Alex-bomber_Man

I give you excuses once more <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> - it's not a trouble
Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:40:22

Crimson Wizard

My excuses as well. <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: -->
Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:38:43

Alex-bomber_Man

Hey, guys, i want to ask - what is with common world map (picture) for all mappers of SE - does somebody will work with it ? And more- i've downloaded OLD maps from ftp server - looks well, BUT i'ven't seen any of vavoom feature using example, and i'ven't found the map, thgat was used to make latest screenshots for SE (on the main SE page). Where am i to find it ? I mean that one map of town\willage, that uses lots of Vavoom features.
Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:56:44

Crimson Wizard

It was made on JHexen, not Vavoom, as far as I know.
Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:52:30

RambOrc

The Vavoom maps should be in one of the newer folders on the top level of kdev, not in the old part.
Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:00:00

Alex-bomber_Man

Please, somebody, HELP!!! I cant find it! <!-- s](*,) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_wall.gif" alt="](*,)" title="Brick wall" /><!-- s](*,) --> <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: -->
Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:52:57

mago

Well, my test maps (including the one in the main page) are here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/Maptests/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... /Maptests/</a><!-- m --> You'll need the "SevTex-26december.zip" for the new textures and flats (you need to load it as an additional WAD besides the map, both in the map editor or Vavoom launcher). Be warned though, these are simply rough test maps that are personnal testing for me, there isn't much more than what is shown in the pics (it's actually a big sector additioned to Jani's exibiton map, with the buildings in it). The Castle wall is also a test map in the same logic, but I guess it never made it to the main page? You can still get a glimpse of it in this post: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1440&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15">http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/vi ... c&start=15</a><!-- m --> (The village is in the first page). Hope you find them useful.
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:13:55

Alex-bomber_Man

Thanks! I will look for it. I ask for it, because i want all SE to be done in one style - i liked screens, so if you will give your authorization, i will create my maps in this style...
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:01:02

mago

Well, I obviously do! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> The point in doing the maps were to both test my new born mapping "skills" and to also suggest a little my vision for them. As we are a group, I think RambOrc will agree that there's space for everyone to test and implement their own ideas and style (if you always wanted to make that nice temple, or that old fortress, or that happy village with medieval looks, we can always find a place in the "world" to implement it!). Everything goes as long as it respects the original game feel and logic.
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:32:39

Alex-bomber_Man

Ok! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> BTW, i've looked the maps - looks cool, something unusual. But i don't understand totally - will it be like something from Elder Scrolls series,where map parts load in time of running through the map, or maps will be connected like in hexen - by gates on some of 'eir ends ? Hmm, what is about i to start working on my idea... What part of world map am i to take? Hills? Fields? I want to create large opened area with rivers and hills, put there some willages. The sizes of map will be something like all the doom2 maps together!
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:07:20

Firebrand

My suggestion would be to make maps of open areas and stuff and we'll find a way to connect them, choose any theme you wish to experiment with (fields, forests, deserts, etc.) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, and create! create! create! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:12:45

mago

Yes, RambOrc and Firebrand might know much more about this, but I think the idea is to have somewhat big maps, but not an entire landscape: they would have teleport lines on their limits, making the player travel in real time from one "section" to the other (without any effects, it is almost unnoticeable). So in a way, they would work like texture patches, one continuing the other.
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:20:19

The 4th Class

I think what Mago means is that the end product will "feel" like one seemless map, but in reality it's many maps connected together. But if you already said that, sorry for repeating what's been said. <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:49:56

RambOrc

OK let me repeat it for the 100th time: no big maps, unless we want to make a game that can't be played. The town map I've been working on for a long time and had to abandon it wasn't even that big, but still it produced so low frame rates it was pointless (something like 10 fps on a Radeon 9700 / P4 3 GHz). Using skyboxes and invisible sector walls it's perfectly possible to create the illusion of wide open spaces, without actually building anything of the like. Also, the whole fighting engine would have to be rewritten for wide open spaces, because the original Hexen one is unsuitable for wide open areas: monsters see you from 500 km if there are no walls in between and projectiles will travel to the end of the world. To answer the specific questions, maps will be connected more or less the same way they were in Hexen, with a bit more freedom, i.e. more linecrosses between maps (Strife used lots of those), if a system can be implemented that can store the exit coordinates and spawn the player on the new map at the right entry coordinates, then there will be more freedom on designing transit points/lines. That said, in the current phase feel free to create any size of a map, you'll learn the limitations of both engine and editors better this way. In the end, most probably we'll end up with a system where most of the scenery is faked on the skybox, giving you a sense of traveling distances by walking through a small plains or forest map that has no visible boundaries, at one point crossing an invisble transit line, and entering another small similar map, but with a different skybox, where e.g. the mountain from the previous map's skybox is now much closer, OTOH if you look back the way you came the mountain that way is now much farther than it looked in the previous map. This solution needs a lot of 2D artwork (well not that much as it sounds, since sceneries are drawn once in great detail and high resolution, then exported in a dozen variations to make it look closer or farther away), but we do have several good 2D artists on the team, so this shouldn't be a prob.
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:59:14

The 4th Class

I think what RambOrc means is that the end product will "feel" like one seemless map, but in reality it's many maps connected together. (Sorry, couldn't resist. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> ).
Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:48:06

The 4th Class

BTW, assuming the landspace is generated by small maps ... would enemies be able to jump from one map to another? I ask this because I think about the outside world, like in a vast field, and say if a hermit ettin gets annoyed by your presence and attempts to run you through, and you evacuate to a nearby "linecross," does the ettin follow you? Because if he doesn't, that may take a huge blow from the fluidity of the maps.
Tue, 29 Aug 2006 17:30:11

Alex-bomber_Man

Hey, is it realy - 10 FPS on such a good mashine ? Imps! I want to see this map - i'ven't got less then 12 fps on 400 MHz and GeForce2 in any maps! Even on big maps, full of monsters! But i agree with you - if projectiles will fly all over the world it will be an FPS killer. But i think that - for economising system resources, we haven't to make line-flying projectiles - all of them must have a gravity parameter, and fall down after some time. Or let they have a parameter like 'energy' , which will fall each second, and after that the projectile will destroy itself - i've used it a lot while creating some 2D games year ago. At all I mean that: maps must be larger then in hexen, much larger, but they have to be ended by hills or something like that around em, and use teleports (or exits/portals - dont remember the real term <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> )
Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:01:26

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Alex-bomber_Man":10886lqz]At all I mean that: maps must be larger then in hexen, much larger, but they have to be ended by hills or something like that around em Not necessarily at all. You may create a steppe ending with nothing, but draw a landscape on a skybox so player will think there's some land stretching far-far away. [quote="Alex-bomber_Man":10886lqz]and use teleports (or exits/portals - dont remember the real term ) Just to be sure you understand it right: you do not need to place PORTALS there. You may make a map teleporter as an invisible line crossing a wide passage like is made in Half-Life for example. All these changes to "fighting engine" mentioned here are so banal one may make them in a single hour or less <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> About monsters travelling between maps - it is an interesting idea, and I am sure it is possible.

Back to the Korax Forum Archives