Well, scoreboard is almost finished, it needs some fixes, plus there should be compatibility for all the game modes (it must hide/show some columns depending on game mode), but that's minor problem. Firebrand mailed me saying that RambOrc asked for making a "healing spell" for cleric. I wish to know, what do you mean exactly, how this spell should work. Secondly, I wish to ask about Football. I haven't yet checked how it is currently implemented, but I guess that it is made using only map ACS. If it is so, I suggest why not remake it thus all the playing mechanics would be programmed in progs instead of ACS, and use ACS only some commands to tell progs what should happen here and there (such as MatchStart, Goal etc).

Reworking football from scratch would be cool if you could do that, the ACS was taken from an old DOS Hexen project from the 90s and slightly enhanced by our team, but it could be more efficient using Vavoom-specific programming. As for the healing spell for the cleric, I think it's the other way around, i.e. removing the healing spell it has and replacing it with a weapon, or were you meaning something else?

I meant - how the spell itself should work? - whom it should heal etc.

Actually, the healing spell is implemented correctly for the cleric, IIRC Ramborc and I discussed some time ago about taking this defensive spell out of the game and replacing it with an offensive spell, but I didn't got a good idea for what to replace it with, and there's where we came to re-balance the weapons for 3rd time before I stopped working on the code for several months. Do you have any good ideas of what to replace the healing spell with Ramborc? Also, if IIRC you also asked me about a new use for the flechettes and discs of repulsion, something like that you could activate/deactivate that any weapons could use them by pressing a single key to activate them, I think that we could just add a flag of some kind for every attack method in the weapons to check if the weapons should use flechettes (with a value of 1) or discs of repulsiong (with a value of 2) or none (0), or something like it, what do you think Crimson Wizard? It's just a matter of adding a flag? or maybe something else?

Frankly, I'm afraid I cannot understand what are you talking about <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> The problem is that I haven't tested all the features KA has, I never tried to use flechettes and discs yet.

They work the same as in the original game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, if you press the 9 key (flechettes) or the 0 key (discs of repulsion), they'll be activated, but it's not very effective, because it's unconfortable in a combat situation to use them, and frankly in all the time I've been working on KA I barely use them in combat, but while testing something, heh! because it's not a good way to implement them, that's why Ramborc suggested me how to implement this. If you check the source code Crimson Wizard, you'll see that every weapon has an if check in their attack, they check if the player has the PI Damage powerup, we could make a similar check for the use of flechettes and discs of repulsions for every weapon, that's what I was saying <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Yep, the 9 and 0 keys should not activate the items any more but instead equip the flechettes (0) or equip the discs (9). Whenever you click the right mouse button, the currently equipped type will be fired. This would be a new variation on the secondary fire concept, this time not being bound to the weapon but freely decidable. E.g. in Half-Life you could throw grenades with the secondary fire if you had the machine gun equipped, this would be similar but any combination would be possible. The 0 could even cycle through the 3 different flechette modes (or the next two keys on the right side of the zero could be assigned to the further modes), this way giving you effectively four secondary attack modes to combine with any weapon. Regarding the cleric's healing spell, wasn't the green glowing version of the morning star the replacement?

Ok, now I've got the idea. I'll think about it and tell my opinion then.

About football. 1) I shall look into your map's ACS, but just in case, can you explain game rules? How he game is going, what events are there etc. 2) I want to create a new object for ball (will take Fire Demon sprite and Firebrand's function A_LetKick). What mobj id I can use?

[quote="Crimson Wizard":1vcbsx8u]About football. 1) I shall look into your map's ACS, but just in case, can you explain game rules? How he game is going, what events are there etc. Yes, the game rules are like those of football (for now <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->) you kick the ball to the enemy team's goal mark, if you make it go inside the goal mark, you score 1 point for your team, I don't know if maybe fragging the opposite team players should give something in return, what do you guys think? 2) I want to create a new object for ball (will take Fire Demon sprite and Firebrand's function A_LetKick). What mobj id I can use? Yeah, go ahead if you want, I'm thinking on doing a special sprite for the ball too, but that once I finish with my current work with the bots. As for the ID number, in the latest update, I commited a new thing types list for all the developers to use, guide yourself with the new numbers, I suggest we keep the list going on, if you add a new object, please write it down to the list so we all keep track of it and that I can write the WadAuthor config file for mappers <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Ok, I'll do. And yes, sprites for the ball are good idea. I suppose there should be at least animated rotation. And what are you going to make it look like? I guess it will not be an ordinary soccer ball <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Well, there are also few extra questions that I want to discuss. Currently (in older football version) player can only kick ball when he comes near it. But I just thought, what if we make ball-conducting mode. Sorry, maybe I use wrong term; I mean - conducting the ball with yourself while moving. For example, when in this mode player cannot use weapons and by performing attack action he/she actually kicks the ball. What do you think? I suppose I can handle this if it is needed. Then, about rules - do we need kickoffs, offsides, penalties etc? BTW, should there be a goal keeper?

Fragging enemy players gives you exp, I don't think more is needed.

Since now there's split between team scores and player scores, we may give personal score for player for a frag and do not give it for team.

Wouldn't it be simplest to let the scoreboard display the two team scores for goals at the top of the screen and frags for the players in the rest of the place?

Well, it is the question of display style, no more. I you wish, I'll make it this way.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":3eoltmqj]sprites for the ball are good idea. I suppose there should be at least animated rotation. And what are you going to make it look like? I guess it will not be an ordinary soccer ball <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I don't know yet, but I can assure that it won't be a normal soccer ball, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> [quote="Crimson Wizard":3eoltmqj]But I just thought, what if we make ball-conducting mode. Sorry, maybe I use wrong term; I mean - conducting the ball with yourself while moving. For example, when in this mode player cannot use weapons and by performing attack action he/she actually kicks the ball. What do you think? I suppose I can handle this if it is needed. It sounds good for me, how about leaving the "jumping kick" mode too, but making it so that the ball also gets some Z velocity with it? the x and y velocities could even be higher, like a long pass shoot or something like that, what do you think? [quote="Crimson Wizard":3eoltmqj]Then, about rules - do we need kickoffs, offsides, penalties etc? BTW, should there be a goal keeper? No, I don't think anything else is needed, as for the goal keeper, I'll try my hand on that, I'll make a special bot spot somewhere so any normal bot can act as goal keeper <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":2fx7vvoh]It sounds good for me, how about leaving the "jumping kick" mode too, but making it so that the ball also gets some Z velocity with it? the x and y velocities could even be higher, like a long pass shoot or something like that, what do you think? I think I'll add my old Thing_Thrust3d action special to KA to use it in the case mentioned.

Sounds cool! I'll keep working on the bots and make an update when I've got something, BTW, I think this weekend I'll have the time to upload a new internal test version, since Janis fixed the problem I had for compiling the new executable <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

How KA maps are stored in WAD file? I tried to open it using WadAuthor, but editor could see only one from all of them (it is castle sweep Heretic's "The Citadel"). I want to try modifying football map so it be compatible with new football mode.

Yes, we have implemented a special naming system for KA maps, IIRC it's something like this: [list:1bfbsmgt]DMxx Are Deathmatch and Team DM mode maps. CTFxx are CTF maps FBxx are football maps MAPxx are castle sweep maps[/list:u:1bfbsmgt] If you want to open a particular map (the football map, I might be guessing), try copying it to another WAD file and rename it to MAPxx format, which is the standard, then modify what you need and copy it back to the KA maps WAD when you are done, I know it's a pain to do it now, I was thinking on removing this while we are still developing, since it's a bit difficult to have it active at this stage.

Well, actually it isn't that big problem to copy map from one wad to another. Ah, and, hey, I have good progress with football. Maybe I'll upload first version this sunday. I have created new class, Game, which is going to be a parent class for advanced game modes. Then derived GameFootball class from it. GameFootball contains all the necessary rules. I suppose the whole thing is very flexible. It makes it rather easy to control game process thru ACS as well. Here, how base ACS script for football looks like now:

#include "vcommon.acs"
#include "korax.acs"

script 1 OPEN
{
     print(s:"LET THE GAMES BEGIN!");
     ambientsound("KoraxVoiceGreetings", 127);
     ACS_Execute(2,0,0,0,0);
}

//
// [CW] this script runs match
//
script 2 (void)
{
     int i;
     delay(35 * 3);
     AGame_SetGameObject(499, ftb_object_ball, 0,0,0);
     AGame_SetGameObject(500, ftb_object_ballspot, 0,0,0);

     i = 0;
     while (i < 8)
     {
          AGame_SetGameObject(501 + i, ftb_object_playerspot, 0, i, 0);
          AGame_SetGameObject(501 + MAXPLAYERS + i, ftb_object_playerspot, 1, i, 0);
          i++;	
     }

     AGame_BeginState(ftb_state_preparematch);
}

//
// [CW] this script handles the goal
//
script 3 (int gates)
{
     delay(35 * 2);
     AGame_HandleEvent(ftb_event_goal, gates, 0,0,0);
}

And that's all <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Really, all is working. Ball is kicked, when pushed into the gates, corresponding team gets a score and everyone is teleported back to their starting positions (AFAIK it is called "kick off" <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> ).

Nice work! This method seems very flexible for adding new rules for scoring to almost every single gameplay mode, well thought Crimson Wizard! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I updated progs. Will make comments later.

Nice work! I really like what I see here, but I couldn't understand why you did remove all line specials and tags, is there something wrong with those? Also, I don't quite understand how the "aerial" shoot works, sometimes I press USE in from of the ball and it just goes straight up, and sometimes it follows a projectile trajectory, of course, I haven't seen the code <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Maybe I'll give it a check and see what's it doing <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Also, I have uploaded a new version of VCC, it corrects the problems we have had with the 3 extra bytes in the edited files, please download it to stop them <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. There's also a new version of VLUMPY which also fixes small issues, please get it too it's in the same folder. I haven't seen the latest changes in the Vavoom source, but if it fixes the problem it had with sound, I'll upload a new internal test version ASAP.

I removed all the original scripts, tags & line specials simply because I didn't want anything else present on map, except for what is needed for my football version test. Ofcourse, it is better to merge current version with original one. Actually I just do not know what was there in scripts except for ball movement and I decided not to explore it this time. Now about the ball movement. Ball movement (velocity vector) is a summ of two forces: a force of player speed and a force of player kick. If player just runs into ball, ball moves horizontally. If player only kicks it (by pressing & holding USE for some time) it moves at an angle, which depend on how long you held USE - from 0 to 90 degrees. If you run while holding USE, then ball is thrusted at corresponding angle PLUS receives horizontal velocity, depending on player's speed. For REAL BIG SHOT <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> - run to the ball from far distance and press&hold USE while being still far from the ball (1.5 seconds approximately before hit the ball). Well, maybe it flies too far, in this case we'll simply edit couple of constants there.

Or if necessary, the stadium map can be enlarged, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Well, yeah. I also wanted to make ball bounce, set bFloorBounce flag there, but it did not worked. Maybe it must be done somehow else? Then. Since Firebrand is making bot AI he surely needs to know how to get the reference to active ball. It is a member of GameFootball object. And GameFootball reference is stored in GameMode variable of MainGameInfo class. It is necessary to check wether GameMode exists (not null), and Ball as well. Since it sometimes may not exist; GameMode - hypothetically, if something went wrong during its creation (and, ofcourse, if it is not an advanced game mode), Ball - if map designer forgot to set up ball_spot and ball things. Please, do not try to seek for balls on the map - use only GameFootball's reference, since theoretically there can be many balls, but only one is active (can make goals).

I was making a new Triggers for Vavoom, they are full 3d triggers. The problem is that with all those 3dfloors you still cannot make 3d trigger. For example, you make complex maps with several levels one above another, then you will wonder how to make a trigger (which runs some action special) detect player only if he is standing on exact level. It is almost impossible to make this using common linedefs. So, I invented this solution: created new object class that manages triggering. It uses not lines, but Map Spots to specify triggering area, thus making it possible to detect player crossing exact space literally in any point of map at any height. Currently I am testing them, when I'm done, I'll upload new code.

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> ...well, after I fix all those bugs I found in last hours... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

[quote="Crimson Wizard":r25rpx2l]:lol: ...well, after I fix all those bugs I found in last hours... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> It always happens, when you think you are done, some new bug appears, heh! <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

I made it, I made it <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> they're really working! Heh, but now code needs big cleanup after all the fixes I made, and also it is midnight here, so I'll finish work tomorrow.

I asked Janis if he would wish to add my detectors to original Vavoom. Still waiting his answer. If he agree I will not upload them to KA then. Otherwise, I probably will ,because they are useful. Anyway, what is here need to be done now? Do we need CTF for the first KA release?

While some of the team would like to see CTF, I'm not too keen on it, having played CTF in Q3A and UT with bots and it sucked big time (less so in UT, but still). So I'm not too convinced we could pull it off so much better than those programmers, and a sucky game mode that isn't even original doesn't make much sense to me. That said, I have absolutely nothing against implementing it, it's your call. Personally, I'd be more interested in some of the more innovative game modes like Kill The Heresiarch (see <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KoraxArenaConcept_1_1.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... pt_1_1.pdf</a><!-- m --> for a list of planned game modes). KTH also has the big advantage that it doesn't need anything special on a map, it can be played perfectly on any DM map, meaning it's 95% a programming job and then it's all done (the 5% is all 2D art, adding the original Hexen graphics to the wadfile and assigning them to the Heresiarch plus making a special in-screen HUD and maybe some spell effects graphics). Another thing that should be fairly easy, built upon the team deathmatch (which I'm still not sure how far it is already functional?), all it needs is a couple of special points in the map and a bit of code to handle which team owns them and to count the team points. "Kill the fool with the chicken" might be relatively simple to code too, you coders should decide. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I'd say let's leave Assault and Summon Contest for way later, they are surely complex and also need heavily customized maps and stuff.

I would really prefer to speed things up for a final release of version 1.0 of KA, since the new aplicant wants to work on our RPG project, I think it would be a cool idea to determine what's left to finish for a KA release, then focus our work on that, make a final release, then maybe fix the bugs (if there are reported), make a new re-release of the fixed stuff and then move on to make some advance on the preparations for the RPG project, that my personal opinion of it. As for what's actually working for KA, here's a small list: [list:2yaizc4s]- DM and Team DM are mostly done - Castle Sweep and Team Castle Sweep can be considered done codewise, there could be some more improvements for the bots on these two modes, but I'm working on it as of now. - Football, it's almost done, the only missing stuff is the bots AI, I'm handling it very slowly because I'm busy with real life, but I'm progressing at small steps <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. - CTF, I guess we should implement it too, I don't know how well the bots will work on it, I haven't really made any thinking on how to implement CTF, the only idea I've got to make the bots usable on this gameplay mode is to create new versions of path nodes (red & blue), so they know which ones to follow when they are in a certain "state" (attacking/defending).[/list:u:2yaizc4s] If you want to make something else Crimson Wizard, you could try to implement the "double kill", "triple kill", etc. messages to the game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, that would be cool to have on this release. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Maybe I'll see what I can do with Kill the Heresiarch mode first, since I think that it is better to have something really innovative. As for extra messages - they should be simple, since it is only a question of adding killing counters. But whose voice we will use? Anyone got a microphone? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

I've got one, I'll try to see how far I can distort voice so that it sounds cool.

Finally we will hear how orcish voice sounds. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Ahem, back to buisness. Here's what is written in your "Concepts" about KTH:

At start, one of the players becomes the Heresiarch, which is a very powerful wizard with lots of HP and some formidable spells.

What if we make it a bit different? E.g. there's some artifact (or maybe just a magic area) that transforms player into Heresiarch. Then, players must first find it to become H. Another variant - there's an artifact, say - Heresiarche's Soul. Player must take it and bring to some Magic Circle. (we may place that artifact right into circle at the beginning). Then, when Heresiarch is killed, another player tooks Soul and he must then bring it back to Circle to become Heresiarch himself.

I would leave it to just pick up the artifact <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Since players can't attack each other, it'd be boring to have to wait til someone finds some item to morph. Also, once the Heresiarch is dead, a new one should be there at once, else the game pace will suffer.

OK, I should agree, that Heresiarch killer must transform immediately. But I still insist on primary phase where people are searching the artifact (or magic place) because IMO it would be strange to just make someone Heresiarch randomly. What do you think? I also have three extra questions: 1. When you say that players cannot attack each other, do you mean they cannot damage each other? 2. When Heresiarch is killed, and another player become a H., should he stay at the same place or be teleported away? 3. Still, should there be artifact falling from dead H.'s body need to be picked up or should H.'s killer transform just so at once?

Ah, now I remember, it's the first player who gets a frag who becomes the Heresiarch. 1) Yep, it's friendly fire like in coop, if you shoot at another player it causes zero damage. 2) Stay at the same place. 3) Transform at once. This way, no crappy players can fuck up the game by hiding or not picking up the artifact etc.

Well, that is all I need to know for now. Shall try to make it. And I think, since this game mode does not need any additional places/objects, we can run it on any map, yes?

Exactly, that's one of the advantages of several game modes, they can be played on the same deathmatch maps as DM and team DM.

Currently I am working on prizes like "doublekill" etc. I have made a split on what I call "Trophies" - they are prizes that are available in any amount - , and what I call "Badges" - they are prizes given after the game in single quantity. Write here all the ideas you have about those prizes. Currently I am planning to make following categories: - kills-at-once (fraggingplayers) (multiple kills in short time) - killing sprees (term?) (for large number of kills until death) - accuracy (succesfull hit from a long distance) - efficiency (large amount of damage per shot OR hitting many targets using Ripping weapon) - death rows (for large number of deaths until first frags - for lamers <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> ) Badges invented so far: - Terminator - several high kills-at-once and killing sprees trophies. - Ultimate Lamer - many deaths and no frags at all. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

How about boobie prizes? Most deaths with the least kills Shutout (no kills during the whole game) Most suicides etc.

I still don't really see the point of all this, but don't mind me. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

What do you mean? wasn't that you who suggested making announcements like "double kill", "tripple kill" etc?

Not that I can remember, no. And I'm especially sure I never said anything about Q3A-style rewards. That being said, I have nothing against it, I just wonder whether it's something that makes sense to be copied.

Hmm, interesting. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Now I remember, it was Firebrand's suggestion. Maybe we should invent something KH-styled?

Yes, I don't like the "medals" idea, it's stereotyped and boring, i.e. it really doesn't adds anything interesting to the game, I prefer to just have the announcements.

What should be time limit to complete next kill before previous one for multikills?

You could make a 1 second timer using tics (1/35 sec), then if the timer is greater than 1 or 1.5 secs, you fail it <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->, heh!

Do not tell me how to make timer, FB. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

<!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> I know you can do it, heh! Just giving a small example of how it should work <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Thanks. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Probably I'll finish these this weekend. But I wonder, where's our announcer? Is he still with us? Hope he'll make those new voice samples.

Do we need a mouse support for UI? I asked Janis how I may make it, seems possible.

I don't think it's necessary for this project, maybe the RPG could use more. If you want to add it, go ahead, no problem at all <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

About Whyvern weapon. How damage modifying should be made there? I still do not understand this system.

The damage seems alright, but it needs a few other things: 1. I think it would be better as a continuous attack instead of the three shot burst. 2. The mana usage should be cut in half. Right now, at level 1, it uses up 20 per fireball, and all three fireballs fire even if you have less than 60 mana (or mana/fireball x 3 for higher levels) 3. The delay between the initial impact and those napalm explosions should be decreased a bit

Last 2 are ok, mana cost is fixed already (but not in release, though). But why do you want a continuous attack? Won't it be too powerfull?

Not if it's for weapon 7.

For damage modifiers, check out the other weapons, if you still have questions, just ask again <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

I mean, I do not know much about weapon balance, so its not me perhaps who should define damage.

I'll give it a go then <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it's another thing I want to finish for this weekends test release <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. It's near completion BTW.

Attention, please. Here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15568#15568">http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/vi ... 5568#15568</a><!-- m --> I wrote example of core Football map script. From now following line must be changed:

AGame_BeginState(ftb_state_preparematch); 

It should be written like this:

while ( !IsConditionTrue(cndt_agame_stateis, ftb_state_preparematch) )
{
         AGame_BeginState(ftb_state_preparematch); 
         delay(35);
}

Crimson Wizard, I think there's a problem with the modifications you made to scoring frags, it doesn't counts monster kills or there's a problem with it, that's what's causing the Castle Sweep crash AFAIK, could you please check this out <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: --> Thanks!

Okey, I'll check it ASAP. EDIT: Yes, there's an error, but it is not connected with scores, but with one feature for KTH mode, I occasionally misplaced one function call in Actor::Died() function. Sigh... Maybe we had to made a quick test of all the modes first before making a beta release. Such a stupid bug there ruins all the Castle Sweep mode. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

LOL it wasn't by chance I insisted on a public beta, this way there is only one official latest version, everybody is testing the same, and so all basic problems surface really fast. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Yep <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, Ramborc is right, everyone is testing this with their own class selections, weapon combinations, different maps, etc. Which makes a lot easier to track down bugs that maybe we wouldn't find, I think it was a good choice to make this, that way we'll keep fixing bugs until we are ready to show 1.0 final, we can keep uploading new versions without any problem in the next following weeks, I've completed 2 new maps, that will also add new elements, I'll try to finish the heresiarch claws and other missing sprites, so new content can be seen. @Ramborc: I read the problem you had with Curse, I'm having the very same problem myself, Janis said this had to do with the size of the network buffer, I know how to increase this size, but it's extremely volatile to make this, the only time I tried it, the results were catastrophic, crashes here and there with things that in normal conditions work fine <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> , I don't know how to fix this in a feasible way <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, we'll have to wait until Janis provides us with a hint on this.

I am telling this to know if anyone have some comments/objections. I wish to change main menu so it will be different when in game. Instead of "outgame" look with 3 options (multiplayer, options, exit game), it will have a number of options depending on what is allowed in exact moment. For example, full number of options this far will be: Select Team (reselect tem - only in team game) Add bot Remove bot (maybe with submenu which allows to select exact bot by name) Options (common options as always) End game (disconnects client) Exit game (as always) I've already managed to make Main Menu initialize differently depending on time it is called (out-game or in-game).

Sounds good.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":k2vcq5u4]I am telling this to know if anyone have some comments/objections. I wish to change main menu so it will be different when in game. Instead of "outgame" look with 3 options (multiplayer, options, exit game), it will have a number of options depending on what is allowed in exact moment. For example, full number of options this far will be: Select Team (reselect tem - only in team game) Add bot Remove bot (maybe with submenu which allows to select exact bot by name) Options (common options as always) End game (disconnects client) Exit game (as always) I've already managed to make Main Menu initialize differently depending on time it is called (out-game or in-game). I have always wanted to design my own main menus for Dark Realms, but I just never had the skill (nor the power) to do it. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

[quote="The 4th Class":2gwgdf75]I have always wanted to design my own main menus for Dark Realms, but I just never had the skill (nor the power) to do it. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> What's really essential here, is that you never had original Hexen sources. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I am not sure it may be very difficult to make your own menu.

Sounds good to me too, Crimson Wizard, just make sure you update your files before beginning, I added missing video options and other things to the client side, this should change the classes.vc file a lot, just to make sure you have it all updated and that no changes will be lost in the process <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

There's another thing, I am not sure I will do it right now, but anyway what would you say if we make something like short decription with a couple of low-resolution screenshots for each map during game selection? You know, something like:

.....
.....
map:    ancient arena

description: ancients played here for life and death. now it is your time.

 |--------------|     |--------------|
 |              |     |              |
 |    pic 1     |     |    pic 2     |
 |              |     |              |
 |--------------|     |--------------|

Sounds cool, but there's no need for this right now IMO, if you want, you can make some screenshots of the maps and test it yourself <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Great idea! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Here are two questions I got concerning automatic loading maps after previous map was played (currently this happens when time runs out). 1. Must old bots be removed and new ones randomly spawned on the new map? 2. Must teams in team game be destroyed and players put into team selection menu once more on starting new map, OR old teams from previous map should be kept as they were when previous match ended (assuming that player may change team at any time by calling corresponding menu)? Oh, and also. Firebrand, don't you think that Poisonous Breath spawns clouds too far away from player initially? It seems absolutely useless when enemy attacks you from close distance.

1. Yes 2. The player and his team should be kept the same, if there's no other player in another team it should be changed. Nothing is carved on stone yet <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, if you wish to change anything just change it, I don't really mind, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Oh yeah, there shouldn't be more than two teams available for choosing, only red and blue. Also, bots must not choose a team that has already more members than another.

[quote="RambOrc":3822wp9p]Oh yeah, there shouldn't be more than two teams available for choosing, only red and blue. <!-- s:-s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /><!-- s:-s --> Nuuuu... why so boooring? why not allow up to 4 teams of any colors? my code already checks what number of teams is used and limits new player's choice correspondingly. [quote="RambOrc":3822wp9p]Also, bots must not choose a team that has already more members than another. Maybe set a new option for this? "Autobalance teams" or something like that.

Well when I tested team DM, I ended up several times alone in my color, with up to 3 bots in a team of a different color. Also, UT and Q3A allowed up to 16 or 32 people to play and still offered only two teams, why would we want more for 8 people?

[quote="RambOrc":3kpcl6dz]Well when I tested team DM, I ended up several times alone in my color, with up to 3 bots in a team of a different color. Also, UT and Q3A allowed up to 16 or 32 people to play and still offered only two teams, why would we want more for 8 people? UT allowed up to 3 teams (red/blue/green). And what if 8 people will wish to play split by pairs? Well, ofcourse I may make 2 max teams limit, but why change color selection to red/blue? What if I will wish to play Grey or Yellow team? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I think that for some gameplay modes (Football, Team Castle Sweep, etc.) there will only be need for just 2 teams, but other game modes (Team DM, and others that aren't even started yet) will need more than 2 teams, and it wouldn't be too difficult to limit certain game modes to 2 teams, right?

I had already made this. Football has limit of 2 teams, while (currently) DM and CS - 4 teams.

Unfortunately removing bots in any case is impossible yet, as Janis explained me. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

OK, my exams week is finished, so now I'll be free to work on KA again, there's a lot of things that need to be fixed before continuing forward with new stuff. I've downloaded a useful tool that I've been using to determine if the KA source is updated to the latest version of the progs used by Vavoom, unfortunately, it's not the case <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, so I'll keep using WinMerge to update our source files and update the repository when I'm done, it should really make improvements on certain bugs and network problems to KA, so I think it has to be complete before proceeding to work on new stuff, if we continue like this, there's a chance some things would need to be changed again later, so it's better to start clean IMO <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I also have some new ideas regarding map revamping, but I'll continue with that after the actual codebase is updated and I implement some AI upgrades I've got incomplete <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":b0lw4urd]I've downloaded a useful tool that I've been using to determine if the KA source is updated to the latest version of the progs used by Vavoom, unfortunately, it's not the case <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, so I'll keep using WinMerge to update our source files Very strange, hadn't you tried SVN Merge tool integrated in Tortoise SVN? It seems very useful for me, I never felt any need for other tool.

I don't get used to the interface, I prefer WinMerge, besides I have both sources on my HD, and WinMerge allows to open two different files in the local HD, which IMO is faster and better <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

By the way, since we are talking about SVN changes, what do you think about making an updated internal build? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Currently I am making my AI experimental changes based on Doom2 progs for simplicity, but work is coming to its end (I hope), so I will need last progs version in KA to implement it. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Sure! Right now I'm at work, but once I get home I'll update the SVN repository with the latest changes and prepare a new internal version for tonight or tomorrow <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

First than anything, sorry for the delay on the internal build, the SVN Repository went down and I was unable to commit the changes, yesterday's night I uploaded the changes to the repository and also uploaded new versions of both VCC and VAVOOM executables to suit the changes <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I've started some small changes that will be finished this afternoon at most, and yesterday I'll have some time to upload a new internal build, so remain in calm <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.