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Heresiarh weapons

Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:45:04

doomjedi

So, I have some questions (I won't make the weapons today, as i'm going out, but I'll try tomorrow). 1. What type of weapons needed (magic/energy, cold weapons......) 2. What are the creative limitations (do you want certain color of energy, way of shooting or visual style), you can I decide those myself? 3. How many frames (if there is a limitation) 4. How many weapons and of which concept 5. Resolution/size (?) 6. Can you use elements from existing weapons /alterations or modifications from other games and sprites - OR should it be made from scratch?
Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:33:46

Crimson Wizard

[quote="doomjedi":2c246mxq]So, I have some questions (I won't make the weapons today, as i'm going out, but I'll try tomorrow). 1. What type of weapons needed (magic/energy, cold weapons......) 2. What are the creative limitations (do you want certain color of energy, way of shooting or visual style), you can I decide those myself? 3. How many frames (if there is a limitation) 4. How many weapons and of which concept 5. Resolution/size (?) 6. Can you use elements from existing weapons /alterations or modifications from other games and sprites - OR should it be made from scratch? First of all, weapons are already programmed, what we need - are sprites. (I'll explain what are those weapons below) Ofcourse any new ideas accepted. I believe you didn't mentioned your knowledge about creating mod on Vavoom, but creating weapons is usually in some ways different from zDoom (good thing is that Vavoom uses similar "states" feature to define frames/actions). As I said, weapons are already there, but currently they are using sprites from old existing weapons (I took them so they fit at least logically). So it will be great if you make "view" sprites for them. There's no need in "item" sprites though, because those weapons are given to Heresiarch automatically. Also, you may make sprites for projectiles they shoot if you think they do not look good enouph. There's no known limitations in frames number (at least known to me <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> ). Visual style is a matter of sprite-creator's imagination, but ofcourse it should fit the way how weapon attacks. As for resolution, currently we use low-res graphics from original games (Hexen, Heretic etc), but since Vavoom supports hi-res, you may do new ones in hi-res (I am not sure about our general plan in what sprite quality we should stick to, hope RambOrc or Firebrand add their comments here). Now, about weapons. First of all, if you haven't seen the Korax Arena itself, you may download last beta release from the main page here (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/">http://www.korax-heritage.com/</a><!-- m -->) (but I think you already know that). Try playing Kill The Heresiarch mode and become a Heresiarch. Then, you'll see those weapons in action. 1. Claws. Currently are using Fighter's Gauntlets' sprites; but AFAIK Firebrand has already made new ones. 2. Purple ray. Shoots purple fireballs from caster's hand. Currently using Cleric's Firestorm-casting hands. I think Firebrand mentioned something about working on new ones. Now what is absolutely free to work upon. - 3. The Storm. It consists of 3 "parts", like 3 gestures caster makes. First gesture sends forth three average power lightings (Hexen style), second casts a 90 degrees arc of powerfull sparks, third gesture casts similar but less powerful 60 degrees arc of sparks. 4. Infernal Hand. (my favorite <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> ) Currently it uses Hexen Mage's Bloodscourge sprites. When fires it spawns a "rolling head" (real Heresiarch from Hexen uses such projectile in one of his attacks). That rolling head flies and is self-guidant, plus it may rip through several enemy players and creates a vast explosion on death. 5. Unholy Sign. Currently it has Hexen Cleric' Wraithedge as a sprite. In the beta version available it acts very bad and unconvenient, I tried to make sort of laser beam by dynamic lights, but this sucks <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> I planned to change this weapon so it spawns a number of spirits in front of player who attack nearby enemies and quickly dissapear. Maybe you will have better ideas. EDIT: I renewed my knowledge by launching last beta and found out that Firebrand already put new sprites for first 2 weapons there, however they look a bit unfinished. (Sorry FB, but that's true <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> )
Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:18:40

doomjedi

Yes, I played the Korax Arena, it's just that I didn't test that game mode until now. Wow, this Heresiarh dude is strong <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. I have to say this mod is more fun than Skulltag's Terminator game mode, because of new powerful weapons. I see what I need to do (again , today I don't have the time for such work). About weapon sprites already made by the other spriter, I need to see them in order to improve those. So, can I actually invent more attack to Heresiarch? Or alter existing concepts? Maybe some ROTT concepts can fit, like firewall. Another cool thing is using some Heretic SpellBook attacks, like the lava rain from the ceiling, and the Orb-using weapon power attack.
Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:04:45

Crimson Wizard

I would like to say that yes, you may invent new attacks for Hereisarch, but unfortunately it comes so "Big H." is already too much powerful. I doubt he needs extra weaponry. But probably you may create another version of the 5th weapon, since, as I said, I do not really like what I did there.
Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:12:54

Firebrand

First than anything, welcome to the team <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , it's always nice to have new people around that has some nice ideas and is able to help with new artwork for our projects, since it's something we will be relying on for KA <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Also, it's cool to hear from another guy that worked with Carnevil on Skulltag, I started working there before joining to KH team, I made some artwork for ST, like the Marine II skin and some powerups, some of the skins there are my piece of work too, but they still might need some more work <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. OK, now for the comments on the project and how to work with artwork, you can check KDev (our FTP server for files that are on development), it contains some interesting artwork stuff for our RPG project Scattered Evil (SE) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, they are mostly done by our talented lead artist Mago, he also made some nice documents on how to create sprites from hand drawings (which you REALLY need to check out). I've made some sprites for the heresiarch weapons, I've made the claw and the purple ray sprites, unfortunately for me, I was already expecting some rush from real life stuff and had to work on the new sprites really fast, we were also going to make a release of the new beta, and I wanted to at least have a base for them, that's why they look a bit rushed up, but I was expecting to clean them up for the next release, if you think you can help with it, please go ahead <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, you can find a ZIP file on my folder in KDev (H_Weapons.zip). As for technical stuff about sprites, try to do them in the standard doom engine format (palleted BMP files) using the pallet from Hexen, if you can add a couple more frames for the claw attack it would make it look A LOT better, once you've made the sprites, Crimson Wizard or I (when I'm back) can take care of adding them on the game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. You can use whatever base you want for the new weapons, or make it from scratch, it's the same, the only thing you should be careful with, is that it keeps the feel of weapons from the game, in this case you can use Hexen/Heretic style without much problem. If you need instructions for connecting to the FTP, please check the sticky threads for it, if you have anymore questions or problems, feel free to PM me or post here and I or someone else on the team can help you out, thanks for you interest in our team and projects! Enjoy your stay here! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> Also, you'll soon notice the bunch of sarcastic comments around the team members, we are a strange bunch of people, but you'll get used to it soon <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:22:05

mago

I make Firebrand's words my own. Anything you need, drop me a pm or post somewhere on the forum. It's been long time since I last did some meaningful work here, but I can at least give you some pointers on the projects.
Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:48:51

doomjedi

[quote="Firebrand":101wah3n]First than anything, welcome to the team <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , it's always nice to have new people around that has some nice ideas and is able to help with new artwork for our projects, since it's something we will be relying on for KA <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Thank you <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Ideas is my middle name, I'm as creative as one can get. always have tons of ideas. Sometimes they leave the game overfeatured, like my cDoom (Contra-Style Doom project).... <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> [url:101wah3n]http://splitdoom2d.doomwadstation.com/
Also, it's cool to hear from another guy that worked with Carnevil on Skulltag, I started working there before joining to KH team, I made some artwork for ST, like the Marine II skin and some powerups, some of the skins there are my piece of work too, but they still might need some more work <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Nice work, pal <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I did only contribute to the latest 0.97 version, but in this one almost if not all of the graphics non-textured additions were mine...skins, medals, improved flag animation, scenery.....
OK, now for the comments on the project and how to work with artwork, you can check KDev (our FTP server for files that are on development), it contains some interesting artwork stuff for our RPG project Scattered Evil (SE) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, they are mostly done by our talented lead artist Mago, he also made some nice documents on how to create sprites from hand drawings (which you REALLY need to check out).
Thank you, I'll check the FTP. Actually I'm more specifically interested in helping Korax Arena project, and less on other, especially as I'm known not to be huge RPG-gameplay lover, just 3d run&shoot <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->....though with time I might get into that as well. Though I can contribute freely ideas for all your projects, I always have plenty.....There are many cool RPG ideas I wish were implemented
I've made some sprites for the heresiarch weapons, I've made the claw and the purple ray sprites, unfortunately for me, I was already expecting some rush from real life stuff and had to work on the new sprites really fast, we were also going to make a release of the new beta, and I wanted to at least have a base for them, that's why they look a bit rushed up, but I was expecting to clean them up for the next release, if you think you can help with it, please go ahead <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, you can find a ZIP file on my folder in KDev (H_Weapons.zip).
I'll check it out. How do you work with your sprites? XWE doesn't seem to have Hexen palette (maybe I have older version?), GFE doesn't show the images at all, Dragon Unpacker crushes on WAD load.... <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> Maybe you'll just send me the sprites?
Also, you'll soon notice the bunch of sarcastic comments around the team members, we are a strange bunch of people, but you'll get used to it soon <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.
Oh, I'm Scorpio sign, so I sure know to get Stingy <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:24:19

Moose

To get the palette file, open hexen.wad in XWE and export the palette from that. It's how I did it and is a simple enough process. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with, oh and welcome to the team.
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:40:57

doomjedi

Made a SoulCaster (aka Unholy Sign) concept for Heresiarh. [url:2tbxrvxg]http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/soulcaster.zip Alternative idea is make the same concept, but within an magic Orb, the same soul movement. And then - release
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 11:17:46

RambOrc

I like it. Are the hands from you or from FB?
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:08:35

doomjedi

[quote="RambOrc":1qrrqcd7]I like it. Are the hands from you or from FB? Thank you <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> The hand is based on the FB sprite, but modified to fit that holding position, including gravity-consistency. I'm currently working on the The Storm weapon (all 3 states). Going well, I think you'll like this one. I'll try to put Heresiarh hands to be visible for all the weapons - it's cooler that way, you really feel Heresiarh.
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:16:16

Crimson Wizard

[quote="doomjedi":cf2hswc5]Made a SoulCaster (aka Unholy Sign) concept for Heresiarh. [url:cf2hswc5]http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/soulcaster.zip Alternative idea is make the same concept, but within an magic Orb, the same soul movement. And then - release Woa, interesting vision of this weapon! However I suppose it may need a couple of extra sprites between existing ones; secondly, can you speicify your idea - do you mean those tiny ghosts are simply decorations or they should transfrom into real ones? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:00:44

doomjedi

[quote="Crimson Wizard":3ovo928a][quote="doomjedi":3ovo928a]Made a SoulCaster (aka Unholy Sign) concept for Heresiarh. [url:3ovo928a]http://www.geocities.com/maxgenis/soulcaster.zip Alternative idea is make the same concept, but within an magic Orb, the same soul movement. And then - release Woa, interesting vision of this weapon! However I suppose it may need a couple of extra sprites between existing ones; secondly, can you speicify your idea - do you mean those tiny ghosts are simply decorations or they should transfrom into real ones? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Well, those were just concept frames for some feedback, of cause they need retouch. Already did a bit retouch btw.... No, those won't transform into real ghosts, thought they do represent ghosts released from the Astral Orb, it'll just shoot many ghosts, and as they move fast you won't notice the transition from those to real ones shot randomly.
Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:54:57

Firebrand

I like the work you have made so far, but I had an idea about the spirits, to make them look better, it would be cool to make them dark gray/darker than the original sprites, maybe even add some shades of red to make them look more evil, it would also be nice if there could be an idle animation of the sphere maybe glowing or something <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, just some ideas.
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:25:06

doomjedi

Well, I see your point, and It's quite doable, but I think there must be some consistency between the seen and released souls. I can work if there would be souls inside the orb, guarded by the evil souls from outside the orb flying around it. In general - should we make souls inside the orb, or outside it? Do you have a good round orb image the size we need? Preferrably transparent. I started working on the Storm, but got confused by selecting which hand position to use as a base of it. As we are talking about 3 different attacks, maybe it's not that big of a problem. The whole movement can vary, and I can't decide which way to go. I can do a cape to fit anything. Also added rings to the hand fingers. looks cool.
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:21:21

Firebrand

Well, I could work with the current sphere you have now and make it transparent (it's not very difficult <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). As for the trapped spirits, if I can manage to make the sphere transparent, it should be a matter of using different layers to achieve this effect in a nice way, I'll try to work on the transparent sphere later today <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:56:36

Crimson Wizard

[quote="doomjedi":3qvd2dno]I started working on the Storm, but got confused by selecting which hand position to use as a base of it. As we are talking about 3 different attacks, maybe it's not that big of a problem. The whole movement can vary, and I can't decide which way to go. I am sorry, I don't get it. Can you explain your problem a bit more detailed?
Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:19:12

doomjedi

[quote="Firebrand":1nzknvyz]Well, I could work with the current sphere you have now and make it transparent (it's not very difficult <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). As for the trapped spirits, if I can manage to make the sphere transparent, it should be a matter of using different layers to achieve this effect in a nice way, I'll try to work on the transparent sphere later today <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Maybe I'll send you the latest retouched versions of them though, not to to a work twice <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
I am sorry, I don't get it. Can you explain your problem a bit more detailed?
The problem can be divided in 2: 1. Hard to invent an attack which with be too different in style than the original Storm. Mainly energy focus, than hands go aside releasing it. 2. Me being a perfectionist. When I have 100 ways to do something, I'm not pleased until I make all the 100x99x98.... variations of it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> When a choice somes, I usually select "all" <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I can use any of the existing hand position for storm animations, and noticing there are 2 hands in this one, it's alot of variations, as hands can be in different poses <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:34:32

Crimson Wizard

Err... whatever... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> do your best, we are not in hurry for those weapons.
Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:06:00

doomjedi

Are there any needed tasks beside the weapons? items and such?
Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:11:15

Firebrand

Well, if you want to make items, you could work on the weapons pickups, they still have some weapons that aren't even in the game, the thing is just to make the weapons tiers for 3rd, 4th, etc. weapons for every class (just look at the actual weapons pickups to base on that) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for new items, right now everything is covered, we don't have planned on adding new items to the game, we have some "rewards" messages for doing 2 kills in a row, sniper shots, etc. I think it would be cool to add an icon displaying them (like in Q3 arena) for the player on screen (maybe just in the match results screen or in-game if you want, just an idea.
Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:23:22

doomjedi

You mean medals, like in Skulltag? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I made many medal's for Skulltag, and even (tssss, a secret) for WolfTC <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:26:48

Firebrand

Yes! that's what I meant <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it sounds interesting. There's no need to send any files via e-mail, you can always upload them to KDev and post links here <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.
Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:10:34

doomjedi

I don't think we need to steal medal graphics from SkullTag or WolfTC....but we can try to invent new ones.

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