Back to the Korax Forum Archives


Forum

KMOD2 beta testing

Wed, 05 Dec 2001 06:10:00

RambOrc

OK here the 1st bunch of bugs... I started with the fighter on skill 3 and went in a session as far in the Seven Portals where the 2nd middle door opens up to give you access to the 2nd part of the Guardian of Ice level, just where you encounter Wendigos for the 1st time. - right at the beginning (character generation), there's a typo, at the end of the word battle rage the word strength is attached (same on the stats update screen) - the announcement messages at new levels seem to be missing the character class, it seems the messages of all 3 classes are displayed at once, at least with the fighter - also, about the text scrolling, maybe it would make more sense the other way around (i.e. that the newer text is in the 2nd line), with the current config you get messages like "in the seven portals you've solved one third of the puzzle" [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] - the berserker taint (yellow screen) is less obvious than before, did you do it on purpose or is it my imagination only? - if you return from berserker mode, you always have WAY more health than your max health - After chopping around with the mana-loaded axe some, I ended up with -5 blue mana - the fighter is getting too strong too fast, on level 4 already w/o berserker spell I was extremely fast (speed 19), and when using berserker I could smash 5 green bulls in melee w/o getting hit even once - this is just too easy, it should work this way in the Heresiarch's Seminary but not toward the middle of Seven Portals - the message "you need to be level 5 to use mana" comes up a 100 times when you walk through a single mana crystal (it was a bug already in KMOD, just nobody commented on it). my suggestion is to build in a time limit, i.e. if this message was displayed, it won't be displayed again unless the last display was more than 5 seconds ago or there have been other messages in the meantime. That's it for the first short run, get ready for more in the near future... one single beta tester, not enough, humph... [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Also, a latecomer suggestion, if it's not too much work, it'd be nice if you could switch between mana-loaded and unloaded axe (by pressing the 2 key repeatedly), so that you could save mana when it's not needed. But do it only if it doesn't need much hassle. And once again, nice work! Keep it up [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Wed, 05 Dec 2001 09:44:00

Ichor

After testing it for a bit, and getting as far as about halfway through the first hub, I noticed two things. The first one is somewhat rare, but it can be annoying. Every so often, the statistics menu (by pressing 'u') becomes too large to fit completely on the screen. An example picture is here. The second one had me stumped for quite a while until I realized just what was wrong. Every time you gain a level, any new spells, weapons (wand for instance) and powers are displayed, regardless of your class. Example 1 Example 2 Example 3 I spent about fifteen minutes trying to get the fighter to use the blue wand, heheheh. And as for the berserk, maybe instead of increasing his health, then decreasing it again, keep the same health, then hurt him (and maybe even slow his speed and attacks down a bit) as he recovers from exhaustion.
Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:36:00

Tzar Sectus

Holy Llama, guess this is gonna become a busy day... well, I was expecting a whole bunch of bugs anyway, the way I've been programming lately is just to program without any playtesting, I just barely loaded up the program after a compile "Okay, the game doesn't crash, time to program a new feature...". Ichor, that bug where the info screen ("U") gets too large has been in the beginning since the first release of Korax Mod 1, it gets that way after you've entered and quited the normal menu too fast (while it was zooming in). Anyway, I've got two bugs to report myself: -If you possess an Afrit and return to yourself willingly, the Afrit you had possessed becomes immortal -If you spawn (through summon spell) a Bishop he appears totally black permanently after a few seconds -Remi
Wed, 05 Dec 2001 21:50:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
- right at the beginning (character generation), there's a typo, at the end of the word battle rage the word strength is attached (same on the stats update screen)
I looked into this, and found that the bug appeared because the Battle Rage name is *one* symbol too long. And I couldn't manage to find out why the code rejected the long name. Any chance that battle rage could be instead called battlerage? -Remi
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 00:00:00

RambOrc

The menu prob can be "solved" by using the "force tex reload" option in the graphics menu, and it's a jHexen bug so if you want it to be corrected, drop a note to SkyJake. The wrong message bug has been reported by me as well, see the 1st posting on this topic, bug #2. If "battlerage" is displayed OK, then go ahead... I was trying to think of a better word and thought of "prowess" and "tension", but they aren't too good. BTW while I was looking for a good word, I stumbled upon "rice pudding", it'd be maybe the best name, but I guess it's too long as well... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I've made a really simple shop map with all the items, I also mostly added the linedefs (only the price table is left), trouble is the fucking thing doesn't work... as soon as I see Camper, I'll shove his damned head into his monitor, this part of the shopping code did work more than half a year ago, back before we even started Korax Mod... so there are now 2 things he'll have to code.
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 02:25:00

RambOrc

Guess what, I'm a stupid mindfucked idiot, the shop works! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I just made the same mistake for the umpteenth time, i.e. forgetting to make a linedef repeatable... now you can buy the stuff just fine, and the good thing is the linedef itself defines the price so you won't have to code a price table. That means all you need to do is code in that the monsters drop the bars and the money is added to your money count when collecting silver and gold bars. Also, as 1 silver bar = 1 money and 1 gold bar = 5 money, there is only one kind of currency in KMOD2, so I'm going to use the 2nd money field in WadAuthor (which corresponds to the smaller of the 2 currencies). Also, about the release date, I made myself some thoughts and I think the very best coverage for KMOD2 would be to be released before the RavenGames special event so we can make the announcement separately and send it out to all sites, AND still feature KMOD2 on the special event where it would get even more coverage. I made a quick estimation and I'd say I can hold the RG event back for a week, i.e. make it start on the 17th December. That means KMOD2 should come out on the 12th at latest (next Wednesday), that leaves this weekend fully for testing and the beginning of next week for desperate last-minute bugfixes and patches... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] For me it seems like a deadline that could be met, do you see it the same way too, Remi?
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 04:13:00

Ichor

This is rather strange. It seems that when loading a savegame where the mage was used, it loaded it using a fighter weapon (namely the fists). Once I hit the '1' button, it selected the wand. However, before I did that, I could use the fists as if I was a fighter. Example pictures 1 and 2 This only happens when you start a new game from DOS or a batch file, and then load a saved game. It won't happen if you load it again a second time while playing.
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 04:32:00

Ichor

I also discovered that it does this for the cleric as well. I think when it loads the game, any weapon you may have gets replaced with the fists as if you selected them (the weapon lowering, then the fists raising), even if the weapon happens to be the second weapon like the Serpent Staff.
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:18:00

Tzar Sectus

Just a little note to you guys. I've managed to defeat all the current bugs, so you just keep on finding more so I have enough work to do! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
If "battlerage" is displayed OK, then go ahead... I was trying to think of a better word and thought of "prowess" and "tension", but they aren't too good. BTW while I was looking for a good word, I stumbled upon "rice pudding", it'd be maybe the best name, but I guess it's too long as well...
Actually, I managed to fix the Battle Rage spelling error totally (it was insanely obvious to fix, it shows me that there's still a bunch of basic things in C I'm yet to learn, unfortunately... ah well, practise makes perfect). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
For me it seems like a deadline that could be met, do you see it the same way too, Remi?
I'm pretty darn sure we can do it. As long as we playtest thoroughly enough and find the bugs... the programming part is going just smoothly. -Remi
Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:31:00

RambOrc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I'm pretty darn sure we can do it. As long as we playtest thoroughly enough and find the bugs... the programming part is going just smoothly.
That's very good... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] in this case, I'll go ahead and make the title/credit pages with the winter look to match the theme of the RavenGames event (I already made the shop with ice textures all over). I'd be glad if you could push a shop-enabled runtime in my way by Saturday evening (say, 18:00 Central European time) so I can play the game through with one character class and see how good the price system is going. For this, following is needed: - define a new map 32 (or whatever number you want) in the code so that I can give this number to my shop map - make the game access this shop map every time a hub is left, and make it save the info so the game knows which hub you should enter after leaving the shop again. If this is too complicated, then just go ahead and create 5 new map numbers and make the game exit from one hub to one of these maps, from another hub to another of these maps etc., in this case I'll just save the shop map 5x and give it each time a different #, also give it each time a different map to exit to (but I think the first version is better). - if monsters are not yet dropping treasure, make them do it before Saturday evening [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] - make Wings of Wrath expire after a short time (just copy the code snippet over from the multiplayer part) BTW another thing for multiplayer, would it be possible that when a player dies, a part of his artifacts and mana appears over his dead body so someone else can pick it up? Let's say the prog should determine for every item one by one whether it will get lost or appear over the body, every time having 33% chance for appearing for artifacts? (with mana, for every 50 green and every 50 blue mana one single mana crystal should appear, that's a bit less than half then)
Fri, 07 Dec 2001 03:11:00

Ichor

Or possibly using something similar to the Hexen 2 method, which is to drop a backpack containing a random number of ammo or things that player had. For instance, if he had 150 blue mana, 30 green mana, 5 quartz flasks, a boots of speed, and three flechettes, you could have it drop a backpack containing a random number of blue mana up to 150 (if at all), a random number of green mana up to 30, up to five quartz flasks if there are any, etc. This way, you won't have a bunch of things hanging around the body, but one nice, neat backpack.
Fri, 07 Dec 2001 04:21:00

Ichor

I think I just found something. When I was on the last part of the first hub, I got the Wings of Wrath. Everything seemed alright. I activated them using the fly up key (PgUp) and it worked fine. Then I used the Home key to deactivate them (icon still there, but not spinning). The problem started when I tried to reactivate them again. It wouldn't work again. Using the PgUp normally would work, but it would not. Unfortunately, I found out the hard way as I was attempting to fight those afrits about halfway down the chasm. I hit the Home key to get down there faster, and hit the PgUp key to stop the plummet. I think we all know what happened next, heheheh.
Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:17:00

RambOrc

Go ahead Remi and implement my version or Ichor's, the choice is yours. [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Fri, 07 Dec 2001 21:18:00

RambOrc

Oh my, what a stupid graemlin... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:41:00

Ichor

A couple of things: First, the multiple message problem for the mana may be fixed, but not for the armors (mage trying to pick up the helmet), the banishment device, etc. Second: Is it me, or are all the sounds being played at full volume, no matter how far away they come from?
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:46:00

Tzar Sectus

I'm sorry to say I haven't really done much today. I woke up feeling like a wreck, like if I never have slept a second, and I had this horrible headache. I've spent most of the day just resting, I did manage though to implement most of the code related the shop thingy... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>- make the game access this shop map every time a hub is left, and make it save the info so the game knows which hub you should enter after leaving the shop again. If this is too complicated, then just go ahead and create 5 new map numbers and make the game exit from one hub to one of these maps, from another hub to another of these maps etc., in this case I'll just save the shop map 5x and give it each time a different #, also give it each time a different map to exit to (but I think the first version is better).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wish I could say I've done it the first way but it would take just far too much time. It's in a part of the code I'm yet to learn all about, so I think the second way would be best for now (definitely if we're going to release the mod soon). Repeat the shop map five times? *scratches head* Doesn't the game have only 3 hubs? Or am I just stupid? Anyway, could you also give me the map numbers when the shops should kick in (the numbers of the start maps of the hubs)? Also remember we need to have some graphical sprites for the silver and gold bars (give the sprites the names "SILVA1" and "GOLDA1"). And yeah, one idea, since we're going to repeat the shop so many times, some differences in the shops would be nice, so it feels like different shops. Some texture changes, some physical changes in the shop maps, if it wouldn't too long that is. -Remi
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 03:55:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Second: Is it me, or are all the sounds being played at full volume, no matter how far away they come from?
That's because of the inferior sound engine the Doomsday engine has. -Remi
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:29:00

RambOrc

Point well taken with those other messages, we just didn't think of it. Remi, just don't overdo it... my goal is a cool gameplay mod that's been fun to make and not a dying wretch in the northern icelands... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] 5 new shops? OK, then I'll make the little changes I thought to make the first time, like making available puzzle items of the next hub in the shop (if you e.g. buy all the gears before entering Hub 4, you will have nearly instant access to the Gibbet). I'd like to add the keys as well, but I'm not sure how, as the artifact list Camper compiled for me (see the bottom of this posting) contains only stuff you have in your inventory, thus as long as I don't know the numbers for other stuff (like armor, mana and keys), shops won't sell everything one might like them to. OTOH I don't think it'd make sense to change the look of the shops... unlike in a real RPG, here you access one shop map only once in the game, so you see the same shop only 5x if there's no difference. In Korax Alpha where you might visit the same shop dozens of times in a game, it'll make a lot more sense to create detailed shop interiors. Here I feel it to be a waste of time. Not to mention that there's only one winter theme to make with the single ice texture Hexen has [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Shop #1: After exiting the Seven Portals, before you enter Shadow Wood (which is map 07 in Hexen 1.0 but it seems there's a prob with it in Hexen 1.1? I'm not sure. Maybe it's the other way around, or something entirely different) Shop #2: After exiting The Hypostyle, before entering the Heresiarch's Seminary (which is map 13) Shop #3: After exiting the Heresiarch's Seminary, before entering the Castle of Grief (map 21) Shop #4: After exiting the Gibbet, before entering Necropolis (map 26) Shop #5: After exiting the Necropolis for the last time, before entering the Dark Crucible (map 31). If there wouldn't be a shop here as well, what's the reason to collect treasure in the whole Necropolis episode? BTW I ain't no conjurer, got it all from http://www.ravengames.com/hexen/hexen_maplist.html [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
That's because of the inferior sound engine the Doomsday engine has.
Just to be on the pessimistic side, the sound engine Vavoom uses didn't impress me as any better, so there might not be any improvement on this front even in later projects like Korax Alpha and the Serpent Power. (? propos later projects, it seems I'm slowly going to find an official name for Korax Alpha, currently I was thinking of "Korax' Heritage: The Temple of the Damned" or something similar, as there will be an underground temple somewhere with Korax worshippers and this will be the last map(s) and there will be the uber-heresiarch who'll be the end boss this time.) 2 more things coming to my mind: - Camper belched some "info" in my direction, something like the cheats are console commands, i.e. you should leave all cheat sections commented out and rather look for console commands and insert the new cheats there - insert 2-3 empty variables into the savegame, it was a good thing in KMOD 1.1 that we had some unused Korax Alpha variables in the savegame (like hunger and weariness), so Camper could use them to fix some probs and still make the 1.1 savegames compatible with 1.0 ones ---------------------------------- Appendix: Artifact list 0 arti_none, 1 arti_invulnerability, 2 arti_health, 3 arti_superhealth, 4 arti_healingradius, 5 arti_summon, 6 arti_torch, 7 arti_egg, 8 arti_fly, 9 arti_blastradius, 10 arti_poisonbag, 11 arti_teleportother, 12 arti_speed, 13 arti_boostmana, 14 arti_boostarmor, 15 arti_teleport, // Puzzle artifacts 16 arti_firstpuzzitem, 16 arti_puzzskull = arti_firstpuzzitem, 17 arti_puzzgembig, 18 arti_puzzgemred, 19 arti_puzzgemgreen1, 20 arti_puzzgemgreen2, 21 arti_puzzgemblue1, 22 arti_puzzgemblue2, 23 arti_puzzbook1, 24 arti_puzzbook2, 25 arti_puzzskull2, 26 arti_puzzfweapon, 27 arti_puzzcweapon, 28 arti_puzzmweapon, 29 arti_puzzgear1, 30 arti_puzzgear2, 31 arti_puzzgear3, 32 arti_puzzgear4, NUMARTIFACTS
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:50:00

RambOrc

some more bugs in the berserker spell: - the gauntlets are insanely fast (the axe seems to be OK) - if you snap out, you still have way more health than your max one Also, are the mage's new spells on the 2nd keyboard row implemented/mapped or not yet? Couldn't access them. Possession seems to be working fine, interesting that monsters who start to attack the player character can be made to fight the possessed monster instead if it attacks them. spirits within looks cool as well, it's been kinda funny as the ghosts broke the stained glass windows [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] BTW Ichor, in case you not yet knew there is a development cheat in KMOD/KMOD2 called octomont: octomont experience XY octomont level XY octomont money XY dunno whether it's just the cheat or it's the same way when playing normally through, but if I press 1 when having the yellow wand, the red one comes up, then the grey, then the blue (the order should be blue-grey-red)
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:52:00

Ichor

Another idea is to have a different market map as part of each hub that can be visited whenever you want. Each town would have it's own shop that would be some kind of hub center. When you go to a new hub, it would be like traveling to a far-off land, with it's own shop, merchandise, and prices. With you in the new town, you can't very well go back to the old shop unless you go all the way back to the old town, which is really not worth it since you're on a quest and the new town shop will have better things to buy. Also, if you make it so that you go to the shop whenever you leave the hub, and only when you leave the hub, you won't be able to go back if you end up making a mistake. By the way, have you ever considered a shop where along with buying things, you sell artifacts or mana you may have picked up for money or better things?
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:33:00

Ichor

After using the cheat I just now found out about, I tried the possession for the first time. Two things: First, the possessed Wendigo seems to fire two sets of shots each time you fire, one towards where you're aiming and one seemingly towards your stationary body. Oh yeah, and a possessed Chaos Serpent makes a swinging sound like the Ettin instead of the biting sound when using the melee attack. Second, when you possess something, maybe you could show the health of the thing instead of your own, especially since your health doesn't seem to show a decrease (even though it does decrease) when something hits your old body. [ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Ichor ]
Sat, 08 Dec 2001 07:05:00

Ichor

Another curious thing I might have found. If you possess something and that thing gets killed, you seem to return with the health of that thing. For instance, warp to map 27 and go to that deep pit. Then possess a Bishop and let it get killed. When you return back in your own body, you will have the health of a Bishop, despite what the health display says. After returning to your body, let the other Bishops fire at you. Normally you would die in the first few seconds, but instead you may feel the pain like normal, but your health meter won't go down for a long time since the Bishop has so much health to start with.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 02:30:00

Ichor

Here's a wacky idea. How about combining the Spirits Within and Summon spells to make, maybe an "Animate Dead" spell for the cleric. The cleric would point to a dead monster and activate the spell. The monster would be revived to fight with him as if he was summoned (with the slight chance that it will go wild and seek revenge on you for killing it). This way, you will have some control over what monster you use, and the more powerful the monster was, the more faith is required for the spell to be successful. Of course, certain extremely powerful monsters can't be revived unless the cleric was at least level 15-20 (Korax and probably the Heresiarches will, undoubtedly, be exempt) and like the Possession spell, you can only use this spell on one monster at a time.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 04:01:00

RambOrc

Hey big bug, just start a game with the fighter and press Q at the beginning and you'll get the message "you're already berserking" though it should tell "you don't have enough Battle Rage to go berserk". Ichor, to your shop and new spell ideas, the place for them is Korax Alpha which will be a real RPG and not just a gameplay mod on the same old lousy Hexen maps as KMOD2 is... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Korax Alpha will feature a town with half a dozen or so shops where you can buy and sell stuff. And the new cleric spell is a cool idea, it's filed away for Korax Alpha, where I want to introduce a bunch of additional spells anyway (what's a mage good for with less spells than fingers? LOL). AFAIK you should see the possessed thing's health. At least with the Slaughtaur, for me it showed 1200 and not the less than 100 the mage has. Same with the Ettin.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 04:10:00

Ichor

I noticed the health of the thing too, but only if the screen was at it's maximum size. With the screen at it's normal size it only shows the mage's health.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 18:40:00

RambOrc

Ah OK... I played Hexen already back in the DOS version with max screen size, and now that you see mana on the screen there's even less reason to use the status bar.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 20:09:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I thought Ettins have a 25% chance to drop silver? My first Ettin dropped silver, then I killed 20 more and none of them did...
Are you sure? Even though it's unlikely this has to be a coincidence. The times I've been testing it it seems to have been just fine, the monsters drop silver/gold at the right times for me. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Also, you made the same mistake I and Camper did several times before, i.e. with the 2 new sprites you defined some other sprites lost themselves, e.g. on the place of the silver key there was a blue mage, on the place of blue mana the fighter's gauntlets (and it also made the game crash at this point). As deadline is coming fast, maybe we should leave out the physical action of treasure collecting and simply add the money to the player's purse when killing a monster? Kinda lame but better than crashes... Also, I hope there haven't been too many changes between yesterday's build and Friday's build, as the Saturday build is crashing all the time and so I'll test the Friday build for multiplayer with Camper, we start in 5 minutes from now
Grrrrr... why is everyone getting problems I don't have? I'm playing with almost the same build I gave you and I'm not having these problems! The only crash I'm having, is because the gold sprite won't show itself because there's no physical sprite to use. The blue mana shows correctly, the silver key is completely okay for me... try to temporarily make some sprites for the silver and gold bar and then try it out. It *should* work! It works for me! By the way, the Friday and Saturday builds are more or less identical, except that the Saturday build has more bug fixes and it has the shop code. I'm respond to the other posts later, right now I'm going to make this shop thingy work perfectly. -Remi [ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 20:09:00

Tzar Sectus

(whoops, double post) [ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:02:00

RambOrc

Here goes the multiplayer for good... The best thing you can say is that it has basic functionality (unlike in Korax Mod 1.0). You can play and do things like crouching, spellcasting and accessing the stats screen without the game disconnecting, so it's definitely not VERY bad. OTOH there are things that haven't been thought of (like that the stats update themselves on a new level, and they never update speed which is 10 at the start), and things not yet implemented (like that spells like healing and invulnerability affect other players as well, i.e. Camper as cleric couldn't heal my fighter). Except for that, there aren't many bugs, I only found 2 this far, a small and a large... the small is that if you die while berserking, your doubled values will remain after you resurrect (or whatever else does happen, dunno), and so with a level 5 fighter I had a strength of 40 and a speed of 30. The large bug is that after playing half a hub, we got the message "netgame ends" and it disconnected. The first time it happened after finishing about 2/3 of the Seven Portals hub, pretty much at the same moment when the cleric reached level 6 (which was maybe 20 seconds after the fighter did). It was after about 40 minutes of playing. Then we started as mage and cleric in Shadow Wood. This time we were somewhat over level 5 when after 20 minutes of playing the game disconnected, and this time there was absolutely nothing special happening just before the disconnection. That means tracking down this bug might take a lot of time (if possible at all), and this makes all other bugs and missing features unimportant. Not to mention we've got no idea how to restore a net savegame, and this is a Q for SkyJake. Conclusion: don't even touch the multiplayer part any more. If you aren't very picky, you can enjoy cooperative for maybe half an hour currently, and I don't think many folks will want more than that. I'd say we'll leave patching up multiplayer for 2.1 - and it also doesn't make sense to put any big effort into it, as the only other project ever we'll make on the Doomsday engine is Korax Alpha and it won't have any kind of multiplayer. Also, for more bad news, it seems Camper won't make the extra cheats, so I'd say let's postpone this for Korax Alpha as well. This means the only things to fix are the bugs Ichor and I mentioned in this forum, plus anything related to the shops. Since it is now announced when you have a new spell, the spell screen I mentioned a couple of days ago isn't important neither, so just skip it (there'll be a graphical one for Korax Alpha). I'll make the title/credit/help screens for the release. But I don't know how to create the entries for the new sprites in a WAD file. I know only how to replace existing entries. Ichor, would you be willing to create a wadfile with the 2 sprites Remi defined, and create the 2D graphics with the help of the models I sent you by e-mail just a minute ago? It'd be great help. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:17:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I'd like to add the keys as well, but I'm not sure how, as the artifact list Camper compiled for me (see the bottom of this posting) contains only stuff you have in your inventory, thus as long as I don't know the numbers for other stuff (like armor, mana and keys), shops won't sell everything one might like them to.
Sorry, but the buy routine has been made a way that you can only buy artifacts (and keys, armour and mana isn't technically artifacts). I'd have to rewrite a good deal of the code to it make accept keys'n'stuff as well, and we're aiming at speed right now, right? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
- Camper belched some "info" in my direction, something like the cheats are console commands, i.e. you should leave all cheat sections commented out and rather look for console commands and insert the new cheats there
Whaaaaaat? What "new" cheats? I want to reactivate the old cheats, not make new ones... so, as I see it, the only reasonable way to do this is make uncomment the old code, instead of making new ones. Much faster... Camper! Give me that cheat code or I'll transform you into a duck!!! Hmmm... is the cheats so important anyway? I've managed to do my playtesting without using any cheats. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
- insert 2-3 empty variables into the savegame, it was a good thing in KMOD 1.1 that we had some unused Korax Alpha variables in the savegame (like hunger and weariness), so Camper could use them to fix some probs and still make the 1.1 savegames compatible with 1.0 ones
I swear this is going to be the weirdest thing I've ever done in programming, but allright I'll do it. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>some more bugs in the berserker spell: - the gauntlets are insanely fast (the axe seems to be OK) - if you snap out, you still have way more health than your max one<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Grrrr, that's because I haven't gotten time yet to fix the berserker spell, so just wait a wee bit. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Also, are the mage's new spells on the 2nd keyboard row implemented/mapped or not yet? Couldn't access them.
I sort of... eh... never did remap the keys in the code [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] But all the spell keys are remapable for your convenience in the options menu. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
dunno whether it's just the cheat or it's the same way when playing normally through, but if I press 1 when having the yellow wand, the red one comes up, then the grey, then the blue (the order should be blue-grey-red)
The order is meant to be red->yellow. Take this for example, you're currently equipped with the lightning weapon and you run out of ammo and want to use a wand, what wand should come first? Red, grey, blue or yellow? Red of course, and if you press 1 again, you get the neat grey wand and so on. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I noticed the health of the thing too, but only if the screen was at it's maximum size. With the screen at it's normal size it only shows the mage's health.
I was really confused at first when I read your original possessed bug posts, since I always play in full screen mode as well. Stupid stupid stupid stupid evil Raven who made two health variables for some weird evil reason. Perhaps I should make it so that whenever you possess a creature you're *forced* to play fullscreen? That way you only see information which is related to the possessed monster. What do you guys suggest? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Another curious thing I might have found. If you possess something and that thing gets killed, you seem to return with the health of that thing. For instance, warp to map 27 and go to that deep pit. Then possess a Bishop and let it get killed. When you return back in your own body, you will have the health of a Bishop, despite what the health display says. After returning to your body, let the other Bishops fire at you. Normally you would die in the first few seconds, but instead you may feel the pain like normal, but your health meter won't go down for a long time since the Bishop has so much health to start with.
Can you recreate this bug? I messed around with the possess spell for a while and the player got the correct health each time I left the monster. Okay, I'll just be off to fix more bugs *sigh* -Remi [ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Tzar Sectus ]
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:21:00

RambOrc

Just got the latest build, it's definitely an improvement, the 4 shops between hubs are working fine now, only the 5th shop before the Dark Crucible makes the game quit with an error message (it doesn't find the between-hub text). W_GetNumForName: clus5msg not found! Also, sprites are still strangely behaving, most of the time silver looks like the axe shards from the fighter, but once it looked like a dying mage, and once I think there was no sprite there at all. Also, at one point there was something nonexisting displayed, as the game just crashed. It might be how and what wad files are loaded on which system. This is my autoexec.cfg (don't forget the empty line after the last entry!): load kmod.wad load rsword.wad load shop1.wad load shop2.wad load shop3.wad load shop4.wad load shop5.wad
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:26:00

Ichor

Ok, the sprite wadfile has been created, with the gold bar as 'gbara0' and the silver bar as 'sbara0'. Now then, do you want this thing to lay on the ground or have it bobbing like an artifact (and used like one too)? If you want it bobbing, then I'll need to change the offset a bit, which is very easy.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:29:00

Ichor

I've recreated that possession health bug several times, usually using the Bishop. I could try with other monsters, but it won't be obvious unless I use the real tough ones.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:31:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Just got the latest build, it's definitely an improvement, the 4 shops between hubs are working fine now, only the 5th shop before the Dark Crucible makes the game quit with an error message (it doesn't find the between-hub text). W_GetNumForName: clus5msg not found!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Teehee, I know why this bug appears, should be easy to fix. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Also, sprites are still strangely behaving, most of the time silver looks like the axe shards from the fighter, but once it looked like a dying mage, and once I think there was no sprite there at all. Also, at one point there was something nonexisting displayed, as the game just crashed.
That graphical garble depends on the angle you see it, if I remember correct, one shows the cleric, one shows a mage, one shows the axe puff, one shows the fighter gauntles, one shows nothing, and one angle crashes the game. Quite a weird bug. Anyway, all the bugs related to the silver/gold sprite is fixable by putting silver/gold sprites in a wad file. (if you use Wintex, just choose "edit->load entry from file", write SILVA0, choose some bmp file, then do the same for the gold sprite (GOLDA0)). -Remi
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:35:00

RambOrc

Whoa, cross-posting again... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Forget about adding anything to the buy routine... it might've been cooler, but it's not that important... you see, all the cool features we can't get in under deadline will just make it to Korax Alpha, which will use the KMOD(2) engine, with a couple of old things re-enabled from the pre-KMOD code like journal, day-night changes. Any ideas not finished up this time will be added there (plus some new ones). And as it's scheduled for about 3 months from now, ppl won't have to wait really long for the features not implemented this time. You see, unlike with most projects, in the case of KMOD2 if you don't finish or perfect a feature, it's not lost forever, as Korax Alpha will be basically a KMOD(2) with still more features and - at last - new maps. As mentioned above, forget about the cheats completely, they aren't important enough when deadline's looming [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Not to mention that the artifact cheat is more or less covered by you being able to go to a shop, use the money cheat and buy all the stuff you need. Oh yes, some kind of display somewhere in the game wouldn't bad where you'd see how much money you've got. It can be on the screen like the SP, or it can be in the stats update screen, or it can be on the automap screen, it doesn't matter, make it on the place where it's easiest. For the wand, whatever you have currently in the code is OK, it didn't feel very confusing in multiplayer. Fullscreen force for monster possession, why not? It even makes sense, as none of the variables on the status bar has anything to do with your possessed monster. Do it any way you want, it sounds good either way. BTW just a Q, what key do you have to press to get out of the monster? p.s. this last minute desperate tolding-folding might seem unprofessional to you too, but I've gained some insight into the gaming industry over the course of this last year, and I can tell you it's pretty common to do it this way in professional developing studios... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:35:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Ok, the sprite wadfile has been created, with the gold bar as 'gbara0' and the silver bar as 'sbara0'. Now then, do you want this thing to lay on the ground or have it bobbing like an artifact (and used like one too)? If you want it bobbing, then I'll need to change the offset a bit, which is very easy.
Name the sprites "SILVA0" and "GOLDA0"!!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I've recreated that possession health bug several times, usually using the Bishop. I could try with other monsters, but it won't be obvious unless I use the real tough ones.
Well, I tried it a bit, but I whenever I died as the Bishop I returned to myself with the correct health. Do you die in some specific circumstances or...? -Remi
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:45:00

Ichor

Ok, they've been renamed. No problem. And as for the bug, I tried doing it again, and as expected, I can't do it again, even when I was in the same place on the same map using the same monsters. Oh well...
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:45:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Whoa, cross-posting again... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I've noticed that... got me a wee bit confused a while. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Oh yes, some kind of display somewhere in the game wouldn't bad where you'd see how much money you've got. It can be on the screen like the SP, or it can be in the stats update screen, or it can be on the automap screen, it doesn't matter, make it on the place where it's easiest.
I've forgotten to mention I've already done that, just press 'u' in the recent build I sent you [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
BTW just a Q, what key do you have to press to get out of the monster?
Enter/return [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
p.s. this last minute desperate tolding-folding might seem unprofessional to you too, but I've gained some insight into the gaming industry over the course of this last year, and I can tell you it's pretty common to do it this way in professional developing studios... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Woohoo, we're acting like complete lunatics but that also makes us professionals! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] -Remi
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:51:00

RambOrc

ROFL there's some life in here, I posted something and while I typed it a new message came in from Remi... in my next posting I complain about cross-posting and what happens? While I finish up that posting, 3 new postings arrive in the meantime... and while I type this one, another 3 come in... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] But great job, ppl! I really enjoy working with people who've got motivation... after testing MP with an unmotivated Camper and trying unsuccessfully to make him do those cheats, I didn't really feel much enthusiasm myself, but you 2 give me my faith back. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And as for the bug, I tried doing it again, and as expected, I can't do it again, even when I was in the same place on the same map using the same monsters. Oh well...
Sounds like the bug that made KMOD crash for several ppl when exiting Seven Portals, no idea what causes them and appear only on certain machines. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Now then, do you want this thing to lay on the ground or have it bobbing like an artifact (and used like one too)?
It should lie on the ground IMO. Also, it doesn't get added to your inventory. If you pick one up, the item disappears into nirvana, and its value (1 for silver, 5 for gold) is added to your money count. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I've recreated that possession health bug several times, usually using the Bishop. I could try with other monsters, but it won't be obvious unless I use the real tough ones.
Just fire up the Heresiarch's Seminary on skill 4 and jump down from the start room to the courtyard, you'll find enough Centaur Leaders there to experiment with. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Ichor, once you've got the wadfile the way Remi required it (with the sprites having the names he specified), could you mail it over to me so I can test myself? p.s. it's a good thing I not yet did the credits screen, I'd have to make it anew now anyway, as Ichor's been helping us out with more than just beta testing.
Sun, 09 Dec 2001 23:57:00

Ichor

Ok, there it is. I just had to tinker with the offsets a bit so it would look just right.
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:34:00

RambOrc

Got it, thanks. Strange though, if I load the wad file through autoexec.cfg, it doesn't work, so I had to add it to the batch file with the -file command. Anyway, there is a display prob when using the 2D sprites, the dead critter and the silver bar sprite obviously overlap and there's a visual bug... but unless it's very easy and quick to correct, I wouldn't waste time on it, once I replaced the sprite through a 3D model, the prob went away. Ichor, just put this at the beginning of your modeldef.txt: *SILV (offset:10) 0 md2/silver.MD2 idle *GOLD (offset:10) 0 md2/r1.MD2 idle It looks real fine with the 3D models, except that I never noticed before that they aren't lying on the ground but are tilted at about 45 degree. AFAIK you can't rotate models with the Doomsday engine, so the MD2 itself would have to be edited and I guess that means tilted bars in the final release... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:37:00

Ichor

Or I could create another one with flat bars.
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:42:00

RambOrc

BTW I've just created the new title screen, but I don't show it yet as I'm not interested in critics anyway, LOL j/k (I know it's total crap w/o anyone telling me, it's only slightly better than the KMOD title screen, [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]). Also, I just checked, there are 2 help screens. One will feature a table of all clerical and magical spells, with the default key mapping, the level needed and the SP used. It should fit on a single screen, so I've got a 2nd one for anything else, do you have any suggestions what to put there?
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:43:00

Ichor

I made it tilted like that because it was the best I could do to make a 2D sprite look like a 3D model.
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:50:00

RambOrc

No, I'm not speaking about your 2D sprites, I'm speaking about the 3D MD2 models converted from Hexen II. See the screenshot here. You might need to click into the URL box of the browser and hit enter to access the image (in case you get a 403 Forbidden error). [ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: RambOrc ]
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:52:00

Ichor

I noticed that too. I could somehow fix the model so it's flat. I don't think it should be too hard.
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:57:00

RambOrc

If you've got the right 3D modeler prog with passing input/output for MD2 and you know how to use the prog, it's maybe half a minute to rotate those models to the right angle. It's just that I don't have any such prog, I can't use any, and both ppl who were responsible for modeling on the Korax team (Kendrome and Camper) have stopped doing anything in this direction half a year ago... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] But if you could get them look like something actually lying on the ground, it'd be great. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:05:00

Ichor

Just now finished with that, heheheh...
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:27:00

Camper

Only a little word about the cheats in the file sb_bar.c add this to the bottom: int CCmdCheatWeapons(int argc, char **argv) { int i; if(!canCheat()) return false; // Can't cheat! if (argc!=3 || strnicmp(argv[1], "of", 2) || strnicmp(argv[2], "weapons", 7)) return false; for(i = 0; i < NUMARMOR; i++) { players[consoleplayer].armorpoints = ArmorIncrement[players[consoleplayer].class]; } for(i = 0; i < NUMWEAPONS; i++) { players[consoleplayer].weaponowned = true; } for(i = 0; i < NUMMANA; i++) { players[consoleplayer].mana = MAX_MANA; } P_SetMessage(players+consoleplayer, TXT_CHEATWEAPONS, true); return true; } int CCmdCheatArtifactAll(int argc, char **argv) { int i; int j; if(!canCheat()) return false; // Can't cheat! if (argc!=2 || strnicmp(argv[1], "center", 6)) return false; for(i = arti_none+1; i < arti_firstpuzzitem; i++) { for(j = 0; j < 25; j++) { P_GiveArtifact(players[consoleplayer], i, NULL); } } P_SetMessage(players[consoleplayer], TXT_CHEATARTIFACTS3, true); } hope the weapons cheat functions with the new mage staff system and add in the file h_console.c to the array gameCCmds before the NULL command following lines: "shopping", CCmdCheatArtifactAll, "Get max Artifacts", "armload", CCmdCheatWeapons, "Get all weapons", These are the nra and the indiana cheats.
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:31:00

RambOrc

All I can say is WOW... [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] BTW to further Camper's image even more, he modified the MD2 bars so that I was able to call the skins goldbar.pcx and silverbar.pcx. All seems to be working fine now, so I'll start a new beta testing with the Mage this night and try to play it through from the beginning to the end (oops, not to forget to modify the shops first, currently everything costs 10 silver in every shop).
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 02:37:00

RambOrc

OK, just finished up the shops, though I will say in the manual it's the same shop, filling up with new wares between episodes (the shop map is exactly the same all the time, and at every revisit there are more shelves filled with goodies). Also, this solves the question of what to put upon the 2nd help screen, it'll be a table of all wares, their price and the point where they'll be available. All set, nothing big should be broken any more, so up we go for a big final beta testing for single player Mage... took me some 20 turns to generate a mage with a very high efficiency rate and good speed plus lotta Magic (who cares that he has less HP than a cockroach? LOL).
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:01:00

RambOrc

I thought Ettins have a 25% chance to drop silver? My first Ettin dropped silver, then I killed 20 more and none of them did... Also, you made the same mistake I and Camper did several times before, i.e. with the 2 new sprites you defined some other sprites lost themselves, e.g. on the place of the silver key there was a blue mage, on the place of blue mana the fighter's gauntlets (and it also made the game crash at this point). As deadline is coming fast, maybe we should leave out the physical action of treasure collecting and simply add the money to the player's purse when killing a monster? Kinda lame but better than crashes... Also, I hope there haven't been too many changes between yesterday's build and Friday's build, as the Saturday build is crashing all the time and so I'll test the Friday build for multiplayer with Camper, we start in 5 minutes from now [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:11:00

Ichor

I think I've done that plenty of times too. Usually it's either because the sprites were defined out of order in the info.c, or I forgot to add the SPR_???? sprites in the info.h, or maybe even something as trivial as forgetting to merge the new wad file (and unmerge the old one) into the IWAD.
Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:28:00

Ichor

Why in the world is this happening? The models are there and so are the .pcx skin files, yet the skins look like garbage. By the way, you know those screenshots of all those old bugs I was linking? Well, like a complete idiot, those pictures just happened to be the same name as my screenshots on the website. Fortunately, I had backups of my old screenshots and replaced them. If I didn't find out about that, it would have been ugly.
Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:18:00

Ichor

Ok, I just found a huge bug in the Berserk. If you leave a map while berserked, you stay that way when you reach the new map, and can berserk again while still in that sped up state, thus causing your speed and health to double once more. Exit the map while like this and your health and speed will stay like this. You can keep this up as many times as you like, until something like this happens. Keep it up even further, and you'll get something like this. I was able to use the normal axe (not powered) and defeat Korax in about 10-15 hits each half. Also, with that much health, I was able to survive (although only once) a spike impalement. I might also be able to survive other instant deaths, like falling or telefragging. Now then, getting turned into a pig will bring you down to 30 health like usual, and when you return to normal, you have your original health, but you still have the same insane strength and speed as before. On a side note, if you get turned into a pig while berserked (whether you use the bug or not), you stay berserked, but you're health goes down to 30. If it wears off while you're still a pig (and it usually does), the results are somewhat amusing. You don't die. Instead you only lose half your hit points. Generally, when you come out of being berserked, you tend to lose a lot of health because of exhaustion. That pig must be a lot tougher than we originally thought, heheheh. [ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Ichor ]
Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:28:00

RambOrc

Dunno why the skin prob appears. If you use the 2 MD2 and 2 PCX files I sent you yesterday (or the day before?) and the Modeldef.txt in the same ZIP file, it should work. BTW your screenshots on the CG3 page, I'd slowly think about splitting it up onto several pages, more than 15 thumbnails on a page is seldom a good idea. Remi, I hope you'll be able to correct all bugs with berserking (if you're already at it, be so good and correct the multiplayer one as well [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]) 10'000+ strength and you still needed 10+ hits to finish Korax? Ouch! OK, he's got 100x the HP he had in Hexen, but still... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I'm really curious how the Horrible Pain spell of the Mage will help me against Korax. If I can save enough money, I might be able to stock up my supply to 25 urns before the Dark Crucible, and that means over 10'000 Magic in total, that's a lot of Defensive and Horrible Pain spells... in KMOD it took ages to kill Korax with that puny Bloodscourge. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:42:00

RambOrc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
10'000+ strength and you still needed 10+ hits to finish Korax? Ouch! OK, he's got 100x the HP he had in Hexen
Oh my, this whole sentence sounds like overkill... what have we created here??? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:11:00

Ichor

Ok, after testing the latest version, I see that everything is working just fine. That awful berserk bug is gone, and so is the Wings of Wrath bug. I also liked how you removed the goofy comments from the pickup messages, etc. and went with the basic messages (you don't want to call the players dorks all the time, now do we, heheh). Even the MD2 skins work at long last. The only problem I see is that you can still buy things in the shops if you already have a full amount of that thing you want to buy.
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:39:00

RambOrc

Just got a mail from Remi a couple of hours ago that his computer broke down (again), it's BIG luck it didn't a day or so earlier... I'm all set to release the mod tomorrow, did the credit screen - but can't insert the help screens, though I put them into a wad, pressing F1 still displays garbage, so I took those 2 screens out again, not that terrible as the info is included in the manual as well (which nobody reads, OTOH, I still remember from August, LOL). I'm currently at writing the manual and ran into the little prob that I don't know which spell is now gotten on what level and how much SP they use... I sent a mail to Remi but good Q whether he'll read them in the current situation... if I don't get an answer by tomorrow, I'll just write up some hazy useless info about the spells and release the manual that way, I mean if nobody reads it anyway, why bother... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 05:33:00

RambOrc

In the meantime I got the info from Remi and finished the manual, am currently uploading the ZIP file to the Korax site, so if you feel like that, you could download it from http://www.korax-heritage.com/kmod2/ and see if there is any last-minute horrible bug in the package (like not working at all). [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:54:00

Ichor

Everything seems to be working alright, except for that shop bug I mentioned earlier, and wasn't the gold supposed to be worth 10 silver instead of 5?
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:04:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I also liked how you removed the goofy comments from the pickup messages, etc. and went with the basic messages (you don't want to call the players dorks all the time, now do we, heheh).
Hey, I have to have *some* fun while programming this thingy! [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] I was actually planning to make a little easter egg in the mod where if you played the mod on Christmas eve all messages would be completely goofy and absurd. And almost all sprites would look like the pig. But I didn't get enough time to program that. *sniff sniff* <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The only problem I see is that you can still buy things in the shops if you already have a full amount of that thing you want to buy.
Ah darn! I forgot to do that! Ah well, one little bug is acceptable... right? Anyway, this will be my last post for a while. As RambOrc mentioned my computer has snuffed it again. So, until I got a working comp again, goodbye you all and merry christmas! It's nice to finally see KMOD2 be released. -Remi
Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:41:00

Ichor

That Christmas thing was done already, although it wasn't much. Just play ROTT on Christmas and you'll see a few slight changes. And the music plays nothing but a cheesy version of a Christmas song I can't remember right now.
Thu, 13 Dec 2001 01:15:00

RambOrc

I'm just about to post the announcement on RavenGames and send it out to the other sites. Rob, Remi, thanks for your help, it was cool to work together with you [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]. I'm really content with and proud of KMOD2 in its current form, it's a lot more like what I wanted than KMOD was. I'd say work will start on Korax Alpha in January, there's no fun in working on a project all the time w/o breaks. Remi, if you agree to the solution I proposed you by e-mail yesterday, and agree to it within a week, you should have a working comp by the end of the month, but of course if your choice. Rob, I'm going to test CG3 on Sunday, so get ready for a mail with useless stuff like "wow man, this is GREAT" or similar (at least I hope). [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Thu, 13 Dec 2001 07:39:00

Ichor

The version I sent you a few days ago (that really strained your email server) is an older version, so you can just dump that one and get the new version (with the Charm Spell) that's been loaded to the web site, and I'll probably load a new version after working on the maps some more. [ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Ichor ]
Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:51:00

Tzar Sectus

Wheeeee, I just wired up the internet to work on my horrible yucky laptop. So I guess I'm able to haunt the boards even while my main computer struggles for it's life. Now then... *ponders what this CG3 might be* -Remi
Thu, 13 Dec 2001 21:05:00

Tzar Sectus

Aha... Carnage Galore 3 of course. By the way RambOrc, did you get the mail I sent a little while ago? I'm not sure the mail was sent or not (darned stupid webmail). -Remi
Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:29:00

RambOrc

Hey thanx that I was allowed to download something by dog slow POP from the mailserver for 20 minutes just to dump it w/o ever taking a look at it... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] (j/k) I guess best is that I download on Sunday morning when I'm ready to test it right away... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:51:00

RambOrc

The last mail I got from you was on Wednesday, 12. December at 00:19:05 + 0100
Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:41:00

Tzar Sectus

Ah darn, then it wasn't sent. Ah well, I'll just reply to your mail here then. I guess I'm pretty much going to accept your offer. Thanks for bailing me out of my troubles again. Could you resend me that mail about the specifics? I don't have access to my old inbox. -Remi
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 01:56:00

RambOrc

I've just forwarded you the mail I think you referred to. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:20:00

Tzar Sectus

I tried to send you a mail again. Post here if you didn't get it. If it didn't work this time, I'll kill whoever made the webmail I'm using. -Remi
Tue, 25 Dec 2001 07:15:00

Ichor

Theres one minor thing I just noticed. Frozen enemies do not drop money. I had this same problem with my game, and I'm amazed that I didn't see it in this game sooner, probably because I was using the fighter all the time I was testing the game. It's really not a big problem, and the way to get around this is to simply not freeze anything that might drop some kind of money (especially those Bishops).
Tue, 25 Dec 2001 18:30:00

Ichor

A few other things I just found... First, the Maulotaurs are translucent for some reason. And second, you can possess the reivers, but not the buried reivers.
Tue, 25 Dec 2001 22:43:00

RambOrc

I was wondering myself about the frozen enemies, they never dropped anything, not even when thy shattered... same goes BTW if you use the porkelator. BTW yesterday I arrived into the Necropolis with the Mage and had over 500 silver to spend in the shop, I used it to buy 25 urns and some 20 quartz flasks (so both were on the max), still had 100 silver left... hope I'll collect enough boon from slain critters so that I can stock up to max urns/flasks before entering Korax' Palace, the easiest way with the Mage to slay something big is if you've got enough urns getting you up to full Magic all the time and loosing Horrible Pain at the foe, it'd take about 10 urns to finish a Heresiarch in 2 minutes or less... oops that means I've no idea what to do with Korax, with a quick head count I'd say 25 urns will never give me enough Magic to bust Korax with Horrible Pain, that means I'll have to use them for the Invulnerability spell and bust the mofo with that ineffective Bloodscourge... gotta see, first I've got 3 tomb bosses to go... Translucent Maulotaurs? They were the same way in Korax Mod as well and the reason for them is that either SkyJake or Camper is uncapable of coding something right, 'tseems nobody has an idea why they're translucent (but it's not as bad, I guess [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]). Buried reivers? How would you possess something that isn't around??? BTW I've found some bugs myself, but since I'm still playing a build that's 3-5 days older than the final release, maybe they've been fixed for the public release: 1) when a possessed monster kills another monster, the Mage doesn't get any EXP (not even when I kill my possessed monster [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]) 2) if you've got less mana from a color that would be needed for a weapon originally (i.e. in Hexen), you can't switch to it - even if you could fire several shots thanks to high Efficiency. I had 3 green mana and couldn't switch to the Arc of Death, though it consumed 1 or 2 mana only. Same for Bloodscourge. p.s. when I checked it yesterday, Korax Mod II download count was 285 (241 on korax-heritage.com and 44 on the RavenGames Xmas event). I really don't remember, but Camper claims KMOD got to 100 downloads in about 2 weeks from public release... if this is true, KMOD2 starts with a ~3x wider audience, which is cool. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:35:00

Ichor

I mean the buried Reivers that have already risen up. I had a similar problem with this thing for the resurrection code in my game. Once killed they would be resurrected as something that couldn't be hit, but it could be killed with the butcher code. It was because of what flags they had when they started. I figure something similar may be the culprit behind this little bug. And as for the frozen enemies not dropping things, I just added the same DropItems code in the FreezeDeathChunks section. That way, they can drop things as soon as they shatter.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 01:18:00

Ichor

Have you ever tried to possess a summoned monster? I just tried, and what happens is that the monster turns hostile once you leave it. When you do possess a monster, any other summoned monster remains on your side. Once you leave, that monster you just possessed becomes hostile and the summoned monsters will begin attacking it like any other monster. Plus, if you kill this hostile summoned monster after you're finished, you still get some experience. However, you don't get experience if a summoned monster (not hostile) kills any other monster. I don't consider it a bug. In fact, it might be quite useful. When you're in a secluded spot where your body will be safe, just summon a monster or two until you get one that you like. Then possess it. And as an extra added bonus, those other summoned monsters will protect your body while you're having fun elsewhere.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 02:17:00

Ichor

And for some real laughs, try going to map 30, and get turned into a pig while possessing a monster. What should happen is that you turn back into the monster that you possessed (with full health like usual). Instead, what happens is that you turn back into yourself, thus cancelling the possession spell. But the oddest thing is that your old body is still around. Don't worry about killing it though. It won't kill you. And you can use your possession spell again. Get turned into a pig like this again and there will be a second body around (if you didn't kill the first one). Do this enough times and you'll get something like this, or maybe even this. Also, if you were possessing a flying monster, you'll still be able to float around, but you can't go up or down. And as for that over 1000 magic, that's no bug. I just used the level cheat code so I have plenty of magic to fool around, heheheh. [ December 25, 2001: Message edited by: Ichor ]
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 03:00:00

Tzar Sectus

Well, I guess this certainly means we need to release a patch, there's just so many bugs around. The really annoying thing is that I know why each bug happen, and they'd be so easy to fix. I could easily fix all these bugs in a day and release a new version... but noooo, my stupid computer won't let me. *kicks computer* <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Translucent Maulotaurs? They were the same way in Korax Mod as well and the reason for them is that either SkyJake or Camper is uncapable of coding something right, 'tseems nobody has an idea why they're translucent (but it's not as bad, I guess ).
Has it not been like this all the time? Don't the original Hexen have translucent Maulotaurs? At least I'm certain that JHexen has them translucent. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
p.s. when I checked it yesterday, Korax Mod II download count was 285 (241 on korax-heritage.com and 44 on the RavenGames Xmas event). I really don't remember, but Camper claims KMOD got to 100 downloads in about 2 weeks from public release... if this is true, KMOD2 starts with a ~3x wider audience, which is cool.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeee.... I wish we could get more feedback though. I wonder how many of these *actually* liked the mod. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And as for the frozen enemies not dropping things, I just added the same DropItems code in the FreezeDeathChunks section. That way, they can drop things as soon as they shatter.
*looks confusingly around*... is there a new programmer on the team? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Have you ever tried to possess a summoned monster? I just tried, and what happens is that the monster turns hostile once you leave it. When you do possess a monster, any other summoned monster remains on your side. Once you leave, that monster you just possessed becomes hostile and the summoned monsters will begin attacking it like any other monster. Plus, if you kill this hostile summoned monster after you're finished, you still get some experience. However, you don't get experience if a summoned monster (not hostile) kills any other monster. I don't consider it a bug. In fact, it might be quite useful. When you're in a secluded spot where your body will be safe, just summon a monster or two until you get one that you like. Then possess it. And as an extra added bonus, those other summoned monsters will protect your body while you're having fun elsewhere.
Hmmm... this is something I never tested myself. Should it work like it does now? That the summoned monster becomes evil when he de-possesses? And that summoned monsters follow where the player object is all the time, that is, when you possess a monster your summoned monster follows the possessed monster instead of the player dummy. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And for some real laughs, try going to map 30, and get turned into a pig while possessing a monster. What should happen is that you turn back into the monster that you possessed (with full health like usual). Instead, what happens is that you turn back into yourself, thus cancelling the possession spell. But the oddest thing is that your old body is still around. Don't worry about killing it though. It won't kill you. And you can use your possession spell again. Get turned into a pig like this again and there will be a second body around (if you didn't kill the first one). Do this enough times and you'll get something like this, or maybe even this. Also, if you were possessing a flying monster, you'll still be able to float around, but you can't go up or down. And as for that over 1000 magic, that's no bug. I just used the level cheat code so I have plenty of magic to fool around, heheheh.
Noooooooo... this is something which may be called slightly major since it can mess up just about everything, I should have fixed it when I had the chance. Funny pictures, though I'm curious, how did you manage to get the mages stacked up on eachother?? And I wonder, what happens if you possess a monster and while possessing the player dummy (the mage object which just stands there looking stupid) gets piggyfied? That could theoretically crash the game as you try to depossess again. That is, if the player dummy is possible to piggyfie in the first place which I'm not sure it is. -Remi
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 03:34:00

RambOrc

Nearly forgot, I found another bug yesterday... I was possessing a Slaughtaur then died and reloaded the game and I had that strange view with the Mage as I have with a possessed creature. I died again and reloaded and it worked again. Good Q whether it's specific enough to be hunted down. The whole possessing/summoning thing sounds cool and should be expanded upon in the TC, the only thing I don't find OK is that you don't get EXP for the kills of a summoned monster, I mean you summon some Bishops to help you kill a Heresiarch and because the last shot has been fired by a Bishop you're now 50'000 EXP shorter? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Has it not been like this all the time? Don't the original Hexen have translucent Maulotaurs?
Not a chance, if you summoned a Maulotaur in Hexen, it looked exactly like the Heretic counterpart. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
At least I'm certain that JHexen has them translucent.
That means it's been SkyJake who fucked it up, not Camper... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
is there a new programmer on the team?
LOL, I'd say Ichor coded the stuff into CG3 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
That the summoned monster becomes evil when he de-possesses?
Makes sense, who likes you after you just lived inside his head for a while? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And that summoned monsters follow where the player object is all the time, that is, when you possess a monster your summoned monster follows the possessed monster instead of the player dummy.
Good Q... If they follow the possessed monster, you get more power for an attack, OTOH if they stick around the Mage's body, they can defend it and you're more free to run around in a possessed monster, wreaking havoc. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
how did you manage to get the mages stacked up on eachother??
I'd say he jumped on the head of the first bug-created body, then possessed something from that point, and so on... one thing is 100% clear though, Ichor has too much time on his hands... [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] As for the last question, we're talking here about a depth where even the original Hexen code might be buggy as these are issues you might not become aware of in a thousand hours of playtesting...
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 03:54:00

Ichor

The original Hexen didn't have translucent Maulotaurs, but if I remember right, he was translucent as he was being summoned, then changes to opaque after that smoke clears. And I know about the programming code because the game I'm making is a mod all its own, and I've run into similar bugs. The way I did that second picture is to first jump up on top of an old body, and summon a monster. Then I immediately possess that monster without moving. And then I walk over to the projectile shooters and wait for the porkelator shot. Once I get hit with one, I use the Chaos Device to get back to normal. Then I just keep doing that until I end up with those pictures. And in answer to your last question, yes it does crash the game, but it does it immediately, while you're still in the monster's body. And now, two new bugs I just discovered. First, a Bishop will always be hostile when summoned, whether the spell backfired or not. Second, and probably a lot more serious. If a monster that you possess has some sort of special function attributed to it, like a script or a door trigger or something, if that monster dies while you're still possessing it, the special function will not run. If you leave the monster, then kill it like any other monster, the special function will not run either. I went to map 31 (and spent about 10 minutes pummeling Korax with Bloodscourge shots and Horrible Pain spells for him to vanish and release the monsters) to test it, mainly because I couldn't think of any other place I could get to easily where monsters have special functions. As a result, the doors to release the Centaurs never opened and I could go no farther.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:21:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Nearly forgot, I found another bug yesterday... I was possessing a Slaughtaur then died and reloaded the game and I had that strange view with the Mage as I have with a possessed creature. I died again and reloaded and it worked again. Good Q whether it's specific enough to be hunted down.
Strange view? What strange view does possessed monsters have? The only special views possessed monsters have is the iceblue tint of the Wendigo and the immediate change of FOV. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The whole possessing/summoning thing sounds cool and should be expanded upon in the TC, the only thing I don't find OK is that you don't get EXP for the kills of a summoned monster, I mean you summon some Bishops to help you kill a Heresiarch and because the last shot has been fired by a Bishop you're now 50'000 EXP shorter?
Whooooooooooops... I guess this is something I forgot to add. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Good Q... If they follow the possessed monster, you get more power for an attack, OTOH if they stick around the Mage's body, they can defend it and you're more free to run around in a possessed monster, wreaking havoc.
I'll take that as a "leave it as it is" since making it otherwise is a whole bunch of work. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
And now, two new bugs I just discovered. First, a Bishop will always be hostile when summoned, whether the spell backfired or not.
Er... are you certain? I can specificly remember that I tested this out and the Bishop happily fried the Ettins I tested it with. Or... if I remember correctly, the Bishop has unique AI code, perhaps I've forgotten to make it so that he'll ignore killing his master when following him. In that case, he's both hostile and friendly. Which means he'll not only happily fry your enemies, he'll also happily fry you. [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] -Remi
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:26:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ichor: <STRONG>Second, and probably a lot more serious. If a monster that you possess has some sort of special function attributed to it, like a script or a door trigger or something, if that monster dies while you're still possessing it, the special function will not run. If you leave the monster, then kill it like any other monster, the special function will not run either. I went to map 31 (and spent about 10 minutes pummeling Korax with Bloodscourge shots and Horrible Pain spells for him to vanish and release the monsters) to test it, mainly because I couldn't think of any other place I could get to easily where monsters have special functions. As a result, the doors to release the Centaurs never opened and I could go no farther.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ouch... that one is serious. I've never looked into how this scripts works so I'm not sure how to confront this problem. -Remi
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:33:00

Ichor

As you might have guessed, I had a similar problem with the resurrection code. When a monster was killed, any script it had ran as usual. Then if it was revived, and then killed again, the same script would run again (not always desirable, heheh). I just had the special function removed when it was revived. In your case I'm guessing you could go one of two ways. Either have the special function run whenever you possess a monster (not my first choice), or have it remember that information (target->special or something like that) both when the monster is possessed, in case it dies before you leave, and when you leave it's body before it dies. In either case, have the special function run when it dies, whether you're in its body or not.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:39:00

Ichor

As a side note, I was casting Horrible Pain at Korax while I was around level 80 or so (cheated of course) and with 25 Mystic Urns and 25 Quartz Flasks during those ten minutes, so you have a fairly good idea of the damage they can supposedly do, which puzzles me. Horrible Pain spells that powerful should have killed Korax in a few shots, so either Horrible Pain spells have a limit on how much damag they can do, or Korax has several million hit points. Neither sounds very pleasant.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:59:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As you might have guessed, I had a similar problem with the resurrection code. When a monster was killed, any script it had ran as usual. Then if it was revived, and then killed again, the same script would run again (not always desirable, heheh). I just had the special function removed when it was revived. In your case I'm guessing you could go one of two ways. Either have the special function run whenever you possess a monster (not my first choice), or have it remember that information (target->special or something like that) both when the monster is possessed, in case it dies before you leave, and when you leave it's body before it dies. In either case, have the special function run when it dies, whether you're in its body or not.
Special variable? If my memory is correct, each mobj has special1 and special2 variables, and they vary in use. (Maulotaur uses it as link to it's master and etc...). Sure one of these holds a link to a script? Darn, if I only had the source in front of me I could check what variables mobjs has again. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
As a side note, I was casting Horrible Pain at Korax while I was around level 80 or so (cheated of course) and with 25 Mystic Urns and 25 Quartz Flasks during those ten minutes, so you have a fairly good idea of the damage they can supposedly do, which puzzles me. Horrible Pain spells that powerful should have killed Korax in a few shots, so either Horrible Pain spells have a limit on how much damag they can do, or Korax has several million hit points. Neither sounds very pleasant.
Hmmm.... has anyone managed to kill this Korax yet anyway in Kmod2? -Remi
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:07:00

Ichor

I think it's simply 'special' without the 1 or 2.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:07:00

RambOrc

I once summoned a Bishop and it fought the Slaughtaurs just fine for me. Korax has only half a million HP so I don't see the prob, it's only 5x as much as in KMOD, but you now have a shop where you can stock up your urn supply to 25... ...ugh... did a quick count, those 10-15 extra urns won't really make up for the 5x higher HP... anyway, I'm still playing with the Mage and am in the Necropolis, I'll see whether it works. If not, we'll release a 2.01 patch that includes no other bugfixes except for reducing Korax' HP to 200'000... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] (I guess if there's a real urgent need, Camper could find the place in a short time and change the value then recompile). BTW any patch we make should be 100% savegame compatible or it's just fuckin' up the ppl who're already halfway through.
Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:31:00

Ichor

Try summoning a Bishop with no other monsters around. Instead of just flying around following you around, it will fly around, follow you around, and shoot at you. I think I know why he does it (assuming no one tinkered with that part of the code). Charmed Bishops also kept attacking me, so I knew it had to be fixed somehow. Ever notice how the Bishops always wanted to fire at you, even though they were on the other side of the map and completely out of view? I've always wondered about this myself, and I wanted to fix this problem. Well, I found that in the A_BishopSpawnBlur section of the code (p_enemy.c), you'll find that when he's done with that strafing blur move, he will either continue moving around, or be set into its attack frame. If the latter happens he will attack you, regardless of whether he sees you or not. I think that this is the problem. I fixed it be removing that portion of the code and made it so that it will always be set in its walking frame.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:04:00

Ichor

I just now managed to kill Korax, but I didn't use a single Horrible Pain. This was how I did it (as a mage that is): When I reached the store I got up to 25 Kraters of Might. I had already gotten 25 Quartz Flasks and Mystic Urn back in the third store, so I didn't need to get them here. Then I got a few Dark Servants for laughs, and with what money I had left, I got up to about 20 or so Mystic Ambit Incants. Since I was fully stocked with all the things I needed, I could save those items lying around for later. By the time I reached Korax, I was at level 13, and my efficiency was to the point where each Bloodscourge shot only used up 3 mana each. For the first half, I just sat there pummeling him with Bloodscourge shots, and when I ran low, I used the Mana Creation spell to replenish the mana, and when I ran low on magic, I'd use a Quartz Flask or two to help there. After several minutes, he teleported, and I had to kill the monsters, which were complete wimps compared to what I just fought. For the second half, I used a slightly different strategy. I'd use the Defensive spell and began blasting him until I ran low. I'd use a Krater of Might to restore the mana, and use the Defensive spell as it wore off. I had at the most 154 magic, which gave me 4 uses of that spell before I had to use a Mystic Urn (I'm glad the magic slowly regenerates). I kept this up until he died. I had about 15 Kraters of Might, around 20 Mystic Urns, and a little over 10 Quartz Flasks by the time he died. The Mystic Ambit Incants were for if I was desperate and ran out of the other artifacts. I discovered a couple of things. First, you can't possess ghosts, which I suppose makes sense. Second, and maybe a lot more useful, is that Korax's teleporting might seem completely random, but it isn't. It follows a pattern. When he teleports for the first time, he's on the top of the stairs in the back. Then he moves to a spot to its far right. After that, he moves to the other side of the room, while still on that same platform. Then he moves to the first room on the left cross (the part that doesn't sink when he uses the lava floor script). Then he moves to the right cross. Then it's back up to a spot directly behind his first teleport spot. Then the cycle repeats. The teleport destinations may not be random, but the time he stays on that spot is. He could be there for over a minute, or he could be there for a split second, but he will always follow this pattern. I checked the map using WadAuthor, and I noticed something. He follows the pattern according to the spot number (not the TID), from the lowest to highest. The first spot doesn't count, since he uses it only once, so I'll use the one on its right. That one is number 121. The second one he uses is 122. The third one is 123. The fourth one is 124. And the last one is 144 (I guess they added that later on). Once I found this little secret out, it was easy to track him down and continually pound him until he died.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:38:00

Ichor

I've begun playing as the fighter now. So far I'm in the second hub, and I was wondering about something. After a bit of testing, I found yet another bug, this one for the berserk. If you use an Icon of the Defender and then berserk (you can use the spell before as well), if the spell wears off before the invincibility, you will not lose your extra health. It still considers it extra health, so you can't heal yourself back up to the new health. If you go to another map with any extra health after doing this, you keep it, at least until you get hit enough times and lose it. If you do this again with any extra health left, you'll get even more extra health.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:17:00

Tzar Sectus

Woohoo! It's possible to beat Korax! I was worried there for a bit... By the way, you say you were level 13 when you beat up Korax, was that with or without getting Heart of D'sparil? Just curious. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I've begun playing as the fighter now. So far I'm in the second hub, and I was wondering about something. After a bit of testing, I found yet another bug, this one for the berserk. If you use an Icon of the Defender and then berserk (you can use the spell before as well), if the spell wears off before the invincibility, you will not lose your extra health. It still considers it extra health, so you can't heal yourself back up to the new health. If you go to another map with any extra health after doing this, you keep it, at least until you get hit enough times and lose it. If you do this again with any extra health left, you'll get even more extra health.
Bah... yet another bug. This one happens because when the fighter returns to normal I took from him health with DamageObj(), and that one don't work when the player's invincible. Very easy to fix this bug though. -Remi
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:39:00

Ichor

With getting the Heart of D'Sparil. I think the cleric will have the hardest time trying to kill Korax, because he doesn't have any kind of mana creation spell. I guess that means I'd have to use the relatively weak second and third weapons against him for a while. The fighter shouldn't have too much trouble killing him because of that berserk. Even Quartz Flasks restores that battle rage completely.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 18:09:00

RambOrc

Good to hear Korax can be beaten. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] BTW teleporting, I guess it wouldn't be too complicated to let other kind of monsters teleport around as well, right? Level 13 with the Heart??? What difficulty did you play on? So the Cleric will have it hard this time? Good, he had it too easy in KMOD... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] You see, this is one of the reasons it's good to push out mods before the TC, this way - hopefully - the classes won't be too unbalanced in Korax Alpha.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 23:51:00

Ichor

I always play on skill 4.
Thu, 27 Dec 2001 23:53:00

Ichor

By the way, how much experience do you get if you play on skill 5? I think it should be at least double the normal experience for each monster.
Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:13:00

Ichor

I just finished the game using the fighter, and as I thought, it was easier, but I didn't think it would be that easy. Once I got the Quietus, I just used the unpowered version all the way through the rest of the game. Once I got to Korax, I had all the Quartz Flasks as usual, but instead of the Kraters of Might, I stocked up on Icons of the Defender (about 12 or so are all I could afford), the bracers, and Mystic Ambit Incants. I had about 10 Mystic Urns from collecting items throughout the game. Then when I got to Korax at level 14, I just used the berserk and invincibility, then brought up my armor to 20 in case Korax hits me when the invincibility wears off. I kept this up until he died, and it didn't take nearly as long as with the mage.
Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:15:00

Tzar Sectus

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I just finished the game using the fighter, and as I thought, it was easier, but I didn't think it would be that easy. Once I got the Quietus, I just used the unpowered version all the way through the rest of the game. Once I got to Korax, I had all the Quartz Flasks as usual, but instead of the Kraters of Might, I stocked up on Icons of the Defender (about 12 or so are all I could afford), the bracers, and Mystic Ambit Incants. I had about 10 Mystic Urns from collecting items throughout the game. Then when I got to Korax at level 14, I just used the berserk and invincibility, then brought up my armor to 20 in case Korax hits me when the invincibility wears off. I kept this up until he died, and it didn't take nearly as long as with the mage.
By the way, what do you think about the unpowered sword? Is it too strong? -Remi
Fri, 28 Dec 2001 11:36:00

Ichor

Not at all, since it is the fourth weapon, and it's a melee weapon. At 37 strength, it still takes two hits to kill a Slaughter, Bishop, or Reiver.
Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:48:00

Ichor

I always play on skill 4. That's probably why I end up on level 13-14 by the end of the game. Using the multiple Heresiarch trick helps too. And the Bishops he spawns can give a few fast fivers, allowing you to get more things in the stores.
Fri, 28 Dec 2001 23:23:00

RambOrc

I still find it strange you get only to level 13-14 with the heart, I get to level 15 with the heart on skill 3 and on skill 4 there are way more monsters, thus there should be way more EXP. Strange... Remi could check the code, maybe you get less EXP when killing monsters on a higher skill, but I can't recall any such thing.
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:30:00

Ichor

Maybe it's possible that you require more experience per level on a high skill. The fighter got to level 14 only because I used the multiple Heresiarch trick. For each level, the experience you need seems to double. Once I reached level 14, I needed nearly a million experience to reach level 15, and even Korax didn't give me enough to get there.
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 04:31:00

RambOrc

Just checked my savegame in the Necropolis and you're right, I must've mixed up the numbers. I'm currently level 10 and need some 300'000+ EXP for level 11. I think I might get it together before killing Korax (just the 3 tomb bosses amount for ~60'000). Adding 3 levels for the Heart, you get 14 which is OK; on skill 3, I'd be level 15 now, that's what I remembered. OK OK [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 07:26:00

RambOrc

You get the same amount of EXP for a monster, independent of skill. It's just that on skill 1-2 you have way less monsters, thus way less EXP (OTOH you get 5 points per new level), and on skill 4-5 you have much more monsters, thus more EXP (OTOH you get only 3 points per new level). On skill 5 you get the same amount of points for a monster, but it's more difficult to slay them. Truth to be told, I haven't played any of the mods on anything but skill 3 yet, it's the default skill and most people will play this, so I found this one to be most ?mportant to work flawlessly. Anyway, it seems the classes are more evenly balanced this time than in KMOD, that's good. Except of course in deathmatch, both mods are everything but balanced in there... that's why I want Korax Arena, among other things. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:43:00

Ichor

I just finished playing the game as a cleric, and it was a lot harder than the other two classes, especially against the Slaughtaurs. The only weapon that seemed to be effective against them is the Wraithverge. As for Korax, I got 25 Quartz Flasks as usual, along with 25 Kraters of Might, (and the Mystic Ambit Incants as a last resort of course). For the first half, I used the invincibility and dropped just about all of my Flechettes. Those poison clouds took a lot out of him. Then when they vanished, I'd just shoot at him with my pea shooter Serpent Staff for about 20 minutes. Since it uses no mana, I could save it all for the second half. For the second half, I used some of those Flechettes I picked up in the Centaur rooms. Then simply bombarded him with Wraithverge shots, and a Wrath of the Gods spell or two. I took a break to allow him to open the doors to the Chaos Serpents and Bishops, since there's a few things in there I could use. After that, it's back to the pounding. After almost 10 minutes and around 20 Kraters of Might, he finally died, and I got enough experience to reach level 16.
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:35:00

Tzar Sectus

30 minutes??? You used 30 minutes to kill Korax? Darn, we really shouldn't have upped his health so much. Right now he seems to be a challenge when it comes to patience, not playing well. His AI should be have been tweaked to be more intelligent, his health should have stayed the same... -Remi
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:02:00

Ichor

Perhaps he could have the ability to heal himself a bit when he gets below half, or maybe he could summon random monsters (non ACS script based). There really is only so much you can do with him on the original map because you only have the scripts they use. For add-on maps, you can make it so that Korax can do just about anything.
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:53:00

Tzar Sectus

Well, anyway, I guess this is out of our hands now. Fixing up KMod2 even more than just fixing bugs would be just overkill since we'll be working on Korax Alpha... RambOrc, we're not going to resurrect Korax for Alpha, right? Pleeeeeeeease? Would be cool to make a new boss for Alpha. Even if we don't get an artist to make the graphics, we could just do it the easy way and make a Doom 2-alike boss which is a texture on a wall and does something evil all the time. -Remi
Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:32:00

RambOrc

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
His AI should be have been tweaked to be more intelligent, his health should have stayed the same...
That's what I plan for the TCs, increasing AI as far as it's possible (i.e. as far as the knowledge of our coders go [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
RambOrc, we're not going to resurrect Korax for Alpha, right? Pleeeeeeeease?
I'm not sure which way you mean it, if you mean we should, my answer is "no, not a chance" and if you mean we shouldn't than my answer is "yes, of course". Recycling Korax like a plastic cup would be the lamest thing we could do, since according to the Hexen story he was the arch evil and he died. Reusing the character as a brother or sister or whatever of him would be the next lamest thing to do, it was pretty stupid (story-like) to have another Spider Mastermind in the add-on DOOM episode (Thy Flesh Consumed), but DOOM was never much of a story-driven game. Hexen is much more one, and an RPG is very story-driven so such a blunder would be unforgivable IMO. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Would be cool to make a new boss for Alpha
On the visual side, the best we could afford is to recolor existing monsters or import them from Heretic (or Heretic II as Ichor did for CG3). What I'd really love is import the Boar Lord from Shadowcaster, but currently there is no way to get out the sprites from the Shadowcaster files... I talked to Alfred (the GFE coder) about this but it seems he didn't want to waste the time on it or so. Camper means we should ask Raven for the source code (that would contain the way how to read the file formats), but I just never got around to do it. But I want a new super-intelligent many-sided end boss just like you. I was thinking of a uber-heresiarch that has several new weapons and a lot of new spells and maybe even picking up artifacts, health and ammo from the map if you don't get it first. He could have a couple of cool artifacts with him (like a ring that can be used once to turn him invisible for a minute or so), and either he uses them in the battle or if you're fast enough in slaying him, you'll still find them in the pockets of his robe. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] The other bosses I plan for Korax Alpha are a Maulotaur slave that escaped its master (a mage), it wouldn't have any special abilities, it'd be pretty much like fighting one of them in Heretic, just a trifle stronger. The other boss would be a Death Wyvern which you have to seek out and fight in its lair, using the Wings of Wrath. As long as there aren't many maps for this TC, there's no need for more bosses than these 3. Currently I've got the town map (no fighting there), a nearly finished mines map, the 3-4 Heretic maps from Levelkiller (which will be converted into Hexen format soon, it seems I found someone who'll actually do it), I've got a very unfinished swamp town map and I'll have to make at least 2 new ones from scratch (the Wyvern lair and the Temple, the last map). I'm also strongly thinking about recycling some of the maps from Hell's Surface (though that would be somewhat lame, truth to be told), and some of the original Hexen (or Deathkings) maps. I already had the idea more nearly 2 years ago to rework the Heresiarch's Seminary map, making it abandoned and crumbling ruins, devastated in the fight years ago when the 3 heroes killed its master. For a couple of other maps, ideas could be found how to seam them together with the TC's story. Why all this lame doing? Putting out a full-blown RPG with 3 maps is like putting out a demo... either we do this and call it actually a demo (but that would be stupid as it won't have much in common with The Serpent Power afterwards), or we call it a "short" RPG and ppl will give it a low rating and hate us because gameplay is less than an hour. Or is there a 3rd way to solve this prob I'm not aware of? p.s. Korax Alpha, nobody gave me any comments on the name suggestions, whereas I'd like to have the official name now ASAP so as to
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:06:00

Ichor

What I plan on doing for mine is to have you fight Korax several times during the game, each time harder than the last, but have him run off when his health reaches half. At that time, you would be able to continue on. Only near the end would you be able to fight him to the end (with a few new tricks of his, heheheh). After that, well...I won't say exactly what happens.
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:25:00

RambOrc

Cool idea, reminds me of Stonekeep where you see the Shadowking right at the beginning, then once at about 3/4 of the game, and then at the very end. Anyway, you have it easier, as you're combining 3 (4?) Serpent Rider games and making up a whole new story with no limits (no, I absolutely don't say it's bad, I'm just trying to define the difference between CG3 and KH). In Korax' Heritage, we'll use a strictly Hexen-only world and story that has to fit 100% that of the original Hexen (we even created the continent in a way that all locations of Hexen can be placed on it).
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:35:00

Ichor

A possibility on the end guy is to maybe have Eidolon come looking for the other two Serpent Riders. Finding them dead, he takes his revenge out on those responsible, you being one of them.
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 02:35:00

RambOrc

Which project do you refer to?
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 02:57:00

Ichor

Yours of course. I already have the story and plot thought up for mine.
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:51:00

RambOrc

With "strictly Hexen-only world" I meant Cronos, i.e. Hexen I. Hexen II stuff is out of Q. I disliked the whole world and story setting of that game anyway (and the game itself pretty much as well). BTW be sure to upload the latest build of CG3 tomorrow, as I'll download it on the 31st to test once again. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Sun, 30 Dec 2001 03:56:00

Ichor

Map 4 is just about done. I'm just tinkering with the item placement, namely making sure I have enough mana to get through the map. Once I'm done with map 3, I'll make it so that the swamp key you'll see on map 4 won't be there, at least not all the time (hint hint), but for now, it's there for testing purposes. Only two thirds of the puzzle script is done, with the last being in map 3.
Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:17:00

Ichor

So how was it? Anything wrong, except the fact that not all the maps were done yet?
Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:49:00

RambOrc

I've sent you a reply by e-mail, it's just too bothersome to use UBB especially that it's a discussion between the 2 of us. I'd also be glad if anyone with a new topic would actually start a new topic and not continue this mega-long one. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:51:00

Ichor

The email never arrived.
Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:39:00

RambOrc

But you answered it
Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:51:00

Ichor

I didn't realize at the time that you had just sent the email. I sent that message before it came. Silly me...

Back to the Korax Forum Archives