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Models support enhancements for Vavoom

Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:12:48

Firebrand

Janis, me and Jaquboss have been discussing a bit how to improve the model support in Vavoom as it is a bit limited now, how difficult it would be to add MD3 support to Vavoom? (I think it would need some work), also another question would be, how difficult it would be to add multi models (like those Doomsday already uses)?
Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:18:42

Herr jaquboss

Yes we are now talking mainly becaue hexen decoration pack , it is really pain to convert multi model decorations.. And one of topic : Is it possible to somewhat make particles tcome with custom texture and blend ( i think that blend is coded in engine as it is in quake 3 style shaders , and particles in vavoom are using texture too , right ? )
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:15:27

dj_jl

I have an idea of having a model definition file, where you can then specify for each frame which model(s), frames, skins etc to use. As of MD3, the biggest problem will be software renderer. Some renderers are/can render particles as points, otherwise it's a hardcoded texture. Only color and alpha can be specified.
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:09:18

RambOrc

IMO for KH/KA it's more important to have a fully working software renderer than ANY nifty visual features.
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:35:58

Firebrand

I don't think we have any problems with KA, as we aren't going to use nothing more but the normal decoration models from Hexen (at least for now).
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:41:51

RambOrc

Actually, not even all of them. Things that don't look remarkably worse as 2D sprites should remain so even in KH, given that a single 3D model might use as much rendering power as twenty or more sprites (which together surely add more to a level than a single model, no matter how intricate). And in KA, I'd say speed is very important (you'll get fragged if your comp is too slow), so there might be only very little or even zero 3D models. In case that sounded a bit complicated, let's put it a bit differently: in KA, very few models or none at all, in KH only where it makes sense. If it's something rather flat or something you don't approach anyway than better a sprite. If it's a simple form, better build it in the engine. If it looks much better as 3D model, then let's use it. Also, in smaller maps there can be more 3D models of course.
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:46:40

Firebrand

Yes, you are right, we might have to make some tests putting the models into the game and then testing how it affects the speed for the game, also, I'm having some problems merging the models used from Doomsday engine to Vavoom, mainly the skins, but I don't know an easy solution for that <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> . Any suggestions Jaquboss?
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:52:10

RambOrc

Before someone misunderstands what I said, it still means hundreds or maybe even thousands of 3D models in KH, I mean 50 maps with 20 items per map are already a thousand models, which makes the work invested worth it.
Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:57:11

Herr jaquboss

Sprites and Brushes mayem <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Hmm, maybe you are right , I wonder which PCs players will have .. I personaly can afford these things .. And you said software render ? Anyone using it today ?! OpenGL will be always faster , even on crap PCs .. Maybe you are avaiting players without any gfx hardware supporting those.. EDIT: I always thought that these things are optional.. And sorry it is really hard to work with MD2 file , and even harder to work with Vavoom support , even for mapmodels ... ( but maybe that was it , you want to have software engine , and mapmodels will work only hardly with MD3 , because software engine <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> ) And of course i really dont know how much is Vavoom powerfull in model rendering , maybe it will be slow.. But before sending models to hell look at Hexen II , in those time it was pretty backwards ( really few monsters ) , but today you can fill hexen II maps with lot monsters and it will work , even on older machines , because most of standard machines of that age died out.. It is your oponion and you are leader , so as you want it will happen.. BTW: I think that in KA it will be very important to have player models , because sprites are mostly not showed properly , and they are simply poor for characters .. I dont think it will be problem to have modeled players items and weapons there , also note that vavoom has a lot of situations when you see players from above.. and look how poor is sprite there...

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