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KMOD 2.7

Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:57:58

RambOrc

Erm Moose, tomorrow is the 24th, how does it look with KMOD 2.7? It'd be cool to release it for Xmas.
Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:11:55

Moose

Yer it seems to be running fine. If there's anything else you want added tell me within the next hour. I'll upload before I go to bed tonight.
Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:10:46

mago

Sorry if it's beel said before, but what eaxctly are the changes in KMOD 2.7?
Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:03:42

Moose

Well yes it has been said before but I'll say it again seem as you asked so nicely <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> -Affrit DS -Wendigo DS -Stalker DS -Wraith DS -Sold item message
Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:07:40

mago

Thanks, can't wait to download the version. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:52:57

Moose

Its uploaded to the KMod Folder on KDev, it should work all you need to do is extract the zip over an old copy of KMod (2.6 would probabally be best) As for me its time to dose up on cough medicin and get an earlyish night, toodles. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:43:44

RambOrc

I just wanted to create the package and upload, but ran into two problems: - the ZIP you uploaded can't be extracted on my comp - I'm not sure, do you have to press the space bar on the merchant's table before choosing an item from your inventory and pressing Enter, or you just walk up to the table and hit Enter on a selected inventory item? This is what I wrote into the 2.7 manual but it might not be true:
To sell an item, walk up to the shopkeeper's table and press the key you assigned to "use" (the space bar by default). You are now in selling mode. Any item you select in your inventory and try to "use" will be sold. A message will be displayed indicating this.
Fri, 26 Dec 2003 21:51:01

Firebrand

Good to hear from another release, I can't wait to download it, heh! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:59:58

mago

I just wanted to create the package and upload, but ran into two problems: - the ZIP you uploaded can't be extracted on my comp
Seems to me this is the same problem I was getting while uploading files to Koraxdev... Moose, try to type the bin command as soon as you log in on the Koraxdev' FTP prompt. It solved my problem.
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 19:32:21

RambOrc

This might have something to do with the FTP server I use lately, maybe it doesn't communicate the same way the old one did and low-end FTP clients don't understand it right (I use CuteFTP Pro, costing something like 60 bucks and that doesn't have this prob).
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:09:17

Moose

I totally missed your post ramborc. I think its time for me to install filezilla I've see it on a CD somewhere in my room. As for selling, by pressing 'use' at the table you sell your currently selected item and a message is displayed.
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:30:03

RambOrc

OK here is the new version:
To sell an item, walk up to the shopkeeper's table, select the item in your inventory you would want to sell and press the "use" key. The selected item will be sold. A message will be displayed indicating this.
Is it 100% OK now?
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:32:04

Moose

Perfect. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I wonder how many people will read it?
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:52:44

Moose

Right try downloading it again.
Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:27:54

RambOrc

This time it seems to have worked... I just uploaded the new 2.7 package, you better download it and check whether it's all working fine. Currently writing the newspost, should be up in a minute or two.
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 08:31:56

RambOrc

I have the feeling the majority of DS is already made, anyone a complete list of those that are still missing?
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:00:06

Moose

According to my list we still need the Fighter, Dark Bishop and Korax DS.
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:46:56

RambOrc

Whoa, that means there could be a 2.8 with a complete DS set in maybe only a couple of weeks, which would enable us after all to stop KMOD 2.x development forever before 3.0 is released. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:00:46

Moose

True and even add fire damage animations (FDA) if it is an easy task for an artist to make the images Nightwolf made us ready for Hexen. And if you want FDA for KMod 2.x that is.
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 15:39:36

RambOrc

But Nightwolf already made those images, didn't he?
Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:21:40

Moose

Maybe. I'll have a look later.
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 01:25:21

Firebrand

Yeah, I think Nightwolf made those images (I remember I did download them and have a copy of them myself), I think that's a good idea, that way we can add even more realism to the game.
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 12:11:50

RambOrc

"Realism" is the wrong word when used in conjunction with Korax' Heritage... there are enough games out there that want realism, the Korax project is about gameplay. Realism means you have to walk minutes or even hours in the same-looking environments looking for a single foe, and that you can never fight more than 1-2 opponents at once else you are dead. Should I go on? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:06:10

mago

LOL! I'm pretty sure Firebrand didn't mean realism in such a general way, but rather realism in terms of interactivity with the game's world, the way the sprites would also respond to fire, not dying in the same way he would by an axe blow. Anyway, as for the actual graphics, I've taken a look at them yesterday and they sure look very, very nice and hard to make, so i guess we really should use it. The frames are already made, which is great. They needed "just" to be coded in.
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:36:35

dj_jl

I saw you already released KMOD 2.7, but I din't saw news on doomworld.com, did you send them a message?
Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:59:41

RambOrc

Since you two (Ichor and Janis) seem to be regulars there, would you take care of this (now and in the future)? I'm still playing Heretic and modding Hexen, but I stopped caring about DOOM years ago (especially that D3 will incorporate exactly that from the old DOOM I disliked and will lack all of the stuff I liked), so I as good as never visit DOOM-related sites.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:52:48

dj_jl

OK, no problem.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:50:38

Moose

Looking at the images they all need the backround colour changing and making .bmp, I could do all this and stick them in a wad but I get bored easily so if anyone else wishes do do this job I'd be most gratefull. As for "just" coding it, it shouldn't be do hard I'll just look at how it was done for the player characters. And I have motivation, I've been reading 'Masters of Doom' and its given me one of those attitudes that make me want to finish KMod (my teachers may not like this to much though, heh heh heh <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> ) Oh and regarding realism, the day this gets realistic is the day I go back on my word and quit. In other words I hate realism and IMO to many games are getting to realistic. But in the sence FireBrand was talking about it I'm all for it.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:30:53

RambOrc

LOL as long as I'm project leader no Korax project will be ever realistic. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> BTW Moose AFAIR you'll have your exams soon, meaning you won't be able to work on the game for months, can you supply me with exact data?
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:38:58

Moose

Well good because I don't want to have to quit. Well I have my moc exams in february (I think) but they don't really count for anything so I shouldn't be put back to much then may/june I have the real thing, my GCSEs. Which I will probably have to spend more of my spare time revising for. Then after there over and done with I'm free untill I stand 6th form in september.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:13:21

mago

[quote="Moose":1mwdp26l]Looking at the images they all need the backround colour changing and making .bmp, I could do all this and stick them in a wad but I get bored easily so if anyone else wishes do do this job I'd be most gratefull. I'll do it, no problem.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:26:26

Moose

Thanks mago, sprites that are repeated you don't shouldn't need to do again. I'll start on the code tomorrow. Depending on how long it takes you and FireBrand to do the remaining DS KMod 2.8 could be out sooner rather than later.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:46:02

RambOrc

I suggest you both put highest priority on finishing up these last Damage Skins and stop making NPCs and stuff for the moment. Releasing a KMOD 2.8 (which should be the very last 2.x release ever) before 3.0 would make everyone's life easier.
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:10:37

Moose

expecialy mine <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Tue, 30 Dec 2003 22:15:43

RambOrc

I guess for you it'd be best if we'd finish up 2.x completely, then release 3.0, patch it up if needed, then move on to Vavoom, starting with Korax Arena (actual programming on SE isn't needed in the near future, I guess, or at least not much).
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:43:24

mago

Just came for a quick visit, I have to meet my girlfriend in about 20 minutes... Anyway, i agree with you guys, I'll finish the remaining frames for the Warrior's DS, and then move on to make the others. I'll also make the wads for the fire animations later today, if I can. Two doubts: -How should I organize the sprites in the WAD(s), Moose? All in sequence, or one wad per monster? Should I replace existing frames? -Wasn't it agreed that in Korax Arena we would aim for a complete swapping from sprites graphics to 3d models (including player's HUD weapons)? If so, we would better try to "hire" a 3d modeller too, right?
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:47:22

RambOrc

Uhm Mago I think you were part of the discusssion in which we decided not to go with 3D monsters and stuff. Especially in Vavoom there is even less need for 3D models, as simpler objects (like a table or a fence) can be built directly in the engine instead of using a 3D model. Not to mention 3D models lower performance immensely, I'm rather for 30 sprite monsters in a fight than 5 model ones.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:53:11

Moose

If you stick everything in the one .wad, make it a new a new .wad to save on size. If you give them new names aswell it'll save me time later, e.g. instead of 'sspt' have 'sspf'. Thanks again. I found out what wad stands for "where's all the data". Woo, I love this book.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:56:00

RambOrc

What book? The one about DOOM that wasn't yet out when I last looked at Amazon and I didn't preorder it? I forgot the title.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:02:00

Moose

Masters of Doom. I have a .pdf 'demo' of chapter 8 if you want a read.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:09:47

RambOrc

Paperback still not available and I don't like hardcovers. You are welcome to send the PDF provided it's legal.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:15:42

Moose

Weh? thats odd I have the paperback, its infront of my monitor in all its paperbacky goodness. Well it should be legal, I got it on a demo disk a few months ago, "yours to keep & print"
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:29:41

Moose

Chapter 8 - Summon the Demons is now in my folder.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:46:00

RambOrc

Got it, thanks.
Wed, 31 Dec 2003 15:49:45

Moose

Thats ok, wonder why you can't get it paperback yet though. I would assume that mum and dad got it off amazon.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:21:12

Moose

I think I've got the FDA working, woo. This shouldn't take me to long at all.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:26:56

RambOrc

Cool. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Come on Mago & Firebrand, hurry up with those last 3 DS! (LOL j/k)
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:22:42

Moose

It works although I'll have to wait till magos done to see them all. My ettin I just threw together in a wad isn't all that good, I couldn't remember the backround colour. Anyway back to work.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:30:21

Moose

Ramborc should I post a news doo-dar about the problem with KMod2.7 or do you want to do a new distribution package. If your confuzed look at your inbox.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:54:55

RambOrc

Everything done (except kicking your butt). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:04:22

Moose

I'll kick it for you.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:52:15

mago

Sorry for the delay, people, but I'm having sever problems in starting Widnows, I'm getting dark screens and crashes all the time, and I'm here now working with only 16 colors in the monitor. It all seems to be caused by some hardware conflict with my video card, and tthe fixing might take a while... I hope solve it by myself, but I already tried everthing I could...
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:03:52

Moose

Don't worry theres no real rush, and in the mean time I can do more to KMod3 I want to get the bugs we've found so far out, rework the selling system a little and add NPC path nodes.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:23:24

RambOrc

You mean I could set flags in a map and the NPC would walk from one to the other?
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:34:27

Moose

Yer thats the idea, the randomness of the random movement isn't good enough for me, plus mago gave me a link to some source code which has it already implemented so I can learn from that.
Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:06:17

RambOrc

Nice. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> That's what I always wanted, so that the city guard can make its rounds around the town, the milkman can drop a milk at every doorstep where they have subscribed, the ladies can go shopping to the market every morning, and so on. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:24:11

mago

I've solved the damn problem, now I'm back to business! I'll try to make the fire damge wad tomorrow morning, and then begin to work on those last HS. - RambOrc: now that's my idea of a dream town too... I actually can't wait to work on those animations... In fact, I already thought about one simple animated NPC today that I think will be the first, because it is so simple (it will be a farmer working on the land with a shovel or something like that, just 3-4 frames of him digging on the ground - but with all point of views covered (S-SE-E..). Will be nice to see one of those in farms like those found in Antara).
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:05:46

The 4th Class

AFAIK, it may not be that simple. The frames for the walking sprites are animated proportionally, so there will always be exactly x ticks between frames. With the shovelling, you would probably need more than 4 frames per direction (I'd say 2 for the shovel actually going down from the air, into the ground, then maybe 3 or 4 for the shovel going up back for the cycle to continue).
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:32:23

mago

LOL! You are probably right. I just think it's funny I guy like you know so much about sprite editting too. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Anyway, the sprites in Hexen have all, in my opinion, poor animations, in terms of the number of frames per movement. It's specially noticed when you watch the sprite closely, like the City mage in RambOrc's map. I once had the brilliant idea of trying to make fluid moving sprites, by making twice as frames as the Hexen's original per movement, but that was BEFORE I really began to work on the Hurt skins of the first monsters (Ettin, Chaos Serpents,...). With sometimes more than 2 hundred frames, the fully animated sprites are something really hard to control, and the amount of time and energy that need to be in a sprite that's animated twice as richly, would be too great for an amateur like me... I guess fluid animation can and should (at least I'll try) be implemented in sprites that have limited movement capacity, like the farmer I described, but it could be too demanding in fully animated ones like the city guard, or the NPCs that will follow the player in missions...
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 11:47:08

RambOrc

I'd rather settle for a lot of "poorly" animated sprites than a few "perfect" ones. BTW not to put a damper on your spirit, but after finishing the DS for KMOD 2.8 the most important is to finish up the missing artwork for KMOD 3.0 (journal, spellbook). AFAIR there've been a couple of cool concept works but not a finished graphics, or am I mistaken? There is also something else in the back of my mind but I can't remember what it is.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 13:22:15

Moose

KMod3 is going to have a Journal and Spell book? Holy shit I got work to do. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 13:27:43

mago

If I remember correctly, KMOD 3 will be everything the old SE would be: a collection of new maps, inside a developed story line, with all the rpg features intended for SE (journal,...). Being free of becoming a limited project, the new SE project would have a much larger horizon, where we could build much more, thus making it closer to SP in terms of new gameplay capacity.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 13:30:07

Moose

Actually I don't think KMod3 is going to have new maps.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:35:48

RambOrc

OK here a quick list of KMOD 3 features (vs 2.x): - original SE engine (based on the KMOD 2 engine, but with Janis' enhancements like higher resolution) - NPCs and NPC interaction (conversations, maybe even quests) - journal and spellbook - context-based help screens (e.g. in shops you get the item index, it depends on your character class what you see in-game) - new attribute system (5 instead of 3) - new weapons/spells (maybe not much) - enhanced coop mode (heal/mana creation/etc. spells now with area of effect) - better support for custom maps (like the ability to set leveling-up rate before starting a game, from 50% to 500% or so) - a couple of freeely reusable hubs (like chuxen) enhanced for KMOD 3 (setting custom level up rate, adding/removing some goodies, adding a shop to the main map) - some kind of "SDK", containing documentation on how to add KMOD features (like a shop) to your custom map, a WadAuthor config file, and more
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:51:29

Camper

hey yo, wouldn't this mean that KMOD 3.0 is going to be SE?
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:18:07

RambOrc

No, because it's still missing following vs the originally planned SE: - own storyline - all-new maps - a lot of new weapons and spells - new monsters - etc.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:21:12

The 4th Class

How would we incorporate the quests, let alone conversations, into Hexen?
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 15:28:29

RambOrc

If you talk about KMOD 3, that's all only present in the shop map, maybe 2-3 NPCs at most. It's only as a little extra touch and to not to let already coded features go to waste. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for quests, I had the idea that the NPCs can give you a quest and next time you go to the shop you could give them the item, like e.g. the Cleric says in the shop after Heresiarch's Seminary that they need some cogwheels for the new tower clock in their cathedral, and you have the option to think ahead, buy some Wings of Wrath from the shop before exiting, and thus be able to save the cogwheels in Castle of Grief and carry them out of the hub and give them to the Cleric who would give you some EXP or goodies in turn. But if it's more than just a little coding work, then this idea should be dropped, I mean coding in new stuff into a phased-out product line isn't very smart. On second thought, since KMOD 3 should be mapper-friendly, maybe quests should be coded in all the same, less for us and more for mappers.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:40:17

Moose

Heh heh, I just scared the living crap out of myself. My PCs doing some odd things, I've now made my second, I think, back up. Anyway back on topic, well more on topic than that, most of the things you've mentioned above shouldn't be too hard, excluding the quests. I'll get on with the Journal now because I miss it.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:58:49

RambOrc

What you should do is to ZIP up all project-related files and upload them to koraxdev, then give me a mail so that I can download the whole koraxdev content and burn it to a CD.
Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:31:29

Moose

Don't worry to much I've stuck it all on my MP3 player for now, when I get a chance I'll use dads PC to burn it to a CD.
Sat, 03 Jan 2004 01:17:59

Firebrand

)
I suggest you both put highest priority on finishing up these last Damage Skins and stop making NPCs and stuff for the moment. Releasing a KMOD 2.8 (which should be the very last 2.x release ever) before 3.0 would make everyone's life easier.
OK, I will keep up with DS, Mago, I don't remember very well, which ones are you going to do?? I think that I can make up one for Korax itself (I will try to make it in the next couple of days <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> ), BTW I think that 3d models aren't a good idea for the mod, they simply don't go too much with the engine and I just don't like them too much.
Sat, 03 Jan 2004 11:06:32

RambOrc

It seems we all agree - now with Vavoom's advanced capabilities, the only things that need to be 3D models are detailed scenery objects like an ornately carved chair or a chandelier.
Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:27:28

mago

Firebrand- let's do like this, if you agree: you make the first HS of Korax (he will have 3 stages of damage), while I work on the Warrior one that i started a long time ago. After that, we can discuss how the other 2 Korax's HS should be done. I think the Warrior and Korax are the only ones without a HS.
Sat, 03 Jan 2004 14:46:04

Moose

And the dark bishop. We now have a spell book, its somewhat simple and doesn't do anything but it's there. So how is the spell book going to work in KMod?
Sat, 03 Jan 2004 16:07:25

RambOrc

As simple as possible - up/down keys navigate between spell categories, left/right keys between spells in a category, PgUp/PgDn lets you change the SP spent on a spell (if applies), Enter casts the spell.

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