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Thu, 06 Jul 2006 14:28:22

RambOrc

Got this in a PM: Hello RambOrc! Please excuse me for private messaging you. If you are in need of a level designer, I am available. The Heretic / Hexen games are one of my favorites. I simply love them to death Wink. I have made maps for more modern games, mostly for Deus Ex using the Unreal engine. I have worked on maps using Hammer as well. I can show you some screenshots. I'm not an expert, but I'm extremely dedicated and I love what I do! If you don't reply for too long, I'll assume you missed this message and will post on the General forums instead. Thank you, take care! my reply: Hi mordy, Sure we could use another map designer. Smile Best would be if you'd post some screenshots or links in the general forum so the other team members can see it. his next PM: Hello! I'm in a hurry right now so I'm just going to post the links to some screenshots of a level I made for Deus Ex using UnrealEd. This is the first level I made with UnrealEd. You can share the links with the team in your special forum. I don't know if you've played Deus Ex, but it's a futuristic game, so of course, it doesn't look medieval like Hexen Wink Sorry about some of the screenshots, they came out dark in the game. So I took the rest in the editor. PS: What editor should I use for Hexen? <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/6ac3b077.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... c3b077.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/dc88568a.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... 88568a.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/c4ba4ba8.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... ba4ba8.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/60d35ba2.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... d35ba2.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/2560a6e7.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... 60a6e7.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/e263ce5a.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... 63ce5a.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/a24fe612.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... 4fe612.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/myrvane/screenshots/7329e76b.jpg">http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h302/ ... 29e76b.jpg</a><!-- m -->
Thu, 06 Jul 2006 15:04:45

Crimson Wizard

IMO these maps are rather nice. I do not think that a designer who LOVES what he is doing will have much difficulties changing styles from futuristic to medieval fantasy. (just remember myself creating gothic maps for Half-Life, heh) Maybe he will create something really new and fresh-looking. The only problem I see here is that he'll have to get used to creating 3d maps in 2d map editor.
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:16:37

Firebrand

This is very insteresting <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, these screens look very good, but I think as Crimson Wizard, I don't know how easy/difficult it might result for him to build 3d maps on 2d editors and what he's showing here looks very good, but it's for a very different engine from the one we are using, I guess we could talk with him, tell him what map editors are available to use and maybe test his skills on the Vavoom engine and see how it turns out, if we see some interesting stuff, we can then talk about adding him to the team IMO. I don't know what everyone else thinks.
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:12:13

mordy

Hello <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Learning a new editor is like a C++ programmer learning Java or some other language. The concept is similar, but the tools and methods change a bit. It's still programming, regardless. I've used several different editors for other game styles, not just FPS. It's just what I like to do. The screenshots you see above are of ONE only, and my first try with it too. If you've played Deus Ex, you'll understand why the level looks very modern. The game is futuristic. I was just showing an example of what I can do. Have a good day <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:14:50

RambOrc

Can't wait to see your first Vavoom map. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:24:55

mordy

Can I use Doom Builder for the project? I like it better so far. Unless of course it cannot do what is needed for the project. Speaking of projects, we ARE talking about Scattered Evil, right? <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> (I hope so, it's what I had in mind when I applied) <!-- s:!: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" /><!-- s:!: --> <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:13:27

RambOrc

Sure, Scattered Evil (one of the codenames for the RPG project) is still definitely planned and it'll need as many maps as possible (if we have to, we'll release it with 20, but if we can have 200 the game will be much better) so don't let yourself be distracted by the fact that all programming takes place for KA currently and since it's closest to release we're talking about it mostly. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> The RPG project is very much still planned, and while currently not much is done on it, there is a lot of artwork already created for it which you can use in maps. Feel free to browse the internal fileserver, while there is a lot of dead stuff lying around, it might be interesting for you to check out some of it (e.g. my old town map which won't be finished in that layout ever, due to being too big and complex for acceptable rendering). Which reminds me, creating a larger number of smaller maps is preferable, given that the more 3D a map is, the more taxing on the engine it is. Firebrand, could you create a wadfile with all the SE-specific artwork? I think the last version we have up on the fileserver is outdated, not containing everything in one wadfile.
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:29:37

Firebrand

Uh, I'll check out what we got shortly and compile it all in one WAD file, then post the link to it here for easy download for everyone, it might be done later today or tomorrow morning <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:36:52

mordy

Great! SE lives! Back to my main question though <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Doom Builder ok? Hello mappers? Yes? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> I'll look into the file server soon. That wad file with all the SE elements would be very helpful in making my maps.
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 05:49:07

Crimson Wizard

You can use literally any map editor able to create maps for Hexen which allows to edit config files (where things/line specials data is written). That's in theory. In practice I know two good ones: WadAuthor and Doom Builder. So, the answer on your question is: yes, ofcourse. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 07:08:30

mordy

Just making sure because I was asked to check with the mappers "whether Doom Builder allows for the specific tags Vavoom uses to create 3D floors, slopes and the like." <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:29:31

Firebrand

[quote="mordy":3nlw5rpc]Great! SE lives! Thanks to your help it will be great, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. [quote="mordy":3nlw5rpc]Back to my main question though <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Doom Builder ok? Hello mappers? Yes? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Yes, Doom Builder is fine, make sure you've got the latest version, also please make sure to download the DB config files for the Vavoom engine (which is the base engine we are using for SE), you can get them from [url:3nlw5rpc]http://vavoom-engine.com, check the downloads section there and you are set <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="mordy":3nlw5rpc]I'll look into the file server soon. That wad file with all the SE elements would be very helpful in making my maps. I'm working on it as fast as I can, I'll post here when I complete it and give you an URL of it. BTW, Welcome to the Korax team!! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> EDIT: Fixed the URL.
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 15:37:21

Firebrand

OK, I'm done doing the WAD file, please get it from here: [url:dnaks4vm]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/se-wad08072006.zip Then download the latest Vavoom engine version (1.20) from the same site(vavoom-engine.com), then you can load both wad files contained there when you build your map, so the game loads the textures placed in each file, if you have any questions or problems, feel free to post here, someone on the team will try to answer you <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 16:48:25

Crimson Wizard

Doesn't he need also to get older glvis version? I know that the one built in vavoom 1.20 sometimes has problems building vis data.
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 22:56:31

Firebrand

It's not a problem in GLvis, it's a problem with GLBsp, so there isn't need for anything else but what I put here.
Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:13:20

mordy

I downloaded glbsp to use with DB. I read it's a good choice for Vavoom. Is it going to cause problems?
Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:54:20

Firebrand

None at all, use it without worries <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:17:28

mordy

Hi! Just letting you guys know I'm still alive <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I realize that you guys are very caught up with your work on Korax Arena and that Scattered Evil has dropped down the priority list for now, so I'm not worried about that very soon. I've been (and still am) extremely busy with my school work and other projects during these last few weeks of the semester, but I will pick up on the mapping as soon as I can. It would be very helpful if someone can tell me something about SE, such as the story, locations, etc. Then I can pick part of the world to build. I have some interesting designs already, but I can't make anything for SE specifically without first understanding what SE is, isn't that right now? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:23:09

Alex-bomber_Man

Oh, yes, can somebody tell us more about SE ?
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:04:08

RambOrc

The story of SE basically picks up a couple of months after the end of Deathkings. The story of The Serpent Power picks up 20 years or so later. This means we have a trilogy: 1) The Chaos Sphere (TCS): the original Hexen and Deathkings story with maybe some smaller additions. It's basically "Hexen reloaded" with extras like more "cutscenes" of some kind to make it a more story-driven game, maps revamped with Vavoom features to look cooler (for those who haven't seen it yet, check out the Winnowing Hall remake by Firebrand, it's awesome), RPG additions like in KMOD (but differently implemented), inventory, NPCs, shopping possibilities, a hidden base you can return to, etc. 2) Scattered Evil (SE): a couple of months after Korax was defeated and his minions scattered. The story leads you into finding out about the secret cult that wants to resurrect Korax, and your task is to destroy the cult (planned end boss was a uber-Heresiarch that would not only be much stronger than a standard Heresiarch and have some extra spells, it could also manipulate the environment like Korax in the original Hexen and it could also teleport around etc). 3) The Serpent Power (TSP): Picks up like 20 years after SE, it's a "next generation" story. Of the 3 heroes of the original Hexen, only Daedalon still lives in his secluded tower, and as a young apprentice/whatever you go to him to find the Serpent Power. This story is a bit deeper and more "thinking", it has philosophy and religion stuff in it too - the serpent power is just a word, but everybody understands something different behind it. For the mage, it's a magical power, for the cleric, it's a spiritual power, for the fighter, it's a physical power. Thus, you can play the game 3 times and have a completely different story and quests. So basically we are making a trilogy, i.e. we release 3 RPGs, not just one. Publicly, there is still mostly talk about SE, but SE is actually the middle part of the trilogy, the first part to be released will be TCS. That said, work can proceed parallelly on all 3 parts, as a lot of it will be common. Also, a somewhat detailed storyline of both SE and TSP needs to be written before TCS can be finished, so we can add hints and cool references to later parts, that's always appreciated by gamers. Regarding maps, the Korax RPG trilogy is gameplay oriented and wants to accomodate both the RPGer and the FPS guy. Meaning there'll be a main storyline with relatively little in the way of puzzle solving or running around for quests. Instead, it'll allow you to wade into the thickest of the fighting and muscle way through the game. It'll of course need a lot more skill in FPS games as you will be a much lower level than you'd be if you'd have taken all those side quests and explored everything, but it'll be a shorter, directer and more brutal game. Or if you are into long RPGs, you can explore zillions of dungeons, go through a lot of sidequests etc and by the time you face bosses on the main storyline you'll be a much higher level, having more formidable attributes, spells and weapons, meaning you won't have to be that good with shooting without being shot at. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> This also means there are two kind of maps in the trilogy: the main storyline which is storybound and offers the best-looking scenery, and the optional maps which simply need to fit into the world of Hexen. This latter is the vast majority of the maps, meaning anything you make and is Hexen-like can be used in the game, nothing needs to be thrown out. It can also very well happen that such a casual map is so outstanding that it'll be migrated into the main storyline. So I'd say just map away. One thing that IMO should be extremely totally redone for TCS is the castle of Korax (Dark Crucible), it's lame and ugly and boring in the original Hexen. I think it should be replaced by an awesome architectural marvel that still has all the quirks of the original (i.e. Korax controls the environment, you never know where you step into your death). Also, while Firebrand has worked on the first hub (Seven Portals) and I still plan to work on the 2nd (Shadow Wood) hub, the other 3 hubs are still uncounted for, so every mapper is currently free to make new maps from scratch and/or alter original Hexen maps so they look better (just don't go extremely crazy, performance shouldn't drop to the cellar). Oh yes before I forget, one important thing is that many smaller maps are preferred to a few large ones. If you have an idea for a big dungeon or whatever, try to split it into parts. Since Hexen is not linear and you can go from map to map and then back, you can e.g. make a dungeon where you go through a door, are in another map but still the same dungeon (except for the loading screen you wouldn't even notice you're in another map), then go up some stairs and go through another door and arrive back in the previous map, just on a balcony 30 feet higher. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> If you have further questions, just post them here, I'll answer them all. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:23:02

mordy

Thanks a lot for clearing things up. I do have a few questions about some of the things you said that I'm a bit confused about. I'll save some for later, but for now: Is TCS is going to be a remake of Hexen? Since you mentioned the remake of Winnowing Hall and the first two hubs. I will look into remaking Korax's castle. (I made a Dracula castle for Half-life 1 before). Or whatever's available. Where can I see screenshots of the remake of Winnowing Hall? I love the music in that level. Good thing I still own the original Hexen CD that plays audio. haha <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:01:46

RambOrc

[quote="mordy":n2mj1x89]Thanks a lot for clearing things up. I do have a few questions about some of the things you said that I'm a bit confused about. I'll save some for later Just bring them on any time, the more you ask the more clear it'll be for everybody. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [quote="mordy":n2mj1x89]Is TCS is going to be a remake of Hexen? Since you mentioned the remake of Winnowing Hall and the first two hubs. I will look into remaking Korax's castle. (I made a Dracula castle for Half-life 1 before). Or whatever's available. Yes, map-wise TCS is mostly a remake of Hexen and DK. The vast majority of the maps are nothing but slightly modified maps from the original game. All maps of Hexen in the original order and then all maps of DK in the original order. Possibly a couple of maps before, after or in between. With the exception of Winnowing Hall and the two end maps (Dark Crucible and the Dark Citadel), the rest of the maps should have only slight cosmetic changes. It's not so much about remaking them as rather adding a touch here and there that the original designers would've most probably added if the engine could've done them. It's things like 3D water, a slope here and there, a bit of 3D floors, some light sources or even colored lights, but not too much of anything. It's about the small things, so that in the end gamers go in and still have the original Hexen feeling. The real innovation in maps starts with SE and goes on in TSP. The whole idea of a trilogy is that we start out slow and speed up, i.e. the first part of the trilogy doesn't have all the features, it has less spells and less items, it has less types of monsters, and the maps aren't much different from the original either. It's the starting out of a saga, taking you from the original Hexen to Korax' Heritage. In SE, there will be much more in the way of self-made maps, the architecture will be more 3D, there will be new monsters and items and spells, lots of new artwork etc. It'll also have more in-depth RPG features. This also has the advantage that once we start working on SE in earnest, TCS will be practically a "byproduct", released early during the SE project. It'll also draw more interest to the sequels. p.s. in case it wasn't clear, as far as Dark Crucible and Dark Citadel go, feel free to go nuts, the only requirement is that it fits perfectly into the Hexen world and the original Hexen maps. E.g. in Dark Crucible, I'd even leave the entryway over the chasm, but once you open those doors the inside of the place should be much different, it should look awesome. Same for the Dark Citadel, it should be like a huge courtyard of a castle - it should definitely not look like it's been mapped in 20 minutes (as it currently does). [quote="mordy":n2mj1x89]Where can I see screenshots of the remake of Winnowing Hall? Screenshots? Get the map itself at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/tcs_maps/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... /tcs_maps/</a><!-- m --> <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:50:46

mordy

I'm having problems running Vavoom. I really don't know much about it because I used to re-play the Doom engine games using ZDoom. I opened up Firebrand's MAP01 in my DoomBuilder and then "tested" the map so that it runs in ZDoom. I don't think that worked well because there were these red exclamation marks strewn about the map as I played it.
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:59:33

RambOrc

You cannot run any of our maps in anything but Vavoom, no point in even trying to. They all use Vavoom specific data.
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:45:27

mordy

Ya, the new version of Vavoom will hopefully fix the crash I keep getting (or so I read in their forums).
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:46:50

Crimson Wizard

O gods, I want to make that trilogy too. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:28:21

RambOrc

LOL as soon as KA is out, you can code all you want for TCS/SE. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:25:18

Crimson Wizard

[quote="mordy":cgrwnvcf]Ya, the new version of Vavoom will hopefully fix the crash I keep getting (or so I read in their forums). You probably need to manually build GWA file. Try reading this thread: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=764">http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=764</a><!-- m -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:28:06

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":21e6me56]LOL as soon as KA is out, you can code all you want for TCS/SE. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I also hope I would build maps for it. At least 'll give it a try. Cannot forgot the pleasure I felt when finally build something good using Vavoom 3d stuff. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.shadowweaver.narod.ru/unheir/shots2.htm">http://www.shadowweaver.narod.ru/unheir/shots2.htm</a><!-- m -->
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:58:04

RambOrc

In case it's still not clear, we can easily use hundreds of maps for the RPG trilogy, so nobody should hold back. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:05:57

mordy

Thanks Crimson Wizard, I manually built the gl files using an older version and it works now. How can I play Deathkings of the Dark Citadel in Vavoom? I installed the game from my original CD to C:\HexenDK, and then copied hexdd.wad to the Vavoom directory. I then entered "hexdd.wad" in the Files option in Vavoom Launcher. When the game runs, I see the Deathkings title screen, but when I start a New Game, it simply takes me to Winnowing Halls. What am I doing wrong?
Sun, 30 Jul 2006 12:49:44

Crimson Wizard

There's some problem with the map index. I believe it was already discussed on Vavoom forum: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=708">http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=708</a><!-- m -->
Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:44:22

Firebrand

Bring down the console and type:
map map41
It'll take you to the first Deathkings map and from there the game will work fine <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:08:11

mordy

Ah ya I figured.. I thought it was a more serious problem then just warping to a map. Should've tried first huh

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