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New SE ideas

Tue, 28 May 2002 14:11:00

RambOrc

1) The Cleric's mace could suck HP from enemies like the Serpent Staff does. It could be a spell upon the player that wears off or an enchantment on the weapon itself. 2) Extra monster animations, like a Centaur stopping in mid-stride, raising its shield to the heaven, and bellowing a challenge, then charging you as always. Or an Ettin that throws its mace into the air and then catches it again. I guess it depends 99% on Mago.
Tue, 28 May 2002 14:31:00

Ichor

Amazing. I use that very thing in my game. When you use the Tome of Power, the mace has increased range and can drain away life. As for the Centaur, how about when he raises his shield in the air, a bolt of lightning comes down (unless he's inside maybe?) and hits the shield, giving it extra power. He then fires that power right at you for some enormous damage.
Tue, 28 May 2002 15:05:00

RambOrc

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ichor: <strong>Amazing. I use that very thing in my game</strong><hr></blockquote> Not to damper spirits any, but I've simply stolen the idea from Hexen II (Necromancer). [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] As for the move, I was thinking about extra moves that have no influence on gameplay but make the visual experience richer (I laughed myself to death when I first saw the goblins or whatevers in Wizardry: Nemesis tossing their daggers up into the air - and catching it afer it turned around twice or so - between two thrusts aimed at the player). But your idea with extra moves that change gameplay is also cool. This one is more work on the programming side as well.
Tue, 28 May 2002 16:42:00

mago

Animations: well, they would be very cool aditions to the game. I Think I could try some, and then you could see if it's good. Since I'm already writting, I think I should say that, as you may have noticed, I've been a little quiet in those last few weeks. That's because my final tests and exams, and the studies are eating my time like sharks. I'm already late for lots of things (like the comic...), so I don't think I could start right now. Just some questions: have you found that list of mods? I would really need it now, so I could work on the easy parts first. Would you want the new animations before the others mods? I mean, just after the damaged skins? If you want to know, I'm stuck with the more-than-one-hundred Centaur's sprites right now. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] What about the new player's weapons? Which country will win the World Cup? [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Anyway, as for the cleric's mace, I don't think it should suck the health out of enemies, because it is a too easy and unbalanced way to gain more health. I think he should have only a healing spell, like the others clerics around. [ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Wed, 29 May 2002 16:28:00

mago

Well, forget about list, I've found it. It's in the "Boss is short on time" topic, if you want to take a look. Now, I'm getting back to my work (studies and sprites, too [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ).
Wed, 29 May 2002 17:23:00

dj_jl

New animations sounds cool. Mostly it depends on graphics. Adding them will be easy. Sucking health - doing this with staff isn't enough?
Sat, 01 Jun 2002 21:10:00

mago

Mr. RambOrc, did you find time to collect those Witchaven's weapons animations? I'm really anxious to take a look at them! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] By the way, Janis, is there any way to increase the number of pixels in the sprites? I thought about lots of things (like make bigger sprites (with more than 100 pixels high) and then change the player's POV so they wouldn't look giants, also increasing the maps features, to fit in, but it just wouldn't look riht...), but what I would like to know is if the sprites could get a little easier to edit, with more pixels to work on. I think the Duke Nukem's sprites are a bit better (has more pixels) than the Hexen's, and everything looks ok. How come? Could you explain it to me, before I go crazy? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:41:00

dj_jl

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
By the way, Janis, is there any way to increase the number of pixels in the sprites? I thought about lots of things (like make bigger sprites (with more than 100 pixels high) and then change the player's POV so they wouldn't look giants, also increasing the maps features, to fit in, but it just wouldn't look riht...), but what I would like to know is if the sprites could get a little easier to edit, with more pixels to work on. I think the Duke Nukem's sprites are a bit better (has more pixels) than the Hexen's, and everything looks ok. How come? Could you explain it to me, before I go crazy? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
If you mean detail level, then it's not supported. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:45:00

mago

Yeah, that's what I meant... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:30:00

RambOrc

Oh my, what a sad evening... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]
Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:35:00

RambOrc

While I don't see the point of trying something for Scattered Evil, for the Vavoom-based projects it'd be cool if the texture detail could be higher (like a 256x256 pixels texture that's stretched only as big as a 128x128 one currently). Same for the sprites. This would already increase the effective resolution to 4x of the current one, making for a graphical difference similar to what you get when playing DOS Hexen at 320x200 or playing MacHexen at 640x400. p.s. I made a note about Witchaven on my desk, it's right on top of the post-it note I put there 4 months ago about looking for pixel editing tutorials for a certain guy who wanted to be called "Animal" at first but then opted for a different nickname... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 09:56:00

mago

Oh no, please! NOT a post it note! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Have you seen a film named Memento (Guy Pearce and Carrie Anne Moss)? I think you would identify yourself really well with the main character of that film. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] And by the way, who is the guy you mentioned? I don't know him... [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Well, did you recieved the e-mail? Nobody answered yet... Well, you now may officially forget about that busy thing, because now my tests have passed, and I'll have some days free (untill my exams). So, I'm ready for action, once again. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] "Time to get it on!" I have completed two series for the Centaur/Slaughter sprites (seire 1 and 2), and I think the most well done of all hurted skins up to now. Do you wanna see them? [ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:13:00

RambOrc

I haven't seen the film becuz I haven't seen a single film in the last 5 years. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I hope you're just joking about that guy, I don't want a schizophrenic on the team. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] You mean the e-mail with the in-screen hands and stuff? I still can't believe it's been made by you. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Yes, send over the new "damage skin" sprites, I'll take a look at them next month... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] (p/k)
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:58:00

mago

So, the graphics are so low-quality that you can't believe I did them, right? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] C'mon, please say something about them (all, the ones I sent before too). [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] So you saw the movie, huh? Fantastic, in my opinion. The actor, Guy Pearce, is very talented, isn't he? But if you weren't joking, I suggext you go out now and rent it! I'm sending the Centayr now... Hey, now I remember! I must make the woman! I forgot about her. Damn, SE will be BORING without some ladies. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:23:00

RambOrc

I wonder why I take the energy of trying to put through some positive feedback when it's understood as negative anyway, LOL... The hands and arms looked really cool, though until I see them in the actual game I can't say anything about them. As for the movie, it was no joke, I stopped watching TV nearly 10 years ago and the last time I was at a cinema was around '97. As for renting it, not only don't I have a VHS device, I don't even have a DVD-ROM drive for my PC (at least that's something I had back in 2000 but was so pissed with it I swapped it against a plain CD-ROM drive). Yes, make several women and other town NPCs as well, what about a guy in a tunic (like the ones in Strife)?
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:37:00

mago

And I was joking too! I wonder why everybody seem to interpret my words the wrong way... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] As for stopping watching tv, I can't blame you, it sucks, and gat worse evrytime. But movies... Well, I love movies, specially the "crazy" ones, the ones who do not obey any formula (like the one I named). Could you explain why, RambOrc? AS for the graphics, well, they look exactly how they would in the real game. Some of them aren't in 256 colors, but I know a method which keeps almost the same quality as in 16 bits, so they will look almost the same. I'm saying this based on your affirmation that's it's possible to add any graphic in 256 colors, not only in the Hexen's pallete. It's right, isn't it? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Say it is! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 22:07:00

Ichor

I think it it theoretically possible. The MD2s used in the Korax mod uses the Hexen 2 palette, not the one from the original Hexen.
Tue, 04 Jun 2002 23:21:00

RambOrc

The old 0.99.6 jHexen version people around these parts [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] use has already support for 256 independent colors for every single texture/sprite. Current jHexen versions (which we can't use) and current Vavoom versions have already support for 16bit (or 32bit) textures/sprites, so it'll get even easier in Korax Arena and Serpent Power.
Wed, 05 Jun 2002 14:25:00

mago

16 bit for sprites too? But that's wonderful! I'll be able to make better sprites this way. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:53:00

RambOrc

Get final clearance from Janis before you do this, though, I'm not 100% sure in what I said.
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:03:00

Ichor

I'm sure you all know about the Heresiarch bug (the one where he will mysteriously have more than three spinning balls over his head and casts spells much faster than usual). I put in an idea on how to fix it in the Some kmod2 bugs category.
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 14:13:00

RambOrc

I never experienced it in the game, but I saw your post when it was new and assumed Janis will take the necessary steps. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:08:00

dj_jl

About colors. Doom engine uses a palette of 256 colors which is used for all graphics in the game. Currently Vavoom has support for 16, 24 and 32 bit graphics only for model skins and skyboxes. But 16-bit sprites also won't be a problem. Heresiarch. This function is executed when Heresiarch is spawned. And if it's executed more than once means that somehow Heresiarch gets back to it's spawn state. Normaly in single player this shouldn't happen. In multiplayer - maybe, if there's no player in sight when current target is dead. The code that Ichor posted fixes the problem.
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 18:45:00

RambOrc

I guess that means Mago should stick to 8bit sprites for Scattered Evil?
Thu, 06 Jun 2002 21:22:00

Ichor

It generally happens when he begins spawning a bunch of Dark Bishops. Eventhually one of those are going to accidently hit the Heresiarch. When that happens, there is a chance that he will turn and attack the other enemy. And when that happens, there's a chance that he will return to the spawnstate again, especially if he loses sight of you at that time. A good test is to go to the Gibbet and hit him until his health is below halfway and he starts throwing out the Dark Bishops. Wait until there's a lot of them, then use the Chaos Device. Wait a few minutes and go back in, although it you wait too long, you'll have a dozen or so Heresiarchs to deal with, all of them will probably be faster than usual, heheh.
Fri, 07 Jun 2002 01:22:00

mago

Hey, RambOrc, maybe you should do a complete list of EVERYTHING that will (or needs to) be done for the SE project, otherwise, how shall we give you any ideas? And if you haven't a paper to take notes, how will these ideas be remembered? The list could have everything pertinent to us, like main plot or story, details about base gameplay, engine mods, sprites needed (and for what they will be used), ALL suggestions made untill now, or the ones you think are the best, your own ideas and decided facts, since you are the one with the project in the head, etc. ; in others words: a document of with all data needed for us all (even for you, the list would help you a lot), like a script for a movie. Example: "We will have a mod which will be an adventure after the real Hexen game, and we will be an adventurer for hire, going on different missions to ensure the monsters which were left in the world will be destroyed. We will have 6 maps. Before each of them the player will appear in the Town, where he will be able to buy things (list of things), seek knowledge with the Leader (maybe some tips, and the list of them), look for the king (or whatever) where he will learn about the following mission, and/or go outside and be "transported" to the mission map. Map 1: Swamp. Lots of Ettins, and those aquatic monsters. Maybe a boss (moddified Stalker (I think it's teir name). Some treasure for the player ina hidden place. Secret: there's a NPC lost in the swamps. If the player finds him, he should escort him to the city and win a reward for it. Map 2: Forest. Lots of Ettins, and Centaurs. Mission is to seek and kill all the Centaur army in the forest, along with the leader (moddified Slaughter). Secret: There's a hidden temple with money/weapons. Map 3: Desert. Lots of Afrits and Serpents. Kill them all, along with the "dragon" which has been killing good people (Wyvern). Secret:There is a house, where lives a powerful Mage, that, under the correct terms (money), will help the player with itens (or follow him and help with the fighting, if we can get that far with the AI). Map 4: Cemitery. Lots of Reivers. There's also a "hidden" Wyvern, that the player will only encounter if he looks for it, and the boss is a Heresiarch (really powerful). Secret: some tombs have power-ups/money. Map 5:Iced mountain. Lots of wendigos, and accidented terrain (quakes and pieaces of ground tha falls). Kill the White Serpent (a bigger (normal sprite 2 times bigger) serpent colored of white, that fires white/blue fireballs, that freeze people). It's giant egg (easy sprite to make) worth some serious bucks, which the player will need to buy things for the last map. Map 6: Temple. Full of Dark Bishops, Centaurs, and some Serpents. Maybe a couple of wyverns in open areas, and surely a bunch of Heresiarchs. Mission: kill the bad Mage who is trying to gather all the Korax's minions, in order to continue his dead god's wishes (destroy Cronos). End of Maps. List of new features (such as exp for completing missions). List of systems (such as inventory, talking system, etc) List of sprites/models/skins/textures/graphics needed. Detailed. List of texts/dialogues/info shown in the game List of programming changes needed. List of scripts needed, or help needed. Ideas and facts. THE END" [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] So, did you like it? I know it's a heavy load of work, but I think it will make up in terms of order, clarity and objectiviness to the project. Please do this! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] By the way, I don't need to say it's a simple example, and shouldn't be taken seriously (although some of the maps are interesting, and some topics too). [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] (Damn, that was a lot of work... I feel like I wrotte an entire game project myself [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] )
Fri, 07 Jun 2002 18:00:00

dj_jl

Ichor: Yeah. Heresiarch really can get back to his spawn state this way. Ok, I will implement Your suggestion in KMod and Vavoom. And, yeah, such a design document really could help a lots. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:53:00

mago

YEah, I know how is it to be loaded with jobs to do... Anyway, if I were you, I would be moving those sites today! (100$??? That's a lot of money!) [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I gained a new breath now with PSP. I'm having more fun with the sprites, so you can wait for my share, don't worry about it much. And anyway, I think I owe you one, so... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] What happened to Remi, man? Why have he disappeared? Is there anything wrong? Have you at least liked the map ideas? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] -Ichor: I don't think we will have the time to make HUBs. It would be fun though... Would you be willing to help? PLEASE say yes! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Oh yeah, by the way, I have finished today the walking series for the Centaur/Slaughter, so I'm like 40% through with it (or maybe 30%... There are lots of sprites for them). Then I'll work on the others already finished a little more, and then there would only last the Heresiarch (the others, stalkers, wendigos, afrits, reivers and wyverns are too weak and frail/powerful to be looked in detail).
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 02:40:00

RambOrc

Well my guess is Remi disappeared back in January becuz of a girl and came back in April becuz she threw him out and disappeared a couple of weeks later becuz she reconciled with him. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] (BTW JP thinks the same) As for your map ideas, some are similar to what I planned myself (I think I did post some of those ideas months ago, maybe you remembered them unconsciously). What people tend to forget is that maps won't as much be made as rather converted and patched, the first from really good Heretic maps made by Levelkiller, the 2nd from over a dozen Hexen maps Darklord217 collected for me (I made him put together all Hexen maps that have a readme that says explicitly that anyone can use the maps as base for further projects). As for hubs & co., there will be 3 hubs (hint hint 3 gates in the city, in case you not yet saw it the map's up on Koraxdev since last Winter or so). What I planned is that you can access all 3 hubs at the very beginning (or very early in the game at any rate), you'll just encounter closed doors/gates/passages/whatever rather soon and you'll have to solve this and that and find/receive several items before you can proceed in this or that direction (e.g. to receive a key that opens a cave near the Mines, you have to do a job for someone in the city, the job being to find a certain skull in the desert). As for the damaged skin sprites, I'm telling now for not the first time I want a series for the Death Wyvern as well... it could be something like a missing tail or one of the wings rended or whatever... the boss of one of the 3 hubs will be a Death Wyvern (or maybe several), and you'll fight it for a LONG time, using tons of weapons/spells/artifacts (it will have a LOT more HP than those miserable 6400 in KMOD [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ).
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 07:05:00

Ichor

Another idea is to take those six maps and make each one into a hub with that theme. Of course, that's only good if you really want to make the game that big.
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 07:41:00

RambOrc

I know a design document would be really important and I know I promised I'll write one, I still intend to. It's just that I've always something else to do. Currently, I want to finish the rework of the Korax site on the new server, do the DNS switch, then do the screens/manual/whatever I still have to for KMOD 2.2, then release it. After that (and also throughout all this), my highest priority will be (is) to move a dozen or so sites from one server to the other (this includes BTW Vavoom but at least that will be a lot easier to move), becuz I want to cancel the contract for one of the 2 webservers I have with the same company, and every additional month of delay I have them both costs me somewhat over $100. If everything goes fine, I might be able to start writing it in the 2nd half of the month (no promise). In the time being, what you could do w/o the guide is the tons of sprites Mago has on order, and on the coding side it seems Remi disappeared once again (I guess I know why), so the whole AI tweaking thing is not yet done, also the conversation module is about 1% finished (Camper once did something very little in the code and in the WadAuthor config file back in the time of the Alpha Project). Not to mention I'd love to see a runtime version with all the damaged skins. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway, Janis in case you not yet realized you got the position of Lead Programmer on the project so you've got pretty much a free hand in what you code. I'm only offering suggestions here, even in the design guide I'll only make a feature list and you'll tell me what's possible/feasible to code.
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 10:28:00

mago

I always thought that the Wyvern was too damaged already by decomposition, but the tail missing will do. Anyway I forgot to mention the bishops, who will get "hurted" too. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway, what is wrong about having a girlfriend AND working in the project in the free times? I do it myself. I don't understand... As for the maps, I don't think I read those ideas you gave. I just made them up while I was writting. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway, where is the topic? I would like to see it.
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 16:53:00

RambOrc

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Anyway, what is wrong about having a girlfriend AND working in the project in the free times?
For the majority of men, nothing. For some, it seems to be impossible. I once worked together with such a guy, some 4-5 years ago, who once he got his first girlfriend (he was somewhere between 15 and 17 at that time, don't know for sure), dropped everything else. Indeed it was him leaving me stranded with a never-developed company webpage in Summer 1999 that made me start with webdesign myself (the result you can see [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] ). I guess Remi is of the same breed. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Anyway, where is the topic?
Somewhen in the devforum... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 17:59:00

dj_jl

I think I have somewhere an utility for converting Doom/Heretic maps into Hexen maps. So, if you could upload those Heretic maps, I could give it a try.
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 18:12:00

RambOrc

I've uploaded one for starting (fortress.zip), the rest I'll have to check, becuz I've got 5 maps in the dir this one was in, but from 2 of them I know for sure they're NOT to be used for Korax, have to check the other 2... and there are others we can use, most probably on one of the dozen backup CDs somewhere... Anyway, this one is a cool one I want to use and for which Levelkiller also gave his permission. The real problem with this (and some other maps of him) is that he used some Hexen textures, which means any unflexible converter will create something useless. Camper wrote a conversion tool that'd need someone to write a complete list of all Heretic ==> Hexen textures, floors and entities, then it'd convert everything just fine (but not before).
Sat, 08 Jun 2002 21:22:00

RambOrc

I'm not sure about gore... what I know is that I don't want realistic gore. Hexen is not a realistic game and has more of a painted quality. Maps... [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] the most time is needed for the architecture, scripts (and monster/item placement) are a rather small part of the creation process. Where a lot of time can be saved when making a map is making it look ugly, like creating rooms with too many sharp corners, not aligning textures properly, etc. (BTW the non-aligning of textures is a common prob with commercial games too, it's one thing that old games like DOOM and Heretic are full of them but I just played Jedi Knight II a week or so ago and I was in a cave where not one of the textures was aligned and it looked VERY ugly). I've been aware of the map prob since before you joined the team, Mago. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I did what I could, i.e. making the agreement with Levelkiller that we can convert and use some of his maps (I'll have to check my e-mail archive to find out exactly which ones are OK, I think they are 3 or 4 full maps and a small but cool prefab). I'll also sort out the nearly 20 maps Darklord217 sent me (only about half of them do really have a readme that gives a complete and explicit permission to do anything with the maps we want). That means together maybe 10 maps, though some of them are VERY poor. Add the 3-4 maps I'm working on and we still have a need for another 10-20... I've been thinking about recycling a couple of maps from the original Hexen and Deathkings, though that wouldn't be much fun to play I guess (what I plan to use for either SE or TSP is the Heresiarch's Seminary in a reworked version, but I'd rather use it in TSP so that it can be enhanced with the new engine features). I was also thinking about recycling some of my Hell's Surface maps as well (once Heretic to Hexen map conversion goes OK), another poor solution in the end. The whole map question for SE is still an open point. p.s. Janis, what color depth can be used for overlay images (journal etc.)?
Sun, 09 Jun 2002 07:02:00

mago

Well, that's sad... We could use Remi's talents. But all I can do is wish good luck for him, IF it's really the case. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Another idea: I think SE should have more gore than hexen, with a little bit more blood and maybe some others animations for blood splits (something like the Duke Nuken's, which look cool). I think that Hexen has too little gore... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Sun, 09 Jun 2002 07:07:00

mago

By the way, RambOrc, couldn't you make like a bunch of maps with less scripts, making it up with a wider variety (at the cost of quality, but...). I mean, it's a big issue here. We COULD have lots of different, original and fantastic maps (like rescue some princess in a pit full of monsters, defend a entire city/castle from hordes, command an army against another monster's army, etc.), but they won't show up because there's only one mapper on the team. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] We should bet, in my opinion, on a long life and a long fun, rather than a short one. Otherwise, what good will do engine improvements and art creations, if they will be barely noticed in the few maps SE will have. They should be enjoyed and usufructed to the maximun... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] Please think about it. Isn't there ANYONE who would like to help we? [ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Sun, 09 Jun 2002 11:37:00

mago

And what about using parts (copy and paste) of another map's architecture, and then change characteristics like radius/size/height, changing the patches and flats (the THEME). It would appear it is actually a different place, and it would be even better with little details were added or removed (live torchs, candles, corpses, that kind of stuff...). I think it wouldn't take all the time to actually make the architecture, the only problem would be to put it all togheter, like a puzzle, in a coherent way. What do you think? PS: Is this what you called recycle?
Sun, 09 Jun 2002 17:44:00

RambOrc

With "architecture", I meant everything on a map except for monster/ammo/powerups placement, i.e. including texturing and scenery items. About 1/3-1/2 of the time needed for making a map is for texturing it (including the extra linedefs and vertexes built in in this phase), that means a no go for your suggestion. With "recycling", I meant using an existing, published map from somewhere else, changing only a couple of things in the look (or not even that) and the things needed for the different gameplay (monsters/ammo/powerups). Using Levelkiller's Heretic maps is already a recycling of a kind (though most Scattered Evil players maybe never saw the original maps). Anyway, I'm leaving the question of new maps open also for the reason becuz it'll become acute only in a couple of months, and by that time I might have more free time than currently (i.e. I could make some more maps myself).
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:32:00

mago

Hey people, what about new itens? I was thinking about some itens without any functions, just to be picked up, in order to complete the mission's goal (like the Serpent egg I mentioned, or a crown, a dagger, a fruit, a potion, a book, a corpse, etc), but they could have some special functions (like related scripts) and/or could be actually used in game, if it's not that hard to code. What do you think? I could do the sprites (it's easy, because they just have 1 frame).
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:52:00

RambOrc

Already for Korax Alpha I planned a couple of new items, like human and animal skulls (3D models imported from Hexen II and Heretic II), also books and other stuff for which we have 3D objects (SE will have MD2 models instead of sprites for most standalone objects). Of course you could make the sprites for all of them just the same, as some ppl switch off 3D models anyway.
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:43:00

Ichor

And the coding should also be easy to do. All these new things could just be new puzzle pieces.
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 14:53:00

mago

Well, I can make some skins too, so if you want any new model... I can also make some simple models (even some complex, if I put myself into it), but the problem would be to actually put it into the game. You said I could make the itens, but which ones? What itens will you need?
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:30:00

RambOrc

Start with a cube where all sides are of the same length, put the standard Hexen wood texture on each side, and send it over to me. Size should be about as big as a 32x32x32 sector would be.
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:48:00

dj_jl

Ooops! It seams I'm too late. DNS has been switched already and koraxdev doesn't seam to work. Could you make it back to work and reupload that map. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
p.s. Janis, what color depth can be used for overlay images (journal etc.)?
15-bit, but the source images must be 24 or 32 bit TGA files.
Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:43:00

RambOrc

I'll upload maps, models and other stuff that came from me soon. p.s. 1 bit for the alpha channel, right?
Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:58:00

dj_jl

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
p.s. 1 bit for the alpha channel, right?
Yep.
Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:36:00

mago

If you want some really good ideas, complete with the scripting they need, check out the files I just sent you in your e-mail box. It's something called RPGSpecs for Hexen, and if you don't have them already, you REALLY have to read it, all of it, carefully. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Now seriously, it seems really good. I can't tell for sure, but it's looking good. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] It talks about sleeping, travelling from one wad to another, have a really good section about NPCs and the talking system... So, go there and read it. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:09:00

mago

Hey, is anybody home? Where are you guys? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] By the way, Janis, if you want the files too, in case you want to take a look, just say so and I'll send them.
Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:31:00

RambOrc

LOL, the funny thing is, Camper found the HexenRPG page somewhen in early 2001 (which has been abandoned half a decade earlier). I took a look at it, found it cool, and added it to the featured links in the Hexen section at RavenGames, then forgot about it. Somewhen later on (I guess last Fall or Winter, can't say for sure) I got a mail from the author of HexenRPG, telling me he was in for a surprise when he found the link to his long-forgotten project on RavenGames. He sent me a long mail with a lot of explanations back then, but when I asked him whether he would want to work together with us on Korax' Heritage, he never replied. I guess once again my - nonexisting - charm was at work. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Anyway, I started reading the specs now, and find it cool, I'll be able to tell more once I read it all. As for where am I, I'm sitting at the office... for some people it might sound unbelievable, but I do have a real job where I earn my living, and it's got nothing to do with the internet. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:56:00

dj_jl

Yeah, send them also to me.
Tue, 18 Jun 2002 20:33:00

mago

I just sent them to you, Janis. I also sent them to Tzar Sectus, in case he still want to work with us. I was thinking about send an e-mail to the man, but now I doubt that that e-mail box is still being used, since it's from 96. Anyway, it is worth a try, even if it's just to thank for the work done. Everybody likes to know if their work is appreciated. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] In my opinion, it's really good and useful, this RPG Specs. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:43:00

RambOrc

Just went through the whole text, it's got some interesting ideas... it's crazy someone found a way over 6 years ago to implement such advanced features w/o access to the source code. That also means a lot of his work is useless nowadays, as it can be better and easier implemented through the source code (like making real NPC behaviours instead of his - very cool - tricks). As for Remi, I put him under the "former team members" section at this page, just like Camper who's as good as out of the project. If you don't get an answer from the HexenRPG guy, I can give you the e-mail addy he sent me a mail from last year, AFAIR that was the one that's up at the HexenRPG site.
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 00:47:00

mago

Yeah, those tricks are really clever. It's a shame he never answered your e-mail... Are you sure he got it in his mail box? It has happened to me some times before. Anyway, I'll try today or tomorrow, and see what happens. Camper don't want to work on the team even with Janis' help? That is weird. What about using some Heretic's graphics and sprites? I'm sure there are some good ones that we could use to make somewhat different maps for SE. I could even modify some, if you indicate them.
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:23:00

RambOrc

You can really count Camper as good as out. Besides the 2 days he worked on the 2.1 patch late Winter and the 5 minutes code snippet he sent to Remi last December (with the 2 new cheat codes), he didn't touch the Korax code since the release of KMOD 1.1 last Summer. I guess it's plain enough... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] As for using Heretic graphics, I already did that back for Korax Alpha nearly one and a half year ago, just take a look at the town screenshots. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] As for including Heretic monsters, back at the concept phase of Korax' Heritage in early/mid 2000, I was pondering for a long time whether to include a strong Heretic part in Korax' Heritage. I had an idea like a "Serpent Flyer", a Disciple of D'Sparil riding a Death Wyvern, commanding a troop of - long dead - D'Sparil's minions, a troop that got cut away from the main army and somehow got to this other plane. But after having seen some other projects that mixed up games so much you don't know what you're playing, I decided it's a cheapo solution, making a strictly Cronos-only game would be a much higher quality standards. That's why I opted against new character classes, Heretic monsters, etc. I created Hell's Surface without using a single new texture or sprite and I think if anything it's got a higher quality standards becuz of that, but not a lower. If I could go back and had more ideas for more maps, I'd even throw out the 3 DOOM conversions, becuz they lower the quality of the episode. I could've released them as a separate package, it wouldn't have been a prob. My prob back then was that I didn't have enough ideas for 9 maps, first I planned only one map, later 3, then 4-5, and that was it. Even from the 6, 2 are not really maps, making it obvious I blew up a half episode to look like a full one. Whatever... The first "mix it all" project that convinced me was Ichor's CG3 in 2001, that one feels right, at least I didn't get the feeling he mixed stuff becuz he didn't have any ideas how to make a good mod with one game's resources only. The idea for Korax Arena was indeed born out of the 2 facts that Korax' Heritage was to be without multiplayer and people wanted to play against each other, and also to have a project that can mix up different Serpent Rider games. While the 2 RPG projects are strictly Hexen-only, Arena will be a lot like Quake III Arena in one thing, like they used player and monster models from previous Quake and DOOM games, Korax Arena will feature besides the 3 Hexen character classes also the Heretic character, and most probably one or several character classes from Hexen II as well. It'll also include reworked maps from at least 3 games of the series (maybe even from Heretic II).
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:30:00

mago

One option for Hexen 2 players would be to actually make sprites from screenshots of their weapons/animations, just like most of the sprites based TCs are doing today. They make the 3d model for, lets say, the weapons, and then take screenshots of the those weapons seen in the right position, simulating the sprites' frames. Then they put it into a graphic program, put the colors according to the game's pallete and that's it. We could do it to the Hexen 2 players, so they could be choosen in KArena. As to the idea of mixing different games, I say it don't pleases me very much either, since it would have to be very well done to work. As for the Heretic's monsters, I was just thinking about putting the ones who fits the Hexen world. We have the Affrits, right? So we could implement the Gargoyles from Heretic, and they would look so alone. The same for the Heretic's Dark Bishop, which are related to the Hexen's ones. And graphics like trees, chicken, pots etc could be added too.
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:26:00

RambOrc

Ichor showed us with CG3 that importing Hexen II monsters (and thus player characters) into Hexen is no big prob. A couple of monsters from most probably all 4 Serpent Riders games will make it into Arena. As for the characters, most probably only the Assassin. Why? The other 3 have their Hexen counterparts, more or less. Though I'm still working on the base concept of Arena, I can already say that much that handling of weapons/spells will be nothing like in Hexen or in KMOD or in SE, it'll be a lot more similar to Q3A or UT.
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:25:00

mago

Do you mean that there will be 3d and 2d players/monsters togheter? It doesn't seems right... [ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:49:00

RambOrc

I guess I didn't define it clearly enough, what I meant is that Ichor already converted MDL monsters to sprite monsters, so it's possible. As for 3D models vs 2D sprites, I want to have both options in Arena. Since it's all on the client side, you could sit on a GeForce4 with a 2 GHz Athlon and use 3D models and frag your friend through the internet server who sits on a 200 MHz Pentium MMX and a PCI Riva TNT2 and would use sprites. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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