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KRPG dungeon map evaluation

Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:06:37

RambOrc

I'll compile a list of all dungeon maps we have available for KRPG and post it here, along with a link to the maps (they were on koraxdev before but can't find them there now). To standardize evaluation, I have defined attributes for evaluation and a grading system. Maps are graded for following: - overall look and feel: how does it feel playing the map, does it look good? - map flow: how natural it is to move along from location to location, kill monsters and complete objectives - architecture: whether there are complex/good-looking formations built or whether it's just a series of plain square rooms - navigation: how easy or difficult/frustrating it is to move around the map - craftsmanship: the quality of mapping work in general (texture alignment, texture choice, mapping errors, stuck monsters etc etc) Grading is done with a simple 3-values system of - 0 + 0 means average, - means below average, + means above average. In such a system, a map with an averaged score above 0 is a good map, one below 0 is a bad map. A map with several attributes in + and one in - means a map that with a little work can be turned into a great one. A map with lots of - can be probably discarded. Example: A fictional swamp map that looks awesome and gives you that very special Hexen feel, but it has some holes where you can fall off the map and if you look in certain directions, you get a hall of mirrors effect. There are some nicely built rock formations, but much of the swamp is just walking in water, no buildings anywhere. There are monsters everywhere and there is a door in a rock wall that needs a key, but you can only stumble upon that key by accident and monsters often don't react to you before you get very close. This map would get a + for overall look and feel, a - for map flow, a 0 for architecture, a 0 for navigation and a - for craftsmanship. This gives the map a score of -1, which is slightly below average (max range with 5 values is from -5 to +5). Given that the + was awarded for look and feel, it is probably worth correcting some of the technical errors in this map (holes, missing textures) and improving the map flow (placing the key in a more obvious place, moving monsters slightly so their sight of the approaching player isn't blocked nearly all the way by a rock), resulting in a pretty good map with little effort.
Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:41:13

Firebrand

IIRC, maps are now located inside '/resources/maps' in KDev.
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 08:42:13

RambOrc

You're right, I looked for them only in the SE subfolders. The maps for evaluation can be downloaded at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/resources/maps/semaps_alpha_2009/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... lpha_2009/</a><!-- m --> The old town map is of course not relevant any more as there is a new one. Unless people find the old one somehow awesome from layout, then I could try to bring it together (or someone else can fiddle with it too).
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 12:23:13

Firebrand

Let's see what can be done with it, I remember that the main problem was that it was too "open" and it ran slow on Vavoom, I don't know how it will work now, let's give it a spin! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:01:16

Col.J.P.

[quote="RambOrc":1u5kao1n]You're right, I looked for them only in the SE subfolders. The maps for evaluation can be downloaded at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/resources/maps/semaps_alpha_2009/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... lpha_2009/</a><!-- m --> The old town map is of course not relevant any more as there is a new one. Unless people find the old one somehow awesome from layout, then I could try to bring it together (or someone else can fiddle with it too). user & pass, please!
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:37:28

Firebrand

[url:urjk9k2l]http://www.korax-heritage.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1073 <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> 2nd paragraph
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:44:21

Col.J.P.

[quote="Firebrand":3vx1d6g6][url:3vx1d6g6]http://www.korax-heritage.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1073 <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> 2nd paragraph koraxdev and bull-djinn? doesn't work from here
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:55:56

RambOrc

Weird, I just opened a different browser with no passwords saved, copy+pasted <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/resources/maps/semaps_alpha_2009/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... lpha_2009/</a><!-- m --> then put in "koraxdev" and "bull-djinn" and I was in.
Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:32:03

Col.J.P.

I got them, but I don't have Korax Heritage anymore, need to re-build it! not a problem! [img:1mvf4k8b]http://www.speedtest.net/result/580697124.png[/img:1mvf4k8b] now we're rollin' <!-- s8-[ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_shifty.gif" alt="8-[" title="Anxious" /><!-- s8-[ -->
Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:52:55

RambOrc

These maps have no KRPG-specific entries yet so you can test them in Vavoom Hexen (using the engine is important so you spot maps that crash/are slow/have visual errors etc). <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/vavoom/vavoom-win-1.30.zip?download">http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/vavo ... p?download</a><!-- m -->
Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:40:01

Col.J.P.

ok I have Vavoom, no worries
Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:30:45

RambOrc

You can use the following spreadsheet for map evaluation: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/maps/krpg-mapevaluation.ods">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... uation.ods</a><!-- m --> Once you downloaded the file, rename it by adding your name to the filename (e.g. krpg-mapevaluation_ramborc.ods) and upload it somewhere or mail it to me. p.s. I forgot to mention one thing, feel free to use god mode and/or full weapons/ammo cheat at the start of every map you test. We are not interested in how good the item placement of a map is, since KRPG will use a bunch of different items and you can also buy ammo and weapons in towns. Monster placement (where and how they appear, what types etc) is still of interest.
Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:46:16

RambOrc

03_castle.wad crashes on startup with an error message.
Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:01:58

Firebrand

I'll give it a check today and see what happens.
Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:13:49

RambOrc

I am currently evaluating the maps and JP is supposedly doing it too. Best would be if the rest of the team could check into at least a few of them: the more people evaluate the same maps, the more representative their gradings become when averaged out and the easier it is to see which maps are very good and which are very bad (important to be able to decide which are main storyline places and which are difficult to find optional dungeons).
Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:20:05

Firebrand

OK, I'll be busy during the week, but on the weekend I plan to download some of them and evaluate them <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:42:51

Firebrand

The problem with 03_castle.wad was a mapping problem, some lines were 2-sided but had only a front sector, I fixed the map and uploaded the fixed one to KDev, same location <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. It's a good map.
Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:01:53

Crimson Wizard

Allright, I'm into this. I remember trying some maps when I was reforming kdev contents, I remember there were quite good ones.
Wed, 07 Oct 2009 15:18:26

Crimson Wizard

Okay, I checked few. 02_hxthebar overall look and feel 0 map flow - architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 03_castle the map will benefit from fixing polyobjects and heights of furniture overall look and feel 0 map flow 0 architecture 0 navigation - craftsmanship 0 05_chaosrsh very tough fast-pacing map; not sure if passable by anyone except fighter because of one place where you have to jump over long distance. Also, when I try to load a saved game on this map, game exits with an error related to polyobject. overall look and feel + map flow + architecture 0 navigation + craftsmanship 0 07_labyh Quite interesting concept, but not ideal implementation; an open-view labyrinth. Overall arhitecture could be better, also there are some silly texture mistakes. overall look and feel 0 map flow - architecture + navigation - craftsmanship 0 08_hexsoul Actually looks like a small DM map. overall look and feel 0 map flow ? architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:30:10

Crimson Wizard

09_gnosis A very nice highly detailed map with some texture mistakes overall look and feel + map flow 0 architecture + navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 10_hxcod1 Quite atmospheric map, but there's a bug related to a room with crushing ceiling. If you use Chaos Device there to teleport yourself to escape, you won't be able to complete the map normally. overall look and feel + map flow + architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 11_swampledges-hxledsmp Small simple map with surprisingly easy exit. Can be good as DM/Domination map for KA <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> overall look and feel - map flow - architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 12_purpdth1 Boring... large crudely made areas with random monsters. overall look and feel - map flow - architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 13_octarena A tiny but highly detailed DM map. overall look and feel 0 map flow ? architecture + navigation 0 craftsmanship +
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:53:58

RambOrc

Cool, you are now further along with map testing than I am. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> (currently filling in my spreadsheet, maybe I should post the grades here too) Seeing how many + grades you awarded on a number of maps, wanted to make sure my definitions were clear regarding the grades. 0 is already "good", + is "exceptional", i.e. only for outstanding features. Any map with an average score of 0 will make it into the KRPG map collection.
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:25:45

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2d3z5lkn] Seeing how many + grades you awarded on a number of maps, wanted to make sure my definitions were clear regarding the grades. 0 is already "good", + is "exceptional", i.e. only for outstanding features. Hmm... allright, I'll quickly review these maps again to remind how they feel and correct my grades.
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:09:13

RambOrc

The point of the "outstanding" (+) score is that maps that have this score on look&feel and architecture are the primary candidates for main story elements (i.e. the mandatory maps).
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:03:42

Crimson Wizard

Okay, I corrected my grades in previous posts. Tested on more wad: 14-18_necros Quite a good hub n necropolis style, with good atmosphere and architecture, but has lots of small mistakes both in texturing and behavior; overall look and feel + map flow 0 architecture + navigation 0 craftsmanship + I should also mention. If you look closer you'll notice there are few map numbers missing. I checked html file in the folder and it mentiones some maps that aren't there. I found them in "maps/archive" though.
Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:04:07

Crimson Wizard

19_abandonedmines A crude sketch with lots of missing objects and few missing textures overall look and feel - map flow ? architecture - navigation 0 craftsmanship - 20_hexquak2 Classy map with lots of detail. Gameplay is a bit boring though. overall look and feel + map flow 0 architecture + navigation 0 craftsmanship + 21_hexquake A beautiful, highly-detailed map with lots of secrets and hidden passages. There's one place with a mapping mistake, where player cannot get through (not enough space to jump on crate). Also, author obviously paid less attention to gameplay than to map design (too many items, not much enemies). I give this map grade A <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I guess it's best of what I saw to this point. overall look and feel + map flow 0 architecture + navigation + craftsmanship +
Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:14:24

RambOrc

A highly annoying problem while testing is that a) god mode doesn't save my life when I fall down and b) the game crashes when that happens.
Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:28:02

Firebrand

The problem of god mode can't be fixed easily without breaking something else up, and I haven't seen that crash myself, even when trying it out, are you using the latest version of Vavoom?
Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:12:35

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":19p8jnql]The problem of god mode can't be fixed easily without breaking something else up I disagree. AFAIK you should seek for godmode flag in Damage function and fix the condition. As for crash, I have a guess it's the same crash I experienced several times with latest KRPG builds, that happens when player is killed with lots of damaged inflicted, like when hitting suicide button (F5). 2 Ramborc, I suggest you either use latest stable Vavoom version, or use "gimme artefacts" cheat to get yourself wings of wrath and quickly hit "Fly Up" if fell down. By the way, in Vavoom 1.30 ghost Hexen creatures are invincible <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->... since they can be met on some of the maps, I guess second choice is better.
Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:39:26

RambOrc

I might not be using the latest KRPG binaries, will check whether I do.
Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:18:03

Crimson Wizard

22_hexquake3 Another high-detailed map, maybe slightly boring because of complex labirynth where you have to run back and forth getting keys and opening doors. overall look and feel 0 map flow 0 architecture + navigation 0 craftsmanship + 23_agility Looks like a DM map. Based on running on ledges and jumping over pit holes. May be good for player's control skill test... overall look and feel 0 map flow ? architecture 0 navigation 0 craftsmanship 0 24_hxtera Map features one really interesting puzzle and nice scripting, but beyond that it has rather primitive design and boring gameplay. overall look and feel - map flow - architecture 0 navigation - craftsmanship -
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:15:23

RambOrc

I'm using the latest version of KRPG I found to download, but I am still getting a crash every time I fall to my death.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:21:04

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3cltd3ft]I'm using the latest version of KRPG I found to download, but I am still getting a crash every time I fall to my death. That is exactly I was talking about. We have this bug in KRPG <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:31:44

RambOrc

Got following on purpdth1:
- (linespec.PlayerEx.SetWeapon)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (linespec.Inventory.A_Lower)
- VBasePlayer::SetViewState
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.Player.PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: frank left the game

Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown
Also, hxcod1 was constantly crashing for me, unplayably so.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:40:42

RambOrc

Also, whenever I pick up a part of the 4th weapon on any map, vavoom crashes:
Log: QUIETUS ASSEMBLED
- (linespec.PlayerEx.SetWeapon)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (linespec.Inventory.A_Lower)
- VBasePlayer::SetViewState
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.Player.PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: frank left the game

Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:05:32

RambOrc

Regarding Abandoned Mines, it's a concept map (basic layout only) and the player start is in the completely wrong place.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:19:56

Crimson Wizard

That's why I tested all maps in Vavoom 1.30 instead of KRPG build. KRPG crashes must be fixed ofc.
Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:39:45

Firebrand

Got them, I'll investigate these, please keep posting any crashes you find, this will make it easier to track them down <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:22:08

RambOrc

In case you want to see the original context this maps were assembled in, read pages 3-6 of <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/documents/koraxse-designguide_030407.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 030407.pdf</a><!-- m -->
Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:19:47

Crimson Wizard

I fixed the crash when player died from falling (and from suicide). I couldn't reproduce 4th weapon crash and passed hxcod1 map till end without any crashes using my local game copy. Possibly what was bad there is fixed too. On other hand, I found 2 bad things. First, KRPG is noticably slower than original Vavoom. I fear my AI slows it down too much. Going to check it and optimize somehow. Second, when playing hxcod1 map some monsters became stuck after some time. They were not completely dormant, they were still killable but moved only if you hit them. Not sure what's the problem there yet.
Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:03:24

Firebrand

I would like to know, the Vavoom version you are using comes from the SVN repository, but the KRPG Vavoom executable is older than that? I've been doing some small modifications to the core of the engine to make video renderer faster, so that could also make a difference. As for the crashes, good that you fixed them, I'll test the fourth weapons here and see if I get crashes or not <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. @Ramborc: If you are running windows you can get the latest SVN repository compiled executable of Vavoom from here: [url:2fvsdf4w]http://svn.drdteam.org/vavoom/
Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:59:19

RambOrc

Haven't had any more crashes with picking up 4th weapon segments. Also, playing a hub (chuxen) with KRPG let me also test a bit of the leveling/attributes, seemed to work fine. You might want to look into timon's axe, I had the feeling once there was no mana on it it hit for less than half the damage, especially once I leveled a few times and added all the points into strength, around level 6 the mana powered axe killed a slaughtaur in one hit, without mana it took maybe 5-6 hits or so. Some of Pabo Dictter's converted Heretic maps look awful, I checked the river of fire and heart of fire maps and all textures and many objects seem to be wrong counterparts, making it impossible to make an opinion about how good the map would be. Just like back in 2003 or so, once again I have to say that chuxen.wad is nearly on par with the original Hexen in quality, this one should be definitely part of the main storyline. Chuxen is IMO even better than the Necros hub, which probably also should be part of the main storyline. I've checked out maybe 2/3 of the maps, will post my spreadsheet with the scores soon.
Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:04:05

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":12xyzn9j]Just like back in 2003 or so, once again I have to say that chuxen.wad is nearly on par with the original Hexen in quality, this one should be definitely part of the main storyline. Chuxen is IMO even better than the Necros hub, which probably also should be part of the main storyline. Yeah, chuxen looks realy good. I should also name zowehex. I think it was made by same person who did necros, because one of the map there is a modified version of one of the necros map. I still have a number of wads to check, not sure if I am supposed to play them all through in normal way <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> sometimes I get bored.
Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:30:58

RambOrc

Nah just use cheats, no point in not using god mode and full weapons/artifacts since that part of the mapping doesn't need testing, KRPG will have a bunch of different monsters and items anyway. Map flow is more about whether you can find your way to the next piece of puzzle/next key easily or you can't figure out how to proceed.
Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:02:51

RambOrc

I checked zowehex but not sure right off the bat which necros map you mean, however the hub includes hxcod2, a fairly well-known standalone Hexen map.
Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:14:52

Crimson Wizard

Well, I'm done with this. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/resources/maps/semaps_alpha_2009/cw_sealpha_maps_evaluation.txt">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... uation.txt</a><!-- m -->
Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:45:02

RambOrc

Nice, you beat me by about 5 maps or so. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:10:06

Firebrand

Shit! I've got a lot to do for evaluating maps! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:42:09

RambOrc

And here is my evaluation: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/resources/maps/semaps_alpha_2009/krpg-mapevaluation_ramborc.ods">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... amborc.ods</a><!-- m -->
Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:51:15

RambOrc

I've averaged the two scoresheets and came up with following findings. Category "exceptional": stuff that both of us rated above average. This includes 6 single maps and, luckily, the 3 hubs with 5-6 maps each (total 23 maps). There are 3 further maps that are close to them, with our ratings being above average or average (0), bringing the total of very good maps up to 26. Given that there are a few special maps that are required by the story and will be built from a detailed concept (start map, end boss map, the plains where the huge battle takes place), we are already looking at ca. 30 maps spread over 10-15 locations that are good quality material. This should be sufficient for the main storyline, with every further material delegated to less good maps (sidequests, difficult to find dungeons etc). As next step, I'll place these locations on the travel map and number them in the story progress. After that, the detail work can be started.
Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:32:03

Crimson Wizard

Ouch, I remember I wanted to make a table like you did, but forgot <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->
Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:59:11

RambOrc

Here is the first draft, with 17 locations total, with a tentative splitting of the story arc into 5 chapters: 1.starting map in forest, you get attacked then go home to nearby base 2.small order base in forest, you get the starter quest that takes you to an underground location in the forest 3.Underground location in the forest (hexquak2, hexquake, agility with boss fight). After this, you return to the small order base from where you get sent to the big port city ----------------- 4.big port city, rumors lead you to the desert in the east 5.small settlement at the edge of the desert, you get directions to the ancient burial grounds nearby 6.necros (5 maps), after the end boss you find a tablet you can't translate, you take it to the nearby city 7.big city in the plains, you deliver the tablets to your order's headquarters there and while they need time to translate it in full, they see at once it pertains to Korax. So you need to go and talk to Daedalon, the only survivor of the three heroes who fought Korax' minions (original Hexen story) ----------------- 8.Daedalon's tower in the northern forest, you talk to him and he tells you he found out about a cult of Korax worshippers, and he has a couple of places in mind where you might find traces of them. So you go and visit all three. 9.The first place is to the north in the hills (chaossrh, leading to octarena with a boss fight) 10.The second place is to the west in the swamps (gnosis, which exits to swamp ledges with a boss fight there) 11.The third place is to the east, in the mountains (hexquake3, leading to hexsoul with a boss fight) 12.From the clues these places provide, Daedalon concludes the cult is in the southern mountains. So he sends you to the mountain city in the southern mountains. 13.From there, you get directions to the location assumed to be the cultists' headquarters (zowehex, 6 maps). You kill their leader and assume you did your job. However, what about the tablet you left in the plains city? You return to that city to find out about the tablets and it turns out they speak of a huge army coming from the southeast. ----------------- 14.The plains southeast of the city, the epic battle where the heroes of all three orders fight together (the other two are AI controlled). After the battle, you return to the plains city and with the information you gathered from the slain enemies you can determine a headquarters of the cult nearby. 15.Old Fortress in the wastelands (fortress, leads to e1m1 and then to pddm3 with a boss fight). With his dying breath, the cult leader curses you for eternity. You return to Daedalon's tower and he says the only way to end the curse is for you to descend into the great abyss and enter the gates of hell ----------------- 16.The great abyss (concept of krull's last map, redone) 17.chuxen (6 maps), the other side, it ends with fighting Korax' ethereal form on the other side. After victory, there is no other way to make sure the world stays safe is to seal the portal from the far side and be stuck in hell forever (like in the Heretic story).
Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:21:33

RambOrc

In case it wasn't clear, I am expecting feedback. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:19:51

RambOrc

Alternative version with 16 locations in 4 chapters: 1.starting map in forest, you get attacked then go home to nearby base 2.small order base in forest, you get the starter quest that takes you to an underground location in the forest 3.Underground location in the forest (hexquak2, hexquake, agility with boss fight). After this, you return to the small order base from where you get sent to the big port city ----------------- 4.big port city, rumors lead you to the desert in the east 5.small settlement at the edge of the desert, you get directions to the ancient burial grounds nearby 6.necros (5 maps), after the end boss you find a tablet you can't translate, you take it to the nearby city 7.big city in the plains, you deliver the tablets to your order's headquarters there and they see that it pertains to Korax. For a full translation, they send you to Daedalon, the only survivor of the three heroes who fought Korax' minions (original Hexen story) 8.Daedalon's tower in the northern forest, you talk to him and he tells you he found out about a cult of Korax worshippers lead by an unknown fiend who is rumored to be much stronger than any Heresiarch before, and he has a couple of places in mind where you might find traces of them. So you go and visit all three. ----------------- 9.The first place is to the north in the hills (chaossrh, leading to octarena with a boss fight) 10.The second place is to the west in the swamps (gnosis, which exits to swamp ledges with a boss fight there) 11.The third place is to the east, in the mountains (hexquake3, leading to hexsoul with a boss fight) 12.From the clues these places provide, Daedalon pieces some more infos together and sends you to the mountain city in the southern mountains. 13.From there, you get directions to a huge cultist base (zowehex, 6 maps). You kill their leader and return to Daedalon. He translated the tablet in the meantime and founds out about a huge army coming from the southeast, so he sends you to the plains city to warn them. ----------------- 14.The plains southeast of the city, the epic battle where the heroes of all three orders fight together (the other two are AI controlled). After the battle, you return to the plains city and with the information you gathered from the slain enemies you can determine a headquarters of the cult in the eastern mountains. 15.chuxen (6 maps), the headquarters of the order, it exits into the last map 16.very special awesome map with awesome architecture, the uber heresiarch as end boss fight with lots of special gimmicks. the end. My count is a total of 29 combat and 6 non-combat maps for the main storyline.
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:13:41

Crimson Wizard

I may say that I don't like the variant with curse. Looks rather silly, defeating some uber-boss only to remove curse from oneself. Sorry, can't give more feedback right now, being rather busy these days.
Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:56:17

RambOrc

Yep, the second version is more like the original storyline thought out at the beginning of the KH project (2001). The first draft is more like the SE storyline I cobbled together at a point where I just took all available maps and put them into hubs (2003).
Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:26:31

Firebrand

I've told Sahadia to come along to check these two variants, so that he can also give his 2 cents on this. I also prefer the second version more than the first <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:17:13

RambOrc

Once we agree on a version, I'll add it to the concept document along with the land map denoting their locations and Saha can then go and write the whole story.

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