Well here is the first public beta of our not yet announced new project, Korax Arena... please don't talk to anyone outside of these forums about the beta test or about this project at all, thanks. Any questions/feedback, please post it into this topic. Here is how you install it: 1) Download the latest 1.15.2 version of Vavoom from <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/vavoom/v115_2_win.zip?download">http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/vavo ... p?download</a><!-- m --> and install it 2) Copy a ver 1.1 hexen.wad into the root dir of your Vavoom install 3) Download <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/korax_arena_01_beta.zip">http://www.korax-heritage.com/korax_arena_01_beta.zip</a><!-- m --> and extract it into the root dir of your Vavoom install 4) Take a look at vlaunch.jpg and set your vlaunch accordingly The first time you start up, Vavoom will build GL nodes and vis data which should take some time. A quick rundown on how you play: - Start up Vavoom with the configured vlaunch - go to the multiplayer settings and set your player name and character class - start a multiplayer game (or join one if you are in a LAN with a buddy who started one already) - pick any map That's it... you can either play with buddies or against bots. You can summon bots with the following command: addbot botXY Where X is the code for the class (f for fighter, c for cleric, m for mage, h for heretic) and Y is the color (1-8). Regarding ammo and weapons: Each character class has 10 weapons, assigned to the keys 1-0. You start out with weapons #1 and #2, the latter including some ammo, and the possibility to use #9 and #10 as soon as you pick up some ammo for them. 1: melee weaon, uses no mana 2 & 5: uses blue mana 3 & 6: uses green mana 4 & 7: uses red mana 8: uses blue, green and red mana (ultimate weapon) 9: works like the Discs of Repulsion, uses yellow mana (you pick up Discs to stock up on yellow mana) 0: works like the Flechette, uses purple mana (you pick up Flechettes to stock up on purple mana) Experience and Levels When killing a foe, you get experience, and after a time you level up. Higher levels automatically increase your stats, i.e. you'll become faster, your weapons will cause more damage, you'll need less ammo to fire a shot etc. Also, some weapons need a certain level before you can pick them up and use them. Items Besides weapons and ammo, you can pick up some items that are activated automatically once you pick them up: - health vial: gives you 10 HP - quartz flask: gives you 25 HP - mystic urn: gives you 100 HP - krater of might: gives you 50 mana of each color - boots of speed: increases your speed for a short time - icon of the defender: makes you invulnerable for a short time - different types of armor: increase your armor class (soon to be armor points, DOOM/Heretic style; most probably in 0.2) If playing in maps not made for KA, you will find other items lying around too, but you can't pick them up nor use them.

If you wanted this project to remain secret, shouldn't this thread have been in the Developer Forum?

Well it's not THAT secret, I just thought not to talk about a mod this time for years before actually releasing something, and I want to make the announcement and the official pages only once the 0.1 final release is out (sending the news to Doomworld and RavenGames). BTW I've playtested KA myself with bots earlier this week and on LAN today and I sure it's my baby but I quite like the gameplay and the feeling even in this early stage. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Interesting, I might give it a go <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

I just edited the post to add some more info I forgot to mention (the chapter about items).

Found following bugs with the Heretic character: - weapon #5 uses red instead of blue mana - weapon #8 doesn't seem to do any damage Also, while playing SP I found following problem: whenever I change map, my EXP is halved, which makes it nearly impossible to go from level 4 to level 5. OTOH once I could, my EXP stayed at the 10'000 + something, is that normal?

I tried your jobby, it completely freezes when I hit the mage's staff on the wall :O and I couldn't task manager or anything. Happens every attempt. Tried switching everything on the sound system on and off and that solved nuh-zing. Teh specs: AMD Tbird 1GHz 512mb ram GeForce2 GTS 64mb Sound Blaster Live 5.1 a big hard drive that shouldn't matter Windows ME (More Evil!) DirectX 9 Software 320x200x8 (I don't care if it ain't hardware accellerated, it actually runs slower in OpenGL really and flickers in that, Hrmmm) By the way what's a good level for fast-paced action to try with bots? I find Gibbet and Winnowing Hall too slow, and whats the noexit cvar for vavoom :O (I have never really played vavoom before, i'm a legacy guy, also .dat files? I take it Vavoom is qc powered, makes me interested to do a heretic vavoom mod now)

Sacred Grove Seven Portals Brackenwood Vivarium Chantry Nave

You mean the wooden staff of the Mage in slot #1, right? I tried to break a stained glass window with it and it froze for me too (I just have Win2K and so I could kill the Vavoom process with a couple of key strokes and not having to restart the OS itself <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->).

Ah yes. Having to hit walls in boredom, then consequentially having your computer froze from it really discomforts me having to hit reset on my comp. It freezes completely in software, i just tried in OpenGL, you could terminate task. w00t bug found <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Just for you, I tried it in software mode too now and in Win2K it's the same as with OpenGL, it freezes but you can shoot it down in the task manager.

I don't have an uber-task manager <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> Still it's a bug needing fixing noneoftheless, i wonder if it affects all players in the game to crash :O

I've finally got to testing it.. Its great! I really like the experience points! And I know this is a multiplayer only project but I had to try it in single player ('cause I had nothing better to do, and didn't feel like Deathmatching) and I have to admit, it kinda is like Playing Korax Mod, without spells (Meaning the Experience part is alot like KMod.) So I have to admit it is really great.. But... I do have 1 (Yeah right) question, May I have the code for this? I would like to see how you did the Experience points and added the Heretic Class... And would it be possible you guys could make it possible to play existing Monsters (I.E Heresiarch, Death Wyvern, Caos Serpent, etc)?

[quote="Stryker":33ws59f0]And would it be possible you guys could make it possible to play existing Monsters (I.E Heresiarch, Death Wyvern, Caos Serpent, etc)? What about the Afrit? If so, then i'm all up for it <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Playing Korax Arena is as of now possible to play in SP (it might not be later on), but it's very unbalanced IMO. If you don't have buddies to play with over LAN or internet (or your connection is slow) and the bots are too tough for you, then playing in SP against the monsters is actually a nice touch I guess (though it was never intended). Later on it won't be possible though I think as monster code will be fundamentally changed (there will be some monsters in later Korax Arena releases, as part of some of the revolutionary gameplay modes).

[quote="RambOrc":1dqyw81z](there will be some monsters in later Korax Arena releases, as part of some of the revolutionary gameplay modes). Anything like a team tackling a large AT-AT? Oh wai-

Even cooler things - but if you want to goad more info out of me, just give up. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

Hmm very well then. /me shakes twig at RambOrc in a threatening manner

(shrugs) <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

You'll be able to play a Heresiarch right?

very interesting. though i only played for afew minutes it's very good. However, i have a Intel 2.5Ghz machine with a ATI Radeon 9800 and i was getting a VERY poor frame rate. Unless Vavoom hates ATI cards, or it was some small coding error that was over-looked, you have to find it and kill it quickly, because if you're getting 10 frames per second it can be difficult to say wether the game froze from a serious bug in the game or the frame rate dropped to 0.001 <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->

No, Vavoom doesn't hate ATI cards. Actually the first step in increasing performance is to build full VIS data with glVIS utility.

The public release of KA 0.1 will come with all-new maps and they will have full vis data included. As for ATI cards, I'm not sure what your prob is, Camper has one of the latest ATI cards too (don't ask me about the modell number) and it works fine. I've playing Vavoom lately on a GeForce 3 and a Matrox Millennium P650 and both are just fine (the P650 has some visual errors in OpenGL, but I think that's the Matrox drivers and not Vavoom). You could try the different modes (i.e. if you've got this prob in OGL try D3D).

Yeah, I've noticed it's VERY jerky here as well (same specs), even Software mode is quite slow... And yes I did sit through all those noding/vising too :O Turning off extra sampling does help a bit though.

That's strange, your card is supposed to be much faster than mine and it's still me who gets the normal framerates at 1024x768x32 in both OGL and D3D. <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

Maybe Vavoom has a passion to hate Win98/ME :O or DirectX9.... Odd, zdaemon is going slower nowadays for me as well...

Well I have Win98SE and DirextX9.0b and Vavoom runs fine for me, well it has it's moments. Playing over a LAN isn't an overly fun experience, the clients get very low FPS, Although it did enable me to get lots of cheep frags.

Same for me, I have been testing it with my brother trough a LAN and it runs slow for him, but on the computer I'm playing it runs fine, also it has some strange stuff, my brother's computer had 3d sound ON and mine has it OFF and it refuses to run (I will post more info on this later) also sometimes it gave an error when starting the maps.

Yeah, changing maps after a 5th time or so crashes with this: Error Floating Point Exception Stack trace: VDefaultSoundDevice: Tick <- S_UpdateSounds <- Host_Frame And when OpenAL is used Error Floating Point Exception Stack trace: VOpenALDevice:: Tick <- S_UpdateSounds <- Host_Frame And by turning the 3d sound OFF and after changing maps enough, but more than 5 times Error Floating Point Exception Stack trace: CL_TraceLine -< CalcPoints <- SingleLightFace <- R_LightFace <- InitSurfs <- CreateSecSurface <- R_PreRender <- CL_SignonReply <- CL_ParseServerMessage <- CL_ReadFromServer <- Host_Frame Winnowing hall works okay but Vivarium has a slow framerate O_O! I'd blame the dynamic lighting system, but even with that off it's slow. Hrmm....

In my experience, turning 3D sound off is necessary to run a LAN game at all. Also, in some cases lag was BIG - we're not yet sure when it exactly occurs and when not (in some cases, it was all fine).

Maybe it's Vavoom itself? We could tip those guys this thread. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I mean Vavoom states it requires a pentium comp at the least, and if it chugs on my tbird, then something is horribly wrong there. O_O EDIT: Just realized that vavoom's coder is here <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

Maybe Vavoom has a passion to hate Win98/ME :O or DirectX9....

It was developed on Win98. Talking about LAN games, it's strange that there's problems with 3D sound, since it should have no effect on it. Anyways the networking needs a lots of improvements. Too bad I can't do it now. As of performance, I'm also having some problems, especially when enabling the bots.

Do you have an estimate when you would be able to work on the netcode?

I hope soon I will be able to get back to normal development of Vavoom.

Oh yes BTW people a new beta test will be out soon. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Good! Would you have fixed the problem with the Experience? When you goto another level it gets halved.

Yep, been taken care of. Now if you go to another map your EXP gets down to the point it started off when you leveled up the last time.

It will have some other cool stuff too! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> (But don't ask what it will be please) <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Does it crash/freeze or is that still confidential? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Okay.. But there is one problem, I've been recently trying to play Deathkings with KA but its impossible to. Why? Because you don't have the option of picking up anything so you can't solve the Flame Mask/Planets/other Puzzles that require stuff like that. So I guess back to Botmatching. I've also done many Deahmatches with bots on Deathkings Levels (one called Deathfog) and its great! I love the mage and Fighter for Deathmatches.

Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to be a SP mod, especially if it has the word Arena in it's name <!-- s:o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_surprised.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /><!-- s:o -->

The MOD is only for multiplayer gaming, and the crashes and frezees are all detected now! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Good, so hitting a wall shouldn't end my game then. What about the slowee ness? Mmm, frezees...... i prefer dem cherry ones

[color=red:2j59b3s0]Look at what I missed while I was away... <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> I want KA!! <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> (Must...control..Heresiarch...must...kill...mods.....) <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> [/color:2j59b3s0]

Hey I'm back from my vacation, next public beta will be released soon. Truth to be told, I thought Camper will make the public release while I'm gone, next time I see him I'll ask what's up...

Spend millions of dollars on it, and don't hesitate to make a delay till 2005, it would make us knock our socks off even more j/k <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

[quote="RambOrc":19t8s3vn]Hey I'm back from my vacation, next public beta will be released soon. Truth to be told, I thought Camper will make the public release while I'm gone, next time I see him I'll ask what's up... Eeeeeeeexcellent.heeheeheeehee. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

OK here is the new beta: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/korax_arena_beta2.zip">http://www.korax-heritage.com/korax_arena_beta2.zip</a><!-- m --> As before, please don't tout out into the world the existence of this project, public announcement is targeted for mid-May, along with the first official release.

Test now you fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

Be [color=red:2aawc69b]good[/color:2aawc69b] Camper <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Brb with some feeback. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

[quote="Camper":2xvwv3fb]Test now you fuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GEE BE PANTIENT! I gotta reinstlal hexen (aka putting in the hexen.wad in the hexen folder)

I can't start a game....keeps crashing with resolution errors,.I change them..still...then a Visual Basic error..grr.. All is lost now..the one REASON for me joining these forums was for KA!!! Just to smack Ramb0rc around online. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> bah..I'll mess with it again later after I update things... >_> But, for future posts.. "THE MOD RULES!" lol <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I've gotten to testing it and I really do like it, this time I did a botmatch, not SP. I like playing the Marine alot (Probably because I really like Doom also) Its all together a Great Multiplayer Modification. Though from the news I came to the Conclusion that future Offical Releases will include New Levels is that true? And are there ever gonna be any Spells in it?

[quote="Evil Mage":1pct6s3v]I can't start a game....keeps crashing with resolution errors,.I change them..still...then a Visual Basic error..grr.. All is lost now..the one REASON for me joining these forums was for KA!!! Just to smack Ramb0rc around online. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> bah..I'll mess with it again later after I update things... >_> But, for future posts.. "THE MOD RULES!" lol <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Well it works just fine here. Are you using the most recent version of Vavoom?

First official release will include KA-optimized maps for deathmatch and other gametypes, currently it looks like about half a dozen maps. As for spells, there already are some in the game (like Horrible Pain for the Mage, Healing for the Cleric), they are assigned to a weapon slot and use ammo like any other weapon.

[quote="Stryker":39baee49]Though from the news I came to the Conclusion that future Offical Releases will include New Levels is that true? Yes, it's true. In the first release you'll find a few "total vavoom" maps <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

excellent new version! i played both the marine and heretic, which are both rather well done. all the weapons of the original games that had the characters. however, the mod seems to crash at random times. Once, when i was about to enter the nearest door from the starting map (single-player) as a heretic, and once as i was a marine firing a super-shotgun. The framerate thing has been fixed, but when i entered the first hub (single player) it lagged somewhat on my 2.3 GHZ ATI Radeon 9800. <!-- s:x --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mad.gif" alt=":x" title="Mad" /><!-- s:x --> nevertheless, it was a fun trial run. i might post back here once i've tested it substantially. a suggestion: perhaps make anything from heretic/hexen/doom as a playable character? Perhaps a similar effect as the possession spell the mage has in KMOD. It'd be really nice to walk around as a green dragon (later changning into a brown dragon) or to attack something as a zombie chaingun marine, or even a imp! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

Things like this are the area of Scattered Evil. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Indeed, sorry to disappoint you peeps, but already the first official KA release might have SP disabled. So enjoy it while it lasts, in these pre-release betas. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

[quote="Maveric":1uhdkkcn]The framerate thing has been fixed, Oh really? I'll have to try this tonight then. (not today because it's hot, and tbirds hate the hot, so keep your pants on. For real.)

You keep your pants on, and Cheapy tests! No, whipping me wouldn't work. Anyhoo, the stuff I have to say about it: - You know that "hit staff on wall and you crash vavoom" bug? Well it still occurs, but only with 3D sound disabled. I myself prefer 3d sound disabled, as I use a sblive 5.1, and a pair of headphones connected on the rear speakers jack, letting me only hear half the sounds i'm supposed to hear. Ah well. Here is the error message, by the way: [img:3el7ynj6]http://cheapy.fragfiles.org/holycrapihitawall.jpg[/img:3el7ynj6] - It is indeed playable now (Especially Winnowing Hall) but Vivarium is still slow as hell. My 1ghz shouldn't run 15fps, I find that vewwy peculiar still. - And eventually, all sprites drawn on screen will flicker into invisibility after a 8 minute match or something like that - And soon crash. I've recalled the crash said something about dynamic lighting, probably ran out of buffer for another, and decided to vomit me out. - As it's an "Arena" mod, I can't really identify the bots or anything. I wanna know them as Bert rather than something totally anonymous. Hrm. - Also because it's an "Arena" mod, centerprint messages of "You have killed Blah \n First place with 16 frags" would be nice. I've done this in Quake before <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> - Dont' forget the whole double/multi/ultra/monster kill thingy. - Rampages and killing sprees too. - Most of the time, I was playing as Marine. A spacemarine feels out of place in Hexen, unless you want to shoot for something like Generations Q3A (crossovers of past id heroes). Maybe something Ash-like. - And because I was playing as the marine, i had alotta fun chainsawing the bots <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> - I prefer the ROTT guy (referring to Taradino Cassat, Doug Wendt and Ian Paul Freeley) over the marine though, rott was an awesome game. Hey wait a min i'm sidetracking- - Oh, and I can't hear any deaths from the bots, just from myself. Probably that 3d sound thing... - One last thing, I've exited a level and it crashed. Since i'm not on my main comp but the laptop rather, i'll post the error tomorrow. Remember that I have to use OpenGL, Direct3D can't seem to set resolution (I play at 1152x864x32 on a Geforce2gts 64mb, fyi) [img:3el7ynj6]http://cheapy.fragfiles.org/endlevelcrash.jpg[/img:3el7ynj6] I also did play Korax Mod, but i've only spent 30 min on it. I'll tell you all about that elsewhere and later. EDIT: added a couple crash shots, NO NOT HER

Beta testing gonna continue again?

OK here is the next beta version of KA... it still doesn't include everything we've got ATM, but should be some more than the previous beta. This time no MP3 files included, if you want them too just post here and I'll upload them. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/korax/arena/ka_july7.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/korax/arena/ka_july7.zip</a><!-- m -->

Holy crap it's been since may? <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> My comp's cool (liek 107F liek!!!!11); i'll give it a whirl soon. EDIT: And holy crap, i'm making a map. EDIT EDIT: And holy holy holy, holy crap [/strongbad] I've sent it to Ramborc.

1. You can just swim between wooden pillars on Docks map. It takes a little time to find right spot, several seconds or so. 2.I think one change would benefit this map a lot: direct passage from boots of speed to not-so-secret ?balcony. Not so secret because you can spawn there in multiplayer. 3. Jump onto a wall and hold down forward key. If done right (not hard to do). Now you slowly slide down the wall. Can be used in killer hexen pits, you descend to the bottom with absolutely no harm. This bug has to be nailed quickly, or it'll limit Vavoom map making potential.

My first minute diving into Korax Arena jul7 build, and I'd want to bring this to attention asap - In GL (I haven't tried Direct3d yet) it appears that the water is a little too clear. (nVidia Geforce2gts) [img:qevk4wcy]http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/looknowater.jpg[/img:qevk4wcy] Oh by the way, the transparent water functions fine in The Citadel (just tried it right now, damn that windowed mode is handy!) - The framerate is nice as you can see in the shot. I really really love this now. At least in the hmaps.wad, anyeay. - The centerprinting messages such as "You can't use the rocket launcher" stick on the screen for waaaaaaaay too long. - Codex (which is in fact my 2nd favorite UT level (first being Deck16][ )) doesn't have the "Pretty fly... for a white guy!" easter egg. Just kidding <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> But hey you could stick something similar instead <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> (Just shoot one of the lights in the "upper center' and return to the (now opened) wall with wood holdingup around... The following pics should demonstrate it <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex1.jpg">http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex1.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex2.jpg">http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex2.jpg</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex3.jpg">http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/utcodex3.jpg</a><!-- m --> - The music for Codex (in UT anyway) is Mission Landing, which I have a MIDI of! Incase you want it, here it is <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/Mission.mid">http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/Mission.mid</a><!-- m --> And ash much ash I love the level, it's unfortunately slow, around 18fps-oish. - AR is nice, runs around 30fps here <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> - Finding myself losing total control of my movement for a few seconds when going across a wall/ledge in the water is a bit irritating. Experienced this in the middle water pit in AR.wad and on the docks - I gave my map a try and it went crashy, coulnd't allocate around 600,000,000 bytes (Something obviously screwed here, vavoom hexen would never demand half a gig for memory)

I just got around to playing this Beta on Korax Arena...and.. WOW!! I LOVE IT!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I LOVE using the doom marine in Hexen maps !!!!! SOoooooooo FUN!! And i love the rpg elements of building your point status in order to use other weapons. That is really good!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Remember when I said waaaaaaaaaaay back "I am gonna love Korax Arena...me want it now!!!!" ? I love this mod more then KMOD NOW! lolol <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> It's soooo fun!!And the elf from Heretic is in it right? I haven't played Heretic yet, it's order already and on it's way! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Excellent job guys!!! I think this KA mod is gonna be at the top next to KMOD <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Can't wait for the next release. ANd yes I know this was a beta, - I cant use artifacts - boots of speeds seem to last forever, they never run out. (was using Doom Marine in a DM with monsters setting) - after the first map, all the monsters seem to blink in and out of exsistence. hmm. Could be my video settings, a bug or who knows.! - Fighters hammer projectiles don't move, they sit in midair spinning - Would be nice to use the axe without mana when it runs out or toggle by hitting the number again to use with or without mana. You guys should combine this MA mod with Ichor's weapons from his Mod.! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> The more the better I say!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> This mod is looooads of fun. Is it playable by IP yet? If anyone has tried the lag...?

Its not supposed to be played with Monsters on.. Its a MULTIPLAYER ONLY Mod

True dat, it ain't called Korax Arena for nothing. 9 big grins in one post? That's overkill!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Does Vavoom's multiplayer really work?

[quote="Stryker":1rrrp9yf]Its not supposed to be played with Monsters on.. Its a MULTIPLAYER ONLY Mod I know!!! but I still need something to kill with all the juicy upgrades!!! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

OK I'll try to react to some of the feedback. First of all, thanks for providing it. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> B0rsuk 1. Strange, most probably applies to the original map too (anyone tried that?). I don't see it as a real problem anyway. 2. I'm not sure what balcony you're talking about? 3. Hey this sliding down is a cool feature actually, tried it myself. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> And it shouldn't pose much of a prob, we don't have this kind of a death pit in any of our KA maps and the game is not to be played with the original Hexen maps anyway. You might be able to start them up right now but in the public release they won't work any more, we already have 7 custom DM maps for KA, by the time of the official release it might be even more, eliminating the need for any non-optimized maps. Cheapy 1. I noticed that visual error in the Docks myself, only in OpenGL and only in that pool. No idea what causes this, Camper couldn't tell me neither. It might help if we'd split that water into several smaller sectors, dunno. 2. The "you can't use this or that weapon" message is staying too long IMO too, and IMO it should be placed to the same place as the normal messages (top of the screen). Camper brushed me off when I told him this, so come on bring this same request here as beta testers, maybe he'll do it then. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Evil Mage 1. There are no artifacts in KA, this is not an RPG but fast and furious action. There are only 3 kinds of items you can pick up: weapons, ammo and instant powerups. 2. Boots of Speed thingie sounds like a bug. 3. I don't know what maps you played and how you got monsters in it, but that's something that will be completely disabled by the time KA public is out. Due to current network code limitations, it'll include most probably only DM, TDM and Football. 4. That's the Night Hammer, it is a melee weapon which at the same time also creates a patch of darkness for a short time. 5. If your axe runs out of mana, you have to fall back to your Gauntlets. 6. Dunno about internet play, we played it on LAN and apart from occasional crashes it's been quite fine. Also, one cool thing, if one of the clients crash and you start up KA again and join the game going on, your character is still cached on the server and you'll get it back at the same level it was when your client crashed. p.s. anyone tried Football yet? In case you didn't figure out how it works, you edit ka.bat to include football.wad instead of hmaps.wad, start a new multiplayer game, set monsters to "on", choose the football map and bring it on. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> By walking up to the ball, looking at it and pressing the jump key, you can kick it for a short distance. The rest should be self-explanatory. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

I've checked out the Docks with the Water on, Only in Direct3D, OpenGL is horrible here.. And D3D Gives a nice framerate.. Anyways, there was absolutley NO transluceny Whatsoever, until you jump into the watter of course.

[quote="RambOrc":21bp5ohy] 3. I don't know what maps you played and how you got monsters in it, but that's something that will be completely disabled by the time KA public is out. Due to current network code limitations, it'll include most probably only DM, TDM and Football. [size=200:21bp5ohy]Nooooooooooo!!!![/size:21bp5ohy] [size=134:21bp5ohy]Well I'll keep this beta anyways, it'll give me something to shoot when there aren't ppl I can play with. I was playing on JHexen last night with my younger bro..ah the memories of my teleporting spam back on the Nintendo 64 version lol!![/size:21bp5ohy] <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Stryker: The missing translucency will be because of your 3D card. Patricia: pull down the console, and type addbot bot[CLASS][COLOR] e.g. addbot botd1 [CLASS] is f for fighter, c for cleric, m for mage, h for Heretic, d for Marine. [COLOR] is 1-8. If you've set the game at start for max 8 players, you can spawn up to 7 bots.

Actually, It doesn't bother me at all.. We'll be getting a new computer around October so It'll have a better card than a ATI Rage Pro, I hope it'll be better.. [EDIT] I couldn't help but say this, Aren't the bots quite stupid? I haven't done a DM with bots recently on Vavoom so I don't really remember.. And the Color, is that the way you would to a TDM?[/EDIT]

Ask Camper about TDM, he claims it works but he never told me how. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> As for the bots, yes they aren't very smart, but put them into an easily navigable area with lots of ammo and they'll kill you in no time... and they aren't completely stupid, in test runs we've seen at least level 2 bots, maybe even higher. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Better AI bots are planned along with the all-new netcode and a long list of revolutionary new game modes in KA 2.0 (most probably in 1996). For now, you must contend yourself with soon-to-be-released KA 1.0, I think it's already quite a unique thing, or?

Well, I haven't seen Camper on Recently, Either have I seen Mago... Wonder what Happened to them both.. Anyways, I hope the bots would be better, with a 56K Modem, that connects to 24 bps Multiplayer it pretty bad for me.. WAY TO MUCH LAG! Wish I could get a better Connection

[quote="Stryker":2nd510xi]I've checked out the Docks with the Water on, Only in Direct3D, OpenGL is horrible here.. And D3D Gives a nice framerate.. It's the opposite here. D3D in Vavoom's pretty slow on my GF2, the card rather favors OpenGL. In an engine like Vavoom, I need all the speed I can get D:

Odd on my GF2 MX400 I got good speeds on both DirectX and OpenGL in vavoom, although DirectX used to take ages to start but once I got to the menu it was fine.

Yeah, find it very odd Ramborc's and Moose's GF2MX's are severely pwning my GF2GTS 64mb..... D: Well that doesn't matter now, I'm happy, and it ain't freezing.

Huh? I don't have a GF2 MX. What I've got currently is an ATI Radeon 9700 in one comp and a GeForce 3 in the other, and up to a short time ago I had a Matrox P650 in the first (which in stuff like Q3A has half the speed of the GF3, OTOH in Unreal engine stuff it's a lot faster, comparatively). Before that, I had a Matrox G400 Max to run the Korax games (speed according to Matrox 5x slower than that of the P650, which is about right). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Oh, I thought you said you had one. I did wake up just around now, so my memory's going futzy, atm. 'xcuse that

Also the Odd thing is with my ATI 3D Rage Pro, It gives me pretty good Framerates on KMod in OGL or D3D, and Vavoom I think it may give me better framerate than in Software rendering... Also the jHexen 1.x.x.x(Not sure what version) I got up to 80+ FPS, and it wasn't on the start screen.. And it was in OpenGL Mode too! Now thats odd! Also In KMod, on a place with alot of Torches, Braizers, Candles, Whatever, it goes at about 25-30 FPS when looking straight at it all and with the Lens Flare Brightness at its Max, it goes that fast. I call all that amazing!

I get a fair framerate (40ish) in Vavoom, but what else is amazing is that I get an insane framerate here, as seen in the upper-right corner: [img:12vz09tf]http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/gargqchat.jpg[/img:12vz09tf] I <3 OpenGL I also seem to get nice framerates in Painkiller, UT2k4, etc... not to brag though. Something's up... Doomsday runs like uber on my laptop too <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> it loves d3d.

I got around that for about 5 Seconds when Playing jHexen.. That was about the only time. BTW, is that Quake your playing? It looks kinda like it, the Weapon and Console, but the Flats and the Water look different.. I have only the Shareware and haven't played it for about 1 Month or so, so I cant really tell.

It's Quake, yes, infact it's a botmatch (early version of my new mod) in my symettrical arena map (which I wish I could replicate in Hexen if I knew how to do the 3D Floors) with around 3 other bots, and it's with my custom engine, CheapHack. And yes, I did the water texture as well as the cubemap overlay code for it to imitate reflections. Sweet, no?

I normally don't say things like this (Mainly because I think rather Negatively) but it looks pretty good Cheapy. BTW, Does Quake actually Come with Bot Support?

Nope, only third party. Frikbot's best IMO because it's source is open and it's modular <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> (meaning it's easy to install it in a mod's qc code) Also fun to play and test against too!

I guess theres lots of Mods for Quake... I wish I had the Full version. I'll probably end up getting it soon.. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

[quote="CheapAlert":3ao91mbu] - Codex (which is in fact my 2nd favorite UT level (first being Deck16][ )) doesn't have the "Pretty fly... for a white guy!" easter egg. Just kidding <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> But hey you could stick something similar instead <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> (Just shoot one of the lights in the "upper center' and return to the (now opened) wall with wood holdingup around... I wanted it to be there, but unfortunately it is not possible, cause there is not enough space for it <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->. If I place to this map something more (e.g. floor/ceiling slope,3d-sector,..) Vavoom throws an exception : TSizeBuf::GetSpace:overflow ...... DJ_JL wrote to me that this shall be network limitation <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> He's not about to do something with it !!! And about Deck 16. It is one of my favorites maps and I will perhaps create the map or my friend madPaul will <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

[quote="DarkRaven":zuhaqm7q]And about Deck 16. It is one of my favorites maps and I will perhaps create the map or my friend madPaul will <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> OMG DO IT PLZ!1 :D!!!!!!! Stryker: Well, <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/mymods.html">http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/mymods.html</a><!-- m --> <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> You can also try using Open Quartz if you don't have Quake <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://openquartz.sourceforge.net">http://openquartz.sourceforge.net</a><!-- m -->

What exactly is Open Quartz Cheapy? I'm trying to download it right now.. Still, I wish I could play UT too, but I can't I have the space and all but my 3D Card is probably pretty bad for it, and my Processor speed is 366mhz (I think thats how you do it.)

Open Quartz is a free GPL content package for Quake that's enough to be a standalone game in itself. My 4D shooter project does the same thing but in a small direction (900kb!) UT runs 40fps dandy on my p2 233 w/ Banshee 16mb at full detail (Which video card is now dead, unfortunately) so I doubt it'll give you any trouble running it.

Ummm... Are you saying I may be able to Run UT on this computer?

Perhaps so... give it a try!

How can I get it? I don't have it... I just read the System Specs and dumped the Idea of trying it.. And are you sure it would [might] work with a Rage Pro card?

It could work on it with it's Direct3D driver. Don't believe the exaggerated system specs, works fine on my low-ends around here.

Cheapy, Where can I get it?

You can get the Game of the Year edition from most stores. UT's still being sold widely. If you haven't, you can always give the demo a shot, but it may have an outdated D3D renderer in it...

I'm guessing the Demo would be on the Offical Site? Or not? And I could have been reading the Recommended Specs for the thing..

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.3dgamers.com/games/unrealtourn/">http://www.3dgamers.com/games/unrealtourn/</a><!-- m --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

53MB? I guess I can try to get it... This has Bots right?

Of course it does! That's what Unreal Tournament is all about.

I wonder if thats why its called "Unreal" Tournement.. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> But you mean theres no Internet Play? Or is there?

Yeap. There's i'net and LAN play. Wow, this thread's pretty much 1-on-1 domination, I feel guilty using up bandwidth that way; got msn, or an IRC client?

Got none but I do have Doom Connector.. If you could get on quickly we can talk there..

I got that, i'm on now. Othervise, irc.gamesurge.net #firebrand or #gargoyle (more peeps) Can't play games atm though, comp too hot (I demand a rainstorm!!) (and phew, that's the end of our little spamfest, sorry about all that, carry on)

[quote="CheapAlert":2kp2maap]- The music for Codex (in UT anyway) is Mission Landing, which I have a MIDI of! Incase you want it, here it is <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/Mission.mid">http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/Mission.mid</a><!-- m --> Hey Cheapy, its Great <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Do you have [u:2kp2maap]Enigma.umx[/u:2kp2maap] (from UT) in midi ?? I need it for my new map Agio <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> By the way, guess what map is madPaul doing <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

No I don't. All I have is Foregone Destruction, Strider and that Mission Landing midi at the moment. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/mids/aintmine">http://www.fragfiles.org/~cheapy/mids/aintmine</a><!-- m --> Deck16? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->! (That uses Godown.umx iirc, and I don't have that in midi either)

Sorry to be posting this.. Again in here.. but DC Isn't working for me but, does the Demo of UT include Codex or any of those maps?

If I can remember correctly (it's been a long time since i've played the demo becuase I bought it immediately after I saw it in the stores), the UT demo includes Morpheus, Turbine, and Phobos for DM maps, and one domination and CTF map. Doom Connector's atmosphere has been turning a bit raucous, a witty "stfu fight" was in the lobby last night. Eesh.

I'll probably end up buying it once I make sure I can run the Demo. BTW I was reading the Specs for UT2004 that said you need a better processor and that stuff, I just looked at the UT Specs and it should run on my computer.

Of course you can run it. My buddy Sonikusan, uses a 400MHz G3 mac on OSX and in slower OS9 emulation, he can still run UT fine <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> As for UT2k4 and 3 I doubt you'll have much luck running that well, I've tried it on my p2 233 and k6 433 laptop, and trust me, It ain't playable at all <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

I'm gonna pick up Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition soon. I never liked the 2k series.

Yes <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> , [color=green:pfvyprei]Deck 16[/color:pfvyprei] is under construction <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Cool. Any thoughts on duplicating the space maps with low gravity? (well, I know they would be better for hexen with normal gravity) LIke Morpheus and...that other one...lol..I forget their names. 1- 3 towers in space with low gravity 2- 1 humongous tower ontop of the main base with an elevator going up and you hear "Lift One" when you push the button for the elevator, and there's a sniper rifle at the top. And powerups on opposite ends of the map. and a redeemer on a very thing platform.. anyways... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

DM-Phobos?

You people should keep one thing in mind, this is a sprite engine you talk about... go up to any high ledge either in KA or in Vavoom Hexen, and look straight down at the enemies and see how it looks... do you really want a lot of such places in the maps? Especially "enhanced" through a sniper scope? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

[quote="DarkRaven":87s61k76]Yes <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> , [color=green:87s61k76]Deck 16[/color:87s61k76] is under construction <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> AWESOME If you get it finished i'll love you eternally for this <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

It will be nice to see more "remakes" of UT maps for KA. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

[quote="Firebrand":3mopg2g7]It will be nice to see more "remakes" of UT maps for KA. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> DM-Agony from madPaul is already done <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> There is left only minor improvements. Upload will be in a seweral days, I hope <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Excellent. Hopefully we'll have the *best* levels of these popular games <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> next we should have cs's de_dust (har har, j/k) and dwango5 map01 (really j/k'ing on that one) Maybe i'll make DM-Stalwart (with an XL version on map02). Seems easy since there's not much 3d floorage... (making 3d floors, in doom builder, even in build, just daunts me) and has crates galore, perfect for the uncreative person like me. In map design, at least. Can't spell creative without crate. YOU ALL ROCK!

[quote="CheapAlert":vm8c4dik]Maybe i'll make DM-Stalwart <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> LOL <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I made DM-Stalwart long ago, but its Heretic version. And in this time I'm remaking to Vavoom-hexen. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> [quote="CheapAlert":vm8c4dik]there's not much 3d floorage... Yep, there is really not much 3d floors <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Awesome. Now what am I gonna make....hmrmrm....... Cybrosis? Grinder maybe.

DM-Grinder is much better <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

<!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: --> Or rather DM-[color=red:1kb7j861]Malevolence[/color:1kb7j861] <!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: -->

Nah, I like Grinder. I don't like the Bonuspack maps as much <!-- s:o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_surprised.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /><!-- s:o -->

[quote="RambOrc":2pnh3bc6]You people should keep one thing in mind, this is a sprite engine you talk about... go up to any high ledge either in KA or in Vavoom Hexen, and look straight down at the enemies and see how it looks... do you really want a lot of such places in the maps? Especially "enhanced" through a sniper scope? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> YESH!!, YESH I DO!!!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Mmmm, cardboard people and animated cardboard fires

Thats probably why theres MD2 Support. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> At least its not like the Doomsday engines.. IMO It looks alot more odd in there than in Vavoom.

No MD2 planned for KA (except for a couple of scenery objects maybe).

[quote="Stryker":232xfupc]Thats probably why theres MD2 Support. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> At least its not like the Doomsday engines.. IMO It looks alot more odd in there than in Vavoom. True, plus they don't have 3d floors and other nifty editing features <!-- s:| --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_neutral.gif" alt=":|" title="Neutral" /><!-- s:| --> Makes no sense, if you're trying to make next-generation Doom engines in GFX, at least make it up on-par with the other engines in functionality!

[quote="RambOrc":8xl7m4k8]No MD2 planned for KA (except for a couple of scenery objects maybe). Well, If there was MD2 Planned for it, Who would do it? There aren't many Hexen MD2 Models, for scenerey that I know of at least. And nobody is really working on any Models for it.. Are they?

[quote="Stryker":3dkcvtis][quote="RambOrc":3dkcvtis]No MD2 planned for KA (except for a couple of scenery objects maybe). Well, If there was MD2 Planned for it, Who would do it? ME [img:3dkcvtis]http://www.planetquake.com/gargoyle/armahedtex3.jpg[/img:3dkcvtis] ph34r mah blender skillz!!1!

IMO going over a certain point with a DOOM source port doesn't make sense. If you add too many new features, you end up with a clone of a newer generation engine, just badly written and slower (any DOOM engine port I tried this far was running slower on the same hardware as Quake II which is still in many ways a moderner engine). Doomsday is going into a completely wrong direction (and has been for years), adding nifty light effects that require latest video cards, replacing sprites with 3D models and original textures with ultra high resolution ones results in one thing: to show you how utterly simple and even primitive most levels are (especially in DOOM and Strife, somewhat less so in Heretic/Hexen). The end product is good for a couple of fanatics, but not for any real purposes. No matter what you do with DOOM engine games, they won't come anywhere near today's games in terms of visual quality and overall look - and by making the source port sluggish on lower end machines, you lose the one very strong point of the original games: fast and furious nonstop action against hordes of monsters. Something very few games tried to reproduce this last decade (and I can name only one that succeeded at least partially, Painkiller). Sensible things for a DOOM engine port are IMO those things that existed already back then, if not in those games then in the competition. While DOOM's feature list is really short, Heretic and especially Hexen added quite some to it - making these available for DOOM maps is a good idea, this is what ZDOOM and Vavoom authors both understood. Other things are slopes and 3D floors, while DOOM engine games didn't have them (though Hexen offered already some crude 3D features, you could not only put objects in the air you could walk/fly through above and below unlike in DOOM, you could even walk over such objects as if they'd be a sector floor), concurring engines did have some or all of these. Dark Forces used a couple of tricks to allow rooms on top of each other, and some of the Build engine games had not only this but also slopes. Strife used some kind of software trick for translucent textures (all those hazy windows). Oh yes and some Build engine games allowed for swimmable water, though they used some very primitive tricks for that (in terms of 3D technology, you could call it cheating). Also, Dark Forces supported low res skin, simple 3D models for some architecture, scenery and vehicles which could even move (that was quite a feat back then, less than 2 years after the release of the very first DOOM game). See how my list is covering Vavoom's feature list to a great extent whereas it barely has anything in common with Doomsday's feature list? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As to what to adopt from later generation 3D games for a DOOM source port that makes sense and is even badly needed? Bots. ZDOOM and Vavoom have it, I don't know how it stands with other ports right now. And one thing I personally find very cool: skyboxes. It was one of the things that marked the clear superiority of the Unreal engine over anything id could spit out, Unreal's skyboxes made outdoors maps into a living world, whereas the only skybox attempt of id ever (in Quake II) was rather lame. OTOH, I don't think a DOOM source port needs 1024x1024 textures instead of the 128x128 ones of the original games, or 3D models for everything, or more shiny lights than a Xmas tree... if I wanted to make a game mod that looks as visually awesome as Unreal II or Far Cry, then I'd go and make a mod for those games. Korax projects are Hexen mods (and KA also a Heretic mod), and they live from giving you the same classic look & feel as the original games (well to a certain extent, though if you switch Vavoom to 320x200 software mode, it'll look if not exactly but rather close to the original Hexen). LOL it became quite a long rant and I could even go on and say more but even so maybe nobody will have the patience to read it all. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

I did. - Yes it's true Doomsday's got sluggish 3d models and textures support, it runs dandy on my 1ghz till you get the model pack, and while each model has a Quake2 level of polycount amongst it's standard, the game goes much slower. Not even I could understand this unoptimized slowdown, not even LOD's could help it. - To add to the slowdown, most of the "new textures" use odd resolutions like 1201x690. Using odd texture resolutions will cause the load time to be much longer and alot slower when playing (it will round up to the nearest higher res, so it'll be a 2048x1024 texture, stretched, no resampling, and hella ugly) - If you want to modernize the DooM engine to be like Doom III or something, start with a totally different engine! Quake1's a good base. That's what it's there for. No need to reinvent the lightmap or models support. - Legacy has the cajun bot as well, but that port doesn't interest me anymore - Unreal had Skyrooms. Totally different concept from skyboxes <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> (Render a room of sky in the sky, heck in most cases you can noclip into that sky room and summon objects there! Imagine Godzilla-size-16x Skaarj warriors walking on that planet you see up there)

I remember having played Quake II on a 500 or 600 MHz Athlon with a GeForce 2 GTS on 1024x768 with 4x FSAA and it was completely fluent, never choppy for a moment. No DOOM port can do that, even w/o 3D models. If I'd start making a game like Korax' Heritage with anything but a source port of the original engine, I'd use the UT engine (if sources are available, not sure) because that one runs quite fluent on average computers of today and even of two years ago, and has pretty much every feature I'd want. But no, I don't think I'll ever get that far. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Quake2's indeed very playable on my p100, infact I completed the game on that computer first (w/ voodoo2 and all) Then again.... I don't like Quake2. Mouse filter helps the smooth flow. (m_filter 1, goes for ALL Quake engine games) As far as I know, UT isn't open-source. If you want a pretty open source engine to start with that runs well on say, a P2 233 w/ a Banshee 16mb, check out QFusion, but unfortunately QuakeSRC.org is down at the time of this typing. Basically, it's a Q2-based engine supporting Q3A shaders and formats, and all in it's own original code, not the illegal GOLK's. Missing content is placeholdered internally so you don't have to copy the same model over in other's needed models places until you make a model for <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> There is also mods for it that give it much much further functionality, like Splitmod, with bots and q3a player model support, iirc. Ah what am I saying, i'm tired and I need my ZZ's and my Tops.

I'm not interested in modding for any of the Quake engines... IMO they are all very limited when it comes to building awesome outdoor environments (something the Unreal engine can do very well even in its first public version, not to mention later releases).

All that you mentions here is true, and I think that something that makes a real diference between ports is the kind of features that conform it, I mean there are ports for everything right now, "eye candy" stuff, that is: awesome lighting effects and models with "real" looking skins (Doomsday), the cool feature ones (like ZDoom and Vavoom), and some others that aren't good and don't have future (like Legacy for my opinion), but I think that respecting the original looks and feelings when you make a MOD or an engine for a specific game, gives more value to the work you make (specially if you can make the engine get to it's limits and you can work with any bugs the engine might have, or to use them on your aid, heh! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> ), that's why I really like the Korax projects from the beginning, because they are really ambicious (I mean, in terms of gameplay and features), we want to make some cool features that no other MOD or engine has planned ever, RPG elements, Spells, etc. and that's a really good addition to the engine, no matter how new or old it is <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->. It requires to make adjustments of all kinds, not only for the gameplay, enemies, AI, etc. but for the feeling of the game, I mean, if you think it clearly, our MOD still has that same feeling that Hexen had when you played it for the first time!!! That's what I like so much from all this stuff, that we have added and combined two different kinds of game styles (1st person shooters & RPG stuff) and have a product that feels and plays as the original Hexen, which is why much MODS fail when being done, because their final product requires a lot of hardware that much people who have the hope don't acomplish, and when they do, the result is to be playing some other thing that is not the original game.

That's another reason why Vavoom was chosen and the decision was made for sprites and low-res textures, so that the original Hexen artwork can be used, expanded and freshened up a bit with some similar-style new art.

[quote="RambOrc":2ms1ornc]IMO they are all very limited when it comes to building awesome outdoor environments (something the Unreal engine can do very well even in its first public version, not to mention later releases). The Q3A engine, and many newer Q1 engines can fix that up. Don't take the awful AIR1 map as an assumption on what they can do, i'm referring to stuff like Q3TA's 3 terrain maps. Such as this <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I'm not trying to convince a switch at all, but I just wanna bring some things up. In speaking of open source, Carmack mentioned today he's gonna make Q3A open sourced by the end of the year, somewhere on the slashdot forums. Heh heh But yeah I agree with the whole artwork consistency thing KA has going on...

Whether I'll ever again do game modding once all planned Korax mods are out the door (most of them you don't even know about yet, hehe - some will be announced in the coming days/weeks) is still an open question, if yes I definitely want to use some version of the Unreal engine, I'm no big fan of Carmack and am not exactly awed by what he churns out. The first DOOM was really a major breakthrough (though it took Raven to make the game into what it should have been in the first place, unlike in DOOM in Heretic there really are graphics that deserve the name "artwork"), but everything since then is like Microsoft: they claim to be the leading edge and they claim to invent all those new technologies, but the truth is both with MS and with id is that the competition does have it first and they just copy it, but have a better marketing machine and so the public believes they were the first. <!-- s:x --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mad.gif" alt=":x" title="Mad" /><!-- s:x --> As for the Korax projects, there are very few arguments for porting it to any newer engine and a LOT more arguments against it. Korax is about Hexen look & feel with the great gameplay of the early and mid-90s RPG games (something that mostly died out by now).

True, and most of the new RPG's we're getting are just lame MMORPG's that are everquest-wannabes now. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> You guys ever played Amulets & Armor? That's a rather fun and HIGHLY UNDERRATED Doom-based RPG. Other than the pixely non-aliased art direction and the almost unmixed programmer's voices for sound, I think you'll like it <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=3021">http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=3021</a><!-- m --> It could bring some inspiration someday!

But not a commercial game, right?

If you mean A&A, then that game never was commercial - it couldn't get anywhere in the market. It was a total canned flop <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

Looks a lot like Witchaven, and a bit like Strife (from the screenshots). BTW Korax' Heritage started out in 2000 and that project (the epic RPG) is still nowhere near completion, and I've seen many an idea I had back then to be implemented in commercial games in the meantime. If KH would've come out late 2000 or early 2001, it might have been groundbreaking (but then again, back then there wasn't much of a team to speak of).

LOL! <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=2040">http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?id=2040</a><!-- m -->

[quote="RambOrc":pjveno1p]Looks a lot like Witchaven, and a bit like Strife (from the screenshots). And it plays entirely different from either <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=3924">http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?gameid=3924</a><!-- m --> This is a goodie Action-RPG as well, and Amulets & Armor's interface is very similar to it.