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New binary as of 26/7

Fri, 27 Jul 2001 02:39:00

Tzar Sectus

I've been testing out a few things here. Be sure to comment on them about whether or not they're to be tweaked or if they should be thrown out of the code. Otherwise the listed features below the new binary has some bugfixes for the possession spell. "Spirits Within" -New spell for the Cleric, key "y". Just a quick idea I had one day, I'll just let this be a surprise, stand next to one or more corpses and check out what it does [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Known bugs: None. This spell has the most simple code and I'll eat my own feet if there's any bugs with it. "Summon Monster" -Another new spell for the Cleric, key "r". The Summon Monster spell. It'll summon a nice monster beside which will fight along you. If there's no monsters around for it to fight, it will follow the player instead. The monster summoned is random, most likely an Ettin, most unlikely a Reiver. The spell can also backfire and the monster won't be so friendly as you had expected. Known bugs: Sadly, a lot. There are the ones I know of: -The coordinates to where the monster is summoned are always +x and +y, I'm yet to program it to be summoned at a random angle or something. -A friendly Afrit may not always attack his enemies. -A friendly Bishop acts and looks bizarre. -I've had the spell crash on me sometimes, but only when I cast the spell like a madman (heh, which is something which isn't meant to be possible anyway) Okay, that's it. RambOrc, I hope you'll say thumbs up or thumbs down as soon as possible, so I know whether or not to throw the features out or bugfix them more. -Remi [ July 26, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 03:50:00

RambOrc

Why the hell should we want to throw them out? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Maybe the summoning should be relocated to the mage, it'd be more in context there. One thing not to forget, KMOD2 will be strongly cooperative oriented (ie. that besides a 100% working single player it should also feature a 100% working cooperative), so make sure the critters - when friendly - won't attack other players neither. p.s. keep up the good work!
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 06:06:00

RambOrc

Just tried the new version, it's awesome... I made some screens with the possession and summon spells, gonna post 'em tomorrow on the site. Q1: what's been changed with the sword (I see it's a new version of the wad)? Q2: what does this spirit spell do? the body disappared and spirits flew, but I didn't get any health points or anything, as far as I've seen.
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:39:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Maybe the summoning should be relocated to the mage, it'd be more in context there.
Aye aye, capt'n. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
One thing not to forget, KMOD2 will be strongly cooperative oriented (ie. that besides a 100% working single player it should also feature a 100% working cooperative), so make sure the critters - when friendly - won't attack other players neither.
Already done it [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Just tried the new version, it's awesome... I made some screens with the possession and summon spells, gonna post 'em tomorrow on the site.
Hey, what about passing some screenshots around to some Doom/Hexen news sites for being posted as Picture of the Day/Week? Would be nice for promoting our mod more. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Q1: what's been changed with the sword (I see it's a new version of the wad)?
*scratches head* There's nothing new in the wad. Just the same old sword. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Q2: what does this spirit spell do? the body disappared and spirits flew, but I didn't get any health points or anything, as far as I've seen.
The spirits acts just like the spirits from the Wraithverge, goes after enemies and rip them open. The spell is somewhat imbalanced though, it can be from utterly useless to isanely helpful. Since there's no limit how many corpses you can transform you can stand in a graveyard and kill every monster in sight. Perhaps we should make a system where each "revived" corpse drains 5 faith? -Remi
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:13:00

Tzar Sectus

Some questions here: About the possession spell, when possessing a creature and killing others should the player get experience for the kills? Similar question about the summon monster spell, should the player get experience for killing the friendly monster? By the way, is there any specific programming jobs I should do? Right now I'm just "firing at will", testing out any cool idea I get and cleaning up bugs and stuff. -Remi
Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:57:00

RambOrc

I think best is to drop the last 2 spells of the mage from KMOD1 (the speed spell and the farm animal spell), as they were anyways invented in a haste and are nothing special and not even powerful (and both come as items as well). They should be replaced with the 2 new spells Banishment and Summoning, which are a lot more fun and a lot more powerful, giving a new edge to the Mage. Hey I just got a new idea about the possession spell, what about making a 2nd, advanced version where the mage hides himself somewhere and sends a will-o-the-wisp forth that lives for, says, 10 or 15 seconds. You control this flying thingie and when in this time you can fly it into a monster, the monster will become possessed and the mage can sit safely far away while the possessed Centaur Leader makes pulp of the half dozen Chaos Serpents and the 10 Ettins in the courtyard... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Dunno how complicated it would be to code, your turn Remi... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] In case it can be done, we could make a Lesser Possession Spell and a Greater Possession Spell, the first being limited to only less cool monsters or so (I am not sure it's really a good idea all so feel free to criticize it) Screenshots to news sites: good idea. I know of ravengames.com, raven-games.com, doomworld.com and doomcenter.com, do you know other sites as well? as for the sword wad, the new one is somewhat larger. strange [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] as for the spirit spell, yes it should extract Faith for every corpse. But if we increase the amount of spells the Cleric has, we have to increase the amount of spells the Mage has to balance more porperly... the Cleric is too damn powerful already... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Possession spell Qs: when possessing a creature and killing monsters, yes get EXP when summoning monster and killing it, no EXP, that would be cheating. But if your summoned monster kills other monsters, you should get EXP. Also, if summoning backfires, you HAVE to kill the monster and you should get EXP. to summarize, you should get EXP for every foe killed, and never get EXP for friends killed. Specific programming jobs: The Fighter's Berserker mode. First, you will have to enable the SP for him and add it to his Stats Update Screen. It should start at a very low value, and increase very slowly (like getting 4-6 SP at start and 1-2 more per level). Also, keep in mind that Urns restore SP to full, not only health, I don't know whether it has to be something coded extra so that it works for the fighter. Also, quartz flasks should add a small amount of SP back to the fighter as well, like it does for the Mage and the Cleric. The Berserker mode itself should temporarily increase his strength, armor and speed (maybe doubling them all?). I think the duration should be dependent on the amount of SP, like duration = SP * 2 seconds (at any given time, all the SP available would be taken when the Berserker spell is activated). Also, the spell shouldn't work below a certain amount of SP (like 10, so that he can't use it before getting to level 4-5 or so). Also, you could define a new object in the source code, the treasure. We'll most probably use the gold bar 3D model I already have (gotta send to you tonight when I get home). When killing certain types of monsters (I'd say Ettins and Centaurs/Slaughtaurs plus the 3 Order Bosses and the Heresiarch, these are the only ones wearing clothes :P), there should be a small random chance that a treasure is dropped. On second thought, we should use 2 kinds of treasure, the silver and the gold bar (I've both models). The lesser monsters (E, C, S) would drop silver and the bosses gold (which is either 5 or 10 times more valuable). If after doing all this you're still looking for more coding work, you could start thinking about how to create the shops. It shouldn't be a complicated thing, just a room where on tables there are objects you can buy for a certain price, you go to the table, hit the use key and if you've got enough money you get the thing and money is extracted from you. note that the money system is already built into the engine to a certain extent, dunno the exact specifications. there is also a cheat to make money, type following into the console: octomont money XXXX
Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:49:00

RambOrc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Er... Banishment is Wrath of the Gods, right?
Nope. Banishment teleports the monster to outside the map, then kills him (but you don't see it any more) so that you get the EXP. Wrath of the Gods simply reduces target's health by 5000 HP... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Actually, the real reason is the stupid WinTex program (which should have been re-written five years ago). 've used the wad file as my private "what-thingy-should-I-test-out-now?"-file. And when I delete lumps from the wad the damned WinTex don't properly delete it.
There's an option called "Cleanup wad" in the File menu [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The Cleric's too darn powerful? *scratches head* Well, if one's too powerful one solution would be to make the other classes even more powerful to even it out
It's not that easy... we just put in all those ideas we had to make 1.0 and only when testing did I realize that the Fighter has been much tougher and the Cleric much easier than before. With the Cleric, you can always heal up yourself any time, thus you can save all your good stuff for the bosses. That's why I wanted the healing spell be made much less appealing, with using a lot of SP to heal you up, and making it kind of a meditation so you can't do it all the time. As for the Fighter, with the new Berserk mode he should be somewhat less difficult to master. Concerning the EXP gotten through friendly monsters, if you summon monsters, they kill everything in sight and you don't get EXP, you won't advance up the levels and ppl won't use the summoning spell. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And anyway, I don't like the idea that I have to expand the size of every object because only the friendly monsters gives xp to their master. What about seeing if we can use the same code for something else too before actually making it? I really don't like expanding a lot just for one little thing.
Sorry, I don't get this one. What parts of the code do you have to expand for this? Also, watch out because there are already some things in the Korax engine done by Camper that aren't the way they were in Hexen... example is that when a monster kills another, it gets the EXP. It's been done for the case that you charge into a room with half a dozen Ettins and a Chaos Serpent and the Serpent kills 3 Ettins, and then you kill the Serpent, you get all the EXP for all 4 monsters. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
when you emerge back from your berserk and you have less than 50 health, you die
I don't like this... it'd make me not want to use this mode at all, I mean if it backfires (like I have 40 health with berserk and then I suddenly come out of it) and I suddenly die, it's not fun and not a "feature" but a bug for me as gamer and I'd hate the spell and most probably not use it again. Also, when you're level 2 and activate berserker, you get up to 2-3x more powerful than in normal state, whereas when activating berserker mode in the fight against Korax (I was level 15 at that time), you don't even notice the difference. 240 or 290 health, what's the difference? even 50 or 70 strenght isn't that much of a difference than 10 or 30 at the beginning. I suggest simply doubling all current values. This way, when in berserker mode you run double as fast as normally, your blows deliver double the amount of damage than normally and you have twice as health as normally. And when you snap out of it, you just get back to normal. Oh, and just call the fighter's SP "frenzy" [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] As for the silver and gold bars, making a screenshot of the items in a 3D editor and creating a 2D sprite should take maybe 10-20 minutes for the 2 objects. BTW you want to say you disabled the 3D models in KMOD? If people do that, I'll have to think twice when creating the shop level for KMOD2. I planned to use 3D tables upon which the items are stacked, but if ppl turn off the 3D models, a sprite table will look incredibly stupid. Maybe I should rather make the tables from sectors. Oh yes, the shopping code, don't write it! It's already in the engine, you just didn't find it. Camper coded it to a point where it's not only working but also you can edit the shop linedefs and stuff from Wadauthor directly. I guess best is to wait until he comes back on August 5 and ask him what exactly has to be added (if anything). For the silver and gold bars, I don't know how complicated it is to find the places in the code where money is handled, becuz a money system is already built in. I can't recall whether it's a 2 or 3 step system (with always 10 as multiplier), but if you can find this, you'll have it easier with the gold and silver bars. Picking up a gold bar should add 1 gold (the highest currency type) to your money and picking up a silver bar should add 1 silver (the 2nd highest currency type) to your money. p.s. I just read all new entries in your r-log.txt and it's a cool thing with the new weapon table... I was anyway wondering becuz of the mage, it's been kinda stupid that he has to use 4 weapon slots where in reality 2 of them are not weapons but spells and OTOH he will have tons of other spells as well (I'm speaking about Korax' Heritage here, not KMOD).
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:59:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
There's an option called "Cleanup wad" in the File menu
I noticed that one... and noticed it's very handy [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] , it didn't fix anything at all. The wad still stayed at the same size (and also still commented that it had lots of "dead space") <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Concerning the EXP gotten through friendly monsters, if you summon monsters, they kill everything in sight and you don't get EXP, you won't advance up the levels and ppl won't use the summoning spell.
You forget the two primary reasons why players will still use it. It's fun and it gets rids of the monsters. I really don't think players are busy about thinking about their xp all the time. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Sorry, I don't get this one. What parts of the code do you have to expand for this? Also, watch out because there are already some things in the Korax engine done by Camper that aren't the way they were in Hexen... example is that when a monster kills another, it gets the EXP. It's been done for the case that you charge into a room with half a dozen Ettins and a Chaos Serpent and the Serpent kills 3 Ettins, and then you kill the Serpent, you get all the EXP for all 4 monsters.
Okay, the normal way the objects who needs masters (Minotaur, player dummies) is done is they use a special variable, one which (well, it's actually two) is for all objects. But they're used to completely different things from object to object. If the player's going to get xp from their friendly monster killings I have to have a such pointer. But since every monster can be friendly (and some already use their special variables for something else) I have to add a completely new variable to the object set. And I don't like the idea that only a single spell requires that right now. It's really code ineffective. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I don't like this... it'd make me not want to use this mode at all, I mean if it backfires (like I have 40 health with berserk and then I suddenly come out of it) and I suddenly die, it's not fun and not a "feature" but a bug for me as gamer and I'd hate the spell and most probably not use it again.
Well, I disagree. I see it as a balanced disadvantage to an otherwise perfect "spell", and it's logical too. Where else should his health go? If it goes below 0 when he returns to normal should it just be set to 1 instead? Or should he *not* lose health after becoming normal? I played a wee bit with the Fighter testing the feature out, I used it a lot, and not a single time did I actually die out that too-low-health-thingy. But hey, tell me how to do and I'll alter it, I just wanted to state my opinion. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I suggest simply doubling all current values. This way, when in berserker mode you run double as fast as normally, your blows deliver double the amount of damage than normally and you have twice as health as normally. And when you snap out of it, you just get back to normal.
This was the way I was making it until I saw a possible trapdoor. The way I'm doing it now is that the player increases his values by 20 and they're decreased again with the same value. Now then if I make it so that it doubles the values, I also have to make it half when he returns to normal. That is a bad thing, since what if the values change drastically while berserking? For instance, while berserking the player increases level and when he returns to normal he gets the half of his *new* value. The same goes with health only it's a bigger problem with that, since health change all the time. Okay, the most direct solution to this would be adding three new values to the player object in the code where the temp increased values are stored, but I really don't want to do that (for the same reason above). So what about this idea instead. For each level the Fighter's in he gets plus 10*level? I'd get the same problem but in this case I have much much better solution. By the way, while I was testing I noticed a thing with the speed value. It seems that if it gets over about 30 the player *never* gets faster. Seems like the speed is capped in the code. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
BTW you want to say you disabled the 3D models in KMOD? If people do that, I'll have to think twice when creating the shop level for KMOD2. I planned to use 3D tables upon which the items are stacked, but if ppl turn off the 3D models, a sprite table will look incredibly stupid. Maybe I should rather make the tables from sectors.
Well... I would think making 3D tables for it would be overkill when you can do the same with sectors (only for the price of ugliness). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Oh yes, the shopping code, don't write it! It's already in the engine, you just didn't find it. Camper coded it to a point where it's not only working but also you can edit the shop linedefs and stuff from Wadauthor directly. I guess best is to wait until he comes back on August 5 and ask him what exactly has to be added (if anything).
It's in the code? Hmmm... gotta check it out. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
For the silver and gold bars, I don't know how complicated it is to find the places in the code where money is handled, becuz a money system is already built in. I can't recall whether it's a 2 or 3 step system (with always 10 as multiplier), but if you can find this, you'll have it easier with the gold and silver bars. Picking up a gold bar should add 1 gold (the highest currency type) to your money and picking up a silver bar should add 1 silver (the 2nd highest currency type) to your money.
Money, eh? Oh, I've seen that code. It shouldn't be any hard to make monsters spit out money at death. -Remi
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:25:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I think best is to drop the last 2 spells of the mage from KMOD1 (the speed spell and the farm animal spell), as they were anyways invented in a haste and are nothing special and not even powerful (and both come as items as well). They should be replaced with the 2 new spells Banishment and Summoning, which are a lot more fun and a lot more powerful, giving a new edge to the Mage.
Er... Banishment is Wrath of the Gods, right? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Hey I just got a new idea about the possession spell, what about making a 2nd, advanced version where the mage hides himself somewhere and sends a will-o-the-wisp forth that lives for, says, 10 or 15 seconds. You control this flying thingie and when in this time you can fly it into a monster, the monster will become possessed and the mage can sit safely far away while the possessed Centaur Leader makes pulp of the half dozen Chaos Serpents and the 10 Ettins in the courtyard... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Dunno how complicated it would be to code, your turn Remi... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It shouldn't be any hard to program. Actually the hardest bit would be the actual will-o-the-wisp touching monster code. But then again, for that it would probably be just as simple as making the space key be "touch" key. But instead of having it be two different spells why not make it some sort of upgrade? That the Mage gets that version of the spell at a higher level, or we add a new player attribute called magic or something which value is the power of the spells. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Screenshots to news sites: good idea. I know of ravengames.com, raven-games.com, doomworld.com and doomcenter.com, do you know other sites as well?
Nopienope nope. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
as for the sword wad, the new one is somewhat larger. strange [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Ooooh, it possess magical abilities! It grows larger and larger, in the end it'll run for presidency and try to take over the world! Actually, the real reason is the stupid WinTex program (which should have been re-written five years ago). I've used the wad file as my private "what-thingy-should-I-test-out-now?"-file. And when I delete lumps from the wad the damned WinTex don't properly delete it. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
as for the spirit spell, yes it should extract Faith for every corpse. But if we increase the amount of spells the Cleric has, we have to increase the amount of spells the Mage has to balance more porperly... the Cleric is too damn powerful already... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Done that. It now requires ten Faith and uses 5 faith for casting the spell and additionally 5 more for each transformed corpse. The Cleric's too darn powerful? *scratches head* Well, if one's too powerful one solution would be to make the other classes even more powerful to even it out [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Possession spell Qs: when possessing a creature and killing monsters, yes get EXP when summoning monster and killing it, no EXP, that would be cheating. But if your summoned monster kills other monsters, you should get EXP. Also, if summoning backfires, you HAVE to kill the monster and you should get EXP. to summarize, you should get EXP for every foe killed, and never get EXP for friends killed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> EEK! The player gets experience for the monsters his friendly monsters kill? Hmmm... how would we have a realistic explanation for that? "Oh yes, so my friendly Ettin first slams his mace into his opponent's face while making a repulsive sound reminding me of a pig... yes, indeed, this I have to write down, a perfect tactic for killing a foe." And anyway, I don't like the idea that I have to expand the size of every object because only the friendly monsters gives xp to their master. What about seeing if we can use the same code for something else too before actually making it? I really don't like expanding a lot just for one little thing. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Specific programming jobs: The Fighter's Berserker mode. First, you will have to enable the SP for him and add it to his Stats Update Screen. It should start at a very low value, and increase very slowly (like getting 4-6 SP at start and 1-2 more per level). Also, keep in mind that Urns restore SP to full, not only health, I don't know whether it has to be something coded extra so that it works for the fighter. Also, quartz flasks should add a small amount of SP back to the fighter as well, like it does for the Mage and the Cleric. The Berserker mode itself should temporarily increase his strength, armor and speed (maybe doubling them all?). I think the duration should be dependent on the amount of SP, like duration = SP * 2 seconds (at any given time, all the SP available would be taken when the Berserker spell is activated). Also, the spell shouldn't work below a certain amount of SP (like 10, so that he can't use it before getting to level 4-5 or so).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Done that. Here's the specifics how I made it: The "spell" requires 6 "Faith" (which the Fighter gets in level two), and casting the spell takes 4 faith while the rest is used for making it longer. In other words, a player who uses it over and over again when he got exactly enough faith is a stupid man, I believe patience is to be rewarded. Every additional faith makes it last a "while" longer (I haven't bothered to check out how long the game's time measurements is compared to real life, if I could ask Camper he could probably tell me how many tics there's in a second). Berserker mode adds 20 strength and 20 speed. It also adds 50 health. I was to make it increase armor instead but since I would have to rewrite a good deal of code for it (since the original armor code works in a very odd way), I just added it for health instead. Personally I think adding to health is a much better idea, because it has the very bad side of it that when you emerge back from your berserk and you have less than 50 health, you die. Making the player die in amusing and interesting ways are always fun [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I've added my latest binary to the dev ftp, so you can check out the "spell" there. Beware, I've not playtested it much, there may be many bugs, and the feature may be completely imbalanced. And yeah, one final question, I added faith for the Fighter, but what name should it go by? I don't see the Fighter any much as any religious type [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Also, you could define a new object in the source code, the treasure. We'll most probably use the gold bar 3D model I already have (gotta send to you tonight when I get home). When killing certain types of monsters (I'd say Ettins and Centaurs/Slaughtaurs plus the 3 Order Bosses and the Heresiarch, these are the only ones wearing clothes :P), there should be a small random chance that a treasure is dropped. On second thought, we should use 2 kinds of treasure, the silver and the gold bar (I've both models). The lesser monsters (E, C, S) would drop silver and the bosses gold (which is either 5 or 10 times more valuable).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll get on it as soon as I can. And when you say you have a 3d model for it... will there *only* be a 3d model for it and no neat 2d sprite? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If after doing all this you're still looking for more coding work, you could start thinking about how to create the shops. It shouldn't be a complicated thing, just a room where on tables there are objects you can buy for a certain price, you go to the table, hit the use key and if you've got enough money you get the thing and money is extracted from you.
So, the idea is having a neat shop, with a goofy shopkeeper standing there while you have go up to each item, and when you have it in sight there may come up various information (short description plus cost) and if you press space you buy it? Hmmmm... not sure how I should make that. I could make a new sort of tag for floors which define shops, every item there is buyable (except the shopkeeper of course [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] ), and while in that sector the player code would constantly check if there's an item in front him, and if it is information comes up on the screen. And the health value of the item could represent the price *scratches head* Well, one thing's for sure, I'm not programming this right away, I'm not sure if my current idea of programming it is any effective way. By the way, some other things. In my latest binary, there's one new major difference. The weapon code is almost completely replaced with a new one, which is more flexible and easier to work with. So if you come up with some bugs regarding that new code (which should be anything from you getting the wrong weapon at start of level or something similar) notify me. The reason why I made the code was that I didn't like the way I had to make the possessioner's weaponry, this new way it all makes a lot more sense (although gameplay-wise there should be no difference). And yeah, one very last thing. In the latest binary there's a new tiny feature you can check out. Go to the console and write "new_mwand 1" for a slightly different Mage wand with a cool graphical effect (it's just slightly different, but I think it looks neat). -Remi
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:07:00

kendrome

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Well... I would think making 3D tables for it would be overkill when you can do the same with sectors (only for the price of ugliness).
3D tables are really easy to make, and the items would be pretty easy too, once I get everything set back up I'll be able to get models coming out. Sorry about taking a little while to get everything set up, but it'll be worth it. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I suggest simply doubling all current values. This way, when in berserker mode you run double as fast as normally, your blows deliver double the amount of damage than normally and you have twice as health as normally. And when you snap out of it, you just get back to normal.
I like this idea better. Makes a lot more sense to me, and either you can have the values return back to the original values, or just half of the current, which would be within limits. I should take a look at the code, because I've done a lot of programming, and adding unto the creature objects an extra variable, shouldn't be that much of a task.
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:01:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I like this idea better. Makes a lot more sense to me, and either you can have the values return back to the original values, or just half of the current, which would be within limits. I should take a look at the code, because I've done a lot of programming, and adding unto the creature objects an extra variable, shouldn't be that much of a task.
I never said it was any hard solution, just an inefficient solution. With every feature I make I try to support myself by making smart code instead of making a good deal of global variables (which is in most cases a very short direct and easy solution to a problem). So in this case I thought it would be best with the 10*level idea instead, it's not that very different from doubling the stats, and we won't be forced to add three new global variables to the player object (which would only be used for one thing in the entire code). -Remi
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:06:00

Tzar Sectus

*slams head against wall* My bad. I just thought about this some more, and the more I think about it adding global variables isn't that bad. It can just quickly get messy. I guess I'm just too used to my old previous project I had where I was working with a team with *very* strict programming rules (one being to avoid using global variables at all cost). Anyway, about that player getting experience from monsters. I will be making that extra variable after all for the objects, I just thought about the extra multiplayer modes we'll be adding later, and some of those modes *will* require such a variable (even though every object in the entire game will have it too... yuerch). So friendly monsters now give the player xp. I'm still reluctant to make that double the stats thingy, are you sure we should do it this way? Three variables for the player object only used for one thing in the entire code *shudders*. -Remi
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:30:00

RambOrc

Well I might be an untypical player but I'm caring about my EXP, I always await the new level with yearning and often kill monsters in hidden places only to get more EXP... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] As for extra variables, I'd say start with half a dozen, as we'll need them for the TC itself... imagine a monster sunning on the beach... you sneak upon it, it sees you, it's either aggressive at once or just showing interest in you or neither, it might be hungry enough to attack you to eat your arms, it might be greedy for your gold but still afraid to attack you, after changing a couple of blows with you it might want to turn and flee or it might become so frenzied it just attacks and doesn't care about anything else, etc. etc. ...did you really think I want an RPG with monsters as stupid as those in Hexen? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] (not to speak about NPCs, shopkeepers and townspeople) As for the berserker mode (sorry quote feature doesn't work on Mac), I guess you play in a different way than I. I learned a lot about DOOM, 3D games and life in general when with 6 HP and a shotgun I encountered a Baron of Hell in a short corridor and blew him to hell w/o myself taking as much as a scratch. Since that time (it was about '97 or so), I don't really care that much about health any more as long as I've got some space to move around and a shotgun/crossbow/axe with some ammo... for me, it can happen pretty fast that I run around with the Fighter with 15 HP becuz I don't care to hit a key to activate some quartz flasks. Now let's assume I activate the berserker mode and have 65 HP. I won't even think of doing something about my health when it gets down to 40 or 30 becuz it's still a lot more than I usually need... but then I snap back from berserker mode w/o a warning and die... see my point? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] As for the speed value, yes I didn't think about it before, but it's truly fixed at a max value... it's not 30 but 25, which is 250% of the original speed... that's the max. turbo supported by the DOOM engine and anyway this speed already pauses problems rather often, e.g. linedefs are crossed but the engine doesn't register it (start up DOOM with 250% turbo, run around with SHIFT down and see how often you can step into a teleport and not be teleported away). I think the speed upgrades should be handled in a different way... anyway, I wanted a system where with speed increasing also your weapon delay goes down, but Camper told me it'd be too complicated. If you find it and can implement this feature, it'd be great. That would make sense for speeds of up to 40 and 50, the fighter would keep to a max speed of running but would chop around with the axe so fust it'd be a blur... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:02:00

RambOrc

Yes, I'm still for making the doubling stats thing... and when you snap out of it, just get your strength and speed and agility you actually have in the stats update screen before going into berserk mode, and get the half of the health you had when snapping out of the reverie... err... the berserking. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] As for xtra variables and overhead, don't worry... just check out what Camper coded... in Korax Mod, there are variables like hunger, thirst and weariness which will be used first in the TC... OTOH it's been great they are in, he used hunger for a new variable in the 1.1 bugfix and only becuz of these xtra variables are 1.1 savegames compatible to 1.0 ones. Also, such small things won't noticeably impact the game speed, especially when 3 dozen 3D objects bring down rendering speed by a noticeable amount and a 100 3D objects (like in the town) bring it down to 1/2-1/4 of the original...
Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:58:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As for extra variables, I'd say start with half a dozen, as we'll need them for the TC itself... imagine a monster sunning on the beach... you sneak upon it, it sees you, it's either aggressive at once or just showing interest in you or neither, it might be hungry enough to attack you to eat your arms, it might be greedy for your gold but still afraid to attack you, after changing a couple of blows with you it might want to turn and flee or it might become so frenzied it just attacks and doesn't care about anything else, etc. etc. ...did you really think I want an RPG with monsters as stupid as those in Hexen? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] (not to speak about NPCs, shopkeepers and townspeople)
Oooooh, does this mean I'll get to program a more advanced AI? I've always wanted that after taking one quick glance at the original Doom AI... it simply sucks. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As for the berserker mode (sorry quote feature doesn't work on Mac), I guess you play in a different way than I. I learned a lot about DOOM, 3D games and life in general when with 6 HP and a shotgun I encountered a Baron of Hell in a short corridor and blew him to hell w/o myself taking as much as a scratch. Since that time (it was about '97 or so), I don't really care that much about health any more as long as I've got some space to move around and a shotgun/crossbow/axe with some ammo... for me, it can happen pretty fast that I run around with the Fighter with 15 HP becuz I don't care to hit a key to activate some quartz flasks. Now let's assume I activate the berserker mode and have 65 HP. I won't even think of doing something about my health when it gets down to 40 or 30 becuz it's still a lot more than I usually need... but then I snap back from berserker mode w/o a warning and die... see my point? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Heh, shall I perhaps tell you a bit about my playing style? I've been playing Doom for a long long time, ever since I tried coop in it I've never stopped. (Although lately I've not played it much since my friends really begin to tire of Doom). After playing all these years I would call myself pretty hardcore. And I'm very used to the 10-health only with shotgun syndrome. I would actually call the shotgun guys as one of the worst enemies in Doom since their attacks are instant, anyone with a projectile is piece of cake to take out. As I've played with the berserker mode things have gone pretty fine. Perhaps one of the reasons is that I'm very observant and I try to keep track over every little thing. But hey, why don't we get a third party to come with an opinion before settling this down? Kendrooooooome!!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As for the speed value, yes I didn't think about it before, but it's truly fixed at a max value... it's not 30 but 25, which is 250% of the original speed... that's the max. turbo supported by the DOOM engine and anyway this speed already pauses problems rather often, e.g. linedefs are crossed but the engine doesn't register it (start up DOOM with 250% turbo, run around with SHIFT down and see how often you can step into a teleport and not be teleported away). I think the speed upgrades should be handled in a different way... anyway, I wanted a system where with speed increasing also your weapon delay goes down, but Camper told me it'd be too complicated. If you find it and can implement this feature, it'd be great. That would make sense for speeds of up to 40 and 50, the fighter would keep to a max speed of running but would chop around with the axe so fust it'd be a blur... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Camper's got a point there. It would be hard to let the game increase the speed of attacks. I can't think of any good way to do it myself. Speaking of speed, there's one thing which has always bugged me about it. When getting to higher levels, the difference between running and walking is completely gone, that's very frustrating for me since I never play with autorun on, although I have a tendency to always have a finger on the shift key there's some times I like to walk. Of course, I see no good way to solve this either... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Yes, I'm still for making the doubling stats thing... and when you snap out of it, just get your strength and speed and agility you actually have in the stats update screen before going into berserk mode, and get the half of the health you had when snapping out of the reverie... err... the berserking.
Sir, yes, sir! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As for xtra variables and overhead, don't worry... just check out what Camper coded... in Korax Mod, there are variables like hunger, thirst and weariness which will be used first in the TC... OTOH it's been great they are in, he used hunger for a new variable in the 1.1 bugfix and only becuz of these xtra variables are 1.1 savegames compatible to 1.0 ones.
You misunderstand a part of my point, I've nothing against putting in extra variables, it just depends on how they're used. For instance, making three global variables for the player object duplicated some times, and those 3 variables used for only one thing in the entire code and for only the fighter. That is what I don't like. If you look on the player object in the code and see what variables which is there, it is mostly variables which are used constantly in the code and just can't be taken out without turning the game into a pong clone. And yeah, I've seen what Camper's put it, but he's only put in stuff I'd also put it. Only permament stuff, and no variables which are used temporarily for one spell. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Also, such small things won't noticeably impact the game speed, especially when 3 dozen 3D objects bring down rendering speed by a noticeable amount and a 100 3D objects (like in the town) bring it down to 1/2-1/4 of the original...
*readies shotgun* Grrrrrrrrr... Seriously, I don't agree with your opinion. That now as things already go so slow it doesn't matter if we make the code even more slow. I find it annoying at all that the mod already has so huge demands when all the original Hexen required was a mere 486. Well, yeah I know this is mostly because of the JHexen engine, but still... *scratches head* I wonder what Camper's opinion would be about all this. -Remi [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:06:00

Tzar Sectus

Does this forum support threads in multiple pages? If not we should perhaps continue this discussion in another thread, I'm already getting some slowdown in loading the page. -Remi
Wed, 01 Aug 2001 00:08:00

Tzar Sectus

Whoops! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Seems like I got that answered. -Remi
Wed, 01 Aug 2001 05:23:00

RambOrc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Oooooh, does this mean I'll get to program a more advanced AI? I've always wanted that after taking one quick glance at the original Doom AI... it simply sucks.
Hey if you'd do that you'd make me real glad! I always wanted better AI but up to now I couldn't find anyone who could do it... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I would actually call the shotgun guys as one of the worst enemies in Doom since their attacks are instant, anyone with a projectile is piece of cake to take out.
Agreed, though don't forget the standard soldiers, their pistols are instant hit as well. That's BTW one of the oldest and most important reasons why the whole Korax project started on Hexen of all possible games... Hexen is the only game I ever played where given the right circumstances (like enough place for maneuvering and enough ammo), you can beat ANYTHING, even an army of hundreds of monsters at once, if you are good enough (indeed, that's where the idea for making an army of hundreds of monsters came from). Oh, did I ever tell you about the army of the hundreds of monsters or does only Camper (and I think Kendrome) know about it? It needs a real boost in terms of AI, it'd need the ability for monsters to <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>march and fight in formations (when 10 Ettins attack you in Hexen, they'll hinder each other as each wants to get to you on the most direct route. with the new AI, they should either flank you from both sides or make a half-circle and advance thus, or something even more complicated, like walking in mainpuli to allow for shooting monsters in the back rows)<LI>never target the player with a projectile when there's another monster in the way<LI>I also want to have some officers who have an even more advanced AI and actually truly command around the other monsters and when you take those out the given unit will fight less efficiently with less advanced tactics</UL> How about that? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] As for the speed system, I guess it will have to be rethought, like making the max for the mage 7, the Cleric 13, and the Fighter 20 or so. This way, when using SHIFT you still get faster with the fighter, and also, with the Mage, to ever reach the original Hexen speed, you'll have to use either the Boots of Speed or the Speed Spell. I'm not sure whether it's a sound idea, it's just a thought to discuss. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If you look on the player object in the code and see what variables which is there
I'm not doing any such thing, just as I'm not fumbling around with the models Kendrome makes or the textures Sylon paints... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] being project leader (which is a lot of work rather than a "boss" position), webmaster/webdesigner and game concept designer would be already more than enough tasks, and additionally I still hold the position level designer becuz no one else is doing this right now... at least I won't have to do 2D art in the future, thanx to Sylon. To add another point which doesn't sound as good but is true nevertheless, I'm not much in programming. I wrote tons of Basic programs for the Commodore C=16 and +4 when I was 13 (which was a LONG way ago), among them a full text adventure game (which back in '91-'92 was still what you got as commercial games as well), but I never got around learning a modern, structurized language. I started with Pascal for DOS back around '94 or so but stopped after a short time. Currently I'm working with HTML and JavaScript on a daily basis and it includes modifications in the source code manually all the time as WYSIWYG editors are often just too stupid, but it's rather a passive knowledge. The only thing that can be said in my favor is that I've still a lot more idea about how programs work than Camper assumes (and tells all the time)... :-)))))) <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I find it annoying at all that the mod already has so huge demands when all the original Hexen required was a mere 486. Well, yeah I know this is mostly because of the JHexen engine, but still...
If I think of the fact that Hexen95 already requires a Pentium with a VERY fast PCI card (it was choppy on a Matrox Mystique but went like a breeze on a Diamond Viper 330) to do nothing more than the DOS version, just a 4x higher resolution (640x400), JHexen is not as bad in comparison. It has a lot of extra features and a full range of 3D effects to make the game look better. Anyway, I'm at a loss how to speed up the game except for creating ares with few visplanes and a low amount of 3D objects, which kinda defeats the purpose... best solution would be a decent MD2 support that doesn't work this slow (w/o MD2 objects, jHexen is pretty fast). As for the amount of postings on one page, I set it to the minimum (15), stupid UBB can't go further down. OTOH if we wouldn't type up such long postings, 15 posts would load a lot faster... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Actually, it might really be an idea to cut longer replies into 2-3 postings, or indeed to start new topics all the time... anyway, I find UBB stupid and cumbersome, but there isn't much of an alternative unless someone can get me an NNTP new server (OH YES!)... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:54:00

kendrome

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Heh, shall I perhaps tell you a bit about my playing style? I've been playing Doom for a long long time, ever since I tried coop in it I've never stopped. (Although lately I've not played it much since my friends really begin to tire of Doom). After playing all these years I would call myself pretty hardcore. And I'm very used to the 10-health only with shotgun syndrome. I would actually call the shotgun guys as one of the worst enemies in Doom since their attacks are instant, anyone with a projectile is piece of cake to take out. As I've played with the berserker mode things have gone pretty fine. Perhaps one of the reasons is that I'm very observant and I try to keep track over every little thing. But hey, why don't we get a third party to come with an opinion before settling this down? Kendrooooooome!!!
You called? I was trying to figure out exactly what you were talking about, and I'm not entirely sure what you want an opinion on. If it's how the beserker mode should work, I think a percentage should be added onto the health (ie if the percentage is 100% and you are at 100 health, then you will be at 200), and when you go back to normal, that same percentage should be taken away (ie if you are at 150 health, then you would end up with 75) Hopefully thats what you wanted an opinion on. Oh, and I think that percentage can be fiddled with, or maybe even depend on the strength of the spell. Oh, and I don't know why anybody should be complaining about speed of these forums, I'm reading these forums while downloaded the latest beta of Windows XP while on a 56k modem. Talk about slow dc:
Wed, 01 Aug 2001 21:45:00

RambOrc

I guess you just have more patience than us... when I have to wait for a computer even a second, I get nervous and always have the feeling that I've been robbed, that this second has been taken away from my life against my will... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Fri, 17 Aug 2001 04:30:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Hey if you'd do that you'd make me real glad! I always wanted better AI but up to now I couldn't find anyone who could do it...
Well, making simple AI additions shouldn't be hard. I could make a new variable to the moster object which defines which state it's in. From there I can make some new states... like forexample that the monster thinks about running away from the player if he's low on health... and other stuff like that. Although there's only one huge downside with all this. Hexen got the worst pathfinding AI you can ever get. That will really limit the expanding of the AI... and I won't be taking the task of writing a pathfinding AI, I don't think I could write any good one. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Oh, did I ever tell you about the army of the hundreds of monsters or does only Camper (and I think Kendrome) know about it? It needs a real boost in terms of AI, it'd need the ability for monsters to march and fight in formations (when 10 Ettins attack you in Hexen, they'll hinder each other as each wants to get to you on the most direct route. with the new AI, they should either flank you from both sides or make a half-circle and advance thus, or something even more complicated, like walking in mainpuli to allow for shooting monsters in the back rows) never target the player with a projectile when there's another monster in the way I also want to have some officers who have an even more advanced AI and actually truly command around the other monsters and when you take those out the given unit will fight less efficiently with less advanced tactics How about that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Eek! Well, some of those things will be hard to make. And monsters walking in formations, would that be suited for a game like this? Most of the combat situations are afterall in close quarters. A team AI is something I really want to make though, I'm so annoyed seeing new FPS's with their pathetic AI and seeing no team AI at all. It would be nice having AIs yelling for help to eachother or having a team leader giving out orders and working out specific strategies to crush the player. Shitto, something on starts on TV starts now I have to see. I'll finish this reply later. -Remi [ August 16, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:39:00

RambOrc

As a starter, there is one thing to do with all monsters' AI: rip out the Maulotaur's from the Heretic source code and implement its movement patterns (to a certain extent) into the AI of all common walking monsters. Why? Though Camper says the Mauloaur's AI isn't any higher than the rest and it looks better only because he is preprogrammed to move around all the time, the fact is that the result I see on my monitor is that while a Weredragon or an Undead Warrior never realizes he's firing at you behind a corner or a dead end where his projectiles never come through but yours do (only from weapons #2 and #4), you can't trick a Maulotaur into such a dead angle to finish him off easily. I've seen it many times when playing Heretic that once I got a Maulotaur into a dead angle, after a shot or 2 he was already out of that corner and charging me from another direction. Also, what about D'Sparil's beast? Hey, imagine you blast our pepped-up Centaur Leaders a couple of times and they've still got several hundred HPs but they are now in a red fury and run and punch and fire at double the rate than normally... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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