...and actually did some work on the long dead KMod3, it took me a good long while to get it running properly, lots of problems introduced from the change from M$VC++6 to M$VC++8. But I've already done some bug fixing, mainly on the controls menu, I think I may try and add some of the other features that we talked about in the past and just play with this for a while alone. You know, when I have the spare time, or get bored of the overly simple Uni coursework. Oh and just as another note, does anyone have a Hexen palette file (.act)?

You continued working on this project because you were BORED? <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Yes, yes I did. You have to remember this is pretty much Janis' baby that I took care of. I feel obliged to finish it. And now that I haven't seen the little bar steward for a while, I may be able to finish. As I said I've already fixed a few bugs in the menu system, and also the automap, it now covers all of the screen as opposed to just the top left quarter.

Sounds good, I'm not averse to properly tying off this development branch (i.e. through a real final 3.0 release).

Wahey, in which case I think I'll just lay out my plans. -Fix/adjust/balance the 5 attribute system (this was never really done before and was what a lot of the complaints over the beta were about). -High resolution help/credit screens. -Improve HUD, either just re-size it to fill the new bigger base resolution or a full re-design. -Port one or 2 of the cleric's weapons from Korax Arena, the poor bugger never got anything new for KMod3. And possibly if it doesn't take too long: -Context based F1 menus. -New spell system, (instead of having 7 spell buttons, have one spell button and you change the spell your using via the spell book). Oh and all the horrid little bugs that have been mentioned already.

Maybe give the cleric the morning star (minus the green glow), which he'll be able to use after a certain level. It could have the same range as in Korax Arena, and be a bit less damaging than the fighter's axe when glowing, but more than the mace.

It's cool to hear KMod 3 will have further developments! it'll be interesting to see a final KMod 3 version <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. Also, cool to see you around Moose <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Yep an upgrade for the cleric's mace sounds a good idea, especially in kmod where the cleric could put a lot of points into strength and make his mace quite a headknocker already. With a stronger melee weapon, this class would become more versatile.

As you can well see, I'm no artist. [img:1gttjldi]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/KORAX00.jpg[/img:1gttjldi] So Firebrand, or Mago (has anyone seen Mago recently) if you have the time could you work on my rough art to make something that bends with the original.

Let me get the idea of this, you want to extend the status bar to use the whole screen, right? May I ask you the measures of the image to place as status bar? I'm guessing by your screenshot that it's 320 x 32 pixels, or something else and you are stretching it? EDIT: Also, could you please provide me that single status bar patch you are using? Thanks!

I'll upload the .bmp that I was working on. --EDIT-- [url:3azk8qes]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/kmod3/H2BAR.bmp There you go, it's basically the original H2BAR, but twice as long, and with my crappy art on either end. I intend to add some extra stats to the boxes on either end. So could you make sure that the graphic accommodates for that.

I guess it'd eventually looks something like this, if I were to re-do the spell system. [img:3vddwq8a]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/HUDIdea.jpg[/img:3vddwq8a] Oh and I have to say, I love SVN, it's so much more simple to use compared to CVS. --EDIT-- You may also have noticed that I've swapped over to the new mage wand sprites.

Well, first of all I was never a huge fan of having such a small 320pixel statbar spanning a 640+ width resolution (in fact I've always found it hideous). If you ask me, the statbar should wrap around the bottom of the screen REGARDLESS of resolution. That said, it's best IMO if the added information you're going to put on it is either in the middle or on a second row below.

The base resolution was changed to 640x480 by Janis a while ago, it doesn't matter what resolution you use to render, the HUD will always fit a 640px wide gap. [quote="The 4th Class":k10p5hvl]That said, it's best IMO if the added information you're going to put on it is either in the middle or on a second row below. Could you explain this a little better, maybe with pictures?

I'll try to make something like what I did for the KA status bar, I've got some pics from it from the modified stuff we made for 0.9 beta <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I'm sure I'll create some new things for KMod 3.0 if possible <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> .

[quote="Moose":2mldshx3]The base resolution was changed to 640x480 by Janis a while ago, it doesn't matter what resolution you use to render, the HUD will always fit a 640px wide gap. [quote="The 4th Class":2mldshx3]That said, it's best IMO if the added information you're going to put on it is either in the middle or on a second row below. Could you explain this a little better, maybe with pictures? What I mean is put all the statistics in between the gargoyles - nothing outside them. As for a second row below, what I mean is have two rows of statistics: one on the top, the other on the bottom of the pic. Maybe the bottom row could be below the gargoyles, so it's not too thin.

Cheers Firebrand, if you can do that you'd be awesome. Well even more so. Lucas - I get what you mean now, we'll let FB do it how he sees fit, then see how it looks in game. After that we can hopefully chop and change things if needed. It's almost like the old days. Except I'm having less difficulty doing things.

Here's what I've done so far, please tell me if you like it this way or prefer everything between the gargoyles, they can be moved to the edge of the image without much complication <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [img:2zg38y55]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/BAR_PROGRESS.jpg[/img:2zg38y55] This is what I've got this far.

It's cool, though I'm worried the statbar might be too thick: the player won't be able to see as much of the screen. Though that's probably insignificant. Other than that...I still say I prefer having the gargoyles at the ends.

In game it looks like this: [img:3u2gfw0d]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/newbar.jpg[/img:3u2gfw0d] It's not too big, and it does mean that I can fit more information at either end. FB - great work, I just hope you have been working with it in a non-compressed format <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> . Might I suggest leaving the text for now, as I'm not sure what we want or where it'll go exactly. On another note, I've also added context based F1 screens. Well they show a different spell screen for each class.

OK, let's leave the text for now, I'll finish it once you design what will be shown on it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, that's not a real problem, as for being to thick, you can always create a fullscreen HUD like the one KA has <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

Thats cool I'll try and work on it over the weekend, see what I come up with.

Ok, personally I think Firebrand's working statbar is fine the way it is, though obviously the cyan must be fixed. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Though I'm curious what's gonna go on the right side? How about instead of it looking like this:

LEVEL: x        |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| 
EXP  : y        |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| 

Here's what I recommend <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

LEVEL    |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| MONEY
x        |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| z
         |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| 
EXP      |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| MAGIC POINTS (or something)
y        |MIDDLE OF IMAGE| zz

I was thinking of an experience bar like in Korax Arena, and replace experience needed with the active spell, because as you gain levels, it's going to take more and more digits to represent the experience (up to 6, 7 if you have a whole lot of patience). That would give you more room and maybe look a bit better in the status bar.

Something a little like this perhaps? [img:3oildkoz]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/Moded_bar.jpg[/img:3oildkoz] Sorry it's a little rough, it's 1:45 in the morning and I've just got back form drinking.

I was actually thinking of something more like this, but yours looks good too: [img:qmmrvv9l]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/fury/cgss01.jpg[/img:qmmrvv9l] except there would be just the two numbers and the yellow bar would be for the experience. Or if that doesn't work, you could make a small bar in the magenta spot: [img:qmmrvv9l]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/fury/Moded_bar2.jpg[/img:qmmrvv9l]

[quote="Moose":9fpxuxts]Something a little like this perhaps? [img:9fpxuxts]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/Moded_bar.jpg[/img:9fpxuxts] Sorry it's a little rough, it's 1:45 in the morning and I've just got back form drinking. Chris does the top right text say "hp?" Cause we already have a life box. And Ichor's first bar is really nice, though perhaps the numbers should be right underneath their appropriate bars, just to avoid confusion. Then again, you have an interesting idea with the magenta bar. If we should slip more bars on top of every flat region on the tip of the main statbar, we probably wouldn't even need the extra info behind the gargoyles. Then again, that would be really confusing to read if the extra bars weren't labelled somehow.

[quote="The 4th Class":2ws0da9o]Chris does the top right text say "hp?" Cause we already have a life box. Nope, it's "MP". Although FB should make 3 versions of it, "Battle Rage", "Faith" and "Magic", or whatever the 3 different names were.

It can be done, I prefer Ichor's suggestion to use bars for the current EXP amount to get a new level, it's much easier to present the info and you don't have to draw big numbers in the status bar, as for the spells, why not represent them with a small image of their attack or something? it will be much easier to identify them IMO.

Well I intended to try and get the mechanics working today but that back fired badly, I was at work all morning and slept all afternoon. Hopefully I'll have better luck tomorrow. Then we can see what it looks like with the mechanics in place, if people still don't like what they see, we may have to re-design the HUD from scratch. Oh and I'm having trouble adding the new HELP screens, my new ones just get displayed as trash when in game, but basicly thats the only problem with my context based F1 system. And thats not programming, it's my inability to add stuff to wad files properly.

Wahey look what I've done. [img:31i9wh26]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/bar_ingame.jpg[/img:31i9wh26]

Ooooooo, nice.

Cool! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> But why does the status bar look with that blue edges there? the image had them on it <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

I wonder, why still keep that solid heavy status bar? why not make modern style status icons placed along screen edges, I dunno, like on this shot for example: [img:2ya5ybjs]http://pix.playground.ru/view/19664.jpg[/img:2ya5ybjs] 3 bars are Health/Mana/Stamina, then active weapon pic, active spell pic, compass and LevelUp icon.

[quote="Firebrand":52z7yugf]Cool! Cool But why does the status bar look with that blue edges there? the image had them on it Question Because I'm using the image that you uploaded to KDev, which is a .jpg, and as such has been compressed, causing some of the colour to change. [quote="Crimson":52z7yugf]I wonder, why still keep that solid heavy status bar? why not make modern style status icons placed along screen edges, We'll have both, depending on the screen size. I'll post screenshots of that too later.

I guess it's clear but just to be on the safe side: that red number from the upper right corner belongs onto the new statbar too.

Already done, just as a quick update, it looks like this now: [img:18o4zurj]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/bar_ingame2.jpg[/img:18o4zurj] I've even made crappy graphics for all of the spells, what do you think of possession?

[quote="Moose":1x48hsu5]I've even made crappy graphics for all of the spells, what do you think of possession? Leave it to the 2D artists on the team. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

<!-- s:o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_surprised.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /><!-- s:o --> Rambo I'm shocked!! You think thats bad, you should see the others.

How about instead of just a bar for EXP, we give a percentage, so when you reach a new level it starts at 0%, and you need to bring it back to 100% to get to the next level. Saves pixel fragmentation and it gives you a clear data. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And CW is your screenshot from Oblivion? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

[quote="The 4th Class":rw95qvsn]How about instead of just a bar for EXP, we give a percentage, so when you reach a new level it starts at 0%, and you need to bring it back to 100% to get to the next level. Saves pixel fragmentation and it gives you a clear data. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Or make both? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

IMO that would be too messy.

Not if it's like this: [img:3qo8mjvi]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/fury/bar_ingame3.jpg[/img:3qo8mjvi]

[quote="The 4th Class":adnubf59]And CW is your screenshot from Oblivion? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Yep. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Actually I could show some other modern game, but I thought that this fits more since it is action/RPG too.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":9z927wo4]I wonder, why still keep that solid heavy status bar? why not make modern style status icons placed along screen edges... Because there's people who have slow computers and need to draw smaller game screens? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> [quote="Crimson Wizard":9z927wo4]3 bars are Health/Mana/Stamina, then active weapon pic, active spell pic, compass and LevelUp icon. I think we should also remake the fullscreen HUD, it wasn't that complicated to do for KA IMO and it looks really good too.

[quote="Firebrand":2kim4x6l][quote="Crimson Wizard":2kim4x6l]I wonder, why still keep that solid heavy status bar? why not make modern style status icons placed along screen edges... Because there's people who have slow computers and need to draw smaller game screens? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> You mean 386? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

[quote="Ichor":z74wchve]Not if it's like this: [img:z74wchve]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/fury/bar_ingame3.jpg[/img:z74wchve] What's the 4, well, for? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> And following up on CW's idea, why not implement a semi-HUD he was talking about. but instead of using bars we use numbers? Here's what I had in mind... BOTTOM LEFT: Current HP / Maximum HP (or should we keep these numbers fixed to a percentage?) BOTTOM RIGHT: Ammo/mana TOP LEFT: Current MP / Maximum MP (ditto) TOP RIGHT: Current level / % of EXP required left to get new level Well it's a work in progress. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

[quote="The 4th Class":19959egr]What's the 4, well, for? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> The money.

What, too lazy to add a $ sign? <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

That 4 is the amount of silver you have. I'll do some work on the full screen HUD when I get back form work, I have ideas for it. It's going to be awesome <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> .

Alas, I just got fired today. <!-- s:cry: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /><!-- s:cry: --> Found a new guy who'd do the same job as me for less money.

Dude, that sucks. Over here your employer can't do that without justified reasoning for firing you.

Heh, well I guess here in Canada if you work at the bottom end of retail, you can be withdrawn from office with full compensation only until you finish your formal training - by that time yes your job is secure. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> I was only there for part time work for about 3 weeks, making $10/hr, then they found some mommy's boy who'd work full time and the idiot willingly said he'd do it for only $7.75. Since that's minimum wage here he can't complain, it's his loss. And the store offered me the $10 in the first place. <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

How does this look for a fullscreen HUD? [img:1ei553ra]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/fullscreen.jpg[/img:1ei553ra] Compared to the small HUD the only things not shown are the weapon pieces and silver.

Whoa it's real great now! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Though technically it's not a fullscreen HUD: a true fullscreen HUD is no HUD at all. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> BTW what does HUD stand for? <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->

HUD = Heads Up Display. I'm glad you like it, personally I think it's damn impressive. And I think I can now tick "Improve HUD" off my list. the only things left now are shifting the numbers on the small HUD when Firebrand finishes the graphic off. List now looks like this: +Fix/adjust Attribute system +High res help/credit screens +Morningstar for Cleric +Spellbook

Looks cool! Nice ideas you've got there, maybe we can try to make the experience numbers dissapear from the KA HUD too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Yep, the same arrangement in the upper right corner would work for KA too. Since in KA there is a max level, the number could read 4/10 instead of just 4 in KA.

I've started work on the spell book, it currently only displays the spells you have, plus in selecting one and then exiting the spell book it changes your selected spell in the HUD.

[img:u8atxzz4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/moose/images/spellbook.jpg[/img:u8atxzz4] It needs shifting around a bit still, but it basically works, now all I have to do it re-jig the actual in-game spell system, and bobs your mothers brother, we'll have a super spell system that will be of more practical use than the old one.

I guess you mean "pools of blood", because "bloody pools" is a British only expression you use when you have a problem with swimming pools in general <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> On a more serious note, it's "its name" and not "it's name". Once you are done with all new text entries, just post them in a topic and I'll correct them if needed.

It's probably best, my English is terrible. Which is really bad as I'm English. Anyway, apart from my poor grammar, do you approve?

Basically yes, though the layout should be different or there should be some underlying picture, as currently the left navigation bar and the right content bar is not well distinguishable.

I really like what you are doing Moose <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it's really cool to finally see the beginnings of the spellbook! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Spell book is pretty much done, just a few small bugs to iron out. You don't know how much more useful it is having all the spells on the right mouse button.

Is the game paused while you read the spellbook? Cause if it ain't I don't think people would have the time to even read your lovely abstracts. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Nevertheless, great job as always.

Yeah, the spell book does indeed pause the game. And switching spells can also be done via the old spell1-7 keys. Personally I'm really happy with the way this has turned out. I'll stick an internal beta up if anyones interested.