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Korax Arena status and bugs 2

Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:26:39

Crimson Wizard

Results of testing internal build 20081009 (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081009.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081009.zip</a><!-- m -->) 20081103 (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081103.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081103.zip</a><!-- m -->) 20081203 (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081203.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081203.zip</a><!-- m -->) [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu]Updated 2008-12-09 by Crimson Wizard[/color:3iu148cu] //======================================================================= // // COMMON FATAL ISSUES // //======================================================================= None at the moment //======================================================================= // // GAMEPLAY FATAL ISSUES // //======================================================================= 1. [CW] Must be checked -> Occured when Heresiarch won the match due the timeout. [color=#008000:3iu148cu]<- [FB] WTF!![/color:3iu148cu]
- (linespec.PlayerEx.SetWeapon)
- RunFunction
- (linespec.PlayerEx.SetWeapon 19)
- RunFunction
- (game.Player.PlayerExitMap 43)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.Player.PlayerExitMap)
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame

ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object
2. [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu][CW] One case fixed, but still happened once[/color:3iu148cu] Rare game freezes, reason unknown. Happened to me twice, first on "House of Asp" at random moment, secondly on Seminary during team selection. No error messages. //======================================================================= // // RESOURCE ISSUES // //======================================================================= 1. Doom guy has untranslated pixels on certain frames (they are always bright green color). 2. Heresiarch hands on Lightning weapon sprites are noticably different than on other his weapon sprites. Any ideas what can be done here? 3. Brazier With Flame model does not have flame on it. 4. Colored Twined Torch has flame placed wrongly (not centered). 5. Combined mana sprite is partially invisible. //================================================= // // SETTINGS ISSUES // //================================================= 1. Discs and Flechettes are still bound to '0' and '9' in default settings; 2. Auxiliary Fire is not bound to a key at all; 3. Scoreboard is not bound to a key; 4. [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu][CW] Fixed[/color:3iu148cu] Keep Balanced Teams is OFF by default (should be ON) //======================================================================= // // MENU ISSUES // //======================================================================= 3. [CW] Must be checked-> On Team Selection screen the first line in Existing teams selection will have graphic corruption if first team created was not Blue. 4. On final scores table Score and Ctrl columns should be moved right to give more space for player name (and there's far enouph space to do so). //======================================================================= // // GAMEPLAY ISSUES // //======================================================================= 1. [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu][CW] Fixed by FB[/color:3iu148cu] Heresiarch should perhaps have 2nd weapon selected when spawned (currently it's 1st) 2. Heresiarch should have less damage flash intensity; when being attacked by numerous enemies he cannot see anything and becomes easy prey. 3. [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu][CW] Fixed by FB[/color:3iu148cu] In Domination bases perhaps should give 1 pt per 5 seconds as in UT; currently it's 1 pt per 2 seconds that makes teams earn score too fast. 4. In Xmas Havoc there's very little snow falling for some reason. //======================================================================= // // MAP ISSUES // //======================================================================= 1. There's moss decor positioned incorrectly on Agio map (on floor, while it should hang from ceiling). I think it's well noticable, just run around the map to find it. 2. Octarena has Exit Switch which is usable in all modes (it is stupid to exit deathmatch). 3. Agio, Agony, Curse and Malevolence maps miss bot path nodes. 4. [color=#FF0000:3iu148cu][CW] Fixed[/color:3iu148cu] Seminary should be excluded from CTF list (unbalanced); 5. Many maps need Heresiarch Spawn Spots. 6. CS_01 and CS_02 do not run (error: "is not a valid map"). 7. "Gargoyle Forest" should be removed from the game (incomplete map).
Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:43:04

Firebrand

I'll comment only on the exit crash, it seems to be happening for me, it's a problem with Vavoom itself, Janis moved how things get initialized when starting the game, but it seems he didn't accounted this change for cleaning up, meaning something gets screwed up when exiting, I don't have any idea of how to fix it myself, so we'll have to wait for him to fix it up. As for the rest, I'll give it a check and fix whatever is possible, then upload KA again during the weekend <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:19:31

Crimson Wizard

Say, how happened Vavoom now supports loading progs directly from source code? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I was surprised when I found this out.
Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:46:39

RambOrc

Wasn't that an officially announced feature several versions ago?
Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:59:23

Firebrand

[quote="Crimson Wizard":uz6tinql]Say, how happened Vavoom now supports loading progs directly from source code? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I was surprised when I found this out. Yep, the same happened when I saw the removal of the compile batch files from the original distribution, then I inspected the basepak creation files and found that the source was being put inside them and just thought what the hell?? <!-- sorccrazy2 --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccrazy2.gif" alt="orccrazy2" title="orccrazy2" /><!-- sorccrazy2 --> It's really good to see this progress, it also supports importing and spawning objects from any game into any game, so you can now use Doom monsters inside Heretic or Hexen, that's wicked! but a cool feature for sure, heh! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:45:55

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":oza5sm7p]Wasn't that an officially announced feature several versions ago? Do not remember, well, in this case I missed something. It is very convenient ofcourse, although Vavoom seem to launch slower since it need to compile these source codes first. Anyway, I am in very good mood today, because I managed to find and fix the reason of that terrible slowdown. It was all FindMissile function that made bots seek for incoming missiles. Algorythm was... bad. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> After I optimized it, game run about 4-5 times faster <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I am playing with 7 bots having stable average of 20-25 fps on Ancient Arena and about 35-40 fps on Domination map (for example). Updated post above to mark those bugs that are fixed. Also found new ones (added them to the post above as well).
Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:09:00

Firebrand

Most of the resource problems are fixed as well, today I'll work on the rest of the bugs you found and try to fix whatever is possible <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Nice work on those fixes! I'm impressed in how things run now, hehehe! <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcchoked.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> EDIT: I've updated my bugs list with the new ones to track them down... <!-- sorc^^ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc^^.gif" alt="orc^^" title="orc^^" /><!-- sorc^^ -->
Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:23:22

Firebrand

New internal release is up, please update the bugs list with what's fixed and any new bugs that might surface up <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 26 Oct 2008 22:33:48

Firebrand

Updated the first post with what's fixed and what's pending now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, next week will be a bit busy for me, but I'll try to work on KA when possible <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:49:17

Firebrand

I'm uploading a new internal release, it has all the latest fixes and enhancements, it can be played very well, I've played through all the deathmatch maps and domination without crashes. As for CTF AI, in my latest tests, bots seem to ignore how I'm setting their main objective to the CTF flag, bots seem to look properly for path nodes depending their current state (offense, defense), but when they are supposed to look for the flag they just run around the map looking for health, so I guess the problem might be in how they are assigning priority to other things too. But I don't know exactly what the heck check in the code... so any help provided for it is greatly appreciated <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:30:42

RambOrc

OK, post a link once it's up. Best make a full package upload so I can just get one big download and see what's what.
Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:54:12

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3l9uimrr]As for CTF AI, in my latest tests, bots seem to ignore how I'm setting their main objective to the CTF flag, bots seem to look properly for path nodes depending their current state (offense, defense), but when they are supposed to look for the flag they just run around the map looking for health, so I guess the problem might be in how they are assigning priority to other things too. But I don't know exactly what the heck check in the code... so any help provided for it is greatly appreciated <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. Heh, okay, I will go for it (and perhaps add some comments to make the code more understandable) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:56:57

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":1hc8e6un]OK, post a link once it's up. Best make a full package upload so I can just get one big download and see what's what. Looks like relerase was already there: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081103.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081103.zip</a><!-- m --> FB just forgot to place a link. [quote="Crimson Wizard":1hc8e6un][quote="Firebrand":1hc8e6un]As for CTF AI, in my latest tests, bots seem to ignore how I'm setting their main objective to the CTF flag, bots seem to look properly for path nodes depending their current state (offense, defense), but when they are supposed to look for the flag they just run around the map looking for health, so I guess the problem might be in how they are assigning priority to other things too. But I don't know exactly what the heck check in the code... so any help provided for it is greatly appreciated <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. Heh, okay, I will go for it (and perhaps add some comments to make the code more understandable) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Wed, 05 Nov 2008 13:17:01

Crimson Wizard

First of all, I checked the internal release and found some pk3s are corrupted (maybe something happened during download, dunno); anyway I replaced them with current Vavoom's (1.29) and it worked. Then, I checked the Bot AI, and found numerous mistakes there that could spoil the game, like Bots had always maximal Health priority that made them hunt for vials all the time ignoring other things, also now, when there're multiple types of path nodes, path algorythm does not work at all, and that can make bot run around few nodes instead of travelling around the map. I am making some big changes there.
Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:32:05

RambOrc

Good - I will have more time to check out KA after next Wednesday, so the better the download I can get at that point, the better it is. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 06 Nov 2008 12:02:15

Crimson Wizard

Updated SVN. Some notes. 1. I changed Vendor name in KAlauncher from "Korax" to "KoraxTeam" - this means it will change system registry folder too. I think our "company" is Korax Team not Korax <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Also, I finally uploaded fixed Karena.exe sources (a quick-launcher). I think they work normally together since both usee registry adress to write/read data, but quick-launcher do not read some newest options available, so this had to be updated. 2. Uploaded new BotAI... well, I think it works better now with specific modes like CTF and Xmas Havoc, at least Bots really capture flags and CAN bring them to the base, but its really rare, mostly because they spent more time just wandering around the level; either map is too large for them, or path nodes need some extra workaround. For a test I made a small map and both flags in same room, so bot actually run between them capturing and scoring, thus they DO have potential to do so. ...still BotAI needs some serious fix(es); there are 2 main problems at the moment: they have some weird movement technique that sometimes makes them push backs into the wall and standing there facing enemy and doing nothing; secondly they do not recognise when they cannot pickup inventory item and keep roaming around trying to gather it. 3. Updated bugs above (cleaning mostly, 1 new added)
Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:32:03

Firebrand

I was thinking that we could add a timer, so when bots roam to anything beyond this timer, they'll be forced to change targets, for items, we could add a "list" of which items they have roamed and been unable to pick up, so that they don't loop forever, it's not the best solution IMO, because it would make the code too complex, I'll update my local copy and see what I can come with, nice work BTW! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->
Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:41:45

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2bipki4h]I was thinking that we could add a timer, so when bots roam to anything beyond this timer, they'll be forced to change targets, for items, we could add a "list" of which items they have roamed and been unable to pick up, so that they don't loop forever, it's not the best solution IMO, because it would make the code too complex Umm, no sorry, there's much better and simple way, simply to check if player is at limit of that inventory item. We just need a function that does this checkup.
Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:18:32

Firebrand

OK, I've added a check for this, I've also fixed the problems with bots choosing alternate weapons, the methods structure was too messy, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I've seen this on the TODO.txt
BotPlayer still need some fixes, for example enemy distancing is bad
Could you please explain what you mean with "enemy distancing" we are evaluating enemy distance when bots are finding enemies and when they try to attack an enemy, so? Also these two:
Dom Sigil !!!
It's not clear enough, hehehe! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
think about deriving KArenaPlayerPawn from KArenaActor (???? <- wtf?)
I don't think this might be needed anymore, right?
Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:58:45

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1480huup] I've seen this on the TODO.txt
BotPlayer still need some fixes, for example enemy distancing is bad
Could you please explain what you mean with "enemy distancing" we are evaluating enemy distance when bots are finding enemies and when they try to attack an enemy, so? Well I added this for myself primarily, I had difficulties explaining this in english <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> so I just wrote this way. I was thinking of some changes regarding distance that bot choose, yes. [quote="Firebrand":1480huup]
Dom Sigil !!!
It's not clear enough, hehehe! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1438">http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtop ... f=4&t=1438</a><!-- m --> [quote="Firebrand":1480huup]
think about deriving KArenaPlayerPawn from KArenaActor (???? <- wtf?)
I don't think this might be needed anymore, right? Maybe, I do not remember what it was anyway <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:18:37

Crimson Wizard

Anyway, Firebrand, are you doing that inventory checkup? Because I was starting to write that already, so I need to know if you're doing something too, so we do not do same work.
Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:17:40

Firebrand

I've updated the SVN repository with a simple method that just checks if the Inventory amount of the item that bots detect is below the maximum allowed for that specific item, if it is, then bots are allowed to pick it up, if it isn't bots won't. BTW, sorry for not posting about it yesterday <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:15:27

Crimson Wizard

Well, alternate weapons works nce now, bots could be pain in the ass sometimes, using all those discs of repulsion, especially in the Bomb mode <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> As for pickup check, I debugged it and I must say, it does not work, at all <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> I've already found what is the problem and rewritting it now. Mainly, most items are not stored in player inventory as 'themsleves', but as parent class, for instance, ItemBlueMana and ItemBigBlueMana are stored as Mana1, Weapon pickups are stored as REAL weapon classes, etc. I almost done with this, just need to test it a bit more to be sure. What else left here... I mean - with bots AI. I found the problem that bot usually cannot understand he is stuck in some obstacle, like tree or barrel, he just bumps in it forever unless there's enemy around that may attract his attention. More, sometimes bots stuck in the walls, like they did in older versions of KA. Looks like their passability check works incorrectly. I am into this also now. Then, I sometimes have weird feeling that bots afraid to use their weapons often <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> don't know why this happens, but, for example, if they have a melee weapon, they do not attack continiously, but make a hit and go away, then close , make single hit and go away again;can it be low skill level?
Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:14:21

Firebrand

I suppose skill level is the problem here, remember that skill level is calculated bot with the bot stats and with the game level you choose at the beginning <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Have you tried playing them in the nightmare skill? I've found they act better in some situations. They aren't still perfect, but they work better now, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:59:26

Crimson Wizard

Made big post here: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://korax-heritage.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=22352#p22352">viewtopic.php?p=22352#p22352</a><!-- l --> Updated bug list above, I fixed the one in LineSpecialLevelInfo, since we now have a substitution of that common class in custom progs. Game looks very clean now, which makes me happy <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Now, VERY IMPORTANT TODO LIST <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> (things that would be great to have in next beta (if not next internal release <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> )) - Different Disc of Repulsion modes must have different icons <!-- s](*,) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_wall.gif" alt="](*,)" title="Brick wall" /><!-- s](*,) --> Arghh! - Strangely, I realized that only now, but I suppose in team gameplay player sprite should have color of Team, not his personal one, otherwise it's really hard to distinguish allies/enemies, especially on far distances. - It would be nice to add some "Alert" and "Flag Returned" sounds to CTF.
Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:04:33

Firebrand

Shit! Now maps don't work for different gameplay modes, I'm testing Octarena in DM and NOTHING spawns on the map, the map is empty, not even teleport spots are spawned, nor dynamic lights... I've opened this map in Doom Builder and made sure all the flags were correct, so I don't know what else is the problem.
Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:27:56

Crimson Wizard

Heh, I made some last moment changes and did not tested them properly. It appears there are some values for Thing Flags that are forbidden. I fixed that now, and also please check KA Wiki just in case to know new Flag values (and correspondence in WadAuthor). Also, I am preparing 3 modified maps now, Egyptian (DO_01) with changes to make it compatible for CTF (that include not only mode-dependent things, but mode-dependent architecture as well, so it may be used as a sample of such customization), Xmas havoc map with some path nodes placed (nothing special) and Seminary (DO_2) with some customization specially for KTH mode (I thought it MUST be compatible for KTH, since it's Hereisarch's place after all <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> )
Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:28:00

Firebrand

Sounds good! I'm fixing path nodes in maps that don't have them or maps that have them but placed incorrectly, that's when I got that problem myself and thought to post about it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I'll be creating a domination map (which I've already started, I might place some bounce sectors and new stuff on it) <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:12:35

Crimson Wizard

Hmm, no comments from the others... soI'll write some <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> First of all I am happy to tell, that's the most crash-clean release in my memory <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught2.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Three obvious bugs I experienced so far: 1. Minotaur caused crash once; but I forgot to store the log, sorry. I believe there was something with IsTeammate method. 2. Text corruption in team selection window (see the bug list above) still present. It's looks like it is not being redrawn fully or something. Does not cause any game bugs, but simply annoying. 3. Blue and Red Team Starts are not used when player spawns for the very first time (already after Team is selected). I think I forgot to override some basic method. Maybe something else.. What needs to be done. Dunno <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Well, Bot AI still acts weird sometimes, I think I have some ideas how to improve them but that will require some big changes, so will take some time. Maybe we should make all the menus have textured backgrounds? DoomJedi's icons still waiting implementation...
Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:25:37

RambOrc

I will give detailed feedback over the weekend. Regarding the texture background for menus, yes that should be for all menus I guess, the Hexen start screen really doesn't fit anyway.
Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:52:59

Crimson Wizard

Also, I always forget to ask Firebrand, can we have all textures, flats and connected lumps (TEXTURE1,2, PNAMES, PLAYPAL) put into one single WAD and this wad put into some pk3 then? That's because if you want to make a map using all new textures in editor (not only ones from Hexen) you have to gather all that yourself <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> well I made this for myself ofc, I can upload this WAD to kdev if needed... only egyptian textures need to be purged, there are duplicates, but this need to be done very carefully, first checking "egyptian" map to make sure it not uses duplicates of same texture. Then, about Gragoyle Forest. Map is nice but nearly empty. It is supposed to be CTF, hmm, but I got different thought. Currently it is made so that all players start at one place, and there is a Demon Codex artifact lying in the small house on the opposite side of the map. I don't know what was the original author's intension, but it looks like some Quest mission for me; I mean a game mode where a team of players must complete some objective (get that artifact), or maybe two teams compet vs each other. What do you think of that?
Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:37:22

RambOrc

New game modes are cool, as long as there is more than one map for each. OTOH the objective described above is very similar to that of Castle Sweep. BTW AFAIK I suggested Gargoyle Forest to be a single player map for KRPG instead of a KA multiplayer one.
Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:03:17

Firebrand

Yep, I'll remove the map from KA and we'll use it for KRPG instead <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, as for textures, I don't really see any problems in merging them as CW proposes, so I'll handle it for the next release too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:32:13

Crimson Wizard

Heh, KA can be really frightening, I once nearly jumped from my chair when some freak rushed from dark passage shooting disc of repulsion at me <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->
Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:14:18

Col.J.P.

Castle Sweep mode not working, degug here: Init: Adding ./basev/common/basepak.pk3 Init: adding ./hexen.wad Init: Adding ./basev/hexen/basepak.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/basepak.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/data.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/flats.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/graphics.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/maps.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/models.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/music.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/patches.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/sounds.pk3 Init: Adding ./karena/sprites.pk3 Init: Winsock TCP/IP Initialised DevNet: TCP/IP address INADDR_ANY Parsing Importing packages Parsing Importing packages Parsing Importing packages Defining constants Defining structs Defining classes Defining struct members Defining class members Emiting classes Defining constants Defining structs Defining classes Defining struct members Defining class members Emiting classes Parsing Importing packages Defining constants Defining structs Defining classes Defining struct members Defining class members Emiting classes Defining constants Defining structs Defining classes Defining struct members Defining class members Emiting classes Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = blue Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 170 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 7 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Blue_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = red Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 11141120 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 6 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Red_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = gold Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 11184640 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 5 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Gold_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = lime Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 5614080 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 3 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Lime_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = green Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 34816 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 16 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Green_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = gray Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 8947848 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 20 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Gray_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = brown Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 8930304 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 18 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Brown_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = team Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = { Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = name Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = magenta Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = colour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 8913032 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = fontcolour Dev: TeamInfoParser : Number = 19 Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = an_leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = Gen_An_Magenta_Leads Dev: TeamInfoParser : String = } Init: Parsing DECORATE definition files Init: Processing DECORATE scripts Log: Unsupported flag OldRadiusDmg in BossBrain Log: Unsupported flag SeesDaggers in Acolyte Log: Unsupported flag NoSplashAlert in Acolyte Log: Unsupported flag SeesDaggers in Templar Log: Unsupported flag NoSplashAlert in Templar Log: Unsupported flag FixMapThingPos in KlaxonWarningLight Log: Unsupported flag NoSplashAlert in KlaxonWarningLight Log: Unsupported flag NoSplashAlert in CeilingTurret Init: Post-procesing Parsing Importing packages Defining constants Defining structs Defining classes Defining struct members Defining class members Emiting classes Init: Selected DirectSound sound device Init: ====================================== Init: Initialising DirectSound driver. Init: 3D sound on Init: IKsPropertySet acquired Init: EAX 2.0 supported Init: Selected Windows multimedia system midi device Init: Using 127 sound buffers Init: Selected Win32 OpenGL rasteriser device Init: Parsing effect defs Init: No such sprite alco Init: No such sprite alco Init: No such class ClericStaffMissile Init: No such class CentaurMissile Init: No such class DemonMissile Init: No such class Demon2Missile Init: No such class SerpentMissile Init: No such class IceGuyMissile Init: No such class IceGuyMissile2 Init: No such class WraithMissile Init: No such class DragonFX2 Init: No such class Sorcerer Init: No such class SorcererBall1 Init: No such class SorcererBall2 Init: No such class SorcererBall3 Init: No such class SorcererFX2 Init: No such class SorcererFX3 Init: No such class KoraxSpirit1 Init: No such class ArtifactTorch Init: No such class ArtifactSpeedBoots Init: No such class ArtifactBoostArmor Init: No such class ZTWinedTorch Init: No such class ZTWinedTorchUnlit Init: No such class MinotaurMissile Init: No such class MinotaurFloorFire1 Init: No such class MinotaurFloorFire2 Init: No such class BlasterPuff1 Init: No such class HornRodMissile1 Init: No such class GoldWandMissile2 Init: No such class HereticMummyMissile Init: No such class ItemArmor1 Init: No such class ItemArmor2 Init: No such class ItemArmor3 Init: No such class ItemArmor4 Init: No such class ItemHealingBottle Init: No such class ArtifactHealthFlask Init: No such class ArtifactSuperHeal Init: No such class ArtifactInvisibility Init: No such class ArtifactInvulnerability Log: Executing startup.vs Log: Executing default.cfg Log: Executing config.cfg Log: Can't find autoexec.cfg Init: Stencil buffer available Log: 1280x1024x32. Init: GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation Init: GL_RENDERER: GeForce 9500 GT/PCI/SSE2 Init: GL_VERSION: 2.1.2 Init: GL_EXTENSIONS: Init: - GL_ARB_color_buffer_float Init: - GL_ARB_depth_texture Init: - GL_ARB_draw_buffers Init: - GL_ARB_draw_instanced Init: - GL_ARB_fragment_program Init: - GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow Init: - GL_ARB_fragment_shader Init: - GL_ARB_half_float_pixel Init: - GL_ARB_half_float_vertex Init: - GL_ARB_framebuffer_object Init: - GL_ARB_geometry_shader4 Init: - GL_ARB_imaging Init: - GL_ARB_multisample Init: - GL_ARB_multitexture Init: - GL_ARB_occlusion_query Init: - GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object Init: - GL_ARB_point_parameters Init: - GL_ARB_point_sprite Init: - GL_ARB_shadow Init: - GL_ARB_shader_objects Init: - GL_ARB_shading_language_100 Init: - GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp Init: - GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object Init: - GL_ARB_texture_compression Init: - GL_ARB_texture_cube_map Init: - GL_ARB_texture_env_add Init: - GL_ARB_texture_env_combine Init: - GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 Init: - GL_ARB_texture_float Init: - GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat Init: - GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two Init: - GL_ARB_texture_rectangle Init: - GL_ARB_transpose_matrix Init: - GL_ARB_vertex_array_object Init: - GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object Init: - GL_ARB_vertex_program Init: - GL_ARB_vertex_shader Init: - GL_ARB_window_pos Init: - GL_ATI_draw_buffers Init: - GL_ATI_texture_float Init: - GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once Init: - GL_S3_s3tc Init: - GL_EXT_texture_env_add Init: - GL_EXT_abgr Init: - GL_EXT_bgra Init: - GL_EXT_blend_color Init: - GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate Init: - GL_EXT_blend_func_separate Init: - GL_EXT_blend_minmax Init: - GL_EXT_blend_subtract Init: - GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array Init: - GL_EXT_Cg_shader Init: - GL_EXT_bindable_uniform Init: - GL_EXT_depth_bounds_test Init: - GL_EXT_direct_state_access Init: - GL_EXT_draw_buffers2 Init: - GL_EXT_draw_instanced Init: - GL_EXT_draw_range_elements Init: - GL_EXT_fog_coord Init: - GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit Init: - GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample Init: - GL_EXT_framebuffer_object Init: - GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats Init: - GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB Init: - GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 Init: - GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters Init: - GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 Init: - GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays Init: - GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil Init: - GL_EXT_packed_float Init: - GL_EXT_packed_pixels Init: - GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object Init: - GL_EXT_point_parameters Init: - GL_EXT_rescale_normal Init: - GL_EXT_secondary_color Init: - GL_EXT_separate_specular_color Init: - GL_EXT_shadow_funcs Init: - GL_EXT_stencil_two_side Init: - GL_EXT_stencil_wrap Init: - GL_EXT_texture3D Init: - GL_EXT_texture_array Init: - GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object Init: - GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc Init: - GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc Init: - GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc Init: - GL_EXT_texture_cube_map Init: - GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp Init: - GL_EXT_texture_env_combine Init: - GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 Init: - GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic Init: - GL_EXT_texture_integer Init: - GL_EXT_texture_lod Init: - GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias Init: - GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp Init: - GL_EXT_texture_object Init: - GL_EXT_texture_sRGB Init: - GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent Init: - GL_EXT_timer_query Init: - GL_EXT_vertex_array Init: - GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip Init: - GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat Init: - GL_KTX_buffer_region Init: - GL_NV_blend_square Init: - GL_NV_copy_depth_to_color Init: - GL_NV_depth_buffer_float Init: - GL_NV_conditional_render Init: - GL_NV_depth_clamp Init: - GL_NV_explicit_multisample Init: - GL_NV_fence Init: - GL_NV_float_buffer Init: - GL_NV_fog_distance Init: - GL_NV_fragment_program Init: - GL_NV_fragment_program_option Init: - GL_NV_fragment_program2 Init: - GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage Init: - GL_NV_geometry_shader4 Init: - GL_NV_gpu_program4 Init: - GL_NV_half_float Init: - GL_NV_light_max_exponent Init: - GL_NV_multisample_coverage Init: - GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint Init: - GL_NV_occlusion_query Init: - GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil Init: - GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object Init: - GL_NV_pixel_data_range Init: - GL_NV_point_sprite Init: - GL_NV_primitive_restart Init: - GL_NV_register_combiners Init: - GL_NV_register_combiners2 Init: - GL_NV_texgen_reflection Init: - GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc Init: - GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 Init: - GL_NV_texture_expand_normal Init: - GL_NV_texture_rectangle Init: - GL_NV_texture_shader Init: - GL_NV_texture_shader2 Init: - GL_NV_texture_shader3 Init: - GL_NV_transform_feedback Init: - GL_NV_vertex_array_range Init: - GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 Init: - GL_NV_vertex_program Init: - GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 Init: - GL_NV_vertex_program2 Init: - GL_NV_vertex_program2_option Init: - GL_NV_vertex_program3 Init: - GL_NVX_conditional_render Init: - GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap Init: - GL_SGIS_texture_lod Init: - GL_SGIX_depth_texture Init: - GL_SGIX_shadow Init: - GL_SUN_slice_accum Init: - GL_WIN_swap_hint Init: - WGL_EXT_swap_control Init: Maximum texture size: 8192 Init: Found GL_ARB_multitexture... Init: Multitexture extensions found. Init: Max anisotropy 16.000000 Init: Clamp to edge extension found. Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 0, GameType = 1 Log: Playing demo from demos/demo1.dem. Log: ERROR: couldn't open. Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 1, GameType = 5 Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 2, GameType = 2 Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 3, GameType = 6 Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 4, GameType = 7 Dev: ChangeDeathmatch : newVal = 5, GameType = 3 Log: VTextureManager::AddPatch: Pic cs_01th not found Log: Playing demo from demos/demo2.dem. Log: ERROR: couldn't open. Log: Playing demo from demos/demo3.dem. Log: ERROR: couldn't open. Log: VTextureManager::AddPatch: Pic cs_01im not found Dev: Spawning server cs_01 Dev: MainGameInfo::InitNewGame : GameType = 3 Init: adding maps/cs_01.wad Log: Host_Error: Map cs_01 is not a valid map Log: > Log: >exit Log: Unknown command exit Log: Playing demo from demos/demo1.dem. Log: ERROR: couldn't open.
Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:41:43

Firebrand

I'm now getting this when running KA with the latest Vavoom revision:
- (linespec.EntityEx.IsFast)
- RunFunction
- (linespec.EntityEx.IsFast 23)
- RunFunction
- (linespec.Actor.OnMapSpawn 1)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (linespec.Actor.OnMapSpawn)
- VLevel::SpawnThinker
- VThinkerChannel::ParsePacket
- VChannel::ReceivedRawMessage
- VNetConnection::ReceivedPacket
- VNetConnection::GetMessages
- CL_ReadFromServer
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect
- VThinker::StopSound
- VEntity::StopSound
- VEntity::DestroyThinker
- VLevel::DestroyAllThinkers
- VLevel::Destroy
- CL_Disconnect
- CL_Shutdown
Log: CL_Shutdown failed
Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown
Seems that some problems arisen from that... that's what I meant with "problems" when we began messing with thing flags for map editors <!-- s:-& --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_sick.gif" alt=":-&" title="Sick" /><!-- s:-& --> .
Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:47:09

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":645oug3c] Seems that some problems arisen from that... that's what I meant with "problems" when we began messing with thing flags for map editors <!-- s:-& --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_sick.gif" alt=":-&" title="Sick" /><!-- s:-& --> . These flags are really useful, so I won't give up easily <!-- s:evil: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil or Very Mad" /><!-- s:evil: --> Besides, I believe the problem is not the flags, but the fact that I substitited Actor.OnMapSpawn in our custom progs; it must be compared with common one in recent Vavoom revision.
Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:01:30

Crimson Wizard

I looked in this problem more closely and found out following: - The crash happens because Level.Game reference is none. That's really weird, because if you place a condition there to prevent crash, game plays normally at first glance. - I debugged Vavoom executable and found out this happen even before flags check happen, so I doubt this has anything related to things flags. - More than that, this happens to objects that are spawned during the game, i.e. to these that are not on map initially, like InitialInvulnerability powerup. - This happen to certain objects only, actually to certain classes of objects. At first I did not recognise this, but after a while I start to believe these classes have one similarity - they are all declared in DECORATE. Dunno what this means.
Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:58:57

Firebrand

Good work! I'll look into it today and see if I can find a trace for the crash, thanks for the help! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:37:35

Firebrand

I've found that the problem comes from Vavoom itself, it seems to be related to how the network starts up the server and send the information to the client, somehow something is "lost" and the client has incomplete information to add thinkers to the game. Now we only need to fix it, heh! <!-- s8-[ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_shifty.gif" alt="8-[" title="Anxious" /><!-- s8-[ -->
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:59:23

RambOrc

Regarding team modes: IMO there should simply be red team and blue team and the players should be automatically assigned to them. I played CTF in Ratchet and I was on lime team and the enemy go the lime flag and I haven't even figured out yet whether the blue or the red is the "lime" flag and base. In other game modes, this might not be such a prob, although if we go with more than two colors, they should be simple primary colors, not something ppl have to think twice about what they see. When I played Ratchet in KTH mode, there was music. When I played in CTF mode, there was no music. Also, once I fragged a player in CTF, I got following error and a crash:
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: spawning at random location
Log: Host_Error: Player 2 has no start spots
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect
Patches: there have been so many small patches in different threads I don't think I installed every one of them. They should all be in a dedicated thread where the first post of the thread is always updated with all links to patch files and their install order. Seminary map: whoever revamped it, it's nice. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Also, FB upgraded the Seven Portals architecture in Vavoom a year or two ago for single player, that map is perfect for CTF so FB if you could take that upgraded map again and add the stuff so it can be played with CTF (maybe domination too) it'd be a good 3rd CTF map. Same for the greatly revamped Winnowing Hall map, it would be good for Domination and ofc for deathmatch. As far as I remember those were the two maps that were finished upgrading with Vavoom features for the Vavoom TSC, since no ETA on that mod we could as well use those maps now.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:16:03

Firebrand

First the good news, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I've made a small branch from the actual SVN revision (which is bugged) and removed the offending code from it, this makes KA work again, if you all agree, later today I'll post a new internal release. Now, for maps, I was working on a Seven Portals map for KA, it got lost somewhere, but I have a good memory of how it was, I'll rebuild it and post the maps ASAP. I've got the TITLEMAP working too (finally <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), you will be able to check it in the new internal release too.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:18:44

RambOrc

One more thing, bots are overusing discs of repulsion. At least on the two lowest skill level they should either never use them or max one every 15 secs or so.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:10:49

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2zw95lut]First the good news, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I've made a small branch from the actual SVN revision (which is bugged) and removed the offending code from it, this makes KA work again,. Wait wait wait, what do you mean "branch from revision"? Do you modify Vavoom engine or our progs? About Ratchet and red/blue colors. I believe there's a way to change textures on fly, maybe even translate them as we translate sprites? I was thinking about that too. Well, in last case we may really use only blue/red team.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:55:31

RambOrc

Actually i would prefer red/blue only even if it's possible to change colors on the fly. Much less confusion.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:16:13

Crimson Wizard

Firebrand, Janis has made some fixed in Vavoom engine SVN, in the method exactly one that I was debugging later, so I suppose that should fix our problem as well. [quote="RambOrc":i6h0p3r6]Actually i would prefer red/blue only even if it's possible to change colors on the fly. Much less confusion. Maybe we should add team color options in menu, like team 1 color and team 2 color, so that only them would be available for seletion? Thus if user wants only r&b colors he may set them up and do not worry anymore. I just want to leave other colors too, because, as I said earlier , I got bored seeing always only r&b teams in all games.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:05:48

Firebrand

[quote="Crimson Wizard":3mi4pj3z]Wait wait wait, what do you mean "branch from revision"? Do you modify Vavoom engine or our progs? It was only in my local copy of the Vavoom SVN, of course this wouldn't be committed at all, it was a temporary solution while Janis fixed it <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, since this has happened already, there's no more need of a temporary solution at all, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> [quote="Crimson Wizard":3mi4pj3z]About Ratchet and red/blue colors. I believe there's a way to change textures on fly, maybe even translate them as we translate sprites? I was thinking about that too. Well, in last case we may really use only blue/red team. Yes, it's possible, I support CW here, I like the idea of having more colors for teams other than red/blue, we should allow players to choose them at will, maybe with a solution similar to the ones he proposes too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:09:04

RambOrc

As long as a) there is a way to set it to have only blue and red teams and b) that is the default setting in the options, I'm OK with adding more variety.
Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:36:01

Crimson Wizard

Okay , I added the code; now New game menu has Team settings submenu which include: - fixed teams (on/off) - fixed team 1 (select team) - fixed team 2 (select team) - team autoselect (on/off) - I moved this here from server settings; this means that team will be selected automatically for human player (otherwise selection screen is shown in-game). - auto player team (select team): a team which is selected for player; works only when 'team autoselect' is toggled ON; if fixed teams is ON , then only these 2 fixed teams are selectable here.
Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:13:14

RambOrc

Perfect. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:19:05

Firebrand

MenuScreenTeamSettings.vc file is missing, so I can't test it, it seems to be a good idea thought <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:41:07

Crimson Wizard

Fixed.
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:09:36

RambOrc

BTW most of the stuff in the pk3 files is .lmp, how am I supposed to edit/view those?
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:29:03

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2qt122w9]BTW most of the stuff in the pk3 files is .lmp, how am I supposed to edit/view those? I do not know why Firebrand renames all the files into LMPs. In my opinion they all should be left with their original extension. Actual file type... depends. In Graphics package they could be Doom-format bitmaps or common PNGs. In music/sound they could be MUS, WAV, MIDI and one file is OGG (xjingle.ogg). In data.pk3 they are mostly text scripts.
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:55:57

RambOrc

Yes please give me real file extensions. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Also, is there MP3 support in Vavoom?
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:10:59

Firebrand

Yes, Vavoom supports MID, MUS, MOD, XM, S3M, IT, OGG, WAV, MP3, and other formats for music <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for renaming lumps, I'm a lazy guy and didn't wanted to rename everything in the PK3 files... but I guess I'll have to do it now, hehehehe! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:19:17

RambOrc

If music is in MP3, is there a noticeable reduction in game speed?
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:10:13

Firebrand

Not that I've noticed, we are actually using OGG music in XMAS Havoc and MP3 music in Football, so you can tell for yourself <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. As for renaming lumps, I'm almost done, I've also fixed problem with colors for translations in colored decorations for KA, so now it will be even easier to distinguish where to go in CTF and football. BTW, CW do colored decorations work as in CTF in football too? I'm asking this, because I would like to implement them for football too, it would come handy to place them and avoid confusions about where each team's gate is.
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:35:08

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2yb202zv]BTW, CW do colored decorations work as in CTF in football too? They should... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Game model should call PrepareColoredDecorations() to support them.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:59:41

Crimson Wizard

I have a proposal to rename KA Alternate Fire to Auxilary Weapons or alike, 'cause Alt-Fire is a term for something different. Also, maybe I mentioned that already, I suggest using Q and E as default keys for Discs and Flechettes, thus it will be faster and easier to switch between all those modes in combat (assuming player uses classic WASD layout for movement); currently defaults are 9 and 0.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:00:21

Firebrand

I'll change it to default to 'Q' and 'E' <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:12:20

RambOrc

Or you can just add Q and A as secondary defaults.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:27:01

Firebrand

I've left the defaults as 'Q' and 'E'. I'm working on the football map as I type, I've actually re-added the missing 3d floors, some colored decorations (which didn't work code wise in football, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), I'll be working slowly on the remaining maps <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, mainly because my monitor has problems when it heats, this weekend I'll copy everything KH related to my other computer to work without pauses. I hope to have it ready for a new internal release and if it works, it'll be the next public beta, the game feels stable enough for me <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:30:19

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":qld9sf7l]some colored decorations (which didn't work code wise in football, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), Umm... they do not? Might it be you did something wrong? you may take the latest maps update on kdev as an example, DO_01 for instance should have this code.
Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:21:59

Firebrand

Nope, decorations translation method was missing checks for football gameplay mode, I've added them and they work greatly now <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:33:27

Crimson Wizard

I noticed following maps do not have path nodes for bots - at all: - Agio - Curse - Malevolence
Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:26:08

Firebrand

I'm on it now, I wanted to finish football for good, I've added new sounds and sprites for this gameplay mode, I've uploaded a new internal test version too, once I add the new maps I'm working on and these fixes I'll upload a new internal test again <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. BTW, I won't be around during this weekend, I've got to attend some school stuff during it (unfortunately <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->), I'll be back by Monday hopefully.
Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:04:59

Crimson Wizard

From the first glance, game runs amazingly smooth with moderate number of bots; only slowdowns I experienced wer caused by "blaster" weapons (like mage's wands, fighter ripper). I'll post bugs (if any) and todo list later. PS. Link to internal version is: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081203.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081203.zip</a><!-- m -->
Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:40:59

Crimson Wizard

Updated bugs list (1st post)
Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:09:22

Firebrand

During the weekend I've been fixing and committing the fixes from some of the bugs reported here <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> , I've got two different questions here. What do the new bars that appear in football when pressing use infront of the ball mean? Do you think that we should test the KA master server before the release?
Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:44:09

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1iirurs0]What do the new bars that appear in football when pressing use infront of the ball mean? Blue bar means power. Yellow bar filled by Green gauge is distance from ball. Well, I can add this info to Wiki later.
Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:29:39

Firebrand

It's OK, I wanted to know it for myself, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:46:27

Crimson Wizard

Heh, nice, it seems today I finally tracked the reason of bots sometimes roam blindly like they do not see enemy until someone shoots them. It appeared that timer that made them not see surroundings for a while after heavy damage did not reset after death, and since no one damaged them, it was not updated and slowly decreased from ,say, 30 seconds or so <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:36:40

Firebrand

Wooho! Finally on vacations, I just have to sign my grades of this period and I'm done with school, I'm in the process of packaging KA for a new internal release, I've added path nodes to all the maps as well as heresiarch spawn spots, if this tests work right, we'll have our official 1.0 release!! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:27:02

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":13cegks9]I just have to sign my grades of this period and I'm done with school, Say, are you really age 25 now or I am misunderstanding something? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Then why do you study in school? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:08:36

RambOrc

I studied til 28 or so myself.
Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:26:38

Firebrand

[quote="Crimson Wizard":srfipjnw][quote="Firebrand":srfipjnw]I just have to sign my grades of this period and I'm done with school, Say, are you really age 25 now or I am misunderstanding something? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Then why do you study in school? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Yep I'm 25 now, I'm studying university, but it's still school, right? hehehe! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for why still studying, because I made a year of slacking after high school <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->, but then I decided that I wanted to do something with my life (I guess)... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Anyway, I've uploaded the latest internal build, you can find it here: [url:srfipjnw]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081216.zip <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> I think it's pretty and stable enough for a final release, but you tell me, heh! <!-- sorc^^ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc^^.gif" alt="orc^^" title="orc^^" /><!-- sorc^^ -->
Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:53:04

Crimson Wizard

The build has wrong keyboard config once again.
Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:50:13

Firebrand

I think I know what the problem might be, there's a config.cfg file in karena folder, did you tried deleting it? It might have the configuration settings of my computer... I forgot to delete it before uploading <!-- s#-o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_doh.gif" alt="#-o" title="d'oh!" /><!-- s#-o --> . It works fine for me BTW, if I delete the config.cfg file the keys are correctly bound for the alternate fire (or whatever is called now, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:42:34

Crimson Wizard

You also forgot to upload your latest changes to SVN again <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> Anyway, there's no obvious significant errors, only some minor things. [quote="RambOrc":2cq526hw]I studied til 28 or so myself Heh, not that I find surprising studying in old age, it's just that word "school" usually associates with what is called "elementary school" in western countries (AFAIK). <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:05:20

Stryker

[quote="Crimson Wizard":1tgjcn9e]Heh, not that I find surprising studying in old age, it's just that word "school" usually associates with what is called "elementary school" in western countries (AFAIK). <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Around here, at least, school can mean everything. From "kindergarten" to college. But it typically means like high school and grades around that.
Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:45:01

Crimson Wizard

Found 2 new bugs: 1. Armor is being picked up even if you have maximum (it does not add anything though). 2. Bots cannot recognise ascending slopes, so unless they have path nodes along all slope they will think that top of the slope is unreachable for them (Trying to fix this now).
Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:55:55

Firebrand

[quote="Crimson Wizard":1wv9lqsc]1. Armor is being picked up even if you have maximum (it does not add anything though). Fixed it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="Crimson Wizard":1wv9lqsc]2. Bots cannot recognise ascending slopes, so unless they have path nodes along all slope they will think that top of the slope is unreachable for them (Trying to fix this now). Yes, I've noticed this too, I'll see if this can be detected somehow.
Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:20:01

Crimson Wizard

About the last bug. I think I found very simple way to check slopes, and it worked, but there is a problem that I could only understand after long time debugging. It looks like opening objects do not refer to same floors all the time, that is some floors could be skipped. The reason, I suppose, is that when line is being met, opening may take a floor that lies before the line, or after the line; thus some floor may just never checked. The result is that when bot checks the path for the initial time, he accepts it, but when he starts to move AI checks if target is still reachable and calls the procedure once again, and it may fail on the very second time. I mentioned this problem here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1469">http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtop ... f=2&t=1469</a><!-- m -->
Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:18:35

Firebrand

It shouldn't be too difficult to add that to opening_t, I'll look into it and see if it's possible <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> .
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:43:29

Crimson Wizard

Our Wiki states that Krater of Might gives "full charge for the 3 mana types", but in game it actually gives about 50 pts of each. Should this be changed? (For info: normal mana pickup gives 20, Big mana pickup gives 30, combined mana gives 40 of each).
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:00:54

Firebrand

No, it's correct, full mana of the 3 types is too much IMO, it's fine the way it works, the wiki info should be updated, I totally missed it myself, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:13:22

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1dmuqb7c]full mana of the 3 types is too much IMO Is it? If used as a rare powerup, like 1-2 max per map it can be okay.
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:15:15

Firebrand

Might be, I don't know, I guess we could test it out, why not? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:22:20

Firebrand

Double post, sorry... I've added extra parameters to opening_t like this:
struct opening_t
{
	float		top;
	float		bottom;
	float		back_top;
	float		back_bottom;
	float		range;
	float		lowfloor;
	sec_plane_t	*floor;
	sec_plane_t	*ceiling;
	float		back_lowfloor;
	sec_plane_t	*back_floor;
	sec_plane_t	*back_ceiling;
	opening_t	*next;
};
Also modified SV_LineOpenings method in the engine to initialize the new structure, I'll send these changes to Janis and see what he says <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:27:45

Crimson Wizard

I don't think back_top, back_bottom and back_lowfloor are necessary, only those 2 are needed actually:
 sec_plane_t   *back_floor;
   sec_plane_t   *back_ceiling;
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:39:04

Firebrand

OK then, I'll remove the unneeded ones then <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:00:28

RambOrc

Current version looks very very good, I'd say we can release it for Xmas. I've started work on the PDF manual, should be done with it in time. Is there anything that needs to be pre-rendered for the final 1.0 release like the slower version of the glvis rendering or whatever?
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:07:55

Firebrand

No, I've made sure to build complete GlVIS for all the KA maps, so they should be running as fast as it's possible with the current version <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I would like to note that I won't be around on XMAS eve, I'm going on a family trip to Queretaro on the 23rd, and I'll be back around 26th, so I guess the release would have to be before that, unless you want me to upload everything and CW or someone else could build the release and upload it to SF.net <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:28:50

Crimson Wizard

I will not add Cathedral map to this release yet, becuase it still needs some fixing. By the way, Gargoyle Forest must be removed from the game at once (it's still there)! I want to fix something in code but I hope will finish yesterday (that is 22 december). And I do not know how to upload stuff to SF.net.
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:23:51

RambOrc

It does not have to be exactly xmas, a few days or week(s) don't really matter IMO, the point is that we are pretty much ready for official release. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:52:38

Firebrand

If it's ready on 22th (no matter how late <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), I'll do the release, if it's not, we can then wait for properly fixing stuff.
Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:22:57

Crimson Wizard

It looks like I will not be able to fix what I wanted any time soon <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> well, I shall explain what I mean later. So, I suppose we may make a release. Anyway, we can make patches afterwards. EDIT: an please make sure there's no Gargoyle's Forest map. And no your config. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:23:03

Firebrand

Latest internal release, please give it a quick run and give me green lights to make the release <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. I've fixed a good number of problem with wad lumps and alligment of stuff, please test it out.
Sun, 31 May 2009 16:16:49

Firebrand

Uploaded a new internal test version, you can find it here: [url:2uf7a0hc]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20090531.zip
Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:12:48

Firebrand

I've committed code for detection of floor slopes to bot AI, also applied some more constants for bots too.
Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:19:21

Crimson Wizard

Hmm, I actually have a question about some changes there:
// [FB] Item is in range
if (Length(botmo.Origin - ITarget.Origin) <= EntityEx::MELEERANGE)
{
	if (!player.IsOKToPickupItem(Inventory(ITarget)))
	{
		// [FB] We can't actually pick up this
		ITarget = none;
		return;
	}
}
So, why should he check this only if item is in range? What if item is really far away, like 1024.0 units or so and thus happened he cannot pick it up right now, so bot should run all the way only to know that he cannot pick it up?
Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:59:38

Firebrand

Fixed that problem <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I've also added checks for detection of sloped ceilings to bots <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:42:48

Crimson Wizard

Will you add this new slope detection code to KRPG as well, please. It shares same method with KA.
Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:44:32

Firebrand

Sure, it's just a matter of copy and pasting the code <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Sun, 21 Jun 2009 10:16:01

Crimson Wizard

Okay, I am back <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> On vacations I was working primarily on new bot ai, but it is very raw yet and I will not upload it to SVN; I shall post some comments to corresponding thread later, maybe. However, I also did some fixes to other parts of game and added few features as well. But firstly, I want to ask one question regarding changes Firebrand made in code; unfortunately I couldn't ask before I went to vacations. I noticed that you made bot ai constant MAXMOVEHEIGHT = MAXSTEPHEIGHT + MAXJUMPHEIGHT. Are you sure this is right? I thought that when player jumps a maximal height he may reach is determined only by jump height, and his step height does not play any role then. Now, regarding important changes I made. 1. I created new type of menu option that wraps the text of value, and inserted the one instead old Level option in the New Game menu. This fixes the text clipping for long level names (currently "Cathedral of the Damned" has one). 2. Two new server options: - Initial Invulnerability time selection (default 5.0 s) - Weapons Stay option (default off). 3. Random Powerup item. It is put anywhere on the map as any other item and respawns as a random powerup each time after being picked up. Items it may represent are: Invisibility, Boots of Speed, PI Damage, Dragonskin Bracers (full armor), Krater of Might (full mana), Urn (full health). 4. Random Weapon pickups. They work same as random powerup, being respawned each time as a new item chosen at random from the allowed range. Items are: - Random Weapon. Spawns as 3-8th class weapon. - Random Weapon of 3-5 Class - Random Weapon of 6-8 Class - Random Weapon of 3-7 Class - Random Blue Mana Weapon (actually spawns always as 5th class weapon, because other blue mana weapon is 2nd class and is given initially) - Random Green Mana Weapon - Random Red Mana Weapon - Random Fire Damage Weapon - this is interesting case, this item gives player a random weapon with fire damage suitable for his/her player class. Item could be useful for Xmas Havoc maps.
Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:40:27

Firebrand

Nice ideas! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for fixing the max height constant value, you are right, I didn't thought on it when changing it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:21:18

RambOrc

LOL the maxmoveheight thing was obvious even to me. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> If you can step up say 24 units max and jump up max 64 units, if you add the two as max height difference a bot thinks he can traverse, he will be stuck at every place that has a height increase in the path between 65 and 88 units. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Random powerup is a cool idea, not so sure about random weapons, except the fire one which could be put in front of every player spawn location on havoc maps.
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:08:15

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":2yfdrb5v]LOL the maxmoveheight thing was obvious even to me. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> If you can step up say 24 units max and jump up max 64 units, if you add the two as max height difference a bot thinks he can traverse, he will be stuck at every place that has a height increase in the path between 65 and 88 units. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Ok, my mistake... let it go already! <!-- sorcpoursuite --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpoursuite.gif" alt="orcpoursuite" title="orcpoursuite" /><!-- sorcpoursuite --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught2.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:30:17

RambOrc

<!-- sorcboulet --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcboulet.gif" alt="orcboulet" title="orcboulet" /><!-- sorcboulet --> <!-- sorcsort --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcsort.gif" alt="orcsort" title="orcsort" /><!-- sorcsort --> <!-- sorcgayflag --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcgayflag.gif" alt="orcgayflag" title="orcgayflag" /><!-- sorcgayflag -->
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:53:57

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3bt8u4lu]orcboulet <!-- sorcsort --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcsort.gif" alt="orcsort" title="orcsort" /><!-- sorcsort --> I always wanted to know, what those "BOULET" and "DESORS" sings mean? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I can only guess this is something in french maybe.
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:37:20

RambOrc

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wordreference.com/fren/boulet">http://www.wordreference.com/fren/boulet</a><!-- m --> probably meant in a vulgar way like "balls", no idea. De sors I think means "of sorts" but not sure. You could ask someone who has French as a mother tongue.
Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:23:14

Crimson Wizard

By the way, did anyone notice that in KA player cannot die from falling down?
Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:11:27

Firebrand

Is there any feasible way to test this on the current version?
Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:21:41

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2qa0u8z8]Is there any feasible way to test this on the current version? Umm... make a small map with > 1024 height drop.
Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:19:41

Crimson Wizard

Another thing. Invulnerability powerup was removed from KA, however there is one on Malevolence DM map. So question is - should we restore this artifact or not? If not, such items should be removed from maps.
Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:22:49

RambOrc

Maybe I already asked this in the past and it was already answered, but why was the powerup removed?
Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:22:43

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3434wxi4]Maybe I already asked this in the past and it was already answered, but why was the powerup removed? I would like to know that myself <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I even did not notice when and how that happened.
Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:25:58

Firebrand

I don't remember any discussion or proposition about that, also, I don't think there's any reasons to remove the artifact... so I guess it was a mistake on the code and it should be put back <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:28:11

Firebrand

Got the latest SVN revision, I'll test it out today <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I've already committed small fixes for the code <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Good work! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:05:33

Firebrand

I've uploaded a new internal version, it has the latest bug fixes, the new survival game mode with monsters and bosses from heretic <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Test it out and give comments on it! Some bugs I found on survival: [list:3rgr5rgn]- In small maps with few deathmatch starts, spawned monsters get stuck on previously spawned monsters, I fixed this by making monsters telefrag objects when spawned, but it's not the best solution IMO. - Float bobbing things spawned on 3d floors sometimes are spawned 'inside' the 3d floors, the same thing happens to monsters on survival (Frankly, I don't know what the hell is wrong there). - Sometimes it seems that the game expects 1 extra monster from the spawned ones, thus making the game get stuck in certain waves, I've checked the code, but I'm not sure what's wrong.[/list:u:3rgr5rgn]
Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:24:54

Crimson Wizard

Hey, you forgot to give direct link again! <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/KoraxArena/KArena_20090708.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 090708.zip</a><!-- m --> Thanks for update! [quote="Firebrand":1yuxx2st]In small maps with few deathmatch starts, spawned monsters get stuck on previously spawned monsters, I fixed this by making monsters telefrag objects when spawned, but it's not the best solution IMO. I was thinking about spawning monsters at Path Nodes along with deathmatch starts. This will not only solve the problem but also will make game more thrilling since player won't be able to predict where they appear. Apart from that, we may use a counter that will iterate through all available start spots, so that monsters appear each time on the next start. [quote="Firebrand":1yuxx2st]- Sometimes it seems that the game expects 1 extra monster from the spawned ones, thus making the game get stuck in certain waves, I've checked the code, but I'm not sure what's wrong. I have a feeling that this may come from this line:
CountToSpawnBosses = Wave / (8 - PlayerCount - 1)
If PlayerCount = 8 and Wave = 1 this expression will result in -1. Try making
CountToSpawnBosses = Wave / (8 - PlayerCount + 1)
instead. EDIT: actually I submitted this. Even if it wasn't the real or only cause, it could lead to some mistakes. Also, I don't like the monster table much, in my opinion it makes some stronger monsters appear before weaker ones. It looks like you tend more to place Heretic monsters before Hexen ones, which is not always right; for instance some Heretic ones are faster than Hexen's (Heretic seem to be more dynamic game in general). We should check health/damage stats more precisely to make proper table. And where are Ettins, by the way? they must be number 1 (or rather 0) monster in that table! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:19:43

Firebrand

I've tweaked the monster list, let me know how it works now. Also, I found that when using an extremely high wave number (26), the lists are going out of the array index, I'll check this bug tomorrow, today I'm tired of coding and testing this <!-- sorcdodo --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdodo.gif" alt="orcdodo" title="orcdodo" /><!-- sorcdodo --> .
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:21:17

Crimson Wizard

Okay, I'll check all this. When I tried last time there were 3 obvious problems: 1. Iron Lich sprites were missing, all of them. 2. Telestomping by monsters is not a good idea for the game mode where you canot respawn until all monsters are dead. <!-- sorccensured --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccensured.gif" alt="orccensured" title="orccensured" /><!-- sorccensured --> 3. Bots really suck... maybe they cannot fight monster properly, because of some flaws in AI. Plus, as I mentioned, vertical targeting (pitch?) works wrong. Also, Firebrand, let us not update every single change to SVN unless it is something really important <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I suggest maybe exchange this Survival code by putting it to KDEV until we have it balanced. EDIT: monster table is not very good again. Gargoyles are put after nitro golems for some reason, even after Ghost ones (which are invulnerable to some weapons btw). Hmm... and EttinMash class seems to be completely unkillable for some reason.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:19:49

Firebrand

EttinMash has a problem with death frames (which I fixed on my end, but I haven't committed the change yet <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). As for monsters order, I don't know yet how to balance it in a good way, I think we need to balance the monsters on the order they appear in the game they come from, there's no better balance IMO <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:01:30

RambOrc

Or simply list the monsters here and I will give you an order of difficulty. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:39:34

Crimson Wizard

monsters: [list:2rzqdhu8] Ettin; Heretic Mummy; Heretic Mummy Leader Heretic Mummy Ghost Heretic Mummy Leader Ghost Ettin Mash (ghost-Ettin) Heretic Gargoyle Heretic Gargoyle Leader Centaur Sabreclaw Heretic Undead Knight Ophidian Chaos Serpent Green Chaos Serpent Brown Centaur Mash Chaos Serpent Green Mash Chaos Serpent Brown Mash Wendigo Centaur Leader Undead Knight Ghost Weredragon Afrit Disciple of D'Sparil Dark Bishop Reiver [/list:u:2rzqdhu8] bosses: [list:2rzqdhu8]Dragon Iron Lich Minotaur D'Sparil Heresiarch Korax [/list:u:2rzqdhu8] BTW, I am going to stop messing with his for a while and will switch to improving AI (both KA & KRPG one); I have some ideas to implement.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:55:48

Firebrand

I fixed the problem with the Iron Lich sprites (they need to be renamed internally with sprite_rename.txt). I've also fixed the bot's pitching, but I would like to further test this fix before committing <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:03:28

RambOrc

Here you go, put into 4 groups and sorted by increasing difficulty within the group as well. I also added the weredragon ghost form, if there is no such thing just remove it from group D and decrese the ID of the others by one. A 1 Heretic Mummy 2 Ettin 3 Heretic Gargoyle B 1 Heretic Mummy Ghost 2 Ettin Mash (ghost-Ettin) 3 Sabreclaw 4 Centaur C 1 Centaur Mash 2 Weredragon 3 Chaos Serpent Green 4 Heretic Undead Knight 5 Heretic Mummy Leader 6 Ophidian 7 Chaos Serpent Brown 8 Afrit 9 Heretic Gargoyle Leader D 1 Weredragon Mash 2 Chaos Serpent Green Mash 3 Undead Knight Ghost 4 Heretic Mummy Leader Ghost 5 Chaos Serpent Brown Mash 6 Wendigo 7 Centaur Leader 8 Disciple of D'Sparil 9 Dark Bishop 10 Reiver E 1 Iron Lich 2 Maulotaur 3 Heresiarch 4 Dragon (provided it has good AI, not just that of an afrit as Camper once did for funsies) I would skip the end bosses of both games.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:19:49

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2geesqsc]I also added the weredragon ghost form, if there is no such thing just remove it I noticed that weredragon ghost is mentioned in Heretic manual and also on ravegames.com Heretic bestoary someone's (yours?) comment sais that he never seen one <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> In fact there's no such thing in code, it's true, so it is manual writers mistake perhaps. But we may add one easily if needed.
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:15:11

Col.J.P.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":cc4v425u][quote="RambOrc":cc4v425u]I also added the weredragon ghost form, if there is no such thing just remove it I noticed that weredragon ghost is mentioned in Heretic manual and also on ravegames.com Heretic bestoary someone's (yours?) comment sais that he never seen one <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> In fact there's no such thing in code, it's true, so it is manual writers mistake perhaps. But we may add one easily if needed. I played heretic several times never even heard of a weredragon ghost!!! how can you add one? another thing, I'm on Vista for the summer due to laptop driver limitations, and: a) can't download anything from here (need a hand, no idea how to solve this!) "You need authorization to access this web resource, ask the webmaster." b) can't run Vavoom...(program stops working, windows looking for a solution...!...forever...)
Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:29:30

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Col.J.P.":11l3fo8l] another thing, I'm on Vista for the summer due to laptop driver limitations, and: ... b) can't run Vavoom...(program stops working, windows looking for a solution...!...forever...) I am running Vavoom on Vista for about 2.5 years already and never had any problems with engine itself (aside from infamous Alt+Tab glitch, but that's probably common for all Windows versions). It is more likely some common error happens in game and Vista just shows that standart Close app/Look for solution message window. If you run using kalauncher.exe, check Debug and Devmode checkboxes, then, after game crashes, look into basev/debug.txt, maybe there will be some useful information about error (usually in the end of log).
Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:47:43

Firebrand

I've fixed several bugs on KA today <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, also updated survival to match the monsters list that Ramborc made, the game now feels balanced IMO, I made it to wave 18 but chaos serpents overwhelmed me <!-- s#-o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_doh.gif" alt="#-o" title="d'oh!" /><!-- s#-o --> <!-- sorclaught1 --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught1.gif" alt="orclaught1" title="orclaught1" /><!-- sorclaught1 --> . I fixed the problem with bots pitching angles, solved the problem of items being spawned inside 3d floors (finally) and some other stuff. As for the problem with Vavoom and vista, the only bug I've found comes from bugged sound drivers, vista changed the way midi synthesizers work and apparently something about that doesn't works fine with Vavoom, try muting the music from the Vavoom engine launcher to see if it works <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:00:31

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":kz5m2ja1]solved the problem of items being spawned inside 3d floors (finally) On DM map "Malevolence" there are 2 green mana cubes stuck in the flat transparent 3dfloors. EDIT: oops, missed some new code, nevermind <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Just a small notice, I removed bMissile flag from FireBallMissile, because it is a child of KarenaSeekerMissile which already has bMissile flag.
Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:30:08

Firebrand

Yes, didn't noticed that, sorry <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> .
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:10:19

Firebrand

I'm fixing most of the bugs reported on the bugs.txt document, once I'm done with that I might begin the new rebalance of weapons for KA (hope not to screw up anything), instead of committing my changes I'll upload the new source files so we can test everything without screwing the source files <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:25:15

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1w2jvknz]instead of committing my changes I'll upload the new source files so we can test everything without screwing the source files <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Better copy old files into separate folder, like "backup". If you upload new files for each weapon, it will be a real mess.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:46:01

Crimson Wizard

I was able to track down bug that caused Survival stuck. It appears that boosted monsters had too high speed (there was algebraic mistake in formula) and for some reason, that I cannot fully comprehend, engine did counted them as spawned but could not count them as dead when they were killed. Also, they just did not move - at all, were stuck on one place playing movement animation. So I fixed their speed and now everything is okay, I managed to get to nearly 18th wave, but exploded myself with rocket <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Few extra notes: - Some Heretic monsters drop pickups; e.g. Weredragons drop "lesser runes". These pickups are invisible but still gatherable. This should be fixed. - For some reason Hexen Fire Gargoyle are weaker than Heretic's ones. Last are much more aggresive, fast-moving and fast-shooting. Maybe some AI tweaking needed for Hexen's ones.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:24:05

RambOrc

1) No drops from monsters in KA (only in KMOD/KRPG). 2) Afrit is between normal and leader version of Heretic gargoyle, it is supposed to be weaker than gargoyle leader.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:45:51

Firebrand

This is the only thing I consider a problem by using monsters between games <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I'll try to fix this ASAP. Today I have a difficult exam on school, so I won't fix anything until tomorrow, so be patient with that <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:36:35

Crimson Wizard

I want to change Ettin/Centaur/Serpent mashes to ghost types, like Heretic ones. Do not like how "mashes" dissapear without leaving no corpse. Also added Weredragon ghost. Any objections?
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:49:31

RambOrc

Yes I object to every single change you propose. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:44:20

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":ixn7bbhq]Yes I object to every single change you propose. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Umm...?
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:19:15

Firebrand

He's obviously kidding CW <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I don't see any problems about that myself (always going contrary on what Ramborc says <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:23:29

Crimson Wizard

Hehehe, behold the monster superpower [img:2gtbn0i9]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/karena/shots/giantgarg.jpg[/img:2gtbn0i9] I made a very low chance of spawning a giant version of monster with 2500+ % health (!). <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:47:13

Firebrand

LOL, that's funny.
Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:16:12

Crimson Wizard

I wanted to make another internal build, but I still have bug with invisible Iron Lich, although I added those changes to sprite_rename.txt. I checked how this is done in Heretic progs, and cannot find any difference. So I just do not know what's the reason of this. I'll keep trying though.
Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:43:26

Firebrand

I really don't know if it works because of the stuck bug in survival, but now that we can select the wave number to start in I'll test it out and fix it for sure <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:47:13

Firebrand

[quote="Vavoom's debut.txt":2sf4rjm1]ERROR: Script error, "decorate" line 7: Lump actors/karena/netmatch.txt not found <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:10:04

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2liln962]I really don't know if it works because of the stuck bug in survival, but now that we can select the wave number to start in I'll test it out and fix it for sure <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. I fixed the stuck already; and by the way you can simply put the Lich on map to test that. For me, engine sais that "Frames not found".
Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:24:36

Firebrand

Yep, apparently sprite_rename only works on WAD files and no PK3 files (or something because if I use HEAD instead of LICH in sprites they work fine). Anyway, I fixed the issue with Iron Lich, added Minotaur boss and other small fixes to the code repository. I'll make a new internal release sometime during the weekend.
Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:16:31

Firebrand

Uploaded a new internal build, as promised <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, you can find it here: [url:3f0sa0jb]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/KoraxArena/KArena_20090719.zip Enjoy! Also, test Survival game mode and post any problems you find. @CW: Please test the game to see if I solved the crash in SlideMove <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Balanced weapons aren't there yet, I'll work on that during the next week <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I've implemented several flags depicting weapon features and I'll build a method to calculate factors that will be used to give values to weapon features as we discussed, as soon as it is working, I'll upload the source files to KDev.
Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:28:24

Crimson Wizard

Catwalk is still there.
Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:43:24

RambOrc

Fight! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:30:26

Firebrand

[quote="Crimson Wizard":3to5pakq]Catwalk is still there. Yes, because this is an internal release <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I've got the first weapon balance code incarnation <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, you can find the modified source files here: [url:3to5pakq]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/KoraxArena/Weapon_balance_source_test.zip Let me know what you think of it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:26:52

Crimson Wizard

I reviewed that quickly, I have two things to say. First of all I have doubts about calculating all that right in the code; I actually thought this will be calculated externally, "on paper", and then actual mana/damage values inserted in the code. This would also allow some freedom in getting final values (we may add/decrease some points to damage if needed regardless of what formula say). Secondly, the way damage is calculated is completely wrong, at least in the context of what I proposed. You made some damage constant be affected by weight factor, but I proposed it be created by weight factor value as a difference between limit and weight base (as described in corresponding thread). I suggest maybe setup these forumals in electronic table and get basic weight values (the ones that does not include damage and mana). Then it will be easier to get damage / mana cost values that fit the limit.
Mon, 20 Jul 2009 22:28:35

RambOrc

I am with CW on this one.
Mon, 20 Jul 2009 23:05:10

Crimson Wizard

The advantages of using electronic table are: 1) We will have the final values in user-friendly way, that is we will see them immediately as we put in new weapon values or make changes to old values, and also everyone will know them ,not only those who can read the code. 2) We will be able to review all the weapons at one glance, and easily compare them. These 2 advantages also result in 3rd advantage: it will be MUCH easier to balance and fix our values. As for getting damage and mana cost. What I proposed earlier, is to make damage and mana cost members of a long summary formula, a formula where *weights* of weapon properties are summed. In the code posted there I can see some complicated calculations involving percents (division on 100). Second thing. The formulas implemented in that code assume that damage has linear dependence on other weights. But if we decide in future that it shouldn't be linear, these formulas won't work. For example, we may make 10 damage equal 1 "weight" unit, 20 damage equal 2 weight units, etc. But on the other hand we may decide that 10 damage should equal to 1 weight, while 20 damage should equal to 4 weight units already. I suggest make following. Take electronic table, and make properties be in different columns. Final column should be a result, that summs the weights. Thus we may change contents of each column and see how summ changes. Then make sure that summ stays on needed level.
Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:21:09

Firebrand

Ok, I've got the calculated values in the source code written on paper on my end, if you want, I can add these values to the weapon table I made, so that we can balance them. Curiously enough, values aren't THAT unbalanced: [list:1soigue9]- first level weapons: 31-32 - second level weapons: 48-51 - third level weapons: 70-78 - fourth level weapons: 92-105 - fifth level weapons: 111-119 - sixth level weapons: 134-150 - seventh level weapons: 151-159 - eighth level weapons: 176-184[/list:u:1soigue9] This gave me the conclusion that conceptually weapons aren't unbalanced, the problem comes from the way damage is calculated in-game, so it's a thing of balancing it, applying some tweaking to the formula I proposed in code the damage values are greatly improved (if a bit short perhaps) inside the game. After applying this formula in game, mana values were too high for the damage weapons dealt <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> , so great work on this is needed (again) <!-- sorccrazy2 --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccrazy2.gif" alt="orccrazy2" title="orccrazy2" /><!-- sorccrazy2 --> .
Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:24:02

RambOrc

Weapons shouldn't be completely unbalanced and without system since there already was a detailed weapon table, the one I wrote in the early days of KA, which listed nearly all weapons of the classes, including their damage type and damage done.
Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:29:13

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":25d65fjc]Curiously enough, values aren't THAT unbalanced: Man, these values tell me nothing about actual balance. Balance between different levels is ok, but what about balance inside each level group, and between different weapons? For instance 7th level Plassma Rifle may do less damage with each hit than 6th level Rocket Launcher, but since it is shooting faster it will be more powerful in general. [quote="Firebrand":25d65fjc] This gave me the conclusion that conceptually weapons aren't unbalanced, the problem comes from the way damage is calculated in-game, so it's a thing of balancing it, applying some tweaking to the formula I proposed in code the damage values are greatly improved (if a bit short perhaps) inside the game. After applying this formula in game, mana values were too high for the damage weapons dealt <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> , so great work on this is needed (again) <!-- sorccrazy2 --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccrazy2.gif" alt="orccrazy2" title="orccrazy2" /><!-- sorccrazy2 --> . Uh, let's make an electronic table with forumals inside and make all tweakings and experiements there first. Applying all that stuff in code could be messy, assuming it would be difficult to calculate new values everytime, leave alone tell them to others. Also, we must remember that player grows in level and his power increases. We should make sure it won't increase too fast, because in this case damage will overgrow player health much. Take 7-8th level weapons in your example up there, they already do damage enough to kill player with one shot.
Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:31:33

Firebrand

I'm working on the table as I type this, I've got almost all the cleric weapons done, the formulas were a pain in the back <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->, but they only need to be done once <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Once it's complete I'll post it here.
Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:19:44

Crimson Wizard

Perhaps you may upload it with what you've done already. Unfortunately I am not skilled much with making forumals in these tables, I only remember how to make simple dependanced between cells. I wonder if you can make a formula applied to whole bunch of cells at once.
Wed, 22 Jul 2009 12:17:28

Firebrand

Not to a bunch of cells, but to one cell in the same row, then you can copy them and paste them making formulas to respect the same cell row <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, this makes it simplier to copy and paste the same table for every weapon <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I had problems remembering how to use IF operations with multiple conditions, but a quick check to the online help fixed the problem <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I've uploaded my progress to: [url:3r428era]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/weapon%20table.ods Let me know if something doesn't looks good and I'll fix it.
Wed, 22 Jul 2009 13:40:04

Crimson Wizard

Hmm... that's absolutely not what I've expected... looks way too messy. Maybe there could be another way to origanise the table? Also, why do you add weapon level to this summ? Weapon level weight should not be summed IMO, it should be used purely informative, as a limit of the summ. And, why Ice and Fire damages add extra weight? They do not make weapons more powerful at all, they have purely cosmetic effect. I am actually thinking about trying to make a database file for this. There's a chance that using queries and multiple tables (each table for each factor) may give more convenient result. I don't know if you can do this in electronic table...
Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:49:51

Firebrand

AFAIK you can make different tables in different worksheets and 'link' the data between them, but I'm not very sure how to do it, I prefer the method I'm using now, we would only need to make cosmetic changes and balance the formulas used there, I'll fix the problems of this table and re-upload them again. I don't see the messy part of the table, each class will have a different worksheet, if what you don't want is to scroll down, we could organize a method of showing one weapon values at a time by a drop down menu <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:49:55

Firebrand

I've got a complete version of the weapon balance factors, here: [url:3bhgqft0]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/weapon%20table.ods [url:3bhgqft0]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/weapon%20table.xls I would like to ask CW, with these values, which would be a good method for balancing weapon damage?
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:28:39

Crimson Wizard

I must say, I do not understand how this works ... all I see is tables with some values put in in the left column and some formula written in the right column. When I change any value in the left column nothing happens, no change occurs to the summ, or whatever.
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:17:43

Firebrand

Nothing changes? It should... I don't know what could be wrong, I made the formulas using M$ excel, my only guess is that maybe (if you are) using Open Office might not be compatible with changing the formulas. Anyway, I've uploaded a XLS file for it and another ODS, since I fixed a small mistake in my formula for number of shots. I think all explains what it means <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, anyway I'll describe all here: [list:223p7tgv]- Weapon Level: It means the weapon slot <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. According to CW factors list it should be multiplied by 20. - (Re)Fire Rate: It means how many game tics will pass before the weapon shots again. According to CW's factors list, weapons are divided in: [list:223p7tgv]* charging (35-50 tics and more) * slow (~20-30 tics) * fast (~10-15 tics) * repeating (5 tics and less)[/list:u:223p7tgv] - Number of Shots: Pretty self explanatory <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->. CW's list said that every shot should be summed to the final factor, and that there were two special kinds of weapons, those that increase shot number according to level from 1 to 4, and those that increase number of shots according to level from 4 to 9, each of them has a different weight. - Weapon Type: There are basically 3 types of weapons: [list:223p7tgv]* Projectile: A projectile weapon has always a weight of 6, depending on their extra properties they will have additional weight. * Melee: They always have a weight of 1, according to their extra features, they will have additional weight. * Hit Scan: They always have a weight of 10, according to extra features, their weight can change.[/list:u:223p7tgv] The weapon types in the list act as 'flags' they only need to be marked (with an 'x') in the table and the weight will be added automatically to the factor sum. - Spreading Type: Depicts if the weapon shots multiple spread projectiles or projectiles that when exploding spawn extra projectiles, depending on how much spread they have (normal spread or mass spread). - Explosion Type: Exploding weapons always have a weight of 3, depending of extra parameters their weight can differ. This works similarly to the weapon type (they work as flags), marking them with an 'x' will add their weights to the factor sum. - Damage Type: Only poison and darkness have effects here. They work as weapon type and explosion type. - Damage Amount: This one has to be calculated accordingly to the source. The projectiles spawned by all weapons have a damage property, this one should be taken for calculating this.[/list:u:223p7tgv] Hope this makes it more clear how the table works <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, let me know if there is any other problem with it.
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:02:42

Crimson Wizard

Well, XLS works as expected. This means Excel functions does not properly exported to ODS. I added extra Spread parameter to balance sheet I made earlier, but forgot to mention, it is "Circle" (used by Ripper weapon). But better check file again, maybe there were some other changes that I just don't recall. There's a huge task to calibrate factor weights; the ones that were in my table are merely examples. Damage weight should be changed ofc, it grows a way too slow. Also, I yet don't know what would be most proper way to define second charge of missiles, like Ripper's.
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:47:25

Firebrand

I would define them as an extra projectile type, maybe with a bigger weight, since they can hit multiple targets in one shot <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for balancing the weights, I'm thinking the same after watching the final numbers, our weights are too small now IMO. The problem with this way of balancing (again), is that it needs lots of testing under different circumstances, since the player can level up, what we define as an acceptable range of damage for level 1 could become huge when on level 10 <!-- s:-s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /><!-- s:-s --> . If you feel like modifying anything on the table, feel free to do it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, just post or upload your modifications to KDev or here in the forum, so that we all can test the same values <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:07:17

Crimson Wizard

Ok, but can you also revert your changes to weapons in KA SVN? I think that is too early to change weapon code anyway.
Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:44:39

Firebrand

Reverted my changes in the SVN repository.
Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:17:45

Firebrand

I'm slowly working on balance of weapons, I made damage factors to increase faster (every 5 units increment adds 10 to the factor). This made weapon factors to show how the weapons work in game, stronger weapons (those that killed players in one shot) seem to have higher factors that other weapons, so I consider this to be similar to how things work in game. I also began working on lowering weapon damage by half (I know it might not be right, but I would like to test it ingame), weapon damage as it is shown in the table is how much damage weapons will do at level 1 (I did check this with the source, so it's right). I multiplied projectiles damage by 8 and ripper damage by 5 to determine the highest damage weapons can do, some weapons do above 200 damage points, which in level 1 is too much IMO.
Sat, 25 Jul 2009 19:15:53

Crimson Wizard

I occasionally stumbled upon mistake in CanReach when testing monster AI in KRPG; it was related to checking if target is lower than bot/monster: it was
else if (TargetEntity.Origin.z < CRTRData.finalPos.z)
{
	dist = CRTRData.finalPos.z - (TargetEntity.Origin.z + TargetEntity.Height);
it should actually be:
else if (TargetEntity.Origin.z < CRTRData.finalPos.z)
{
	dist = CRTRData.finalPos.z - TargetEntity.Origin.z + TargetEntity.Height;
because target's height "brings target closer" (if I may say so) to a bot standing above. With the old code monsters always thought that player is somewhere beneath the ground. I commited the changes, and wonder if fixing this will enhance bot behavior a bit. I never noticed they couldn't reach target which is on same level with them, but maybe there were still some problems our eye just couldn't catch.
Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:36:29

Firebrand

I'll do the update for bot's code and test it out <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I've uploaded new versions of the weapons damage tables: [url:3grxqffs]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/weapon%20table.ods [url:3grxqffs]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/weapon%20table.xls I used low damage values for all the weapons, the damage value shown there is the damage weapons do when player is level 1, when increasing a level the player increases stats to 12.5, this can be used to determine the new damage weapons will have on level 2 and from there to the next levels <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Let me know what you think of this.
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:31:51

Firebrand

I keep working on the weapons balance, I've added some cool short range projectiles for both hero's swords, they deal little damage, just to make him stand against all the long range weapons, I also removed the differences between levels from magical projectiles weapons of this class too. I'm still not very happy with the results of the balance, I feel some weapons aren't useful in most situations, I don't know, maybe it's just me, this needs extra testing from other team members IMO <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. The bots behave a lot better with the fixes of the CanReach method <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, now they can hit monsters with melee weapons (which they didn't do before, or at least not much...). I would like to know, how do you think I should submit my changes? directly to the SVN or uploading them to KDEV, I find the second method a bit difficult because it's a big number of files from weapons and projectiles, both in progs source and in DECORATE, so the ZIP file would require certain directory structure kept, but if you want, I can submit it this way.
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:58:55

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1ljk6uke] The bots behave a lot better with the fixes of the CanReach method <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, now they can hit monsters with melee weapons (which they didn't do before, or at least not much...). It's really cool to hear that. [quote="Firebrand":1ljk6uke]I would like to know, how do you think I should submit my changes? directly to the SVN or uploading them to KDEV, I find the second method a bit difficult because it's a big number of files from weapons and projectiles, both in progs source and in DECORATE, so the ZIP file would require certain directory structure kept, but if you want, I can submit it this way. What changes are you speaking about? If you want to add these balancing functions to weapons again, I've already said that's not very good idea IMO. If you are speaking of just changing damage values and similar properties, then I suppose it would be ok to simply comment old ones.
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:36:46

Firebrand

I'm speaking only of new damage values, I can submit the weapons balance tables again and you could try the new damage values, I would only submit the code that makes witchaven's small and long sword shot projectiles.
Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:56:04

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3vo6doee]I'm speaking only of new damage values, I can submit the weapons balance tables again and you could try the new damage values, I would only submit the code that makes witchaven's small and long sword shot projectiles. You can always put the new code in #ifdef / #endif block, inventing some new macro, like NEW_WEAPONS or whatever. This will allow to compile both old and new code simply enabling or disabling that macro when needed.
Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:19:05

Crimson Wizard

I tested KA build 20090719 a bit, and found a strange behavior; it looks like Mage's Bloodscourge don't autoaims at monsters. Don't remember how was it earlier, but ofc in Hexen it did. Did someone made this or it is a bug? Also, is there just anything else to be done to KA, except for weapon balance? Maybe we should think about releasing new public version soon.
Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:42:11

Firebrand

I need to finish the river of fire map, I'll get to this today. As for the bloodscourge, I don't know what happened, I see that there are two different projectiles for it (MageStaffFX2<- DECORATE and MageStaffFX22 <- NON DECORATE), also, I see that one inherits from the original Hexen projectiles and the other from the new KA tracer missile. EDIT: Fixed the above problem, now there's only KArenaMageStaffFX2, but this problem seems like a bug to me, if I delete the SearchBlocks variable (with a value of 10) it works fine...
Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:28:40

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1idoji5d] EDIT: Fixed the above problem, now there's only KArenaMageStaffFX2 In fact, the decorate one should be removed. In common progs MageStaffFX2 is declared in progs, not in decorate. MageStaffFX22 class was created to substitute that one. EDIT: There's perhaps something wrong in MissileFindEnemy method. EDIT2: Owww, blast, and also something wrong in GameSurvival class <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> I'll fix this.
Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:02:47

Firebrand

OK, I've uploaded a new internal version: [url:2flkwuo1]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/KoraxArena/KArena_20090831.zip I added the maps you said were missing after re-compiling their scripts with the latest karena.acs file, I didn't have enough time to test them, also fixed some more sprites here and there with only the witchaven weapons missing and some menu graphics.
Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:29:37

Crimson Wizard

Looks like marine sprites are fully translated now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I found that Domination Sigil sprites are missing offsets. They should have grab point approximately at their centre, but it looks like now it is at the centre-bottom.
Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:22:19

Firebrand

I think I know where the problem is, I'll fix it for the next one <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 04 Sep 2009 00:22:40

Firebrand

OK, I've been working on revamping maps now, I'm almost done with the revamped DM_08 (Lethe's Castle), I like how it's coming along, there are some things left I would like to fix and change, but so far progress has been steady <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Also, I've managed to complete fixing of all the sprites that had cyan pixels, now they should look correctly (even HUD and menu graphics were having this problem), let me know if you spot something I missed <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Oh, I almost forget, you can find the build here: [url:27bhkhve]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/KoraxArena/KArena_20090903.zip

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