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KA latest release

Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:20:04

RambOrc

I wanted to do it for days and finally have some time to test the latest release, I'll post here anything I find. The first came surprisingly fast, I just started up a map and it crashed after the first step or two:
Dev: Spawning server MAP03
Dev: Server spawned
Dev: CL_EstablishConnection: connected to local
Dev: Client LOCAL connected
Log: <-- server to client keepalive
Log: ---------------------------------------
Log: THE RIVER OF FIRE
Log: 
Dev: Client level loaded
Log: Can't find models/items/vial.md2
(...)
Log: Can't find models/monsters/minotaur/base.md2
Dev: 720 subdivides
Dev: 194 seg subdivides
Dev: 805k light mem
Log: <-- server to client keepalive
Log: MORNING STAR
- VViewEntity::SetState
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame


Exiting due to external exception
Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:37:50

RambOrc

It's been working great with 3 bots in Agio, maybe 10 minutes or so, until I decided to spawn some more bots:
Log: DISC OF REPULSION Log: >addbot botw4 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botw5 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botd6 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botm7 Dev: Client NULL connected - Z_Free - VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump - VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon - RenderSprite - R_RenderMobjs - R_RenderPlayerView - SCR_Update - Host_Frame ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
Bugs found: - if you die while in the darkness of a fighter, you respawn with darkened vision - sniperbow shoots everywhere but not where the crosshair is - sniperbow is "shaking" while in zoom mode Wishlist: - weapon change with mousewheel - control settings should have only functions that actually exist (e.g. inventory keys) - game should save previous settings in the multiplayer game setup (like skill, number of slots open, map etc) - better map overview (maybe listing them all in that big open place on the screen or making a long vertical list that can be scrolled at both ends) - baby setting should disallow "run" for bots, they should be able to only "walk" (exactly amateur players have difficulty moving and turning fast, they'll never hit anything at this speed) I've heard a couple of bots being stuck now and then, whether it's much less than before I'll be able to say later on. At any rate once I got close to a stuck bot (even if there was a wall between us), he got unstuck.
Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:41:57

RambOrc

Dev: Spawning server MAP02 Dev: Server spawned Dev: CL_EstablishConnection: connected to local Dev: Client LOCAL connected Log: <-- server to client keepalive Log: --------------------------------------- Log: THE DOCKS Log: Dev: Client level loaded Log: Can't find models/items/vial.md2 (..) Log: Can't find models/monsters/minotaur/base.md2 Dev: 3376 subdivides Dev: 495 seg subdivides Dev: 59k light mem Log: >addbot botc2 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botm3 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botf1 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botw4 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: >addbot botd6 Dev: Client NULL connected Log: POISON BREATH Log: DISC OF REPULSION Log: FIRESTORM Log: COMBINED MANA Log: FIRESTORM Log: RED MANA Log: BIG BLUE MANA Log: FLECHETTE Log: RED MANA Log: GREEN MANA Log: FIRESTORM Log: ICE WAND Log: BLUE MANA Log: FLECHETTE - Z_Free - VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump - VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon - RenderSprite - R_RenderMobjs - R_RenderPlayerView - SCR_Update - Host_Frame ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:44:04

RambOrc

This one happened just as I tried to switch from weapon #3 to #2:
Dev: Spawning server MAP03
Dev: Server spawned
Dev: CL_EstablishConnection: connected to local
Dev: Client LOCAL connected
Log: <-- server to client keepalive
Log: ---------------------------------------
Log: THE RIVER OF FIRE
Log: 
Dev: Client level loaded
Log: Can't find models/items/vial.md2
(...)
Log: Can't find models/monsters/minotaur/base.md2
Dev: 720 subdivides
Dev: 194 seg subdivides
Dev: 805k light mem
Log: <-- server to client keepalive
Log: GREEN MANA
Log: FIRESTORM
Log: RED MANA
Log: POISON BREATH
Log: CRYSTAL VIAL
Log: FLECHETTE
Log: PLATINUM HELMET
Log: DISC OF REPULSION
Log: CRYSTAL VIAL
- (Weapon.A_Lower)
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (S_CFLAMEDOWN_func)
- VViewEntity::SetState
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame


Exiting due to external exception
Oh yes, can something be done about those "can't find models" thing? Like not looking for all those models?
Sun, 07 Aug 2005 23:28:30

Firebrand

I'll take all the models away from every object, since we'll be working just with spries <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I get the same errors about the Z_Free stuff, but I don't know what they are related too <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> , Janis could you explain what's wrong with it? And Ramborc, you forgot to tell, which class you were with the last bot (changing weapons) <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> , and that bug with the morning star it's strange, I'll look into it. About the bots, I'm still working on finding a good way to set the skills to them, but it can take several time before they fully work, there are a lot of things that need tweaking in every skill, so please be patient with it, I already put the walking thing into the list <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. This next week, I won't be able to work on the code really much, my final exams week it's coming and I need to prepare for it, you already know what comes after it, heh! VACATIONS!! The best time for me to work on KA and KH code or sprites <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, if you are patient enough we can make the release with the actual beta, or maybe improve the wishlist you posted here and most of the bugs and problems you already posted here to make it the third beta, you decide, I would go to wait a bit, it's not really much that needs to be done, and it's worth for a more perfect version of KA to show up.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 09:28:13

RambOrc

There is only one object I'd like to see as MD2, it's the barrel (model from Hexen II, just as it was used in KMOD since 1.0). Unless it complicates things to include one single MD2 model of course, in which case let's drop it (like when stripping some 3D model stuff from the code makes it faster or something). I think it was the Cleric, but not sure any more, sorry, I thought it'd be visible in the logfile. UPDATE: yes of course it's visible in the logfile, <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> right back at you <!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: --> Once the current crashes are fixed, the product is pretty much OK for an RC1, when playing in Agio with three bots it was just about perfect (except for them being too fast LOL), meaning the thing basically is ready for a public release, even if we have to cut out a thing or two (like a map or a weapon/class). The main difference between RC1 and the final should be (besides fixing any bugs if found) would be to bring maps on par, some of them have way too few items and most or maybe all of them lack the powerups. Also, some Korax posters/banners should be in every map to give it a more consistent look.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:10:46

Firebrand

Yep, I think it's a good idea, also if there could be something that REALLY blows up a game or something we could even do a RC2 (which I don't think would be the case), I don't think there could be any problem in using the barrel as a model, models can impact in the performance of the game, but only if there are a lot of them, which won't be the case in KA, we just have to make sure we include the model in the release to avoid problems with network sync or something (which I don't think would cause any harm, but we better be sure, heh!). Yep, the bug can be seen in the logfile, sorry, my mistake there <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> . As for the menu fixing, I need to understand the way the menus work in Vavoom, because it's a bit complicated to follow <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> , but I think I'm getting it. I'll focus to fixing the bug stuff first and let the menu things for the last, afterall the menu is working well for now, the only thing we want to add it's a better looking thing.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:42:29

RambOrc

One functionality fix that'd be cool for the menu would be that it shows you only the maps from the KA mapinfo file instead of scrolling through lots of unnamed maps.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 16:51:47

Firebrand

I'll see what to do about that, also, I'm going to update the weapon pickup sprites to add all the existing weapons in the game and maybe make the number colored as the mana color those weapons need, that should help you to remember that when you are starting to play <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, that and tracking down/ fixing the things here will make it better for a public release this time, lol.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:03:09

RambOrc

BTW any suggestions what to replace the Cleric's Healing with?
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:06:17

Firebrand

I have been thinking, maybe we could add another spell, but I don't know what kind of spell, maybe something explosive or a different poison spell, I don't know... something like that.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 20:35:03

Ichor

How about Retribution? For every attack that damages the cleric, a certain percentage of it will also hurt the attacker. It would last a few seconds initially and the duration and damage percentage would increase as you gain levels.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 21:53:13

RambOrc

It has to be an offensive weapon/spell to fit the KA concept, that's why Healing is being removed in the first place. What about another melee weapon for the cleric? And a bit of rearranging his weapons: #1 Mace (as before) #2 Serpent Staff (as before) #3 new melee weapon #4 Ice Wand (swapped with Firestorm) #5 Firestorm (swapped with Ice Wand) #6 Poison Breath (swapped with #3) #7 Phoenix Rod (as before) #8 Wraithverge (as before) Also, looking now at the weapons table I see I didn't go through the Cleric's values (I first added everywhere fixed middle values and then obviously forgot to further modify some of them), these are the proposed changes to the damage values: #4 (Ice Wand): 8 #5 (Firestorm): 16/40 #7 (Phoenix Rod): 50 (and new mana usage 35) Also, #6 (Poison Breath) should be way faster too, currently you mostly end up breathing it in yourself. Regarding the Witchaven character's Magic Missiles spell, did you correct the speed yet? It was in the revised weapon table and I understood you last time that you implemented all changes from it, but when I tested yesterday I still ended up outrunning them without even trying to. Regarding the new weapon, I think it should be a magical melee weapon (like Timon's Axe with that glowing shit on it), damage/mana usage could be 56/8. We've got axe, hammer, staff, mace, morning star, sword, dagger, fists, gauntlets, chainsaw and maybe more I forgot to list, so... what about another morning star? AFAIK the original Witchaven one had both a horizontal slash and a vertical flick, you used the horizontal one with a fireball for the Witchaven guy, what about making the vertical flick'n'dip glow and be the new Cleric weapon? Would even fit the standard D&D rule of clerics being allowed only dull weapons.
Mon, 08 Aug 2005 22:33:47

Ichor

How about some kind of ornate scepter?
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 01:34:24

Firebrand

Hmm, I'll check the witchaven magic spell, maybe I forgot to implement the change, but I don't think so, as for the cleric weapon, I also think it could be a melee weapon and I accept the proposed change you mention Ramborc, I just want to know, what's that weapon you mention Ichor? (I mean, what's it supposed to do?), the name doesn't sounds to anything to me, heh! This afternoon I was able to fix the bot skill stuff and some of the bugs you mentioned before, I'll finish the rest during the week.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:02:18

Ichor

It's just your basic scepter with some added magic, maybe with some small poison damage or darkness effect added per attack. We could always think of a cool name (Adjudicator perhaps?) for it later.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 14:52:22

Firebrand

I decided to go with the morning star, I already made some new sprites for it, I think they look really good, we can use the healing spell for KH or any other project tough, because I think it was a great weapon too, but for KA it would be better to just have offensive spells.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:43:28

RambOrc

For SE we can use any number of offensive, defensive and misc spells, without an upper limit. For KA though balance and fast action are the most important things and only offensive weapons/spells can give that. There is a defensive powerup in the game anyway, the Icon. BTW I'm not sure whether Camper coded the Maulotaur powerup or not, it's the Maulotaur icon and if you run through it a Maulotaur spawns in the room and fights everybody except for you. To take care of spawning probs, I think it'd be best if the mapper had to define two objects for every such item, the item as such and with the same tag number also a spawn point. To get rid of the last possible spawn prob (a player stands there), the spawned Maulotaur should be able to telefrag (I hope this is happening BTW if a killed player resurrects in KA). If possible, it would be cool if there could be several spawn points in the vicinity with a random choice, this way it couldn't be used as a deliberate telefrag trap.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:54:42

Firebrand

Good idea Ramborc, I'll check to see if it's implemented, but why not use player starts too for the minotaur? that way it could telefrag anyone too, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, and that way the object wouldn't need to be modified in any way (but OTOH, I don't know if other objects can use the player starts too), or another chance would be to create a new kind of map spot specially designed for the minotaurs, that way no tag would be needed for it, just make the mapper to place the spots and that would be all.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:12:06

Firebrand

BTW, Ramborc? could you please make me a quick list of which artifacts should work for KA?
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 18:10:52

RambOrc

Player starts for the Maulotaur isn't really the idea, the beast should spawn in the same room the player is in, else it's not much use to him (and of course if the Maulotaur kills someone, the EXP goes to the player who summoned it too). Artifacts (or rather, items) that should work, all activating when you walk through them (no inventory in KA): - health vial: +10 HP - quartz flask: +25 HP - mystic urn: +100 HP - all the different armor types: +something AP these things are AFAIK all working and more or less abundant in the maps (I didn't find much armor though). AFAIK the Icon of the Defender is in the code too, Camper should know. There might be others he implemented too, dunno. Here is the list: - Icon of the Defender: invulnerability - Shadowsphere: partial invisibility - Maulotaur figurine: summons a farm animal - Pi Damage: all weapons do 3.14x damage - Boots of Speed: enhances speed They all activate at once and work for 30 secs. Not sure whether I forgot something from the list.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:14:53

Ichor

How about making invulnerability like the mage's version (reflective shield), complete with those purple things orbiting around you like the Heresiarch?
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:00:34

Firebrand

Let me get all these working and we can then complete new effects for them, my test tell me that the invulnerability effects for every class are already working there, so it shouldn't be any difficult to add any new ones for the remaining classes in the game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I was asking about the artifacts because they seem to be listed, but they don't activate when picked up <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> so there's a chance I could added some that weren't supposed to work, there's no shadowsphere or PI implemented, the only ones that are implemented are the boots of speed and the invulnerability, so I'll enable the others and work for the minotaur map spots then, I think those are the most flexible editing wise.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:41:20

RambOrc

Yep, I think a couple of rules where and how to add Maulotaur items as mapper is a lot less hassle than to try to write a code that always knows where to summon a Maulotaur. Like minimal size of the room, minimal sector height etc. As for invulnerability (and the other effects), they should be working the same way for every class, which is currently not the case with invulnerability. Oh yes I've been thinking about Morph Ovum/Porkelator, as a powerup it's obviously not going to work, what about making something like porkalator ballistas in some maps? Just an idea and definitely at the bottom of the priority list. BTW Ichor, still not wanting to join the SE team?
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:52:41

Ichor

Nah, I still have to work on my own project, and I have plenty of ideas for the next couple of hubs.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:20:51

Firebrand

Hey Ichor, but you could at least help with ideas now and then, and also you could help us with maps maybe, of course if you have the time, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I think you really have some potential to build cool maps! BTW, nice to see you around again! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Tue, 09 Aug 2005 22:29:45

Ichor

I'll come up with some ideas every so often if I can think of any (and maybe make a few sprites if I can), but as for maps, I'll probably not be able to make any since I have to work on my own.
Fri, 12 Aug 2005 23:12:59

Firebrand

Whew! I have been working all the day long on the code, I'm kinda motivated to finish all the new features for KA to make a public release, heh! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> Everything seems to be working so far, the new minotaur spots, the shadowsphere, even the PI damage it's already there, I also have updated the KA wadauthor config file supporting placement of minotaur spots, and the new artifacts, so the map editing can begin, lol. I'll be uploading it in some minutes (once I make the ZIP file and upload it), so you can test it and give me your comments on it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. EDIT: It's up now, heh! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:23:24

RambOrc

Working much better, I've been able to play for nearly 10 minutes in the River of Fire before it crashed:
Log: GREEN MANA
- Z_Free
- VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump
- VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon
- RenderSprite
- R_RenderMobjs
- R_RenderPlayerView
- SCR_Update
- Host_Frame


ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
From the very beginning there were 5 bots (one of each class), and though I've seen them once or twice stuck in a corner, mostly they were running around fine (actually still too fast even on baby skill, LOL). Been playing with the Witchaven class and weapons 1-7 worked fine. Will do more tests over the weekend, from this short sample things seem to work definitely better than before (RoF was crashing all the time in b3).
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 01:40:55

Firebrand

Those are wonderful news <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I don't really know what's wrong with the bots speed, it works fine for me, BTW, I forgot to say that the Gargoyle's Forest has all the artifacts that can be used now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I haven't tested very well if the PI Damage works now, I'll make a demo map for it tomorrow. And about that crash, I don't know what's that Z_Free bug really, I get the same errors here, but I don't think it's anything directly related to KA (but it could be a memory error).
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 02:40:04

RambOrc

Actually it might be that the bots aren't running so fast any more, but then they still jump around, I was trying to hit a fucking Witchaven guy and he jumped around me like a mouse around an elephant (except that I didn't have any more HP than him). I'll have to run more tests to see whether the running speed as such has decreased. If not it might be CPU-related, what CPU are you testing on?
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:50:48

Firebrand

I'm testing with a AMD XP +1600, it runs at 1.6GHz, with 1 GB RAM with 64 MB video card, I have added a double check of the bot skills depending the game speed, and actually discovered that one thing is the bot SKILL and another thing are the bots ATTRIBUTES, they are heavily related, but both have an effect on the bot's actions, for example: suppose that you have a bot ATTRIBUTE set at MEDIUM (aiming), and you set the game skill to BABY skill, the bot will react with MEDIUM skills, but the BABT setting will make it fail sometimes, but he'll have better aiming than a bot that has LOW aiming attribute, the problem is that attributes can't be changed inside the game, once the bot is declared with the MEDIUM attributes he can't change those into the game, so we have a new problem here, we need to declared different attribute skilled bots, which is not a problem really, it would just require to add another 48 bots for each skill, hehehehe! Or another solution is to really give names to the bots (Matt, Jhon, etc. <- Lame examples here <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> ) and make them have their attributes set to a lower level, which shouldn't be too difficult, I mean, we already have 48 bots, I don't think we need anymore than those, the only change would be the name you use when spawning them, or adding 48 bots in every skill, you tell me what should be done Ramborc.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:32:41

RambOrc

Well I think there should be a UT-like method instead of the current one for spawning bots anyway (i.e. you don't spawn them mid-game, you choose the number of bots when starting a multiplayer map and the game randomly choses or after a predefined pattern). Since currently bots have a class and a number (for color), is this number independent of everything else or could it be used for attribute level (1-5)?
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 12:14:49

RambOrc

Been playing the citadel for a very long time, everything seems to be much more bug free than a month ago, good. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I've been playing with all six classes and there doesn't seem to be any class related bug any more, because it crashed only after a very long time:
Log: CHAINGUN
- Z_Free
- VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump
- VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon
- RenderSprite
- R_RenderMobjs
- R_RenderPlayerView
- SCR_Update
- Host_Frame


ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
I see you put in the barrels, they make a real big difference towards sprites. While the pickups doesn't look strange as pixels IMO, big scenery objects do (you might want to try to replace things like the big gargoyle statues too for testing). I've noticed some very strange things with the EXP system though. For a long time, it seemed to work OK (I got up to LVL 4 and needed maybe 1500 to go for LVL 5), then suddenly I started seeing things like "you got lowered to level X" after a death, and that after every death in a row until I suddenly was back to level 1, and even after that it started to decrease below 1000, I was around 300 when the game crashed so I couldn't find out what happens once I reach 0 EXP. Also, when I died and respawned, sometimes I lost 100+ EXPs (normal case AFAIK), but at a couple of times I didn't lose anything or maybe 4-6 points, latter might be related to the next problem I'm reporting: the countdown visibly reduces EXP when you're standing around, but when you move, it doesn't. Is this a bug or a feature? Either way, I think it'd be better if the counter would tick down all the time, regardless of what the player is doing (if he's fighting and with at least some success, he'll gather a lot more EXP than what he's losing through the countdown). Overall, a much better impression than back when I threw up the question what we should do. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:19:29

dj_jl

- Z_Free
- VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump
- VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon
- RenderSprite
- R_RenderMobjs
- R_RenderPlayerView
- SCR_Update
- Host_Frame


ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
Found the problem, fixed.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:24:33

RambOrc

Great. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Can you give it to Firebrand so it can be put into RC1 ASAP? With this type of crash is gone, the game should be pretty stable by now.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:27:49

Firebrand

Right now, the experience decreases when the player velocity in x and y is zero (e.g. the player's map position doesn't changes), IIRC, the game gives you 5 seconds to stay still, then starts droping the experience count by ( 1 * exp level every second), but if you are pushing the attack button (e.g. sniping, chaingunning, etc.) there's no experience drop at all, I could change it easily if you want. The death penalty is (200 * exp level + random number between 0 & 100), the game stores the previous next of the last level (e.g. if you are level 2 the next it's 3000 exp. points, if you get level 3, the previous one is stores, if you die and your experience drops below the old next you'll lost a level, so it's very easy to loose a level if you just reached a new one), but I don't know how much experience you had after you lost the level, I'll make some tests on it myself to make sure everything works fine. We could replace the decorations with models if you want, it shouldn't be difficult to add them <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 14:56:40

RambOrc

Well to put it short, in about 4 deaths I lost something like 7-8000 EXP, maybe the prog decreased my EXP always with the LVL 4 mulitplier once I reached that level? As for the random number between 1 and 100, that could explain why it sometimes was very low. Actually, I think it's a bit too extreme, don't you think? Losing 6 or 600 EXP for being shot? That means if you're lucky 2-3x in a row and your foe isn't, you got a difference of 1000+ EXP, which can mean a level or two. I think a random number between 80% and 100% would be more balanced. As for the countdown, yes IMO it should constantly decrease, no matter what.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:02:41

Firebrand

[quote="dj_jl":1a4oqpw7]
- Z_Free
- VDirect3DDrawer::SetSpriteLump
- VDirect3DDrawer::DrawSpritePolygon
- RenderSprite
- R_RenderMobjs
- R_RenderPlayerView
- SCR_Update
- Host_Frame


ERROR: Z_Free: freed a pointer without ZONEID
Found the problem, fixed. Cool, I'll check it out ASAP, thanks Janis! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> . I'll make the changes for it then, also, I'll add a couple of bots changing the attributes to make some tests with them, so we can see how things work with both methods and see which one is better for KA, how about that?
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:10:26

RambOrc

Sounds good, just tell me how I summon those dumb bots.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 15:15:13

Firebrand

Let me add them first, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, we could make something like the actual spawning system, something like:
addbot botf31, where:

f = Fighter
3 = Color
1 = Attribute level
That combined with the skill level of the game will make every bot a bit more easier or difficult according to the user selections, I'll add a bot of each level of attributes of each class, that would be like adding test bots (e.g. none of the actual ones would need to be modified at all, just adding the new ones like the one in the example to the game to test and see how it works). To make this process easier and faster for everyone, I'll just upload a patch with the modified wad0.wad for the game and nothing else, as we'll be using the same base sprites, sounds etc. Just with modified code <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:30:31

Firebrand

I have uploaded the latest changes, to spawn the test bots you simply type something like this:
addbot botft1
Where "f" is the letter of the class you are refering to, each of the bots needs the "1" at the end, (e.g, botct1, botmt1, etc.), there's a special surprise if you type botwt2, heh! You'll spawn a hell bot (it's the bot with the attributes to the maximum, really difficult to kill, lol), just so you give an idea of how they work.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:36:22

RambOrc

So how do I exactly spawn a bot that's not so fast?
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 17:50:30

Firebrand

Their speed is lower than when they are running, there's no way to make them slower than that, that's the normal moving speed, (this time I swear it, lol <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> ) they are walking at the normal walking speed for each class, remember the fighter and the heretic are a bit faster than the other classes <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, every other class has the same moving speed. I have finished a complete list of bots with every bot & bot color and every bot attribute level implemented, I just have to test it to determine if it works, once that's done I'll upload it.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:03:54

Firebrand

It's done. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:08:40

RambOrc

Yes but what are the letters for the different attribute levels? As for the different speed of the classes, that should be corrected, the concept is that each player class is 100% the same except for weapons and visuals.
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:03:01

Firebrand

Sure, I'll correct it, the new way to spawn the bots is: addbot botL## Where: L is the class type the first # is the bot color (1 - <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> the second # is the bot attribute level (1 - 7)
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 19:05:57

RambOrc

1 is lowest 7 is highest right?
Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:35:40

Firebrand

Yes, that's right. I'll wait for you to test this release and then we can solve the final bugs (if any), so we can make a final release for good <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:12:39

RambOrc

I guess Janis' fix is not yet in the code, as it crashed pretty fast with the well-known error message. Any ETA on that? Also, would it be possible to implement a console command or whatever that summons 6 bots at once (one of each class, all different colors, all lowest skill)?
Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:26:14

Firebrand

It's up on KDev now, heh! I forgot to check the Vavoom't CVS repository until yesterday's night, it works pretty well <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I can now play strife without any problems now <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , thanks Janis!! About the console command, you could just type something like this in the cosole:
alias spawnbots:addbotf31;wait;addbotc21;wait;addbotm11;wait;addboth41;wait;addbotd51;wait;addbotw61;
That would make the command reside in the "config.cfg" file and you'll be able to use it anytime <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, hope that helps you out.
Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:41:54

Firebrand

Woohoo! Vacations at last (3 weeks), my next try will be to implement the path nodes and make them work, the first step has been took, to add a new object to reference them in, next step, to make the bots know they exist and how to use them, I have been thinking how to make it and I already have some ideas to implement it, let's hope they work and we can then start revamping the map objects for it! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:03:45

Firebrand

It seems the path nodes are working now and the bots already follow them with some problems, now I just need to fix these problems and make them follow all the time, with this I think we'll be almost done for a 1.0 official release <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:42:24

RambOrc

Sounds good. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Don't forget we need to revamp the maps a bit before the release though. DarkRaven, are you around? If yes, how long do you need to add the new items/banners to your maps?
Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:32:21

Firebrand

I'll upload a new version of "karena.wcf" later today so we can start revamping the maps for good <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:15:38

Firebrand

OK, the new version of the Wad Author config for KA is on KDev now, on the Camper subfolder <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:16:41

RambOrc

Why not in the arena subdir? <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->
Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:23:36

Firebrand

Moved the file, sorry.
Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:43:21

Firebrand

Janis, I have some questions regarding the 3d floors (extra floors), I already discovered that the sector is marked with a flag if it has an extra floor, is there anothe flag if the sector has an underwater area?? I'm asking this because when I added extra floor checks to the bots, they can't swim out of the underwater areas anymore because of the ceiling height, but I'm sure that if I add a check for underwater sectors they'll be able to ignore the ceiling height, even more questions, is there a way to know if an object is standing over the extra floor?? that would be useful to add some other checks I'm thinking of right now, thanks for the help Janis!
Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:07:51

dj_jl

Actors have property WaterLevel that tells if it's in water (1 - only feet, 3 - completely). For checking it actor is on extra floor you can do something like this: Floor != &Sector->floor (Floor may be different also in case when standing on the edge) or compare FloorHeight and z at sector's floor.
Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:08:38

RambOrc

Hey hey slow down, the bots are already more intelligent than I am... <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->
Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:25:35

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":1reelr45]Hey hey slow down, the bots are already more intelligent than I am... <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Really? I found them to be too easy for me, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Those checks are needed to avoid the bots getting stuck in strange places, that way they'll only follow the path nodes they can depending on their position in the map, the problem they now have is that they try to follow path nodes that are at any height and they try to get to them through strange places (like walls formed by 3d floors), that will stop this odd behaviour from them. Thanks Janis!
Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:21:35

dj_jl

You can avoid most of this by first checking if bot can see the node.
Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:01:53

Firebrand

Yep, I'm already doing that, but the 3d floors in the KA maps sometimes create solid walls that even when they are higher than their own height they try to cross, making them get stuck on them, also there are some cases where they check the extra floor FloorHeight and determine it's OK to croos it, but from underneat the extra floor, I just added them to check for the bExtraFloor flag for some of these cases and it seems to work OK, there might be some other special cases around the maps, but I'm already testing it in all the maps to see if I find anymore problems like this ones, once I implemented some checks for the ceiling heights of the openings they weren't able to swim, so I also added a check to see if the bots are underwater to let them swim out of it, the only remaining problem is to make them really swim when they are higher or lower than the object origin they are roaming to, any help on this one Janis?
Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:10:59

RambOrc

Actually, at one place (in the starting outdoors area of the Docks), there is the problem that the 3D floor is also above the water, meaning it's very difficult as a human player to get out of the water, meaning there is no need to code some complicated routine for the bots to try to get out of the water there, IMO the map (and any similar maps) should be tweaked a bit (like adding a ramp or a couple of steps at one point so you can just walk out of the water).
Sat, 27 Aug 2005 15:36:26

Firebrand

Yes, that's a valid option that it's easier to implement, you are right Ramborc, now that I think about it, the bots already swim to some height, we could place the ramp and slope it to help them climb to the 3d floor again <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I'll make a test with that solution and see how it works.
Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:32:47

RambOrc

While I'm still testing with the previous version (the latest you uploaded), it's already coming along nicely, I could play for quite a long time with a full server on the Citadel, and when it finally crashed after like 20 minutes or so, it was with a new error, not one of the old ones:
Log: CRYSTAL VIAL
- (BotPlayer.CheckStuff)
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame


Exiting due to external exception
I also discovered a major playability/frustration issue: while in theory it sounded cool that you can use certain weapons only when you reach a certain level, this is something we'll have to reserve for SE, in KA it's often just plain annoying. I guess I half-realized this when I asked you earlier on to lower the level requirements... so pls take that check completely out of the code, i.e. no matter what level you are you should be able to pick up all weapons and powerups. This also means that right now there is nothing more to levels than getting more HP/speed/whatever, which is actually a good thing judging from my feeling in the game, without losing access to advanced weaponry it's not that much of a worry whether I'll slip down a level or two after a couple of lost firefights. Actually I have an idea how it could be modified: - you start at 100 HP (not 90 as now) and 100% of all attributes - all classes have the exact same values for all attributes (i.e. no more fast marine/fighter and slow mage) - every time you increase a LVL all these values increase (but not all at the same percentage, e.g. with running speed I think it's way too much to get much of a boost on it as the character will become badly controllable, but with firing rate it could be lot more), including things like - if you fall back a LVL, you just fall back and your max values are lowered (since HP is the only one that could be this way over the new base value, I suggest we just let it go, we don't talk about more than 10-25 HP at max, which you lose anyway once you've been hit once or twice) - this way I guess the number of max levels could be somewhere between 5 and 10. No matter how many LVLs, the highest possible LVL should give you 200 HP and max double the attributes as on LVL 1 (and on some way lower). I took a look at the HUD and there is a bit of unused space on the right of the Flechette, there could be two colored bars there, one showing the LVL you have (i.e. if there are 10 LVLs max and you're LVL 5, it'll be filled up to half), and the other one showing you your EXP rate within that LVL (i.e. if you are LVL 1 with 1200 EXP and need 2000 EXP to reach LVL 2, the lower fifth of the bar will be colored). In turn, those 3 ugly numbers on the upper right should disappear (or be a console variable for testing/developer purposes, but it has no place in the actual game IMO). With the level/weapon dependency discarded, those irritating messages in the center of the screen are past too (else I'd have suggested to move them to the regular messages top left). It seems the weapons table will need still more tweaking, some weapons seem to bust away a foe easily, while with others it seems to be a lot less effective (particularly the shotgun seemed to be very ineffective compared to what I thought it would do considering the damage values). Can't wait to see the path stuff you've been coding, right now bots are getting stuck at the same places. Oh yes another thing for the map reworking for the public release, there should be a LOT more starting spots than 8, too often if I kill a sucker when he just spawned, he'll respawn at the same place. Alternatively, we could use the thing Q3A had, i.e. that when you respawn you've got invulnerability for a couple of seconds. Actually, this second is very cool IMO, I think we should definitely implement it (with or without the increased number of spawnspots). BTW a new idea, for some well-done actions the player could be rewarded with a bonus, like 20 of each color ammo for a double kill or similar.
Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:40:16

Firebrand

I'm happy to announce that tomorrow I can finally upload a new beta test, obviously I'll take note of your suggestions here too, but I'd really recommend you play the new build for some time and then decide upon which things you want to modify/add, as for the bonus stuff for the player, I really like the idea a lot, heh! Also the one about being invinsible for some time when you respawn, that's a classic one for DM games too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for the weapon limits for the levels, I think it was a good idea, play the latest build, see what has been fixed (there were some bugs with the decreasing level variables the limit to decrease a level wasn't updated accordingly to the level decrement, so you could lose a level during two consecultive deaths, which wasn't good, also sometimes the death penalty was higher that 200 * exp_level, I have fixed it too), the path noding works extremely well, but unfortunately, as new objects are placed in the map, there's a small risk of getting flickering with much action going on <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, that won't be a problem tough, once you build the complete GLVIS stuff, the flickering seems to reduce considerably. I'll check that odd bug you post here Ramborc, maybe I can fix it before uploading the next internal test version <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:46:17

Firebrand

As I said above, I fixed the bug and added the two new experience and level bars into the status bar, it wasn't as difficult as I tought it would be <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I have finally uploaded a new version of KA RC2, it's the best one so far, for testing the path nodes, the only two maps that already have them placed all around are the docks (map02) and the river of fire (map03/04 I don't really know), try both maps and tell me how you feel those noob bots, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, also, you can try the codex of wisdom map and agio, in those maps the bots got stuck trying to move to walls formed by 3d floors, that has been fixed with the additional checks I added for Transverse Path code, in the docks the bots tried to walk inside the window on the very backyard with water inside the building, they now try it for some time then give up and continue looking for something else too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I hope this finally ends with the stuck bots problem, I tested it in almost every map, they didn't got stuck AFAIK. It also has some bug fixes here and there, once we make a complete release I'll make a list of them.
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:19:11

RambOrc

The RC2 zipfile has only 3 wadfiles in it, are you sure that's sufficient?
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:46:32

RambOrc

You know what I'm thinking? Now that the bots are starting to be quite smart, playing KA alone on a computer is becoming ever more attractive (I enjoy it quite a lot and don't feel that much of a need to play against human opponents over LAN or the internet), we could add some of the special gaming modes to KA with the current code already, like Critter Hunt where the bots don't need to "know" much more than they currently do, it's only a question of defining who is the enemy and who isn't. I thought of maps like the Citadel, and IMO a slightly modified version of the original Critter Hunt idea is already possible, with "Clean out the Castle" or some similar name. The idea would be that all players start at the same point and the gameflow is half coop half SP, i.e. the players don't shoot at each other but at the monsters and try to clean out the castle and reach the exit (original SP maps from Heretic are perfect for this). The winner is the one with the highest score, with points being assigned for killing monsters (different random amounts for different monster types) and maybe other things. The game would end when one of the players reaches the exit, which might give him some extra points too (maybe opening every door/throwing every switch as first player could give you some points, encouraging players to not just hang back and let the others do the work). We could even add some extra items/switches/etc to the maps which also yield extra points. The game could have some options you can set either way, like friendly fire (i.e. whether you can kill the other players or not), the winner being the one who reaches the exit first, points being awarded only for monster kills, the game ending only once all monsters are dead, etc. There could also be a point detraction for every time the player dies (also getting back to LVL 1 and losing all weapons/inventory). I'll go and check the other game modes later on, trying to decide which ones could also be converted relatively easily into the current code. The way KA looks now it's pretty good, and adding a couple of unique game modes besides DM would IMO double its value for gamers.
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:57:39

RambOrc

OK here it comes (I'm referring to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/arena/KoraxArenaConcept_1_1.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... pt_1_1.pdf</a><!-- m --> ) CTF would need a lot of work so I guess it's out for the time being (might not be even worth before there is a 100% good human network code, considering bots are frustratingly dumb CTF players even in big commercial titles). Team DM should theoretically work according to Camper, I also guess it wouldn't need much more than DM. Could you look into this and report your findings? If Team DM works, Domination might not be a difficult one to implement neither, especially with the pathnodes already in the code. I still miss the original UT Domination, there never were more than 5-10 maps for it in the original UT and in later games there were fuckedup versions of it I never liked. Domination would work great in small and mid-sized maps (i.e. DarkRaven's), meaning you'd play them on different maps than Clear out the Castle (which is good). Assault: let's ice it for the time being. Kill the Heresiarch: Firebrand (and the other programmers) should be able to tell how difficult/simple it would be to implement. Football: it should still work I guess, could you check into it Firebrand? All it should need is the special football object that's in the code. OTOH I guess it might be difficult for bots to "understand" the point of the game, you tell me. Critter Hunt: Clear out the Castle (working name) for now, Critter Hunt as such could be implemented later on (I think it'd be more complicated, given the more complicated rules). Summon Contest: not yet. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Kill the fool with the chicken: it might be difficult with bots (if not, just say so). Club the Pig: sounds rather difficult to properly code too. This means premier target are Team DM, Domination and Clear out the Castle, right? (unless some of the listed game modes are very easy to code)
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:34:24

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]CTF would need a lot of work so I guess it's out for the time being (might not be even worth before there is a 100% good human network code, considering bots are frustratingly dumb CTF players even in big commercial titles). I think the same thing, CTF might need a lot of fixing to the path noding system, the addition of different routes for defending/attacking the base, etc. So it would require even more time to implement. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Team DM should theoretically work according to Camper, I also guess it wouldn't need much more than DM. Could you look into this and report your findings? Yes, Team DM should work fine, I think I wanted to add some other things to it, I don't know where I let my notes regarding the changes, but once I find them I'll post the changes here. I commented some code for those before mentioned changes, but I can easily return it back. I could test it a bit for now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]If Team DM works, Domination might not be a difficult one to implement neither, especially with the pathnodes already in the code. I still miss the original UT Domination, there never were more than 5-10 maps for it in the original UT and in later games there were fuckedup versions of it I never liked. Domination would work great in small and mid-sized maps (i.e. DarkRaven's), meaning you'd play them on different maps than Clear out the Castle (which is good). Domination would need some additions too, the bots might need to know which are the objectives of the map and maybe some new path nodes that have a flag marking a certain thing as the objective too, which is not difficult, I was also thinking to maybe add another kind of path nodes for camping spots, sniping spots, etc. depending the needs of the map. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Assault: let's ice it for the time being. Right, let's let it like that until the netcode is ready. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Kill the Heresiarch: Firebrand (and the other programmers) should be able to tell how difficult/simple it would be to implement. It wouldn't be too difficult to implement, but we would need to make some changes to the bot code to "support" the heresiarch weapons, class change etc. I don't know, maybe some other changes to the player code too would be required for it. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Football: it should still work I guess, could you check into it Firebrand? All it should need is the special football object that's in the code. OTOH I guess it might be difficult for bots to "understand" the point of the game, you tell me. I could easily add a new ball and mark it with a flag so bots know that they should "use it" to kick it away for now, but maybe we should need another kind of path node to make them point the ball at the goal line/point. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Critter Hunt: Clear out the Castle (working name) for now, Critter Hunt as such could be implemented later on (I think it'd be more complicated, given the more complicated rules). It's just a matter of adding a flag to the monsters so the bots recognize them as enemies too, so it's the most easy game mode to implement, also it will require the implementation of the monsters (obviously), I was already implementing that part of the code but I stopped to finish the path nodes, it's really easy to do this. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Summon Contest: not yet. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Not even think about it yet, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Kill the fool with the chicken: it might be difficult with bots (if not, just say so). I think it would be kinda boring just to play it with bots, don't you? [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]Club the Pig: sounds rather difficult to properly code too. It's difficult and boring to play it just with bots too. [quote="RambOrc":3osl5t5m]This means premier target are Team DM, Domination and Clear out the Castle, right? (unless some of the listed game modes are very easy to code) I'm with you on this too, let's focus our efforts in implementing Team DM and Clear the Castle game modes for now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:35:50

Firebrand

OH! BTW, what about the weapon level requirements? Will they change or stay as they are?
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:24:57

RambOrc

OK then let's leave Domination too for now. That still means 3 game modes right out of the box when KA 1.0 goes public, DM and Team DM is the groundwork of every multiplayer shooter and we've got it, and Clear out the Castle would right at the beginning show to folks that the different player classes with different weapons are not the only thing that sets it apart from the rest of the pack. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I guess Football should be either a secret map (and for human players only), or completely put aside for the moment. Maybe if Football doesn't come through, we could use the Stadium map for something else (it's way too cool to just drop it forever). Which reminds me, KA already has its own skybox, I'd like one where you've got all around the sides a lots of tribunes, as if everything in KA would take place in a huge circus/arena. These tribunes would reach only maybe halfway up the side of the skybox, meaning depending on the map the author can always decide which feeling he wants to project and either put medium-sized walls all around (normally they are there anyway in a map), or make some lower walls/no walls at all (e.g. just bars) so that you can see you're in the middle of that huge arena. Weapon level requirements: yes, they should be completely disabled, by now I think it's one of those features that sound great on paper but don't really work out in the actual game. It's a typical RPG feature which will be most probably fine in SE, but it's no good in KA. Another thing I noticed, ammo goes out very fast. I checked and it seems a mana cube gives me only 15 ammo, IMO it should be 20 or 25. And the Krater should give more than 30, say 50. Oh yes here is a new idea for dealing with Flechettes and Discs of Repulsion, which are currently somewhat useless because of the difficulty of using them and a weapon. What about the 0 and 9 keys raising/lowering these modules that are kind of "attached" to your active weapon? I.e. if you press 0 to bring the Flechette "module" up, then no matter what weapon you're using, every time you fire it you also throw out a flechette (as long as you have ammo for it), or if you press 9 to bring up the Disc module, every time you fire a weapon you also automatically repulse everyone and everything in your vicinity. If you change weapons, the "addon module" stays, you have to manually lower it again. Whether both can be on at the same time is a Q I'm not yet sure about, but I think it'd be interesting to try out this idea. p.s. regarding my question about the RC2 ZIP, are you sure the 3 wadfiles are all? I'd have thought the progs or the exe are needed too (that's where the new code changes are, or?).
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:39:21

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":2z4rt3sb]Which reminds me, KA already has its own skybox, I'd like one where you've got all around the sides a lots of tribunes, as if everything in KA would take place in a huge circus/arena. These tribunes would reach only maybe halfway up the side of the skybox, meaning depending on the map the author can always decide which feeling he wants to project and either put medium-sized walls all around (normally they are there anyway in a map), or make some lower walls/no walls at all (e.g. just bars) so that you can see you're in the middle of that huge arena. I'll get to work on it when the code is done <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="RambOrc":2z4rt3sb]Weapon level requirements: yes, they should be completely disabled, by now I think it's one of those features that sound great on paper but don't really work out in the actual game. It's a typical RPG feature which will be most probably fine in SE, but it's no good in KA. Another thing I noticed, ammo goes out very fast. I checked and it seems a mana cube gives me only 15 ammo, IMO it should be 20 or 25. And the Krater should give more than 30, say 50. OK, I'll take it out then. Sure! I'll update the mana pickups then too. [quote="RambOrc":2z4rt3sb]p.s. regarding my question about the RC2 ZIP, are you sure the 3 wadfiles are all? I'd have thought the progs or the exe are needed too (that's where the new code changes are, or?). LOL, remember that Vavoom has progs in it, they only affect the gameplay to a certain level, the executable handles some other more internal stuff in the game (which is more comples to do AFAIK), for KA we are now only working with the progs part of the game, just gameplay stuff is being modified, it also has some stuff for the menus too, but the most complex stuff (sound, rendering, etc.) comes from the executable, which is better, because that way we only need to update the "wad0.wad" and any other wads we modify to make "upgrade patches" for KA, which are easier to download than a 12MB file, of course, the final release will be a full distro package, with all the stuff the old betas had, for now it's easier for me to upload a 5/7MB file than a 12/12.5MB file each time, lol, also there's no point in uploading everything if not all has changed. AFAIK, there's no need for us to modify the "Vavoom.exe" for KA, only to update rendering changes for example or sound changes like the MP3 file playin (that is the main reason that I uploaded it since KA 0.3 beta).
Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:10:37

RambOrc

Ah OK, I didn't know the progs are in the wadfile.
Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:34:22

RambOrc

OK let's start with the very good news: I've been playing River of Fire with 6 bots (one of each class) for nearly an hour and in the end I quit because I was futilely waiting for a crash. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> The pathnodes seem to have solved the generic getting stuck, however I've seen a new kind of prob: bots are getting stuck at their start position, I've seen as many as 3 bots stuck together in a spawn position. Which leads me to a different shortcoming, but one easily corrected: too few start spots in the maps (at least in River of Fire and Citadel), for 8 players there should be not 8 but rather 16-24 start spots. Also, in RoF all start spots seem to be in a few places around the start/end area. There should be many start spots out in the river itself, there was zero action out there, nearly all the fight took place in the same small rooms close to the SP start. Another getting stuck prob for bots, this is one I've reported earlier on in the Docks, in RoF it's the same, bots are trying to get through openings where the ceiling is too low for a player to get through. I've also seen some other kinds of getting stuck at several places in the map, but in these random cases (at least they looked to be random) they reacted to my presence, either already as I got close to them, or at latest when I attacked them). Regarding the leveling system, it's somewhat buggy, the moment you start losing levels it screws up somewhat and relates to wrong levels. In the end I had 0 EXP and was still LVL 2 (the good news is EXP didn't went into negative). At any rate, I found that leveling up after 5 is nearly impossible, and since with the new concept no crucial features are bound to a level, I suggest the leveling becomes faster, i.e. you get to LVL 1 with 1000 EXP, LVL 2 with 2000 EXP, LVL 5 with 5000 EXP and LVL 10 with 10'000 EXP, i.e. the minimum EXP required for a LVL is LVL*1000. This would allow faster leveling up/down which would make it more fun (like even on LVL 9 if you get killed once or twice you're back to LVL <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->. This would allow us to create a new DM game end type, adding to the usual time limit and frag limit the option to end the game once the first player reaches LVL 10. If I understand you right, now the wadfile already contains the GL nodes and the full (i.e. not the fast) vis data, right?
Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:07:36

Firebrand

Yes, thats right Ramborc, I alredy built full GLVIS data on that wad file you've got, as fr the leveling system, I'm still discovering lots of small problems with it, the bots sometimes don't react to window checks correctly (I don't know why this happens, I'm still looking deeper into it), and quite happy to hear you didn't had any crashes this time <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, that means that almost every several bugs have been solved, there are still some small problems related to bot code and leveling system, but I'm already looking into it, I already found it's quite difficult to get past level 5 with the new system (top being LVL 10), heh! The bots get really itchy about it now, lol, also the limits are way to high for getting to next levels, so I think that having a limit like the one you mention or LVL * 1500 at much will be a lot better for KA, I'll fix the limit and check the problem related to lowering levels, sometimes the value for lowering level is lower or higher to the actual one, also the penalty sometimes goes way higher, lower than it should be, don't know why neither, I'll double check that. The bots also might need some code to add team allies, yesterday, when I was testing the code for team DM the bots just kill without helping a bit to their team mates, which is rather bad for this kind of gameplay mode, I already got the source code from an old version of Skulltag (which the Vavoom bots are based on AFAIK), which already has this part of code, with some modifications, it can be adapted nearly without problems to the actual KA code, I'll try to do it during the week, so my last vacations week can go dedicated to the last gameplay mode (maybe a bit longer, lol), let's see what will happen then.
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:03:14

RambOrc

Last time I played team DM regularly it was back on Q3A and I don't recall bots caring about their teammates and it never disturbed me. I mean it's Team Deathmatch and not Team Fortress. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Unless you've got some ideas you want to try, IMO it's fine to just leave it the way it is. BTW the 8 player limit, is this really a valid thing in Vavoom or could it be raised to 12? I was also thinking about player classes and IMO we should stick to the current 6, not adding new ones. All 6 player classes are humans, and I think it would be important not to add nonhuman classes, considering that we'll fill up the game with lots of different types of monsters. As long as all player classes look basically different from the monsters, detectable at first sight, there should be less problems with more complex game modes. Work on the two nonhuman classes started this far (Hunter, not sure whether anything has really been done yet and Gargoyle, not sure how much work has been done this far) could be used in SE to some extent (like the inscreen gargoyle claws for Possession). 6 is also a good number, it's a big enough variety but not yet an unmanageable amount. Also, with 12 max slots it would be easy to auto-assign things (like in a team DM both teams have one member of each class, the class the player chooses isn't represented by a bot in his team).
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:16:17

RambOrc

Thinking about team modes, I got a new idea: every character class should have a special ability that affects all friendly players within a small circle. If a player wants to use this ability, he has hold down its key. As long as that key is pressed, he can't do anything else. As long as he's using his ability, it slowly adds a designated kind of resource to every friendly player in the vicinity, like when the Mage uses his all players get an ammo increase of 1 ammo/second of every color, if the Fighter uses his they get an AP increase of 1 point/sec, with the Cleric 1 HP/sec etc. Not too much so that it can't quickly fix up a group in the middle of a battle, but high enough so it's worth using it. Since the team member using it is 100% immobilized and defenseless, the other teammates have to protect him. The idea started actually from another one, i.e. that the Clear out the Castle game could be played both in individual and also in team mode, in the latter case half the players being one team and the other half being the opposing team. They can't hurt each other, only the monsters, and the team scoring more points wins.
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:31:28

RambOrc

I've no played the Docks, surprisingly the bots were stuck a lot of the time, usually I found only 1-2 running around - the start position stuck I've seen in RoF applies here too. Also, the bots are clearly not capable of managing swimmable water, and since the only such AFAIK is in the Docks, I guess we'll just have to either make it into a walkable water pool (it'd be a pity since it looks nice) or create a new type of linedef that can be applied to all around that pool so bots can't cross it (such a linedef type would be good anyway).
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:52:00

Firebrand

I have managed to update the level requirements this far, as for the nonhuman classes, it's kinda pity that it can't be included <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, I would have liked to have at least one nonhuman class, but well, we could recycle the sprites for something else, I don't know if the number of max. players in game can be raised easily, Janis might have a better answer for this, what do you say Janis? I say that we add some small stuff regarding team mates, like the bot not staying away from you much from a certain distance, and maybe helping you if you are having a bad time against an enemy too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, as for the player spots, that could be done easily (placing more in the maps), I also think it's quite necessary in some maps too. As for the special abilities, that sounds quite cool! Let's get it into the game too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->! We could change the clear the castle concept a bit for a team mode, or create another gameplay mode using the same concept, maybe take out the switched stuff for team game and just make it so the player that kills more monsters wins, to make it more fun and less complex than a race through a complete map (I don't know if I explained myself here). As for swimmable water, I think we could make something about it, I'm still thinking in adding a small routine for the bots just knowing that they can go up and down, we could make something for now so the bots know that they shouldn't enter swimmable water for now and add the routine for another KA version, not all should be fixed as of now, right? I have a question regarding the new leveling system, how much do you think increment values for the player abilities should be enough, I already have been checking how much the actual increments are, and doing some calculations as to how they might be decent amounts of increments for them, but I haven't got a decent approach to it, any suggestions might come handy here, thanks! BTW, I have you some good news Ramborc! It seems Janis started doing some net code and I yesterday saw that the CVS got updated with some packet compression code for Vavoom! I already applied it for KA, but I haven't had time to really determine if there's improvement or not yet... Once I have a chance I'll play via LAN with my brother and see how it works, but I think it means that the first KA release could come with the new netcode included too! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. Let's hope it can be the case, heh!.
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:58:35

RambOrc

Regarding Clear out the Castle, the switch throwing thing was just an idea, testing should be able to determine whether points given for monsters only is enough or not (it might well be). That way it could be the same game for single and team mode. Oh yes the Heretic maps (and any other SP maps we convert later on) need to be done in two versions, for DM all scripts should be run at start (or the map should be modified) so that there are no closed doors, barred doorways and the like, whereas in the Castle mode all these things should work just like in SP, i.e. even more complex as right now (color keys should be have to picked up and used to open color coded doors). Yep, I think the whole swimming prob should be completely postponed at the moment and solved by a quick workaround. I started writing about the 10 levels and then I suddenly thought about how there are 6 player classes and that we could maybe use the number 6 as a kind of "magic number" in the game, like making max 6 levels, the superdamage item (which still hasn't be implemented) making 6x damage and similar stuff. Regardless of the number of levels, the highest level should raise most attributes to double of their original value, i.e. 200 instead of 100 HP, half the ammo usage for weapons (but there needs to be a check that makes sure at least 1 ammo is always used, unlike in KMOD here it wouldn't be cool at all if a weapon could be fired without using ammo), half the delay between shots/melee attacks, etc. One thing that should go up by much less is moving speed, it shouldn't exceed 120-125% of the original value even on the highest level. Also regardless of the number of levels, all these values should increase in same increments at every levelup (and drop again when leveling down). For instance if LVL 6 is the max, that means 5 levelup steps, meaning every time 20% of the original value is added, i.e. when you reach LVL 2 you are at 120 HP instead of 100, at LVL 3 you've got 140 HP, at LVL 4 160 HP, at LVL 5 180 HP and finally at the highest level, LVL 6, you get 200 HP limit. Another thing I forgot yesterday, armor gives IMO too little boost, most of the time I have very little armor if any, whereas armor is very good, at one time I had 200 armor and when I was blasted with some big badass weapon, I realized with a big surprise that I lost all 200 points of armor but only a single point of health, that's some good use for AP. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> For a starter you could try doubling the AP you get from picking up an armor piece, in testing it'll be apparent whether that's sufficient or whether the values need to be increased still. Another thing, the Shotgun/Super Shotgun is too weak, while on paper the damage looks impressive, in the game itself it's not, too much of the damage is scattered away from the target even at short ranges, even some melee weapons require you to be less close to a foe before being able to use the full damage. There was one single time when I was able to kill a bot with the super shotgun with a single shot, he was stuck and I walked up as close to him as possible. Else even firing from a step or two away it isn't enough any more, meaning in a typical battle it's a rather useless weapon, especially because of the long reload time.
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:12

Firebrand

I'll check it out, there could be a problem with the weapon's code, I'll use these values and see how it works then <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:05:09

RambOrc

Problem with the weapon code? What do you mean?
Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:21:22

Firebrand

Maybe I forgot to apply the damage to the player's attributes or something is wrong with the damage values, or something else more stupid <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> . I sometimes get distracted and make small mistakes when coding, for example, when I was making the new leveling system values this morning I made some mistakes with the numbers and the decrement of levels was double or triple most of the time, even with lowering 1 exp point for any level <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> , I looked everywhere but in the give experience part of the code, there was my mistake, lol. Maybe it's something similar to that, besides, the doom weapons have the problem that what makes the damage it's each one of the weapons puff, if each of the shotgun puffs makes 5 damage, and the shotgun shots like 7 puffs, then the total damage is (5 * 7 = 35), that might explain why the damage is not the same all the time, the damage amount will be that of the puffs that hit the player body, not those that fail him (but I think you already know that, so...) and that every one of the "guns" has exactly the same damage rate as all of them share the puffs (which are the ones doing the damage), so I created a different function for the chaingun and the super shotgun with the same code, just increasing the damage rate of the puffs, and another one for the pistol and the shotgun, with the same damage rates, it's a bit complicated, I hope this covers what you asked somewhat, anything else, just ask <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. EDIT: BTW, in case you are interested, I made a check in the code the actual damage rates are these for each of the "guns": pistol: shots only one puff that makes 5 damage each. shotgun: shots 7 puffs that make 5 damage each. chaingun: shots 1 puff that makes 7 damage each. super shotgun: shots 20 puffs that make 7 damage each.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:01:39

RambOrc

Ah, I didn't know the super shotgun shots the same strength puffs the standard does, just more of them... at any rate, try making the pistol/shotgun puff 10 instead of 5 damage. Actually, you could try increasing all 4 weapons to 10 damage/puff and we'll see how it works out. BTW can you upload a new binary soon? This week I have time to test things, next week not.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:21:43

RambOrc

[quote="Firebrand":2wtweb1h]About the console command, you could just type something like this in the cosole:
alias spawnbots:addbotf31;wait;addbotc21;wait;addbotm11;wait;addboth41;wait;addbotd51;wait;addbotw61;
That would make the command reside in the "config.cfg" file and you'll be able to use it anytime <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, hope that helps you out. Well I just tried it and it doesn't work at all, I tried it with variations like "addbot botf31;" but no go neither.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:25:37

RambOrc

I've tried Codex of Wisdom and Agio, in Agio the game crashed after maybe a minute:
Log: YOU REACHED LEVEL 3
- (BotPlayer.CheckStuff)
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame


Exiting due to external exception
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:01:46

RambOrc

Another bug, these arrows are stationary and remain there for the rest of the game, they are I guess the result of some weapon discharge: [img:37dthiro]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ramborc/arrows.jpg[/img:37dthiro]
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:41:42

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":3qrgmkvd]Ah, I didn't know the super shotgun shots the same strength puffs the standard does, just more of them... at any rate, try making the pistol/shotgun puff 10 instead of 5 damage. Actually, you could try increasing all 4 weapons to 10 damage/puff and we'll see how it works out. BTW can you upload a new binary soon? This week I have time to test things, next week not. Sure! I'll try to fix the leveling system values and upload a new binary once it's done, but you should be aware that there will be some problems with leveling up/down for the values and other small problems too, but you know it will be fixed <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I'll check those bugs you posted here too.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:04:21

RambOrc

As long as it has less bugs than the previous binary, it's always worth getting it to me this week, I'm firing up KA several times a day this week to test this and that. Meaning if you give me a build with Team DM, I can test that too.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:38:02

Firebrand

OK, I'll focus on fixing these bugs and finishing implementing Team DM, then let's see what comes from it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:30:39

Firebrand

OK, it seems the bots can already look for monsters <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> (I'm testing this as I write here, heh!).
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:38:11

Firebrand

OK, there's a new beta in the KDev FTP now, please test Team DM and the monster tracking of the bots using Hexdd.wad with the file parameter Ramborc, I have tracked down some of the bugs you posted here, but not all of them are solved, I focused on implementing Team DM and the monster tracking for bots, it would be cool if you could make a small map for testing with monsters, heh!
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:29:21

RambOrc

Looks like bots are tracking monsters, I guess it's possible they attack them only if they are attacked (or the other way around), not sure how to check that out. Team DM: how do I set up the teams?
Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:50:16

Firebrand

For now you can spawn a colored bot (0 = Red, 1 = Blue), if you are colored blue and spawn a blue bot, he won't be attacking you, same with red team, there's no new menus as of yet, I'm almost finished with the team implementation and I had to fix some small problems that were in the code (nothing serious).
Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:17:34

Firebrand

I'm still working hard on the new leveling system, just as a side note, when that's done I'll get to work in a way to automatically spawn bots in the maps somehow (because I'm getting tired of having to manually do it now).
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:56:52

Firebrand

Janis, could there be a way to add something to the MAPINFO lumps like a bot definition for every map, so I can add something to the level startup code and spawn the bots automatically?? Any help on what to do to add it will be apreciated, thanks! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:41:36

RambOrc

I suggest that the auto-spawn includes 6 bots, one of each class when it's a DM map (I think easiest will be if we simply put a tag into every map that says what game mode it is for, in that way some maps will exist in several copies but a couple of megs extra are nothing today).
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:41:25

dj_jl

[quote="Firebrand":1f4zke7l]Janis, could there be a way to add something to the MAPINFO lumps like a bot definition for every map, so I can add something to the level startup code and spawn the bots automatically?? Any help on what to do to add it will be apreciated, thanks! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I don't want to add such specific things to MAPINFO right now. Here's another idea: Create a bot spawner object that spawns a bot depending on arguments and destroys itself. And then you can use ACS to spawn this thing which will spawn a bot (it's a good idea to have some delays between spawns).
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:41:44

Firebrand

[quote="dj_jl":1zpw7070]I don't want to add such specific things to MAPINFO right now. Here's another idea: Create a bot spawner object that spawns a bot depending on arguments and destroys itself. And then you can use ACS to spawn this thing which will spawn a bot (it's a good idea to have some delays between spawns). OK. I'll do it like that then. [quote="RambOrc":1zpw7070]I suggest that the auto-spawn includes 6 bots, one of each class when it's a DM map (I think easiest will be if we simply put a tag into every map that says what game mode it is for, in that way some maps will exist in several copies but a couple of megs extra are nothing today). Yeah! That's another thing I wanted help on, I know the map alias thing in the MAPINFO, but there should be a way to make the game recognize different maps for every different gameplay mode DM something for DM maps, FT for football maps, CL for clean the castle, DOM for domination, etc.
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:05:15

RambOrc

Does Vavoom/the prog know what the name of the file/map is? If yes, we could just name them with the game mode at the beginning of the file (like DM_AncientArena).
Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:02:33

Firebrand

Vavoom already has a "map alias" MAPINFO section that tells the name of the map if it's not "MAPXX" format, you can name a map CASTLE or anything with it, so we could do something like KADM01, KADM02, etc. for the DM maps and other gameplay modes. But they will be listed in all the gameplay modes in the map selection menu, that's the only problem I can see from this, and I don't know if there's an easy solution for it.
Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:48

dj_jl

It shouldn't be a problem to filter maps depending on the selected game mode.
Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:53:57

Firebrand

How would you do it? (I'm just curious to know how... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->)
Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:52:10

dj_jl

It's in CVS, see MenuChoice_Level for details.
Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:40:35

Firebrand

I have another problem now, I'm making the bots recognize team mates (again), with a new approach (more similar to the skulltag one), here's the code for it:
	float closest_dist, test;
	Actor target;
	int i, j;

	//is mate alive?
	if (ally)
	{
		if (ally.Health > 0)
			ally = none;
		else
		{
			last_mate = ally;
			return ally;
		}
	}

	//Check old_mates status.
	if (last_mate)
	{
		if (last_mate.Health > 0)
		{
			last_mate = none;
		}
	}

	for (i = 0; i < MAXPLAYERS; i++)
	{
		if (svvars->Players.Color == player.Color)
		{
			ally = svvars->Players.MO;
			break;
		}
	}

	target = none;
	closest_dist = 99999.0;

	//Check for player friends
	for (j = 0; j < MAXPLAYERS; j++)
	{
		if ((botmo != svvars->Players[j].MO)
		    && (svvars->Players[j].Color == player.Color)
		    && (botmo.Health / 2 <= svvars->Players[j].MO.Health))
		{

			if (botmo.CanSee(svvars->Players[j].MO))
			{
				test = MobjDist(botmo, svvars->Players[j].MO);

				if (test < closest_dist)
				{
					closest_dist = test;
					target = svvars->Players[j].MO;
					break;
				}
			}
		}
	}

	return target;
But the game crashes with this error:
- (BotPlayer.B_SetAlly)
- TProgs::ExecuteFunction
- (PlayerTick)
- SV_RunClients
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame


Exiting due to external exception
Have I missed something there? I can't find the darned problem with it, could you please tell me if you find something wrong with it Janis? It is supposed to execute every tick for each bot to recognize a mate. Any help with it will be really appreciated, Thanks! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. EDIT: I applied the latest Vavoom changes for the CD device class and I can't compile it, here's the error I get:
Compiling...
cd_win32.cpp
D:\Korax\KArena\KA_Source\source\cd_win32.cpp(39) : error C2504: 'VWinMessageHandler' : base class undefined
D:\Korax\KArena\KA_Source\source\cd_win32.cpp(113) : error C2065: 'GCDMsgHandler' : undeclared identifier
D:\Korax\KArena\KA_Source\source\cd_win32.cpp(113) : error C2440: '=' : cannot convert from 'class VWin32CDAudioDevice *const ' to 'int'
        This conversion requires a reinterpret_cast, a C-style cast or function-style cast
Error executing cl.exe.

Vavoom95.exe - 3 error(s), 0 warning(s)
EDIT2: One last thing, the map filter seems to work marvelous <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, but I had a problem when I tried to use names like "DM_ARENA", it seems the game it's unable to build the GLBSP stuff because of the name, here's the error I get:
Dev: Spawning server DM_ARENA
Log: GB: * No output file specified. Using: karena/wad3.gwa

Log: GB: Opened PWAD file : karena/wad3.wad
Log: GB: Reading 169 dir entries at 0x30F162
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_ARENA' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_DOCKS' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_RIVER' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_CITAD' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_CODEX' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_AGIO' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_CURSE' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_LETHE' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_MALEV' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `DM_AGONY' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `CTF_RATC' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `CTF_GARG' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Bad level name `FB_STADI' in wad (too long)
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `THINGS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `LINEDEFS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SIDEDEFS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `VERTEXES' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SEGS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SSECTORS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `NODES' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SECTORS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `REJECT' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `BLOCKMAP' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `BEHAVIOR' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SCRIPTS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `THINGS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `LINEDEFS' found outside any level
Log: GB: Warning: Level lump `SIDEDEFS' found outside any level

...

- VLevel::LoadMap
- SV_LoadLevel
- SV_SpawnServer
- COMMAND Map
- Host_Frame

ERROR: Node build failed
My guess it's that the name can't be larger than 8 chars for the lump that represents the GL_MAPXX for the GLBSP stuff for each map.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:04:29

dj_jl

EDIT: I applied the latest Vavoom changes for the CD device class and I can't compile it
Forgot to commit some files. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
EDIT2: One last thing, the map filter seems to work marvelous <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, but I had a problem when I tried to use names like "DM_ARENA", it seems the game it's unable to build the GLBSP stuff because of the name... My guess it's that the name can't be larger than 8 chars for the lump that represents the GL_MAPXX for the GLBSP stuff for each map.
Yes, that's a limitation of glBSP version included in Vavoom. The new GL nodes specification addresses this issue and there should already be a version of glBSP that supports it. I'll update it ASAP.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:46:36

Firebrand

[quote="dj_jl":3vg3lxs3]Forgot to commit some files. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> No problem it always happens, lol <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. [quote="dj_jl":3vg3lxs3]Yes, that's a limitation of glBSP version included in Vavoom. The new GL nodes specification addresses this issue and there should already be a version of glBSP that supports it. I'll update it ASAP. OK, I'll check the glBSP page later and download the latest version to test it, thanks! EDIT: BTW Ramborc, could you please find for me the thread where we spoke about which monsters we wanted to include for KA? That might be the next gameplay mode I want to implement for it (once I finish the leveling system, of course).
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:38:17

RambOrc

Nothing from DOOM, it's risky enough to have imported the player character, importing textures and sprites too would make it more likely id will dislike our project and demand that everything's removed. I guess Strife is out because pretty much all foes are either humans or machines. Not sure how difficult it would be to get something out of Witchaven, not sure neither how good any of the monsters would be, but if you (or Mago) find a good one, why not. Also not sure how difficult it is to get from from ShadowCaster, you could give me feedback on that (unless the graphics look too out of place, some of the SC monsters are quite cool, like the boars and the red drakes). So what it boils down to, especially in the beginning, is standard Heretic and Hexen monsters, I'd say let's start with the gargoyle and the golem from Heretic (non-ghost, melee-only version) and the centaur from Hexen, do you think we should include ranged attack critters too? Adding ranged attack monsters too would make them IMO too much like the bots, whereas if there are only melee monsters (but to compensate for that, with much stronger attacks and tons of HP), that'd give the gameplay a different twist, at least right now for Castle Tidyup. The 3 monsters I mention differ from each other, while the golem is the typical base critter, the gargoyle can also fly and being smaller get through windows, whereas the centaur is still another category for itself by being able to not only block attacks but also revert projectiles (imagine firing a rocket at a centaur, just to see it turn around and fly into your mouth, LOL). If we go with the melee-only, you could multiply their HP and attack values from the original game by 5x. Or if you prefer having ranged attack monsters too then let's discuss it further.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:28:39

Ichor

There may be a few monsters you could use from Blood (the big gray gargoyle, spiders, and demon dogs) and Shadow Warrior (flying zombies and those ape things). You could even find a few in Diablo 2, although the different perspective of that game might present a problem.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:31:53

Firebrand

I have made some tests using the first Deathkings map for testing the bots tracking monsters ability, they are smart enough to avoid missiles from distance, but I also think that we must let some space for Critter Hunt too, so my suggestion is to use only basic monsters (and to include a few ranged monsters too), I suggest to use the 3 monsters you mention plus the 2 versions of Chaos Serpents and maybe the Affrit to have a flying ranged pest in the maps, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, and that we let all the other monsters (plus some boss thugs) for the Critter Hunt gameplay mode, how about that? As for shadowcaster enemies, we could use them too, they are basic monsters AFAIK, the two boars are melee monsters and the dragon it's a ranged enemy (i.e. just throws fireballs away, right?), I have already extracted one of the boars and it's in a wad file already somewhere in KDev (I have to clean up my mess there, lol <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> ), and if we decide to use them I say we wait until Critter Hunt is ready and just use the basic monsters for Clean the Castle.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:53:19

dj_jl

for (i = 0; i < MAXPLAYERS; i++)
   {
      if (svvars->Players.Color == player.Color)
Here's the problem. If player i is not in game, svvars->Players will be a none reference and accessing it's properties will crash. You must always check if it's not-null. The next loop in this function has the same problem.
OK, I'll check the glBSP page later and download the latest version to test it, thanks!
I checked and there isn't new version yet. So for now use shorter names.
Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:35:06

Firebrand

Thanks Janis! I'll fix it. [quote="dj_jl":27xp3xjy]I checked and there isn't new version yet. So for now use shorter names. OK, I'll use the short names then.
Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:53:43

Firebrand

[quote="dj_jl":11wglel8]I don't want to add such specific things to MAPINFO right now. Here's another idea: Create a bot spawner object that spawns a bot depending on arguments and destroys itself. And then you can use ACS to spawn this thing which will spawn a bot (it's a good idea to have some delays between spawns). How do I set it to execute the "addbot" console command? EDIT: I have found how to do it, thanks anyway <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Now there's another problem, how can I make the bot spawner to spawn just a bot or two, and to avoid it to spawn 6 bots always (if it's possible).
Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:47:53

dj_jl

With ACS you have complete control on how many bots to spawn in the level.
Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:39:34

Firebrand

Yes, I think I have figures it out, I was trying to spawn all the bots with the same object, but it would be easier to spawn a bot with only one spawner, I'll change it now and see how it works, thanks Janis.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:25:04

Firebrand

I think that maybe this weekend I'll upload a new internal beta with the latest changes, I'll work on a Clean the Castle map now to test a proper map with it. If you have any suggestions on which map I could use post them here or I'll decide it myself, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->.
Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:37:12

RambOrc

LOL I guess that'd have been clear, Citadel all the way. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:52:45

RambOrc

So, how is the new version coming along? This week once again I'd have time to test.
Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:07:18

Firebrand

Yes, everything is coming along pretty well, but I didn't had much time during the weekend to work on the clean the castle map , <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> and today won't be a good day, I think tomorrow I have some time to do it, if you want I could upload a build with everything we got so far, but I would prefer to wait until I get that map done (it's not much of a problem, just to change the map objects a bit and add the monsters to it). As for everything else, I got a bot spawner that spawns a certain number of bots using the object's parameters, I still have to make the fix Janis mentioned here, and I already found a way to make the fullscreen HUD smaller and less vision obstructing (using more virtual screen resolution), Vavoom already had that option there, but I didn't know about it, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I want to make the same with the pickup messages, but I'll do the map as my higher priority for now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:04:09

Firebrand

I might upload the new beta test later today, I want to finish the map which I got almost done and fix a little problem with it, then I'll upload everything and post a list of the main changes to the code.
Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:18:57

Firebrand

OK, uploaded the new beta test (KA_RC4), post any problems you find with it, here's a small list of the main changes to it: [list:210fjksl] - No more additional DLL's for KA <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> - Fixed a lot of problems in the bot's aiming code and checks - Fixed witchaven's arrow aiming angle problem - Fixed lightning in maps using skyboxes - Bots now try to follow team mates, which makes them look a bit more smart, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> - Added bot spawner to the game (there are some small problems that need checking yet) - I think I also fixed the problem with darkness and poison missiles hitting you if you are above 3d floors - Fixed the mage's lightning to go through the ceiling changes as the original one <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> - Fixed problem with eighth weapon not giving mana when picked up - Finished implementing Clean the Castle gameplay mode - Other small bugfixes here and there[/list:u:210fjksl]
Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:33:16

RambOrc

Hey looks real nice, I see you also cleaned up the menu some, also the higher resolution and stuff. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And I have a new name for the gameplay mode: Castle Sweep (if it's good enough, it could be the final name). Two questions: 1) How do I use the spawner? I went through the console commands but couldn't figure it out. 2) I think the bots are sometimes hitting on each other and once even on me. Is that a bug, a feature or?
Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:39:04

Firebrand

I like the name <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, the bot spawner is a placeable object in the maps (but that might change if my changes don't work), it works like this for now, you place it in the map, it accepts one argument, which is the bot number in the internal bot list, which of course, I'll upload shortly, so there won't be any problem to spawn any bot you want, it spawns the bot and destroys itself, the only problem I have is how to spawn it and give it an argument at the same time, the only solution I found for it, is to add another parameter that will be the order of spawning bots, that way, you'll be able to spawn, for examle, 3 different objects for spawning 3 different bots, they'll check their order and spawn the bots accordingly, giving a small delay between spawns to avoid problems like bots not appearing.
Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:23:24

RambOrc

Log: DISC OF REPULSION - VViewEntity::SetState - TProgs::ExecuteFunction - (PlayerTick) - SV_RunClients - SV_Ticker - ServerFrame - Host_Frame Exiting due to external exception
Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:25:19

Firebrand

Was this error produced in the Castle Sweep map? What you were exactly doing?? I'm asking because it seems a problem with a monster maybe... Also, please remember to always post a small description of what you were doing when the crash happened, that might give me a better idea of where to look at for the problem.
Sat, 01 Oct 2005 17:56:06

Firebrand

BTW, it would be nice to know if you find the monsters already balanced or not, I found them to be fair during low levels, but when you grow to a certain level (5 or something like that), they become weak and easy to kill, maybe we should look a way to make them fair in all the levels, what do you think Ramborc?
Sat, 01 Oct 2005 19:01:40

RambOrc

It felt alright to me, i.e. took about as many shots to kill as they'd have in the original games. As to the higher levels, I don't think there's much need of balancing that out, in a Castle Sweep map leveling up doesn't play much of a role since you die all the time (if not, then we'll have to up monster strength after all, haven't tested things that far yet) and thus lose EXP nearly as fast as you gain it. One thing though, it seems items aren't respawning, maybe you did it on purpose but that's the exact thing that was IMO basically flawed in D/H/H coop, you collected a bunch of stuff, then died and it all got lost and slowly the map became empty of goodies and it took impossibly long and was very boring to kill bosses (or lots of monsters in a map) on higher levels. I think in all game modes such basic things should remain the same in KA, it's a deathmatch-based game all the way.
Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:12:31

Firebrand

It wasn't really intentional, I based the startup on a coop game, so that explains why the item respawn is off, I'll turn it on for this gameplay mode, I really forgot about that when implementing it, heh! I have been testing with most of the classes and I also think it works really well, the only thing that bothered me was the fact that as in KMod, when you reach a certain level, some weapons doesn't need any mana at all, I'll fix that too in every gameplay mode. I also discovered a bug just before uploading this test that made the mana count get negative values on lower levels, which was really odd too. Another funny comment I have is that I find a bit odd to kill centaurs and gargoyles with a shotgun and chaingun, LOL. Really funny game mode <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 02 Oct 2005 02:14:58

RambOrc

The zero mana usage is easily fixed, all you need to do is either to round up all values to the next integer, or check whether it's lower than 1 and if yes make it 1. It could've been easily done in KMOD too but there it was a feature, not a bug. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:20:24

Firebrand

Yes, when I post that last reply I was already looking for the problems, it's one of those small things that yuo don't think on until they happen in the game, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:53:28

Firebrand

I uploaded another KA patch for this new version (RC5), and the karena.wcf file for WadAuthor, be aware that vavoom has some problems with MIDI file events and sometimes it crashes with a MMSystem error.
Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:46:23

Firebrand

Janis, I have a question regarding the frag count system in Vavoom, I found that there's a score_t structure, but I can't access it from the status bar, is there a way to have access to the kill count in the map? I have done something like this:
	SB_DrawNumber92(45, 5, scores.killcount, 0); 
But it doesn't seems to work, do you have any suggestions for doing this? Thanks in advance!
Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:54:46

dj_jl

score_t is only for intermission. In statusbar to get frag count use cl->Frags.
Fri, 07 Oct 2005 20:12:04

Firebrand

But how to know if a certain player belongs to a team?? it would be cool to show both you team frag count and your personal frag count in team DM, I also want to add a kill counter for castle sweep, I have been investigating in the source, I discovered that there's a player.killcount somewhere, but it's not accessible from the status bar code...
Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:54:42

dj_jl

In the beginning of Player class there are fields that are sent to client for statusbar. In hexendef.vc there's addfields client_state_t where you must add exactly the same fields. Abowe there's a define of KORAX_STATS that defines number of fields added for Korax Arena (BTW currently it's wrong). So add fields for team frags and kill counter, calculate them on server and show in statusbar.
Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:46:43

Firebrand

I have been working on the KA code a lot, fixed some problems and added more stuff like the temporal invulnerability for respawning in deathmatch, I hope to upload a new beta test soon, because I'll surely will be busy the next weeks with college (exams week, as always, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->).
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:01:18

Col.J.P.

I wonder why RambOrc made this topic: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1546">http://www.korax-heritage.com/forums/vi ... php?t=1546</a><!-- m --> <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:57:07

RambOrc

Because I do that now and then, since all the sheep here would always post into the same first topic since day 1 if I wouldn't have opened a new thread now and then... <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Seriously, when a thread on one topic gets very long, sometimes I start a new one so it's easier to find and manage things. For example, this long thread is not the first and not even the second thread on KA internal testing.
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:26:28

Firebrand

It's a suprise to see another thread added by Ramborc, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->. I got a new test build I want to upload, it still has a small issue I need to fix, once that's done, I'll upload it to KDev.
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 16:07:48

Col.J.P.

[quote="Firebrand":2wrzy1bf]It's a suprise to see another thread added by Ramborc, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->. I got a new test build I want to upload, it still has a small issue I need to fix, once that's done, I'll upload it to KDev. Let me know when you're done, ok?
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:18:21

Firebrand

Yes, I'll post here when the new test build is uploaded, also, I got your mail, I also got what the problem is with the skyboxes, thanks! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Fri, 04 Nov 2005 17:25:47

Col.J.P.

That is not exactly a problem, just a design issue. Can you make those clouds flat or round as in the original Hexen/Heretic sky? The best thing to do is passing clouds like in Unreal/Quake skies, which can be made with a cubic form, I guess.
Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:36:46

Firebrand

I got you some bad news <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, it seems my computer's fan it's failing, I made a quick backup of everything to a portable HD device, so there's not much of a problem, but being it the most powerfull PC I have here, it'll make it difficult for me to work as hard on KA, there's not much more to do codewise, every gameplay mode that we want to include in V1.0 are done, the only big thing I want to add it's a scoreboard, but I think it will have to wait a bit more, I'll try to upload the new build tomorrow and start looking a new power source for my computer too <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->. That's it for today.
Sun, 06 Nov 2005 20:52:40

Moose

Holy moly, I'm away for a few days and the Colonel gets invited into teh Dev Forums, I am missing some important things. Nice to see you around, oh and I warn ye all, I'm about to start a big ranty thread.
Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:30:28

Col.J.P.

[quote="Moose":ynsxb7u5]Holy moly, I'm away for a few days and the Colonel gets invited into teh Dev Forums, I am missing some important things. Nice to see you around, oh and I warn ye all, I'm about to start a big ranty thread. We have unfinished business, don't we Moose? I want your soul Moose and I'm going to get it, one way or another...
Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:30:06

Moose

Do you still also wish for a virgin, and if so what order do you want these 2 things in, soul -> virgin or virgin -> soul? It's good to see out conversations are still as odd as always.
Mon, 07 Nov 2005 00:17:55

Col.J.P.

[quote="Moose":xm42uk59]Do you still also wish for a virgin, and if so what order do you want these 2 things in, soul -> virgin or virgin -> soul? It's good to see out conversations are still as odd as always. I cannot ask what you're unable to deliver, so lets forget the virgin (I'll get her elsewhere, already got a couple of ideas about it) Now about your soul... You made a pact...remember? Immortality... Faust... (google it!) <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> TIAMAT RULES!
Mon, 07 Nov 2005 02:15:20

Firebrand

<!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> Uuhhh... yeah! <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Back on topic, heh! I got my computer fixed, it was a big bunch of dust and other nasty things that were jamming my computer's fan I think I have to clean it more ofthen <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> . I think I'll have that new test build up on KDev for tomorrow morning <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:34:02

Col.J.P.

Yeah, Moose is a fine lad but he has a few kicks like the desire for something more than a short life... nevermind, let me know when you got the new version online, ok? gonna try the netcode during this week, let you guys know about it in time. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:24:19

Firebrand

The new test build is up on KDev (dir "arena"), there's also a new version of the KArena.wcf file for WadAuthor.
Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:04:26

Col.J.P.

Ok I got it, thanx. Back in a couple of days with some results. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Wed, 09 Nov 2005 23:35:01

Moose

I seem to be having a few problems getting a client to connect to a server I started, and as just I couldn't test out the networking. I'm going to see if I can resolve this problem I'll post back after I have tried.
Wed, 09 Nov 2005 23:42:04

RambOrc

Just as a reminder people, testing network functionality is at the bottom of the priority list, what KA 1.0 has to have is as perfect a bot support as possible. I've played UT for years with bots and never really used network because the bots were good enough.
Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:51:21

Moose

But I like UT with bots over my LAN, me and a few friends fragging away, beer in hand <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> , although that does also have bots.
Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:30:56

RambOrc

Let's say it another way, what's more important in UT Q3A etc, bots or network capabilities? As far as I care, the first is way more important, because there can be many reasons why you can't enjoy a game without bots even if its netcode is perfect: bad connections, overloaded servers, no place on the servers you want to play on, nobody on the servers you wanted to play on, your time zone is such that at the times you can play online nobody else is, etc etc. I'd have never gotten much fun out of UT without bots, indeed I played it very little online (maybe an hour or two total), and not that much more over LAN (and never with more than 2-3 other peeps, meaning 3 or 4 total players without bots). I don't say that netcode is not important, indeed the more human-related or coop-like game modes won't be much good without it (Summon Contest for example), but without bots the game is dead meat, so that's the highest priority and not netcode IMO.
Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:03:43

Firebrand

Janis, I got a question for you, I have been checking how the actual scoreboard works in Hexen, but it's not what I want for KA's scoreboard, I want the scoreboard to display the player's name instead of the color, the number of frags, deaths, maybe the bot skill if the player it's a bot, and maybe an icon or something reflecting the player's color, but I don't know if it's possible to print the name somehow, also, I don't find a way to bind a key so it can show the scoreboard during the game, do you have any ideas on how this could be done?
Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:19:49

dj_jl

You can get player names from userinfo in scores array (use Info_ValueForKey). Number of deaths can be gotten as summ of frags against that player. You can bind a key by making it set a console variable, check out how Strife does this. Userinfo should be updated during game, but for frags you'll need a custom message that updates frag stats when changed.
Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:37:23

RambOrc

Sum of frags against a player don't include "suicide", like falling into a pool of lava and not exiting fast enough, or?
Sat, 17 Dec 2005 02:03:37

Firebrand

I think the summ of frags should be updated every time a new kill is increased or decreased, as the summ will be of all the frags from all the players currently in the game, I think I got a good idea of how it could be done, thanks Janis! I have already fixed some small problems regarding how the bot skills are calculated depending the game skill, and added iced death states for the Heretic enemies, I'm currently working out that the eighth weapons didn't gave any mana when picked up and then get the scoreboard done, maybe try to make the bots able to kick the ball in football mode and defend/attack the opposite team (which is something I'm thinking how to implement already).
Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:45:42

RambOrc

Hey if bots could play soccer that'd be really great. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:10:19

dj_jl

[quote="RambOrc":1qf1auzl]Sum of frags against a player don't include "suicide", like falling into a pool of lava and not exiting fast enough, or? It does - it's frags against himself.
Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:53:12

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":1fkw1zjh]Hey if bots could play soccer that'd be really great. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> It can be done, the only thing I find difficult to implement it's "offense" and "defense" states for them, but it has to be implemented anyway for CTF and other team modes anyway <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:40:26

Firebrand

My progress with this has been really good, the bots seem to already get the offense and defense states, all is left to do it's they chase the ball and kick it, maybe make a goal defender too, but that might not be in this version, do you think we should make a release if everything goes fine Ramborc??
Tue, 03 Jan 2006 23:11:27

RambOrc

Sounds cool. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> As to when to release KA officially and what exactly is to be included in it is mostly your decision as I can't test anything right now. Back when I last tested KA, it had one big visible problem, bots getting stuck everywhere all the time, except for that only a couple of things that would be nice to be included but aren't imperative (like a score counter for Castle Sweep). Oh yes, one thing IMO should definitely been in the release, in Castle Sweep things should work like in coop/SP, i.e. you have to find the keys and throw the switches in order to proceed to the map, whereas in DM all switches should be activated at once (in the converted Heretic maps, you can't enter some areas of the maps before one of the players pushes the required buttons).
Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:33:43

Firebrand

Yes, I'll make the necessary changes for DM maps once I start revamping the maps (once the source code is ready), the counter for Castle Sweep works, the only thing I haven't seen is that team castle sweep doesn't works like Cooperative gameplay (since you have all the keys), but I'll change it ASAP, also I have made another Castle Sweep map, when I revamp the maps I'll also add the new powerups where I think they fit well too. I think that the release could be made at the end of this month if I'm fast revamping the maps <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

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