Korax Arena adjustments

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Korax Arena adjustments

Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:58:05

mago

I was play-testing Korax Arena as best as my pc could render it <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> and came up with some problems, most have alredy been mentioned before, but I thought it would be much easier for Firebrand or another programmer to have a thread where they could easily browse the little and annoying things to "tune" (by the way, great work so far!!!). I'm making this a sticky, as the subjects become obsolete, it will eventually loose it's status. Well, my first observations (will try to be to the point): [size=150:1zy2jjo2]Bot behaviour[/size:1zy2jjo2] - 22/8/06= As mentioned before, Bots do tend to walk around the limit of the sectors, and when there are angles or short passages (like below a ramp) they eventually get stuck. They do however get stuck on plain surfaces also (not just corners), but it's rare, they seem to want to go to an area but the wall is on the way and they don't recognize they are not moving. As for corners, the bots seem able to make complex turns and enter small corridors and get out easily, but then get stuck on open areas' corners, and they tend to be specific places, not just any corner. [img:1zy2jjo2]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/KArena/shot0000.jpg[/img:1zy2jjo2] Notice the body: this is the corner of death as I call it, in Agony, they get stuck here helpless and I just kill them for the experience (I know it's cheap). - 22/8/06= As far as I could tell, Bots rarely pick up items (ammo and weapons) and never use them (flechete, repulsion). This makes it easy for the player to just collect everything for his own. This also make most bots be confined to low level weapons and run out of ammo pretty fast (but not always, as I have seen Bots with powerfull weapons also). - 22/8/06= Another issue that I observed is that Bots don't really seem to act differently when they are using Melee weapons - they act as if they were ranged, by running from you and attacking from far (even though they could never hurt the player). I have seen some bots trying to hit me from up close, but usually They will flee untill cornered and keep firing, I can only be hit if I get too close. [img:1zy2jjo2]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/KArena/shot0003.jpg[/img:1zy2jjo2] [img:1zy2jjo2]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/KArena/shot0004.jpg[/img:1zy2jjo2] Two bots trying to attack each other from their "stuck" position, but they are using melee weapons so they kept trying untill I killed them coldly. [img:1zy2jjo2]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/KArena/shot0005.jpg[/img:1zy2jjo2] Can't help but wonder what he's thinking, probably "Alright, I surrender, don't shoot me man!" - 22/8/06= Still I can definitly sense the progress Firebrand made, the bots are very skilled when they actually agressively try to kill you, they jump to avoid continuous attacks, circle you and try their best to avoid your attacks while firing their own! Light years ahead of the original Hexen poor AI! Great, great work indeed! Congratulations man. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Weapons balance - 22/8/06= I don't have any stats, so my perceptions might be worng, but I felt the Witchaven guy has some of the most devasting weapons on the magic missiles spell and fireball spell: both are not that expensive, but have great homming capacity, and HUGE damage. You just fire and forget, each shot is a kill. Porbably because I hate the Witchaven guy, I would suggest the magic missiles to still seek, but have the total damage greatly decreased (right now I can almost kill two with a single spell), and probably limit greatly the seeking ability for the fireball, something like the arrow - powerfull but "blind" (you have to aim). - 22/8/06= I felt the Cleric's morning star was the best melee weapon in KArena! Specially on higher levels, the delay is minimal, you just swing away and the damage is brutal. I actually tried to duel the cleric bot with a Quietus, and got my skull crusked (couldn't reach him)! I don't have anything against it, (BTW great criativity and work put on all those weapons!) but I still think the Warrior should have the ultimate melee weapon in Quietus... - 22/8/06= The Flame thrower phoenix rod is indeed different, the stream is very slow paced, and also you can't keep the fire aligned when turning, it's just too light and easily deformed. I would suggest to have a solid, fast stream, with little deformation (proabbly just on the tip) when turning, so the weapon could be more devastating. - 22/8/06= The poison breath is indeed a little too slow, I reckognize it is a great ambush weapon in small places, but is just harmless in big areas, making it a bit too much specialized (not useful on most circunstances). Maybe Ichor's suggestion of making it a stream like the phoenix rod would a good alternative (the Healing spell HUD animation could be used as the one used wouldn't really fit). [size=150:1zy2jjo2]Weapon graphic[/size:1zy2jjo2] Alright I have complained and wined, now things I can actually help. - 22/8/06= I noticed Firebrand had a HUGE work putting all those weapons to work, doing the graphics, setting the stats and assigning them to different players. In this department I can do something, so I'll try to edit some of them to make them more character-specific (like the Warrior's version of the dragon claw); nothing radical, I'm not trying to say I don't like something, or that I could have done better, it' not that at all, just trying to add somthing to Firebrand's work on HUD to make Arena even more unique! Right now I'm working on the Cleric's morning star to make it different from the Witchaven's original. Any suggestion should go here? - 22/8/06= There are some small glitches here and there with some of the weapons animation - the non-man a quietus seem to have the last frame misplaced; the poison spell movement was supposed to go from the SE botton corner directly to the NW top left corner in it's circle, and disapper on the left edge of the screen, not slowly going down once it's hit. I could help on those too, but I'm actually no expert, so if Firebrand or someone else could give me some hints, I could do the tweaking myself... - 22/8/06= Another thing I noticed is that when firing most weapons with the Doom guy, you get to see for a moment the first frame of the Warrior's gauntlets HUD image mixed with the Doom's own animation. This is particularly visible when continuosly firing the machine gun. - 25/8/06= Just reminded - there's a mistake on the "shield and sword" weapon for the Witchaven guy: the sword used is the double-handed one, which doesn't work because the shield in the original game stays up always, even when attacking. Only one handed weapons are used with the shield, I would suggest the Long Sword, because it has one of the best animations, and we could always edit it's properties to make it more powerful (as powerful as the double handed one). NEW -----------------//------------------ That's it for now, I'll edit this post when I have more obervations, untill then anyone is free to edit it, add his own opinions or correct the text in any way, as well as giving explanatins on why this or that work the way it does, etc. Maybe it would be better to keep this thread with the least posts possible, for easy browsing of the suggestions and issues.

Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:19:43

Crimson Wizard

[quote="mago":2ehijd02]As for corners, the bots seem able to make complex turns and enter small corridors and get out easily, but then get stuck on open areas' corners, and they tend to be specific places, not just any corner. Bad nodes placement? [quote="mago":2ehijd02]The poison breath is indeed a little too slow, I reckognize it is a great ambush weapon in small places, but is just harmless in big areas, making it a bit too much specialized Did you see my new variant with high speed fire and extra clouds spawning?

Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:50:51

mago

No I haven't seen your version... I thought I had the latest build? (KA_10072006).

Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:53:26

Crimson Wizard

Seems Firebrand haven't build a new one. Well, I tried to experiment and made this poison cloud move 3x faster and explode, spawning 4 extra static clouds on death.

Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:58:31

Firebrand

First than anything, I wish to thank you for your observations about how KA works, it will greatly help to the development of a better MOD for everyone, you are very observative with small details, which is something I really like from you, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. The main problem I've got for further bots development, is that there are just 2 or 3 maps that actually have path nodes placed on them, the path nodes help the bots A LOT when tracking enemies and/or items, normally the bots "detect" objects in their field of vision by order (items, enemies, path nodes, etc.), if they detect one of them, they just get close enough until the item if picked up, the enemy is close enough, the path node is "visited", etc. This can sound very stupid, but we are talking about a very limited AI engine <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /> , believe me, I've tried a lot of different aproachs to the best tracking system and decided for this one, because it allows us to add new things and methods of tracking objects that is freely editable and adaptable to different bot's attributes (skill, accuracy, etc.), which IMO is the best thing to customize the bots, just to comment. Of course I'm going to make this a perfect as possible (you know I won't stop until the bots work right <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />). As for your suggestions with weapons sprites, go ahead <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, grab whatever sprites you want and modify them as you feel right, as you once said, this is a beta and everything can change anytime <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. The weapons, as they are now, are almost complete, there are a few weapons that really suck in the way they are implemented (even after balancing them), and some others are stronger when you level up, this is something we need to further revise to get to a point where the weapons are all balanced for all classes in almost all (or all) the experience levels available <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, please keep suggesting which weapons aren't good and how to improve them, we programmers will do the rest <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:36:16

mago

Added one more observation (Weapon graphics). Will put the new ones in bold for a coule of days, so they can be easily seen. PS: Firebrand - thanks for the compliments, just trying to help you out! I have almost completed the new Cleric Mace, just needs to add the magic glow. When done, you can see if you think it's worth it. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Thanks for the explanations.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:43:51

Crimson Wizard

Ok, people, what do we have in TODO list for now? I currently work on a Team Selection menu. Moose (probably, since I haven't heard any news from him yet <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> ) is making Heresiarch player. Is KA near its version 1.0 completion? Aren't there any general tasks left?

Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:57:09

Firebrand

Well, if you want, you can start making some tests with weapons to see if they are balanced, I think that could give a big help for the last things to do, I'm almost finished with the bots AI for football and fixing the cleric's poison breath to act more similar to Ichor's poison serpent.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:20:57

Crimson Wizard

What's the methods of testing weapon balance? I mean, is there some plan how to know whether they are balanced or not?

Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:51:49

Firebrand

Hmm, well if I remember correctly, Ramborc and I made a table (I'll post a link to it ASAP), where we described the aprox. damage values both before and after balancing the weapons, I really need to further test this myself too, but I remember there were weapons that killed you with ONE shot!! (it was too exaggerated IMO). Play test with bots and monsters to see if they can handle the damage done by weapons obviously a level one weapons shouldn't kill you with one shot (the only exception to the rule are the eighth weapons for every class), I think that if we balance correctly weapons at first level they'll keep balance in every level you get, I think a hit of 25-30 is OK, if you get a hit that damages you OVER this value that weapon is overrated and should IMO be lowered a bit, please take notes of the current damage amounts in case something isn't correct after balancing <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. You can browse through the files in my folder on KDev to find an M$ Excel table which has the amount of damage the weapons currently have (the one AFTER balancing the weapons should be the correct one), I think the only missing weapon is the death wyvern breath, but it can be easily added and corrected <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. Please make any questions you have and Ramborc or I will try to answer them.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:30:16

Crimson Wizard

Well, there's something really wrong with Fighter's weapons - Hellstaf and Ripper. They cost only 1 mana (blue & red correspondingly) per shot on 10th level while kill low level players by 2-3 hits. This makes 10th Fighter absolutely (!) invulnerable, since there's mana everywhere so I may simply run and fire all directions killing everyone. I managed to collect 50 frags and still no one fragged me.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:34:43

RambOrc

That's strange, considering weapons use on lvl 10 still more than half the mana they use on lvl 1 (mana efficiency goes from 100% to 190%).

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:37:23

Crimson Wizard

I haven't explored code much, but the only factor used in mana calculations for Ripper I found is player's wisdom:

if (weapon.wis_mod)
{
	manause = manause * 10 / wisdom;
}

That means that mana usage decreases with level, not increases.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:40:30

Firebrand

I don't remember this very well, but efficiency is used for some weapons and wisdom for other (long range weapons?), if this isn't true, please correct me and we'll use efficiency for every weapon.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:44:50

Crimson Wizard

What is actually an "efficiency" parameter? I cannot see it anywhere.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:48:31

Firebrand

Hmm, then maybe Camper got confused when he wrote the RPG elements on KA, we first had a layout of attributes for the player characters in KMOD 2, but it eventually came to our minds that this system could be improved by adding some more attributes to it, this making the player less strong for the original game and making it EVEN more fun to level up to make you stronger in more aspects <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. IIRC, the player attributes are described in the KA design guide, whidh is somewhere in KDev (maybe on Ramborc's folder or the Arena folder) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:49:03

RambOrc

LOL seems like some legacy KMOD stuff is still in the weapon handling. In KA, every attribute is increasing at 10% of the original level 1 value any time you level up (e.g. at level 3, all your attributes are 120% of the original). That means that on level 1 you have 100 HP, on level 3 you have 120 HP. Also, the delay between your melee attacks is decreasing, and you use less mana per shot. This is governed by efficiency, which is at 120% at level 3, meaning you use 5/6 of the mana on level 3 you would've used on level 1.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:57:45

Firebrand

OK, so the only thing I get from this is that maybe efficiency isn't properly implemented (if it's implemented, hehe!) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. Then we've got something to check out Crimson Wizard <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:04:11

Crimson Wizard

Mana usage is decreasing with level as you say, RambOrc. So it is normal behavior? If it is, then there's no problem with effeciency. However, all this makes high level player too powerfull. OTOH this may be because these bots are too stupid to progressin level... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /> I never met a bot higher than 3rd level actually. Usually they die too quick. What if we increase experience cost for high levels a bit? During tests I noticed that after 4th or 5th level player receives a new level almost each time he frags someone even if it was 1st level opponent.

Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:04:06

RambOrc

At the highest level, you are not even twice as powerful than a lvl 1 opponent, I wouldn't call that overpowering - I mean have you never fragged a bot in UT that had supershield (200 armor) and who knows how much health and you having like 20 HP? That's more of a difference than what we are talking about here. Also, there is a ticker that takes EXP away from you all the time, meaning you won't stay high level for long unless you constantly make new frags. Regarding stupid bots, you know there are ways to get tougher ones, right? First by using higher numbers in their names (like botm71), and also by setting difficulty in the game setup menu to highest.

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:42:43

RambOrc

Log: QUIETUS Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow Dev: UpdateLevel: player overflow - (common.Entity.TryMove) - SV_LinkToWorld - VEntity::TryMove - RunFunction - (common.Entity.TryMove 0) - RunFunction - (svprogs.WeaponDarkness.A_FHammerThrow 365) - RunFunction - (svprogs.WeaponFighterHammer.S_FHAMMERATK_5.None 24) - VObject::ExecuteFunction - (svprogs.WeaponFighterHammer.S_FHAMMERATK_5.None) - VViewEntity::SetState - RunFunction - (common.ViewEntity.SetState 0) - RunFunction - (svprogs.Player.MovePsprites 270) - RunFunction - (svprogs.Player.PlayerTick 1076) - VObject::ExecuteFunction - (svprogs.Player.PlayerTick) - SV_RunClients - SV_Ticker - ServerFrame - Host_Frame Dev: Sending clc_disconnect Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 9 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 0 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 2 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 11 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 2 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : Dev: Player::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: Player::UpdateScore : score total now = 2 Dev: PlayerTeam::UpdateScore : Dev: PlayerTeam::UpdateScore : event = 1 Dev: PlayerTeam::UpdateScore : score total now = -1 - TMemZone::Free - Z_Free - VStr::Resize - DestructField - VStruct::DestructObject - (scoreboard_t) - DestructField - DestructField - VClass::DestructObject - (MainClientState) - CL_Shutdown Log: CL_Shutdown failed Exiting due to external exception

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:04:04

Crimson Wizard

Entity.TryMove

Error happens in function TryMove of class Entity, which is of native type (built-in engine). TryMove call is made form WeaponDarkness::A_FHammerThrow:

Actor mo = HexenLevelInfo(Player.Level).Spawn(DarknessMissile, org);
	mo.Instigator = pmo;
	mo.Angles = angles;
	AngleVector(&angles, &vforward);

	mo.Speed = 128.0;//10.0;
	mo.bMissile = true;
	mo.bRip = true;
	vforward.z = 0.0;

	mo.Velocity = vforward * mo.Speed;
	mo.Origin += mo.Velocity;
	mo.TryMove(mo.Origin);

I am not sure, but I don't like following piece of code:

mo.Origin += mo.Velocity;
mo.TryMove(mo.Origin);

Maybe we should change to:

mo.TryMove( vector(mo.Origin.x + mo.Velocity.x,

.... and so on Anyway, I suggest showing this to Janis. There might be some unhandled exception in Entity::TryMove.

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:27:17

dj_jl

Of course it's wrong. It should be

mo.TryMove(mo.Origin + mo.Velocity);

Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:07:46

Firebrand

Yes, it's wrong, I'll fix it ASAP, maybe on the weekend, right now I'm going to sleep, it was a busy day, see ya people! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /> EDIT:This issue is fixed now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:19:33

Firebrand

I've got this error when playtesting KTH.

- (svprogs.GameKTH.PlayBirthSequence)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.GameKTH.PlayBirthSequence 21)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.GameKTH.HandleGameEvent 128)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.GameSequencer.Continue 65)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.Sequencer.Tick 24)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (svprogs.Sequencer.Tick)
- VThinker::Tick
- RunThinkers
- P_Ticker
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect


ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object

Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:50:54

Crimson Wizard

Great. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /> Well, I am modifying KTH right now, adding some very cool special effects to these sequences, so I'll also check what may be wrong there. Secondly, RambOrc, what were you saying about Alternate Fire (using flechettes & discs)? I dunno is Firebrand making this currently? I already started to make it, adding extra entry to controls menu, but then I realised I do not know how it should act.

Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:25:08

RambOrc

You have primary and secondary fire (by default left and right mouse buttons). Primary fire is clear and already working (weapons 1-8). Secondary fire works in the following way: If you press 9, you arm the Discs of Repulsion as secondary weapon. Activating secondary fire (clicking the right mouse button) does exactly the same thing as currently pressing 9 does (firing one disc charge). If you press 0, you arm the Flechettes as secondary weapon. Clicking the right mouse button does the same as clicking 0 does right now. If the Flechettes are already active as secondary, pressing 0 will cycle through the 3 modes of the Flechette (time bomb, thrown, poison smoke). This means you can freely use any combination of primary and secondary fire to create your weapon combo, like a sword with the thrown flechette so you have some ranged attack even when concentrating on melee, or like the Hammer of Darkness with the poisonous flechettes so that your enemies can't see the poison cloud in the darkness, or like a rocket launcher augmented by grenades for maximum carnage with one shot. To make this more useful, you should also halve the ammo usage of both discs and flechettes (10 instead of 20 at level 1). Also, primary and secondary fire should be simultaneous, e.g. if you are holding down the left mouse button to fire a continous stream of shots from the machine gun or the firestaff, you should be able to pop out discs of repulsion without having to stop firing. Switching between 0 and 9 (discs and flechettes) does not change the flechette mode, i.e. if you have set the flechettes to time bombs and then switch to discs and then press 0 again, you still have the time bombs. Only pressing 0 repeatedly does change the currently armed flechette type (this system makes it more flexible, like adding more flechette and disc types in the future without influencing gameplay dynamics).

Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:35:16

Crimson Wizard

Cool. I think I can handle this in few days. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />

Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:13:22

Crimson Wizard

Did it. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" />

Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:31:34

Firebrand

This one is for you Janis, I was trying to start a game in the "Curse" map (dm_07), I've got this:

Dev: Spawning server dm_07
Log: Invalid extra floor, tag 89
Log: Invalid extra floor, tag 98
- (engine.Object.MSG_WriteLong)
- VMessage::GetSpace
- VMessage::operator << vint32
- RunFunction
- (engine.Object.MSG_WriteLong 0)
- RunFunction
- (engine.LevelInfo.AddStaticLightRGB 73)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.Actor.OnMapSpawn 539)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.HexenLevelInfo.SpawnMapThing 244)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (svprogs.HexenLevelInfo.SpawnMapThing)
- SV_SpawnServer
- COMMAND Map
- VCommand::ExecuteString
- VCmdBuf::Exec
- Host_Frame


ERROR: TSizeBuf::GetSpace: overflow without allowoverflow set
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown

I'm sure it could be related to the network code, but I don't know, I'm posting it here anyway <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:57:08

Crimson Wizard

Following data should be added for Heresiarch player: (in MainGameInfo) - AutoArmorSave ArmorIncrement probably something else. Plus, FB, we need H. portrait. Also I would be glad to receive some tips on how Hereisarch Claw attack should look like. E.g. should it be just simple strike or strike with changing power (like Fighter's punch), or something else, plus how much sprites we are going to use there.

Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:39:22

Firebrand

I'll get to it, there are some sprites for the heresiarch claw I already has somewhere in my HD, I'll look for them and post here when I find them (and have uploaded them too) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. I guess it could be like the fighter's punch.

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:05:23

Crimson Wizard

Okey, I am going to add 4th Heresiarch weapon (uses red mana) which I called "Infernal Hand" for now. It spawns a "rolling head" just like normal Heresiarch do, but it acts as Bloodscourge self-guidance missile (with increased sensivity btw), can blast thru a number of players (likewise they were monsters). Also, not only its damage, but explosion radius grow with Heresiarch level. Rather deadly. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Then, what if final, 5th weapon for Hereisarch will summon local earthquake? Just an idea. Third. I suggest decreasing number of maximum corpses in game to, let's say, 12 or 16; I think that will be enouph for them not to dissapear to quick, otoh we'll gain in perfomance since less data is transferred from server to client; I don't see any great need to have many corpses in DM.

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:47:16

RambOrc

Could it be a setting in the menu, set from 0 to 16+? It could make performance better on slower machines, but it would be the user's choice (I for one would disable them altogether if I could gain speed).

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:15:37

Crimson Wizard

Right.

Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:21:59

Firebrand

Yep, sounds good to me.

Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:04:35

Ichor

How about this as a replacement to the cleric's poison breath,assuming you do want to replace it? The explosions cause poison damage. The shots are somewhat similar to the Bloodscourge, except they're a lot faster and don't home in nearly as quickly, so you'd have to at least aim a bit if you want to hit something. I don't know what to call it though.

Sun, 04 Mar 2007 08:23:02

doomjedi

I think current imlementation is better.

Sun, 04 Mar 2007 16:50:42

Firebrand

We don't want to replace the poison breath, I think it's a cool weapon <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. The one you show here is a nice one too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, but we could use it for the RPG too IMO.

Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:35:30

Ichor

Heh, just a wacky idea. I changed that Hellstaff back to the Serpent Staff (novelty finally wore off I guess), and I had to think something up for when I use the Tome of Power, and this is what I ultimately settled on.

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:42:05

Crimson Wizard

Currently Football map included in internal beta is crashing on load. I opened it in Doom Builder and discovered several bad errors with unclosed sectors and duplicate lines. Also it looks incomplete. There are some inactive switches and platfroms. I remember there were some scripts on original map, which I removed when was testing my football game mode.

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:35:57

RambOrc

I guess you removed the scripts for displaying the score.

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:10:41

Crimson Wizard

Okay, here are things needed to be completed, after which KA will be ready for 1.0 release. 1) Team competition anouncements. Currently (that means - if use latest SVN code) Player competition announcements are working, and trophies are working (thanks Lucas, they sound cool <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ). Team announcements should use similar algorythm as Player's in general; Me or Firebrand may make them in 1-2 days. The only problem that may appear here is sounds compatibility, since we have to build phrases. 2) Add normal flag sprites for CTF with colour adjustments; perhaps textures as well, but that is not so important imo. 3) Very important - I've already mentioned that - CTF maps need to be filled by items! 4) I suggest football map be edited too to make it look better. Also it needs some changes in ACS regarding Game control functions, something is obsolete there (I'll post about this later). Hmm... funny, but that is all I can think of. Seems we are truly near release state. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:54:49

Firebrand

If you have some free time and energy <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, you can start with the implementations of the basic algorythm needed for team messages, I'm sure you'll handle that with ease. I can do numbers 2 and 3, I also need to get into the game the finished sprites for the heresiarch weapons, it shouldn't be too complicated, but as I mentioned during the weekend, exams week is running high <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />, so I won't have much time until the weekend <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" />.

Sun, 01 Jul 2007 13:26:07

Crimson Wizard

Firebrand, I noticed that player is sometimes given 3 or 4 levels at once. Upon closer inspection I found your new formula of experience given for a frag: GiveExperience(500 + ((500 * (Player(Player).exp_level - 1) / 10) * (500 * (Player(source.Player).exp_level - 1) / 10))); If you subst some real values there, you may notice that player will be given irregulary huge amount of exps. For example, if killer's level is 3 and victim's is 2, killer recieves: 500 + (500 * 1 / 10) * (500 * 2 / 10) = 500 + 50 * 100 = 5500. Nice, eh? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I am about to change this to: GiveExperience(500 * Player(Player).exp_level / Player(source.Player).exp_level); E.g. if a killer is of 4 level and victim is of 2 level, killer gets 500 * 2/4 = 250 exps. If killer is 2 level and victim is 4 level, killer gets 500 * 4/2 = 1000 exps. This will require some testing, ofcourse.

Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:38:53

Firebrand

I've found the problem, the "*" between the two expressions is supposed to be a "+" sign <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />, it's been there in my face all this time and I've never noticed it, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" />

Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:41:17

Crimson Wizard

I am not sure + is good for that too. This will make players with higher level get more exps, that is not good IMO.

Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:38:32

Firebrand

I'm sure the best solution might be to make it with the formula you are proposing here, seems more balanced IMO, and it'll work as we need it to, so go for it, heh!

Sun, 01 Jul 2007 22:41:36

RambOrc

[quote="Crimson Wizard":2gkj8u0s]I wish to raise this question once again. In my opinion high levels are reached too easy and when you reach 10th level you become almost invulnerable to low level players. Since you frag them all the time them cannot advance high enbouh to make you a proper competition, even if they manage to kill you couple of times. I propose to make following 1) Experience delta grows with level. E.g. to get 2nd level you have to get 1000 exps, to get 3rd you have to ADD 1500 etc. (Currently delta is always 1000) 2) Number of exps you get from frag depends on victim's Level. Killing hi-level player grants you larger amount of exps. 3) (Optional) Being killed by player, who is much lower in level, you loose more exps, than being killed by player who is a match for you. And vice-versa, being killed by player much more powerful, you loose less exps In my opinion this will make game more dynamic and interesting. Sounds like the code isn't doing what the concept says. A lvl 10 player should have a bit less than twice the HP and damage of a lvl 1 player (190%). If a lvl 10 player kills a lvl 1 player, he barely gets any exp for this. If a lvl 1 player kills a lvl 10 player, he gets a lot of exp for this (enough to advance several levels, in fact). Players are losing exp every second. The higher the lvl, the more exp they lose every second. Players who die lose exp. None at lvl 1, very little at lvl 2, a lot at lvl 10. This also depends on what lvl the fragger was (if a lvl 1 kills a lvl 10, the lvl 10 loses so much exp he falls back several levels). This is the original concept that should be in the code (not sure how far it has been implemented). With this concept, you have to be constantly on your toes and fight very hard and not let yourself be killed if you want to stay at the top of the lvl structure. And even so, the highest lvl doesn't make you superhuman.

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 09:04:54

Crimson Wizard

LOL, RambOrc, how happened that you saw my deleted message??? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_surprised.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /> Or maybe I do not see it? Actually that's what I typed for the first time, but then I saw Firebrand's mistake in code and understood why players grow too fast. Formula I put there instead works better IMO, thus you have to make couple of frags to get 2nd level, but you need to frag at least 5 1st level noobs to get 4th. I am only not sure about this:

A lvl 10 player should have a bit less than twice the HP and damage of a lvl 1 player (190%).

Maybe we should check if it is really true. As for loosing exps over time, AFAIK currently player looses it only when he does not move. (It is sort of penalty for 'camping')

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:50:42

RambOrc

No, he should lose exp all the time (you can cheat too easily on a "no move" variable). This puts a pressure on high lvl players to get new frags, thereby constantly risk their high lvl bonuses. A player gains 10% of the base stats every lvl, hence he's at 110% at lvl 2 and 190% at lvl 10.

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 15:37:04

Firebrand

Most of the stats are upgraded by 10% when leveling up, maybe the only problem would be with health, I'm sure that at lvl 10 a player has 210 health points (or something near this value), so we'll have to check this part of the code. As for the amounts of experience given by kills, I don't even know how much killing each player gives, but it could be debugged somehow <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:01:30

RambOrc

I don't now what's in the code these days, but originally on lvl 1 you got 500 or 550 exp for killing another lvl 1 player, meaning after killing a lvl 1 guy twice you reached lvl 2.

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:36:46

Crimson Wizard

Yeah, that was so earlier. Currently, as I mentioned above, I put there this formula: exps given for a frag = 500 * victim's level / killer's level Examples: victim / killer / exps 1 1 500 2 1 1000 1 2 250 3 1 1500 1 3 166 4 1 2000 1 4 125 etc When 10th level player frags 1st level pl, he gets only 50 exps. 1st level player gets 5000 exps for fragging 10th level pl. So he may instantly get 5 or 6th level. This may be adjusted.

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:57:53

Crimson Wizard

I totally changed the way how map lists are build for game modes. Previously proper maps were found by prefixes (e.g. DM_ for deathmatch, MAP for castle sweep etc). This was not very good, since if some map can be used for 2 or more modes, sometimes you need to duplicate it, thus increasing data size. (For example there already are two "Citadel" instances - for DM and Castle Sweep). Now KA is using text scripts for that, that should be put into basepak.pk3/scripts folder. They are "gm_dm.txt", "gm_ctf.txt" and so on. Those scripts are simply a text files with a list of maps in them for corresponding game mode. Maps may be listed either using precise names (e.g. MAP05) or using prefixes (e.g. DM_* - where asterix means - 'all the maps beginning with this piece'), in any combinations. For example, here is how gm_dm.txt looks like now:

//
// Deathmatch maps
//

DM_*
CF_*

FB_01

MAP01
MAP02

Next I'll make ACS function to get current game mode, in case map should execute some actions for some particular game mode(s).

Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:24:08

Firebrand

Well thought my friend, this will make it easy for map makers out there to add maps for KA without having to make a mess <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. It'll also be nice to have those ACS functions too.

Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:26:24

Crimson Wizard

Nah, I found there's already a good way to do this using built-in ACS function GetCVar. Usage is - GetCVar("deathmatch"). We only need to add proper game type ids to korax.acs.

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:12:45

Crimson Wizard

So, I believe we are near KA release at last... for real. I think it would be perfect if we release it before 1st january. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Domination mode can be thought as finished, its map not, but even if I won't be able to complete it fully, it can be still used as a demo (its just a small square area with single base) I am not sure we can add Racing, mainly because we haven't got even a scetch of a map for it, besides I think concept is quite raw. What else? - CTF maps need be filled with items. - Bots AI. I am writing that now but even if it will take longer than expected old code could be used instead. - Couple of graphical bugs (will mention them afterwards) - they could be not noticed at all. That was written in July: [quote="RambOrc":13e47d1q]No, he should lose exp all the time (you can cheat too easily on a "no move" variable). This puts a pressure on high lvl players to get new frags, thereby constantly risk their high lvl bonuses. Actually not implemented yet. Should do so? Also. Are there just any small features anyone wants to have in game, that sort of features that could be made quickly? As for me, I propose doing thing similar to Q3: a screenshot of map below map selection with a short description. Or more: a "thumbnail" screenshot on selection and a large full-screen picture during map loading (it is simple to do, just hide main menu and draw it all over screen a moment before send warp command in code. Maybe RambOrc can do these and we put them to game. What else? New KA trailer? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:06:54

RambOrc

Map preview sounds good. As for losing exp, yes implement it, I'll beat up Firebrand one of these days for not yet having done it. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:53:07

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":16l2gzzz]Map preview sounds good. As for losing exp, yes implement it, I'll beat up Firebrand one of these days for not yet having done it. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> Hahaha! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_shifty.gif" alt="8-[" title="Anxious" /> We'll make a release before December 31st, but I want to test the new code and finish squishing small bugs I've found, also, I want the team to test it internally before release, just so that everything works as expected and no serious problems remain, if things work as expected we'll make a new release. I promise to upload a new internal version next week, I'm still rushing myself to finish the code I'm doing <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:52:52

Crimson Wizard

I have a proposal - what if we add use modes for Disc of Repulsions as Flechettes have? For example - time bomb (stays on ground and activates after some time) and projectile (flies forward and activates when bumps into anything).

Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:55:44

Firebrand

If you mean to add variations for the discs of repulsion, then go ahead, it will be interesting to have additional combos for the weapons <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:31:08

Crimson Wizard

I made them, hard to say if they are useful, but they add some feeling of havoc in game <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> They need appropriate icons!! Modes now: - BLAST INSTANT - default, what we all are used to. - BLAST BOMB. - stays on one place for 3 seconds, blasting everything, but only 1 object per time. - BLAST MISSILE - flies forward and performs same effect as default in the point of explosion. Blast missile can be used to make enemy crazy, or to save allies, surrounded by enemies. Blast bomb is the weirdest, maybe can be used for defense purposes; also I found out it can be used same way as rocket jump but without health loss <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:27:02

RambOrc

Interesting ideas.

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:40:28

Crimson Wizard

Heh, I just came to a thought... I saw an image of two players, one staying at ledge and wanting to jump over a hall to another ledge. Second is standing below. Lower player starts to quickly put Blast Bombs on floor, and upper player jumps forward, being blasted by 1st Bomb, then, luckily, by 2nd and so on and so on and finally reaches another ledge. He pushes a button and a door opens, allowing both players to exit level =))))) There could be a game mode in future for solving puzzles... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:02:25

RambOrc

Once the game modes from the concept document are all implemented, you are free to add anything else you want. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:24:29

Crimson Wizard

Speaking of which... - Deathmatch / Team Deathmatch : implemented - Capture the Flag : implemented (bots still suck) - Domination : fully implemented (1 map ready only) - Assault : not even started - Kill the Heresiarch : implemented - Critter Hunt : not even started - Football : partially implemented (bots suck, 1 map with some uncompleteness) - Summon Contest : not even started - Kill the Fool with the Chicken : not even started - Club the Pig : not even started Castle Sweep / Team Castle Sweep : not in concept list but implemented - Serpent Race (proposed by The4thClass) : not even started (but riding code is potentially available)

Fri, 07 Mar 2008 07:52:42

doomjedi

How about "Quake3 Team Arena"-ripped gamemodes like Scavenger, OverLoad? I also have many other game ideas. Do you need graphic tasks for the modes? Like flags for CTF and such?

Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:05:38

NeoWorm

There is Catch the Chicken mod for ZDooM. It would be interesting to add it.

Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:00:58

Firebrand

[quote="doomjedi":3c40x5g4]How about "Quake3 Team Arena"-ripped gamemodes like Scavenger, OverLoad? I also have many other game ideas. Do you need graphic tasks for the modes? Like flags for CTF and such? Could you explain this gameplay modes further? I have heard of them, but never actually played them <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" />. As for graphics, we already have a flag for CTF and Sigils for Domination gameplay mode, what we need more help with in the graphics department are weapons, please download the current internal build and check the weapons, (we need sprites for the darkness weapon for the fighter and heresiarch's weapons, a titlepic for KA, those are the most urgent things needed for a final release for KA IMO).

Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:56:09

doomjedi

[quote="Firebrand":nwo3ps0d] Could you explain this gameplay modes further? I have heard of them, but never actually played them <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> Modes are relatively simple and fun Overload - as it sounds - can use current CTF maps - but instead of the flag there is the Overload statue/orb/whatever...relatively large. It has large initial health (it becomes red-er as the health get's lower), and health regeneration rate. The other team needs to "Overload" the Overload sprite till it explodes - basically by shooting at it. But health regeneration makes it much more challengable, as you need to maintain a contineous attack at it to destroy it. Teamwork is a must <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Scavenger : - you have 2 pillows on each team's area (like CTF) + 1 pillow in the middle of the level (like 1-flag CTF). It handles basically as a deathmatch, but each time you frag an enemy - "frag" skull appears on the pillow in the middle ("enemy frag skull"). You need to get it from there and bring it to your enemy base pillow to score. If you're fragged on the way - you lose the skull, and need again to kill 1 enemy team member etc....if you're on your way with a skull and frag another enemy - another skull appears that another team member can carry to enemy base paralelly. If frag skull appears and enemy gets to it (on that middle pillow) before your team members do - the skull dissapears. fun fun fun ... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

please download the current internal build

Whati s the link? I need to be sure I download the latest.

Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:43:26

Firebrand

These modes sound interesting <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, and as you say it's easy to use already made maps for them, but we should work on them before the final release (until KA 1.1, or something...). Here's the link to the latest internal build: [url:3ah23ryw]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_02202008.zip

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:13:18

RambOrc

While waiting for the download of the linked version, something I was meaning to say before: I suggest everybody uses the Unix date format that is 100% straightforward, it's YYYY-MM-DD and thus it is automatically sorted right on every file system. Today is e.g. 2008-03-08

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:15:16

doomjedi

the link doesn't work <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" />

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:00:50

Firebrand

[quote="doomjedi":3biop85t]the link doesn't work <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> I've tried it and it works fine, does your browser give you any errors? Or the download gets incomplete? Remember that you have to be logged to KDev to be able to download.

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:33:44

doomjedi

No, the problem was my download manager.

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:47:38

dj_jl

[quote="Firebrand":3rig7847]... a titlepic for KA, ... How about creating a titlemap?

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:30:23

Firebrand

That could be interesting <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, but what could it contain? Any ideas on this are welcome <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. Another question, could the credits be substituted by another map?

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:51:40

doomjedi

we can ask permission from a guy from zDoom who posted that coolest pic including all Hexen and Heretic characters - hand drawn (as it seems) - top quality. [img:2pena1gx]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5724/hexenaw5.th.jpg[/img:2pena1gx]

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:17:36

NeoWorm

[quote="doomjedi":1n7qzj8j]we can ask permission from a guy from zDoom who posted that coolest pic including all Hexen and Heretic characters - hand drawn (as it seems) - top quality. Permission granted.

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:04:26

Firebrand

The only characters missing in that drawing are the doomguy and the witchaven hero, but even if they are drawn on a different pic they can be combined easily to make a decent titlepic IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:04:41

doomjedi

[quote="NeoWorm":3sv1bkw8][quote="doomjedi":3sv1bkw8]we can ask permission from a guy from zDoom who posted that coolest pic including all Hexen and Heretic characters - hand drawn (as it seems) - top quality. Permission granted. YOU did it?..or did you receive permission? Wow... Anyway - donnow why you still look for title pic if you get a permission for this one...

Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:48:28

NeoWorm

[quote="doomjedi":35iu1ub7]YOU did it?..or did you receive permission? Wow... Yeah I did it - I posted some other things in offtopic forum. I can try to color it and make a new titlepic, but it must wait untill I complete all missing KA weapon sprites.

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:13:28

doomjedi

Amazing work. How cool to have such a talent/skills

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:47:53

NeoWorm

[img:2pokt7dh]http://xs225.xs.to/xs225/08126/heresiarchhandspluspal232.png[/img:2pokt7dh] Almost done, adding lightning right now.

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 19:07:41

Crimson Wizard

Looks cool, it's for 'Storm' I believe?

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:34:50

NeoWorm

Yes its for Storm spell. New burning hammer. I dont know if its needed, it was just a quick idea, it came out really good I think. [img:15xv4wsq]http://xs125.xs.to/xs125/08126/fhmra0_898.png[/img:15xv4wsq] And new Soul spell for Heresiarch. Doomjedi had the hand completely wrong, so I made new version sticking to the orginal concept. I will add frames with spirits later. [img:15xv4wsq]http://xs125.xs.to/xs125/08126/soul742.png[/img:15xv4wsq]

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:48:39

RambOrc

Playing Heresiarch will be a real perk with these graphics. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 03:31:04

Firebrand

Interesting stuff, it's really going to be a good addition for Korax Arena IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, I really like the progress so far, as for the fire hammer sprites, they could be used for the powered version in KRPG, we have both a melee hammer and a fire hammer IIRC. Nice work!

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:29:59

NeoWorm

Preview for last Hersiarch weapon. I will add flames and some other stuff. What do you think? [img:2j0upy7j]http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/4830/skulltn4.jpg[/img:2j0upy7j]

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:57:37

RambOrc

If these graphics will look as good in-game as in these pictures, we'll have to think about some way to allow you to play a Heresiarch in Korax RPG (like possessing one of the Heresiarchs as part of a special quest).

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:15:43

NeoWorm

Maybe its too large... [img:2yau6rsb]http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4843/screenshothexen20080324pg8.png[/img:2yau6rsb] Storm test wad here: [url:2yau6rsb]http://www.mediafire.com/?yil1hzyn2kb

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:53:47

RambOrc

Yep it is, can it be scaled down in-game? Resizing the bitmaps means less details.

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:32:21

doomjedi

My teeth just fall on the ground from those arts. This is such a talent.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:19:04

Crimson Wizard

[quote="NeoWorm":elp6mnfk]Preview for last Hersiarch weapon. I will add flames and some other stuff. What do you think? Hehehe, now, I wonder, is he going to stick his fingers in tis scull eyes to produce it shoot? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /> [quote="NeoWorm":elp6mnfk]Maybe its too large... [quote="RambOrc":elp6mnfk]Yep it is, can it be scaled down in-game? Resizing the bitmaps means less details. Probably it can be scaled without fixing original bitma. At least monster/object sprites can be. Need to check this out.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:47:13

Firebrand

AMAZING!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_drool.gif" alt="=P~" title="Drool" /> AFAIK, only monsters can be scaled down, not weapon sprites, but we could try it, why not? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:27:51

dj_jl

You can provide original version as a high-resolution version of the sprite.

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:56:15

Crimson Wizard

Hey, Firebrand, as I can see, you've got a habit to texturize any new sprite in KA ))) domination sigils, KA launcher icon, etc. Now, I really suggest return old BURN sprite to XMasHavoc game, because this texturized looks pale & bleak!! Also, updated Football map, please check kdev : arena/maps folder.

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:57:27

Firebrand

I like them myself, but if you want I'll return the old version <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. They looked plain and simple IMO.

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:56:43

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":21ae6a6a]I like them myself, but if you want I'll return the old version <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. They looked plain and simple IMO. That was the idea, because whole game mode is a joke. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> But what I mean - that comparing to texturized version original ones look brighter.

Sat, 03 May 2008 12:16:04

Crimson Wizard

So what? Sorry was away from KA for a while, but are we ready to make another beta release?

Sat, 03 May 2008 12:24:18

RambOrc

As soon as most bugs from the previous public beta have been fixed, we should do a new beta IMO.

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:32:46

Crimson Wizard

Concerning the previous discussion in this thread - those new Heresiarch hand are way too different from older ones we used, and this really stands-out. I think someone has to make them look similar. modifying either older ones or new ones. Now, what was I going to mention here. I made Bounce Pads <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> real ones, and they work <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_dance.gif" alt="\:D/" title="Dancing" /> You simply set the sector property in map script like:

SectorSetBouncePad ( tag, xforce, yforce, zforce );

And then everytime anyone steps on floor of that sector, he will be bounced away according to force values. Currently works only for the lowest floor in sector, but I am planning to work more on this and make it possible to create 3dfloors with bouncing property. So, Firebrand, if you are going to create your own map (as you mentioned) you may leave a place in your plan for these <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcgift.gif" alt="orcgift" title="orcgift" /> Also, created Funnel sector property. Funnel is attached to sector similar to bounce pad, but it acts differently. It applies constant Z force to anything in sector between two given height values.

SectorSetFunnel ( tag, zforce, zbase, zlimit );

Basically, if zbase is lower than zlimit, it will push things up, otherwise - down. Funnels can be used as an 'elevator' which raises player up to some certain limit, and also as a safety pads that slower his falling down (if you adjust zforce so it be slightly less than gravity force).

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:05:52

Firebrand

Cool! I'm beginning to get back to mapping some CTF maps (and Domination maps too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />), but why they can only be used with scripts? Can't they be added as specials for sectors too?

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:31:34

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2up7v3dx]but why they can only be used with scripts? Can't they be added as specials for sectors too? Because you cannot customize sector special - there are no parameters for it. Ofc we may add some "standart" sector specials, but I do not know if this will be very useful. As for line special, 1-255 line specials are in use by Vavoom, and map editor do not let line action special be >255 <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> (Doombuilder allows to have such in the list, but when you assign one to a line, value is still cut to 1 byte).

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:56:09

Firebrand

Ok, seems to be problem, we'll have to ask Janis what to do about this, because for KRPG we'll need to certainly add new specials for certain stuff <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:35:09

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":e27p60fs]Ok, seems to be problem, we'll have to ask Janis what to do about this, because for KRPG we'll need to certainly add new specials for certain stuff <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. Why Janis? Map editor is the key problem.

Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:30:46

dj_jl

It's a limitation of the map format.

Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:27:53

Crimson Wizard

[quote="dj_jl":1zxhw7p6]It's a limitation of the map format. Huh, yeah. Well, what I meant, in may be changed in engine rather simply, I believe, but still even so it will require changes in map editor, which means we either need to ask editor creater(s), or take open source editor (DoomBuilder is one AFAIK) and hack it ourselves... but does it so really needed anyway? scripting works good. BTW: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/karena/bouncepads.avi">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... cepads.avi</a>

Sun, 09 Nov 2008 15:45:17

RambOrc

Looks like you already made it possible to use 3D floors for bouncing.

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:31:14

Crimson Wizard

A big SVN update. Few things have to be said here. 1. I modified Thing Flags. It works... for me, but we must check every map we have and fix flags for ALL things. .... well, this can be done by Drag-Selecting them, opening properties and changing only game mode flags (see below). Anyway, if something will go wrong, you know who's responsible <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> I updated config for DoomBuilder, which allows to customize thing flags (adding/removing/renaming), as for WadAuthor, you may use following table of correspondence: ------------- These work as always (only I doubt skill flags have any use in KA): Easy Medium Hard Deaf Dormant ------------- Substitution: Fighter class = Always (That is - All game modes.) Cleric class = Deathmatch Mage class = Capture The Flag Singleplayer = Domination Cooperative = Castle Sweep Deathmatch = Football then goes Xmas Havoc, but it will be already unusable in WadAuthor. 2.New Line specials (check karena.acs) to make BouncePads and Funnel (fully functional) 3. New type of nodes: Priority Path Node (thing type 15039). (I also found there 's an unused node grahic (pink) so I used that.) This type of node is supposed to lead bots between key points on map, like Domination sigils, or main action areas on DM maps. I found its boring seeing as bots wander aropund aimlesly especially on complex maps, so I implemented this. Bots seek for Priority Nodes when he has high priority to gain score, otherwise he will treat them same way as common Path Nodes and run around as he wishes. Well, what's else... Game runs pretty well now. I fixed some bugs that occured during tests, at least deathmatch, CTF and Domination seem to play without crashes. I found old map I was making, it's converted Hereisiarch Seminary. Currently usable for deathmatch and Domination modes. You may found it in karena/maps/seminary.zip

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:34:29

RambOrc

Football has no working bots yet, right?

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:36:52

RambOrc

Also, Castle Sweep could have 3 different modes: cooperative (all players are friendly to each other and can't use friendly fire), single (like deathmatch, i.e. you can kill any players while you kill the monsters), team (like team deathmatch, i.e. you work together with some players, against some others). Refresh my memory, what exactly are the currently implemented win objectives for Castle Sweep? Winner is who throws the exit switch/enters the exit portal or the one who killed most monsters before somebody exited the map or something else?

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:48:22

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3sl9r7dt]Football has no working bots yet, right? It has, and they sometimes even make goals <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> but they are much more funny than effective. [quote="RambOrc":3sl9r7dt]Also, Castle Sweep could have 3 different modes: cooperative (all players are friendly to each other and can't use friendly fire), single (like deathmatch, i.e. you can kill any players while you kill the monsters), team (like team deathmatch, i.e. you work together with some players, against some others). Hmmm, yeah? Well, currently we have Castle Sweep which works like cooperative and Team Castle Sweep which works like team deathmatch. [quote="RambOrc":3sl9r7dt]Refresh my memory, what exactly are the currently implemented win objectives for Castle Sweep? Winner is who throws the exit switch/enters the exit portal or the one who killed most monsters before somebody exited the map or something else? Killing all monsters on map is primary objective, but exit switch works too (it is ridiculous, but it works even during deathmatch, which is a bad bug in my eyes). Winner is the one who scored more, currently it is the one who killed more mosnters.

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:33:58

RambOrc

Funny is good. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I guess the difference between Team and Single CS mode is not that big and I leave it up to you whether you think it a good idea to add or not. Since there is always the chance a monster is hiding somewhere and nobody finds it, or people are ready to call it once the majority of the monsters is done and it's clear who wins anyway, it would be a good idea to make the match end once a player exits the game. At least in the Citadel map you need to kill quite a few monsters anyway before you can get to the exit due to map flow, and other CS maps should be built similarly anyway, since the idea of CS is to progress through the map with puzzles/keys. Also, besides ending the match reaching the exit first should award a certain number of points (just as killing different monsters should award different number of points), so doing that could tip a close run. Imagine 3 players trying to reach that exit and shooting each other dead every 5 steps so that the other doesn't get ahead of them. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:37:59

Firebrand

I think castle sweep shouldn't need any exit switches, let's leave exit switches for the campaign gameplay mode (the one we discussed some time ago <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />), let's make castle sweep like any other gameplay mode, it'll only end if time limit or score limit are reached. As for fixes, well, it all sounds pretty cool! I'll be completing those missing graphics and upload a new internal release (with new maps if possible <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />), it seems we are getting very close to a new beta release! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:54:47

Crimson Wizard

Well, now when RambOrc said all that about CS, I think CS is in playable but rather raw state. Besides, it has only 3 maps and not very big ones. I'd prefer to leave any modifications to CS for the future times, after upcoming beta release that is.

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:20:28

RambOrc

Yeah, having full-fledged CS is not crucial right now, as long as deathmatch, team deathmatch and domination work without a hitch, it should be a good public beta.

Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:49:13

Firebrand

Besides, CS is playable in it's current state (it's easy to notice who's winning anyways as it is now) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:06:27

Crimson Wizard

Couple of important statements. First of all, CTF. I had difficulties customizing scripts which translate flag color, although I had Firebrand's sample, colors worked weird. So I decided to check the code and found things even weirder. The code that was in CTFBanner class was made so that when flag is about to get translated, in fact it colorize EVERY OTHER flags EXCEPT this one. So, it is merely a coinsidence in my opinion that CF_01 worked. So, well, I fixed that, now it looks nsimplier and works simplier. Basically, scripts should now get a real thing TID to set color translation on. I mean, before it was like:

script 1 (int index)
CreateTranslation...
SetTranslation(index + <some number>, ...

Now it should be just like this:

script 1 (int index)
CreateTranslation...
SetTranslation(index, ...

Also, about CTF, I noticed that on CF_01 (ratchet) one flag has properties Team = 0, Index = 0, which is ok, another Team = 1, Index = 1; in the last case, Index should not be necessarily 1, it can be also 0, because Index just allows to have more than 1 flag per team (that was a crazy idea of mine, and what's funnier, it is not used at all in current code <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> ); if there is only 1 flag per team, Index does not matter at all. Secondly, I made two new deathmatch starts, Blue Start and Red Start, which are usable for CTF primarily. I found Firebrand's code which allows to define Team-dependent common Deathmatch starts, but in my opinion that is not much convenient, since you have to put args there, and it's more difficult to reconise which are these or those ones. So I changed that for using Blue and Red Starts. I remind that "Blue" and "Red" are conventional names, exact colours may be different; but in 2-team game the first team entered the match is counted "blue" (conventionally), other - "red". Tested, everything works fine... Actually, I think it is all ready for interal release. Along with DM,TDM,KTH and Domination, CTF also seem to work (I am talking about bots - that's it), which is a relief. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> I uploaded new intro pics for some maps that did not have them, they are in kdev/arena/graphics/intros Also maps update (DO_01, DO_02, XM_A) <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/maps/maps_upd20081112.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081112.zip</a>

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:56:34

RambOrc

[quote="Crimson Wizard":18va83jx]Actually, I think it is all ready for internal release. Perfect timing, after tonight I will have a lot more time to test KA, so make sure to make a big juicy download for me. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:56:08

Firebrand

I'll pack a new internal release and upload it later today.

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:19:17

Firebrand

New beta is up on KDev: [url:2hu1t2g8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081112.zip

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:25:27

Crimson Wizard

Umm, I found some bad bugs in bot ai last evening, so this one needs a patch <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orchmm.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081112patch.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 2patch.zip</a> Only 1 file is in there, basepak.pk3 for custom karena folder. And it seems I screwed Firebrands last changes in language.en <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> although I do not know if line endings are much important, as for capital letters, they are ignored by current font anyway.

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:49:06

Firebrand

Yes, I know they are ignored, but it makes it easier to read the descriptions in the text editor IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> .

Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:30:19

Crimson Wizard

Ok, anyway, here is second patch <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> : <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081112patch2.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... patch2.zip</a> now with some graphics. I noticed Firebrand did not use last screenies I put on kdev recently, so he did some himself; well you can check these and take some if you like them more <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> (there's one for "gargoyle's forest" that still missing in current build)

Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:47:40

Crimson Wizard

Forgot to do this earlier. I do not know what's the reason of this, but its second time I get CRC error for common/basepak.pk3 archive when downloading karena internal release. It will be great if this happens only for me, but just in case I am putting working archive on kdev: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KArena_20081112patch3.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... patch3.zip</a> I remind this time it should be put not in karena custom folder but in basev/common/ folder. Then, here's textures.wad I gathered in case someone need it: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/ka_textures_20081114.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081114.zip</a>

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:26:52

RambOrc

I have to say, the game is awesome! Haven't tested KA in months and the game feels even greater than last time. I'd say it's ready for public testing, even though there are some errors still of course. I saw two texture alignment errors: one at the top of an archway in Agio and one on the floor of one of the domination sigil elevations in Egypt. I played Deathmatch on a number of maps, got a crash on like the 6th map or so, Lethe's Castle, after a couple of minutes.

Log: GREEN MANA
Log: DISC OF REPULSION
- VHardwareDrawer::AllocBlock
- VHardwareDrawer::CacheSurface
- VOpenGLDrawer::DrawPolygon
- World surfaces
- VRenderLevel::RenderWorld
- VRenderLevel::RenderScene
- VRenderLevel::RenderPlayerView
- R_RenderPlayerView
- SCR_Update
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect
Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: overflow

Xmas havoc is awesomely funny. It crashed after 10 mins or so. Also, it seemed that several bots got stuck right at their start positions. Sometimes there were two of them stuck together. After killing some, at least one of them joined the game normally again and burned trees again.

Log: BFG 9000
- (game.HornRodMissile2.A_SkullRodStorm)
- RunFunction
- (game.HornRodMissile2.A_SkullRodStorm 21)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.HornRodMissile2.A_SkullRodStorm)
- VEntity::SetState
- VEntity::AdvanceState
- RunFunction
- (engine.Entity.AdvanceState 0)
- RunFunction
- (linespec.EntityEx.Tick 251)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (linespec.EntityEx.Tick)
- VThinker::Tick
- RunThinkers
- P_Ticker
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect
Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Reference not set to an instance of an object
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown

I got a crash on Football pretty quick, I guess once one of the bots died.

Log: ramborc joins blue team
Dev: GameFootball::HandleEvent : 152
Dev: GameFootball::EndCurrentState : state = 4, next_state = 1
Dev: GameFootball::BeginState : 1
Dev: GameFootball::EndCurrentState : state = 4, next_state = 2
Dev: GameFootball::BeginState : 2
Dev: GameFootball::NotifyACS : Event = 152
Log: <-------------------------------->
Log: kick off!
Log: <-------------------------------->
Dev: Sound Football_KickOff lump not found
Log: Daedalon was hacked by Sorveth's axe
Dev: PF_FormatString: Not all params were used
Log: Alcas was hacked by Sorveth's axe
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: Level.DeathmatchStarts.type = 11
Log: spawning at random location
Log: Host_Error: Player 2 has no start spots
Dev: Sending clc_disconnect
==========================================================================
			Shuting down VAVOOM
==========================================================================
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown

Domination on Egypt: first of all, all bots chose the same team so there was no enemy. Second, the sigils stayed black and no points were generated (might be because there was no other team). 3D models: some are pretty nice. I liked the new 3D bushes. OTOH some like the minotaur statue looked really weird. Start screens: why are there still original Hexen screens at startup? We have a Korax' Heritage 640x480 picture after all, IMO it should be at the start of every mod. Conclusion: if you can fix some of the bugs quick and easy, that's good, but otherwise the game is ready for a public beta, indeed even for an official 1.0 release the only thing I'd object to is the start screens. So I'd say make a public beta, fix some more errors and then we can officially go live this month. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:43:19

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]I saw two texture alignment errors: one at the top of an archway in Agio and one on the floor of one of the domination sigil elevations in Egypt. Egyptian map needs some alignment trully, and also I be fixing some architectur changes if it's run in CTF mode. Also I know there's an alignment mistake on Agony (hope I am correct), on these "erotic" stained windows with angels, it looks like left or right part shifted vertically slightly. [quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]got a crash on like the 6th map or so, Lethe's Castle, after a couple of minutes. Looks like a renderer fault. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> I am not a big spec here, so cannot say anything about that. [quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]I got a crash on Football pretty quick, I guess once one of the bots died. Opps, dang <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Looks like it's because of my recent changes with Team starts. For some reason it did not use common deathmatch start when no team start found... anyway, Football map need these team starts be added and some more stuff. [quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]Xmas havoc is awesomely funny. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> [quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]Domination on Egypt: first of all, all bots chose the same team so there was no enemy. Second, the sigils stayed black and no points were generated (might be because there was no other team). It sounds like "Keep Balanced Teams" option was set to false. Please, check Server Settings submenu (from New Game menu). In fact that strange, I belive it should be set to true by default. [quote="RambOrc":2gowtm5z]Start screens: why are there still original Hexen screens at startup? We have a Korax' Heritage 640x480 picture after all, IMO it should be at the start of every mod. Hehe, that's something I personally know nothing about <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc^^.gif" alt="orc^^" title="orc^^" /> PS. I liked patches idea, so perhaps we can make another bug-fixing patch in next couple of days, I already fixed some bugs mentioned here.

Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:35:32

Firebrand

I'll be doing something for a titlepic, it's a good idea, but I want to make it change a bit <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. As of status update, I've fixed the texturs issue now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, I'm testing KA too and have found a small number of bugs not posted here, I'll try to fix whatever is possible and update the SVN, if possible, I'll also upload a new beta tomorrow, so we can re-test it again, if everything works well, then we have a public beta release! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> Once I finish the maps I'm working on and they are tested internally (and we fix any bugs found on the public test), we can make a new public release with extra additions.

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 10:18:34

RambOrc

BTW why is there no snow on the xmas havoc map (besides the falling snow)? The Northern Dwarven Mines custom episode for Heretic has a bunch of snowy textures. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.ravengames.com/xmas/heretic/">http://www.ravengames.com/xmas/heretic/</a> Since the link there is broken, I uploaded the episode to <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/graphics/dwarvenmines.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... nmines.zip</a> - feel free to delete it from there once you extracted the textures.

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:20:47

Crimson Wizard

Heh, nice <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> BTW, that's reminds me. I heard there was something like a 4th episode for Heretic. Was it commercial too?

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:11:29

RambOrc

4th and 5th. It was a free upgrade for game owners and there was a re-release of Heretic in 1996 that included all 5 episodes.

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:39:57

Firebrand

IIRC, it wasn't commercial, you just need to upgrade your game to the latest version (1.3?) and your wadfile will then have those two episodes too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. EDIT: I now present to you the new titlepic for Korax Arena <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />: [img:1hncdfg7]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/karena/TITLE.png[/img:1hncdfg7]

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:14:30

Crimson Wizard

These guys are good, but I always had an uneasy feeling about that horned thing above with purple spot and comix-style letters... well, actually it's only now that I recognised Korax'es silouette <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> As a variant, what about making an animated korax face (using a texture with his face and flames) and put sprites of all characters we have same way as those three look there? Another thing, Ichor's Carnage Galore has snow textures too (2nd episode); can we take something from there?

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:58:22

RambOrc

I never understood what it represents either. Never noticed the Korax silhouette myself. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:27:33

Firebrand

Yeah, I think the original is too small, but for the main menu it's the biggest thing we can place <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. As for animated titlepic, I've got a better idea from what CW said <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />, I'll show it to you once it's progress is enough <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. If you like it, then this image will be used for the credits then <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:23:38

Crimson Wizard

Also we can have TITLEMAP, that is a real map, with some camera and scripting, shown at startup; only it shouldn't be too large, or menu will load too long. Heh, and I made the nice snow texture myself, simply inverting color on F_001 Hexen floor texture <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:18:24

RambOrc

You mean a cutscene for title like the 6 classes stand in a half-circle and the camera turns around, showing each of them for a moment?

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:36:32

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":1vl5jrmq]You mean a cutscene for title like the 6 classes stand in a half-circle and the camera turns around, showing each of them for a moment? Umm, well, I did not mean anything in particular, but what you proposed it's a real variant.

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:56:10

Crimson Wizard

Now, I modified Xmas map so that it would change textures over time: [img:2hw7rmqh]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/karena/shots/xmas_001.jpg[/img:2hw7rmqh] [img:2hw7rmqh]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/karena/shots/xmas_002.jpg[/img:2hw7rmqh] [img:2hw7rmqh]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/karena/shots/xmas_003.jpg[/img:2hw7rmqh] New snowy textures uploaded to kdev: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/textures/textures_upd20081117.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081117.zip</a> Maps updated: one for XmasHavoc, 3 others are CTF with some script schanges, as explaned below: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/maps/maps_upd20081117.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081117.zip</a> Well, yeah, so, I changed CTF color translation once again <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> General reason is that earlier it did not allowed to choose script number you are using for translations. Then I remembered I added such feature as ACS Notifiers, which allowed to tell the game script number you want to be called in case of some certain game event. So, now CTF script should look something like following (remember it's only an example, you can use different scripts and script indexes):
script 1 OPEN { int game = GetCvar("deathmatch"); if (game == gametype_ctf) { // Register notifier scripts AGame_SetACSNotifier(ctf_event_colortranslation, 200); } } script 200 (int team, int tid) { //print(s:"200 call: ", i:team, s:" ", i:tid); switch (team) { case 1: // Red team CreateTranslation(1, 146:159=176:185); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 1); break; case 2: // Gold team CreateTranslation(2, 146:159=128:143); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 2); break; case 3: // Lime team CreateTranslation(3, 146:159=211:216); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 3); break; case 4: // Green team CreateTranslation(4, 146:159=192:202); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 4); break; case 5: // Gray team CreateTranslation(5, 146:159=16:31); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 5); break; case 6: // Brown team CreateTranslation(6, 146:159=97:111); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 6); break; case 7: // Magenta team CreateTranslation(7, 146:159=231:239); Thing_SetTranslation(tid, 7); break; } }

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:13:37

Firebrand

Sounds less enforcing for users is being done here, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> I find it better implemented now, it was too messy and restrictive IMO, I did forget about ACS notifiers too when implementing it, nice work! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> As for TITLEMAP, that's what I was thinking on doing, I've worked on some new textures for the Korax face, to make it bigger, also using the sprites as a base, I've created bigger versions of the sprites, a bit more detailed too, I don't know yet how they look ingame, but I'll test it later and post some screens or even a new internal build with all the changes <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, today I've got a free day both at work and school, so it's possible to upload it all.

Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:47:32

Col.J.P.

[img:2ww7f7u8]http://www.ravengames.com/img/upload/normalimg/20081117224400.jpg[/img:2ww7f7u8] Castle Sweep not working, what's wrong here? My doing or what? The framerate got a lot better, need more time to test this one, k? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_boohoo.gif" alt=":-({|=" title="Boo hoo!" />

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:32:47

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Col.J.P.":1sjtol4v]Castle Sweep not working, what's wrong here? My doing or what? I know only one reason that may give this error: map was edited by someone, but he forgot to replace GLNODES and other similar lumps in the wad, so they are not compatible with map itself and engine becomes confused. If this is the problem, it can be fixed manually by extracting cs_02 from maps.pk3, opening it in any WAD editor (XWE for example) and deleting all the GL*** stuff. But better we do it instead, since its our job <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> Also, can you please post error log from basev/debug.txt instead of screenshot? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Also better post bugs in this thread: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://korax-heritage.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2018">viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2018</a>

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 11:46:18

Crimson Wizard

Then I added Heresiarch Spawn Spot, basically game will seek for nearest one; if found it will spawn new Heresiarch there, if not, Heresiarch is spawned on the same place where player is now. Works for me. (no big deal anyway) Also I finally enabled all thoese colored decorations, - they were not complete because they had no code which would set their teams; I tried some and found they work only partially; first of all, they do not translate totally, large piece of blue flame still is blue, secondly their dynamic light do not change color no matter I do <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> Maybe Vavoom does not allow to change dynamic light colour dynamically? DO_01 map (Egyptian) completed: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/maps/maps_upd20081118.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081118.zip</a> except for floor alignment, but I got a problem there with aligning textures with size > 64 pixels (<a class="postlink" href="http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1439">http://vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtop ... f=1&t=1439</a>)

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:35:49

Firebrand

I'll download these and see what I can do (if there's anything possible, maybe CW is right and dynamic lights can't change their colour on the fly... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> ).

Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:38:59

Crimson Wizard

I bought myself UT2004 <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> And found couple of interesting things. First of all, I thought that Kill The Heresiarch mode is unique of its type, but it appeared UT has Kill the Mutant mode; then it has Invasion game type, funny, I was thinking about absolutely similar some time ago, even of the same name.

Sun, 30 Nov 2008 15:00:51

RambOrc

Kill the Heresiarch is not a new game type, you can check that in the design guide. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> It comes from a mode for Elite Force, who got the idea from still another mod from another game IIRC.

Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:36:21

Col.J.P.

Anyone tried UT3 around here? The damn thing conflits with my Xi-Fi sound card and crashes, can't play it on my rig! But it seems very good on my son's computer, the new Domination type is great, specially the vehicles and the skater!

Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:32:01

Firebrand

Yes, I've got it too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, it's a big resource hugger thought <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />, I really like the new gameplay modes it has, the vehicles are the best in all the game series IMO. As for invasion, it would be cool to actually have a similar gameplay mode, but we should try to add something a bit different to make it more interesting, how about something like powered up enemies for each wave? It wouldn't be too difficult, it would just be a matter of multiplying the default values for monsters or something similar <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:32:55

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Col.J.P.":2308didw]Anyone tried UT3 around here? Nope.. but the only look on these videos on youtube makes me feel doubts I will be able to try them on my computer <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> As for modes, well, all this needs proper planning; I did not like Invasion in UT, mostly because monsters are not easily recognised, and look too weird in general (imagine attack of wild grasshoppers and giant flyes supported by skaarj soliders <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc5.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /> ). I was going to propose another kind of game earlier, like players defend some Objective and monsters come in a waves trying to get to that objective and destroy it (something like an idea of easter-egg for KoraxRPG where you have to protect Santa Klaus from monsters). UT-style Invasion may be renamed to something like Survival. New UT's Double Domination makes me shiver, for some reasons I found it the most annoying game mode, although it has right to exist indeed. In fact, I think we may add same mode as an alternative to common Domination, and call it Total Domination (in case we use different number of sigils on map, like only 1, or >2). We may use same maps as for normal Domination, removing one (of 3) Sigil if wanted by means of ACS. But this will require changes top HUD information as well to make the mode more playable. I was wondering if something similar to Onslaught is possible in KA. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Well, not necessarily exactly the same, but similar. Vehicles could be changed to saddle monsters like Serpents and Dragons. Umm, well, this sound way too complex to discuss now....

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 11:39:08

RambOrc

UT 2003/2004's domination is plain crap IMO. I loved original UT domination, hated all the later stuff. One thing I forgot to mention last week: HUD has too little info, many a time I was looking for something and couldn't find it. Given that the HUD only covers half the bottom due to resolution, it could be maybe extended and additional info like frag count and the like put in there?

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:11:30

Firebrand

The frag counts were removed because of the scoreboard, but they can bee re-added again without much problems <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:40:16

RambOrc

Scoreboard is a good overview of all players, but infos regarding me should be displayed w/o having to open the scoreboard that covers my screen, e.g. my personal frag count.

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:27:21

Crimson Wizard

Yeah, really, that was a strange decision about removing frags info. But I suggest maybe personal Score and team score (if available) be shown instead; and maybe the hi-score (if you are loosing) and closest lower score (if you are on 1st place). Anyway, I made some changes to Bot ai, movement mostly, hoping to enhance it a bit. It's difficult to say whether I succeed. I do not want to touch it anymore - for now, because it's a bad idea to screw something up just before the planned public release. Still, on "normal" skill level bots usually suck, I'd say, nightmare level should be counted as "normal". Perhaps I shouldn't have played UT2004 before our release... now I always compare our bots with UT ones ... with obvious conclusions <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> I have an idea of fully rewriting bots ai once again, using different way to decide priorities and doing other things, but it will be long job to do, so will try after release maybe.

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:10:52

RambOrc

Yeah, don't restart bot AI from scratch now, it's not perfect but it's MUCH better than it was months ago when I already found it acceptable for a public release. I remember the early days when bots sucked so much playing KA was only justifiable if you were a diehard Hexen retro fan. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I am not sure whether it's been already implemented, but on baby and second easiest skill level don't let the bots spam discs of repulsion, it makes them much harder at times than they really should be (e.g. when you want to use a melee weapon or something like a shotgun that needs you to be pretty close for optimal effect).

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:14:04

Firebrand

IMO we can't compare our bots to those of UT, we are using a very different engine (and old, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />), so it's normal the AI isn't as sharp in KA as it is in UT, I guess bots already work in a good way, yes... I've always said the same, there's room for improvement somewhere <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, and we'll get there, but really, if you compare our last public beta with this internal release, you'll see a HUGE improvement, which is enough for now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. As for baby and easy skill additions, maybe increasing their chance of not using discs of repulsion or flechettes? I'll look into it when testing my new maps <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:21:37

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":2uxtlao2]As for baby and easy skill additions, maybe increasing their chance of not using discs of repulsion or flechettes? I'll look into it when testing my new maps <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. In fact, their usage of discs is sometimes not logical, for example when bot has only melee weapon he should not repel enemy he's chasing after (as they do sometimes now). Well, this one, and also there's one single minor problem in Bots AI that perhaps should be fixed, they sometimes fail to turn to enemy correctly. After all, I suppose KA is 99% ready for public release. I want to add one really small DM map I am making now, inspired by UT2004 DM map "Serpentine"; if you did not see it, it looks like one large room with maze made of zig-zagged "moat". Really good for 2 players duel.

Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:12:21

Firebrand

Sure! I'm still working on maps myself, so anyone wanting to make maps still has this and next week to post it to KDev, then I'll make a new internal release <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:41:48

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":15hfvtub]Sure! I'm still working on maps myself, so anyone wanting to make maps still has this and next week to post it to KDev, then I'll make a new internal release <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />. I suggest you make one this weak, because last internal release had some bad bugs like crashes when bots could not find blue/red team starts in CTF and Football. And also because coding is nearly finished in my opinion, thus we need a "checkpoint" version for others to test too.

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:50:50

RambOrc

And please make full release again and for all patches afterwards only full pk3 and so on files, not single resources since that makes it much more complicated for us testers to have the guaranteed latest version. For all patches the ZIP file should contain the pk3, wad, exe or whatever files and a readme.txt that says the exact location of the files (with certain patches I had trouble determining the right location as the same filename existed in several places in the Vavoom directory tree). <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcinterro.gif" alt="orcinterro" title="orcinterro" />

Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:54:00

Firebrand

I'll upload it this weekend <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:24:22

Crimson Wizard

Added automatical alphabetical sorting of maps list (long time want do). Decided to warn you to prevent questions like "where is the ancient arena map??" (it's 3rd in the DM list now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> )

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:51:05

Crimson Wizard

I have a proposal to plan 2 new game modes to KArena, I'll call them "Survival" and "Invasion". Survival is supposed to be a copy (of sorts <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> ) from UT2004's Invasion mode. Rules are following: you take a common DM map, all players are cooperated; after small delay monsters start to pop out (we may simply use deathmatch starts as their spawn locations). When certain number of monsters are dead players are given a short break, after which a new wave of monsters come in. Monsters become more powerful with each wave, but this is controlled not by map script (that's important since the idea is to use common DM maps) but rather by game code. What's very important: when player is killed in Survival, he/she does not respawn immediately, but have to wait until the end of the monster wave. If all players perish before wave ends, game is over. Players score from fragging monsters and gain extra score for staying alive till end of the monster wave. So, main differences from Castle Sweep are: 1. Any DM map can be used (so no new maps needed) 2. Monsters are spawned instead of using pre-placed ones (so no map hacking needed) 3. Monsters are practically unlimited. 4. You cannot win by killing all monsters, instead you have to survive for as long as possible (or until game time is over). Since no new maps needed this game mode can be put into KA right now, but actually it will need coding some new features, like spectator mode (for players that are killed and awaiting end of monster wave). Invasion is a sort of cross-breeding Survival and classic Assault. In Invasion players are cooperated again and they own some sort of VIO (Very Important Object), or maybe OFI (an Object Of Freaking Importance <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> ). The monsters are spawned on special monster-spawning locations (should be new type of map thing perhaps) and attack not only players, but that Object as well (we may make monsters know that Object's position from the very beginning, so that they will move in right direction). If Object is destroyed, game is lost. Unlike Survival, players respawn normally. However, in this game mode all items respawn only between monster waves. We may make it possible to setup which monsters and items will apear through map script.

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:27:24

Firebrand

Nice ideas! As for the OFI <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />, I think it could be some kind of magical crystal... or something better! How about defending Chaos Spheres? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:09:17

RambOrc

Sounds good, both of them. We could use the Chaos Sphere for the object as a gag.

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:06:04

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":27izugfm]We could use the Chaos Sphere for the object as a gag. I guess defended object may vary. Like Chaos Sphere as a generic one, something else for particular maps to make game more atmospheric... Barrels of Beer, Santa-Claus'es sleds, etc <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:04:43

RambOrc

LOL scratch the chaos sphere, object should be barrels of beer or kegs of ale! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> That reminds me, barrel thing should not have gravity in KA/KRPG so barrels can be stacked up on each other (this modification was already done for KMOD).

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:49:21

Firebrand

LOL, leave alone our ale you dirty monsters!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpoursuite.gif" alt="orcpoursuite" title="orcpoursuite" /> <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught1.gif" alt="orclaught1" title="orclaught1" />

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:44:02

RambOrc

How about spicing up this game mode a bit by actually making it a bar/booze themed mode? Call it "Drunken Defenders" or "Defenders of the Booze" or similar. There are actually a couple of tavern maps around that we could use, reusing the DM maps for this too might make them boring after a time I think.

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:00:09

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":yhyydoew]reusing the DM maps for this too might make them boring after a time I think. I suppose we shouldn't actually resuse any existing map for Invasion mode; I suggested reuse DM maps for Survival, which is different one.

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:03:34

RambOrc

A map you could start off the top of my head is the one called HXTHEBAR (or similar) contained in the SE alpha map package. Not that great a map, but about the right size for testing the game mode and it is a tavern after all. Oh yeah since the mobs are attacking the object players need to defend, it could be simply bashing the kegs until they crack and the booze flows out, at which point the players lose. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:04:31

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":rb8srbkg]How about spicing up this game mode a bit by actually making it a bar/booze themed mode? Don't know... some other interesting mission ideas may come up later. For instance, I was thinking about making a small map for Invasion based on Heretic E1M1 docks where monsters are coming from the seagates and aim to breach the yellow key door (sic!). Like, a defense of Sliverspring or something.
A map you could start off the top of my head is the one called HXTHEBAR
Yeah, I remember that one.

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:07:06

Firebrand

I agree with CW on the mission goals, there might be other interesting goals, but we could also use the 'defend the booze' goal for a map too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />, sounds funny.

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:49:38

RambOrc

I rather like the booze idea because it's original and unique (the very thing we look for in KA game modes after the first few standard modes like DM/CTF/Domination, things like KTH/Football don't really exist in other FPS). The invasion mode could be done for the historic campaign where it's not funny any more as you are the elf fighting for his life against D'Sparil's invading hordes. At any rate, I think it would be better if we would put as much focus as possible on KRPG to have a public release, and put KA aside for the moment. Tweaking KA could be a neverending job as there is always that new idea to implement, and after 9 years it would be really good to finally have the originally planned RPG out. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> It would also be easier to tweak two finished products with small updates, not to mention guaranteed more people giving feedback. I still see it realistic to have KRPG public beta out this year, which would probably give back a lot of people's faith in us (remember the first publicly announced SE release date? I think it was 2002).

Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:01:51

Crimson Wizard

Hmm... okay. Anyway, I already neraly completed Survival mode. It is full playable, but it setting it up and balancing will take some time.

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:15:41

Firebrand

Small question regarding survival, there are variable LoLimit and HiLimit, what are those for??

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:11:17

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3hjejqd4]Small question regarding survival, there are variable LoLimit and HiLimit, what are those for?? Well, that's rather an important question <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> My idea was to make a parametrized progression. It ought to be controlled by following variables: MonsterClasses - is an array of monster class names; should be sorted by approximate monster toughness. BossClasses - is an array of monster boss class names; bosses should be spawned not too often. LoLimit - is a lower index in monster array HiLimit - is a higher index in monster array Basically, when waves count is advanced, both LoLimit and HiLimit may raise, making more powerful monsters appear. BoostedLimit - a highest index in monster array that allows spawning of boosted versions of monsters; boosted monsters should have higher speed and more health. This parameter also should rise with passed wave count. CountToSpawnMonsters - how many monsters to spawn in next wave CountToSpawnBosses - how many bosses to spawn CountMonstersAtOnce - how many monsters & bosses can be on the level at the same time; if current number of monsters is equal or greater than this, no new monsters are spawned until some of older ones are killed. These parameters should be updated before each new wave starts. BTW, honestly saying, Survival looks like much fun than castle sweep already <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> I wonder if it is ok to add some other monsters from Heretic, like Wizards, Weredragons and Iron Liches.

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:53:20

Firebrand

I've been playing with the monster array and added more monsters to spawn after the 3rd wave (I couldn't resist the urge of doing that <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />), I also made Heresiarch to spawn after the 9th wave, it's a real mess on any map, hahaha! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcblackeye.gif" alt="orcblackeye" title="orcblackeye" /> I also like the spectator feature, it's fun to fly around the map, but it would be better if we could allow the player to use the fly down/up buttons to change heights <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. With the info you posted here I'll try to modify my changes and work out something nice <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mrgreen.gif" alt=":mrgreen:" title="Mr. Green" /> .

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:04:05

Crimson Wizard

I've got changes you put on SVN; frankly speaking I don't like when the parametrization looks like a mess, but whatever, this is a question of testing first. Also I noticed that LoLimit stays 0 all the time; I think it should be raised after a while not to spawn weaker monsters, but this will require a bit different approach to spawning Boosted monsters. Another thing - it looks like there's some mistake, CountToSpawnMonsters is never decreased, and CountToSpawnBosses decreased every time any monster spawned instead. What's really important - Dragon should not be spawned, because it requires some tagged map spots on map, and without that he may crash the game. Or, we may create a separate class for Dragon in survival mode, that uses difference AI, like FireDemon's one for instance. Same for Korax - he will call ACS scripts 250-255. Perhaps we should make a copy of Korax for survival mode that never does that. EDIT: ah, yes, and it looks like you multiply boosted Health and Speed values by themselves (square them). EDIT2: and I am not sure its not good idea to use Fighter/Cleric/Mage bosses there, since there will be problem distinguishing them from other players, maybe.

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:46:25

Crimson Wizard

Okay, couple of notes after few tests. 1. Progression should go a bit faster (or maybe more monsters needed in general). Players should feel some pressure from the very first waves. 2. Number of monsters "at once" must depend on level size, or rather number of deathmatch starts. 3. Monster counts, both total and simultaneous, should depend on number of playes in game. 4. Boosted parameters should increase with wave count. 5. Boosted parameters should increase with average player's level. 6. I really suggest adding the rest of Heretic monsters to make game more varied <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:52:37

RambOrc

Using the player class bosses is as monsters in a multiplayer game where those same classes can be met as regular players all the time is, how should I say this... dumb. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> Wyvern and Korax could get simplified AI but that also cheapens them, it's like back in Q3A if you spawned the end boss of the single player campaign into any other maps, he was one of the weakest of all bots. It just makes players lose all respect for those bosses. Yes, feel free to import any further monsters from Heretic, Heretic and Hexen are the two games from which everything can be used, as for those two games Raven Software did actually have an explicit policy, back in the early days of the Korax project I got a reply to my question from Kenn Hoekstra saying that we can use any Heretic resources we want for any Hexen mod. Also, Heretic meshes pretty well with Hexen in KA. Also agree with the suggestion that the lower limit should increase with consequent waves, i.e. there should be no golems or ettins taking slots instead of slaughtaurs or weredragons.

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:05:19

Crimson Wizard

Hmm, testing a bit more with varied waves settings I gathered following knowledge 1. Bots suck <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /> and there's something really wrong with their vertical aiming 2. Player progresses in level too quickly. Perhaps it is because experience he gets from monsters is always the same, while it should decrease while he grows in level. 3. Monster stats should be actually increased by default for Korax Arena. Maybe make them have 3-5 times more health, or something. 4. It's really cool to be 10th level Fighter with a melee-only Quietus and have 30+ monsters in one room <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpoursuite.gif" alt="orcpoursuite" title="orcpoursuite" /> slash slash slash slash slash massacre!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:43:45

Firebrand

I would suggest to 'boost' monsters by default (i.e. after spawning them increase their health by 1.5 or maybe even by 2 or 3 and if this works as we want then adjust the value for boosted monsters <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />). As for quantity of monsters, I think they should increase too, but it's going to take a few more tests to fix properly IMO. It's easier to measure monsters by deathmatch starts, bigger maps will have more deathmatch starts <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc^^.gif" alt="orc^^" title="orc^^" /> . I also agree in that monster counts should depend on players in game. Maybe we'll need to further play with boosted parameters in each wave. I'll get to work on converting the sprites and importing them to the PK3 files, all of the Heretic monsters will appear there (even the boss monsters) <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil.gif" alt=":evil:" title="Evil or Very Mad" /> . I've modified the wyvern to chase as a regular monster instead of it's normal chasing method. I also think we should modify Korax, but it will require writing some new attacks from scratch (since it uses scripts for special attacks). I don't know how it will work, but I'll try to come up with something <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. EDIT: I think this gameplay mode rules!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_clap.gif" alt="=D>" title="Applause" />

Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:26:09

RambOrc

Can you spawn (player number) * monster at each deathmatch start? That would take care of the monster vs player ratio.

Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:06:50

Crimson Wizard

As an example, I used following formulae for testing:
// (8 + (0 to 7)) monsters per player + (1 to 4) monsters per player per wave index CountToSpawnMonsters = (8 + P_Random() % 8) * PlayerCount + (P_Random() % (PlayerCount << 2) + 1) * Wave; CountToSpawnBosses = Wave / (8 - PlayerCount); // (1 to 2) per spawn start (i.e. at least 8 - 16) CountMonstersAtOnce = P_Random() % ((SpawnStarts << 1) + 1); HiLimit = 1 + Wave; if (HiLimit > MonsterClasses.Num) HiLimit = MonsterClasses.Num; LoLimit = HiLimit >= 8 ? HiLimit - 8 : 0; BoostedLimit = -2 + (Wave - 1) / 2;

Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:03:44

Crimson Wizard

I fixed KArena Config for Doombuilder 2 and its fully working, maybe only sprites missing for some things. It looks like DB2 now requires full description for each item, read: more complex config. OTOH there are some nice features like customizable enumerators for thing arguments that allow to select argument value by its convenient name from drop-down list, instead of manually typing in code. For KA I configured Team enum for all team objects (colored decor and such).

Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:24:04

Firebrand

I'll give it a check tomorrow morning and add sprites for objects as needed. I want to comment that there is one remaining bug in survival game mode, after you reach wave 5 the game says that 6 monsters remain, it seems they aren't spawned because of the CountMonstersAtOnce variable, but when you kill the monsters, the map stays without any monsters and the game stops spawning new enemies... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /> .

Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:14:06

Crimson Wizard

*Yawn* Silly game mode idea: a big tennis. Players split into 2 teams, each team on their side of map, divided by impassable line. Everyone have reflective invulnerability powerup with unlimited duration (the one that makes projectiles bounce off player body). A ball (or some missile) is launched and begin bouncing around. Game aim is to make a ball bounce into opposite gates. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccrazy2.gif" alt="orccrazy2" title="orccrazy2" />

Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:21:18

Firebrand

LOL, the only thing to take care would be the ball physics control, the DOOM engine has wacky physics and the ball needs to be controlled somehow.

Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:30:56

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3cjti6up] the only thing to take care would be the ball physics control, the DOOM engine has wacky physics and the ball needs to be controlled somehow. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_crxqeJKRRk">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_crxqeJKRRk</a>

Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:56:58

Firebrand

LOL, that video shows that I might be wrong, hehe! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> I would make it a bit more challenging, how about having to make shots destroy something behind the opposing team? We could make special projectile that follows a certain object or something like that <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:52:43

Firebrand

OK, just some update on how things are on my side... I'm still working to reestablish my development computer, I think that today I'll have it set up to at least begin working on the map I was working on before this mess, I´ll keep you updated on my progress <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, I wanted to make the release during this weekend, but it might take a bit longer, it seems.

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:37:50

Crimson Wizard

I played "Sacrifice" recently.. quite an old game, but now I have an idea of what "Summoning" KA mode may look like.

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:41:42

RambOrc

That's interesting since I created the concept for Summon Contest but never even heard of Sacrifice (my ideas came mostly from RTS games). Got a link?

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:59:22

Crimson Wizard

Hmm... <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrifice_%28computer_game%29">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrifice_ ... er_game%29</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20020408221530/www.sacrifice.net/index2.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/200204082215 ... index2.htm</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Sacrifice+game&search_type=&aq=f">http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f</a> Well, idea is, briefly speaking, that you control a Hero mystic who summons monsters; you must defend the "Altar" of your God, and conquer and defend Mana sources. In the end you must desecrate enemy's Altar to win.

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:00:48

Firebrand

Definitely I'll give it a check ASAP. My idea for summoning comes from an old doom sourceport, I don't really recall the name, but I will try to look for a link to it and post it here <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:49

Crimson Wizard

We have this problem, after a new launcher has been made for KA, based on 'widgets' lib, it seem to store configuration in different place. Karena.exe quick-launcher yet reads them from original registry. I need to know where KAlauncher actually stores all settings to make karena.exe read them and start game properly.

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:52:36

Firebrand

Settings are stored inside Korax/kalaunch registry key, do you need them to be stored somewhere else?

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:05:53

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":roq9vu9s]Settings are stored inside Korax/kalaunch registry key, do you need them to be stored somewhere else? Originally (when I made first KA launcher) it was KoraxTeam/kalaunch (in registry they usually create folders using company name).