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Doom Builder (just me )

Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:53:42

mago

Hey, as I said before in the general talking forum, I found this mapmaker which is fantastic, because it's so damn stable and useful - I put some effort into it and now I have a much better understandement of the Doom map making process. Hoppefully, in the near future, this will also be an area in which I'll be able to help also. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Anyway, just to let you guys know what I came up with, in case some of you doesn't know this (this is specially true for RambOrc, as I remember you had lots of problems with textures in the City map). These are some simple tricks and rough modelling with sectors, but the point is that never before I was able to make this in such an easy way - I can correct the problems instantly and the engine is very solid - you can make just about any amateur mistake and the program will still work properly and let you correct it anytime. Some tests: Simple sector models (the texturing was done by hand of course <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> ): [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/throne.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] Light source and projected shadow trick [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/shading.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] The same [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/shading2.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] A big, ruined classic column (sector model - PS: don't mind the black slashs on the pic, the author stated those are harmless graphic bugs that won't affect the in game map - this is true for the other pics too) [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/brokencolumn1.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] Another angle [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/broken2.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] An "alien", gothic inspired project of massive column (simple sector modelling tools in DB) [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/gothiccolumn1.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/gothic2.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/gothic3.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] Easily done arcs-of-perfect-curve for a more traditional medieval look [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/moorish1.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/moorish2.jpg[/img:301h9pb8] [img:301h9pb8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/moorish3.jpg[/img:301h9pb8]
Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:49:46

Firebrand

WOW! Nice work Mago, this program seems to allow you to make some complex structures in a very easy way, I migh give it a try too! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> the work you are showing here has a lot of quality, I think that you'll be able to make maps in no time if you keep it up! it would be nice to see a map done by you in the near future <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> .
Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:41:21

RambOrc

Whoa really impressive... <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Since the source code is available, is there any chance Janis that you could make this editor capable of sloping and 3D floor creation as well?
Sat, 04 Dec 2004 01:36:36

mago

That would really be somthing, I guess the program would just be perfect. Just a note though, my enthusiasm might be due to the fact that I knew little to nothing about map making, before I got DB and read it's manual (which is awesomely easy to understand and comprehensive) - unlike WadAuthor, I could actually follow the tutorials without any problem, which inspired me for a few attempts on more sofistcated map scenery pieces. I don't know how experienced people will think of DB, but the 3D edit mode alone is such a powerful tool... Here's an example: I had the idea to make the ruined greek column, like a very small one I saw on a Dark Citadel's map, but much bigger, like the real ones. By creating sector inside sector and merge them to create the pieces, I just left the lines alone (so many sectors and floor heights are a killer sometimes), went to 3d mode, the program tells you visually which textures are missing, you just have to click on it and choose a texture from the list and you're done! Then, if you wish, use the arrow keys to move it on the x or y axis. For the column, I choose the external skin, pasted it on one of the linedefs, pointed at it and copied it, then just went on pointing to the other linedefs that were part of the same textured surface and pasted it just by clicking a selected key (V in my case). Then the same for the interior texture. Obviously, the patches were badly aligned and looked artificial due to the big number of sectors - but to get rid easily of the repeated texture effect, just point at one and press A - the machine will arrange them accordingly, boing the calculations necessary to link them together to form the continuos graphic surface they are supposed to be, no matter how many "breaks" here are. It's just too simple. If only Janis or the author can add the capacity to model slopes as easily as it is to modify the sectors' heights (3d mode), the three-dimensional sectors and the ability to handle and locate real 3d models (imported), this will be inmy eyes THE tool for Hexen's projects.
Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:29:37

Firebrand

It's good you found a good tool to make maps! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> as I told you in the beginning you only had to find a tool that you understand and could use easily, I'm so excited about it that I'm going to download it right now to see it myself <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , heh!
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 04:57:36

mago

Another building I made, something I wanted to test for a long time now - dome celilings. I remembered the romanic churches and their simple but effective cannon dome, thought it would be nice to see it simulated in game. While I was at it, I thought I should just test the arc galleries again (by setting two classic lateral naves around the main one), and point the "transcepto" (don't know the english term - the horizontal axis that cuts the main body and symbolizes the arms of Christ), with two additional chapels. I thought I could just add lots of details (even made some windows), but this is just testing, no need to waste any more time. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> General view: [img:31up8tu4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/church5.jpg[/img:31up8tu4] Main nave, regular view [img:31up8tu4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/Romanicchurch1.jpg[/img:31up8tu4] Same, but from above (dome detail - BTW, the dome isn't specially "smooth"; more sectors could be added, but it's so high, and you get the point anyway. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> ) [img:31up8tu4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/church2.jpg[/img:31up8tu4] View from the transcepto [img:31up8tu4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/church3.jpg[/img:31up8tu4] Main altar [img:31up8tu4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/church4.jpg[/img:31up8tu4] See you later bros.
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:42:47

dj_jl

[quote="RambOrc":20ox794a]Since the source code is available, is there any chance Janis that you could make this editor capable of sloping and 3D floor creation as well? No, it's written mostly in VisualBasic that I don't even have. Also remember that I'm now working in Linux. Also since on Linux there's maybe one good Doom editor (with very bad Hexen support) I have and idea to build one myself. Another project that I already started is XWadEd ([url:20ox794a]http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/xwaded) - a WinTex clone for Linux.
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:03:35

Stryker

Personally, I like WadAuthor more than DB.. For some reason I find WadAuthor to be easier to use.. While if Find Doom Builder to be pretty hard.. But thats just me.. Although I have used DB for some Doomsday editing, thats about all.
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:57:08

The 4th Class

I agree with Stryker - I prefer WadAuthor. I've tried quite a few other editors (including DB), but I still find WadAuthor is the choice for me. Though maybe it's because I'm just more used to it. BTW Those are awesome pics Mago! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:17:18

RambOrc

I don't know, I've been playing around a bit with DB and the 3D mode with the texturing is awesome, you'll never get anywhere with WadAuthor on a map like the old big town map I worked on so many years, I might dig it up from a backup DVD and see how fast it goes with this one.
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:27:55

The 4th Class

Unless...John Williston makes a 3D WadAuthor... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:45:26

mago

Yes, you guys are forgetting that it's pretty much impossible to visualize and calculate every texture sync by head when you have multi-lindef sectors such as the chapels on my church: Not only would you have to manually assign textures horizontly, but also vertically, since they have in this case different heights = total brain cracker. To me, aside from scripting, setting textures on complicated sectors meshes are probably the most difficult and boring task on level making, and it's just made so obvious and easy in DB that it's not even funny. I can make just about the model I want and just switch to 3d and go on painting the linedefs confortably... But anyway, that's just me - I guess I never got through the basic flaws I had while learning WadAuthor, that's why I gave up mapping so fast... Still, the lack of Vavoom support for DB is getting me a bit worried...
Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:49:28

mago

[quote="RambOrc":3f5ygu9y]I don't know, I've been playing around a bit with DB and the 3D mode with the texturing is awesome, you'll never get anywhere with WadAuthor on a map like the old big town map I worked on so many years, I might dig it up from a backup DVD and see how fast it goes with this one. RambOrc: Let me know if you find yourself wishing for that unique texture that's not available in ordinary Hexen (carpets, construction materials textures, details, etc.). I've been collecting a good number of free textures for later editting and this could be a reason to put some time into modding patches and flats.
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:50:14

dj_jl

You can get Vavoom config files for DB here.
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 13:55:06

mago

DJ, sorry, but I'm completely new to map making business - what those config files do? Where must I put them? While choosing the WAD for the Vavoom Hexen cfg should I put Hexen's iwad or the WAD0.wad from Hexen's Basev directory on Vavoom tree? With those config fiels will I be able to set slopes and 3d floors on DB? If so, could you explain or point me some tutorial? Thans anyway!
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:39:05

Firebrand

Just put them on the same directory as DB, then choose the Hexen config for them all and point it to the IWAD of the game (hexen.wad) and you are done, I think all of them have the Vavoom's features up to date, so that means you have all the sloping and 3d floors that you want, heh! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> . I'm going to try them right now!
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:03:27

mago

But I can't seem to notice any difference in the edditting options... <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:32:16

RambOrc

My prob was always rather that there were so many textures to sift through every time I wanted to put a new texture on a surface, I was thinking about making separate image wadfiles for separate map types and load for every map the needed one in the editor, that would speed up the process greatly (the original Hexen texture set consists up to maybe 2/3 of textures you never need in an ordinary map, like all those clockwork and animated sequences and stuff). As for 3D floors and the like, DB doesn't display them in 3D mode, which means maybe a good way to work with it all would be to first imagine the map in the head, than make a quick draft on paper, and then using that build the non-3D parts of it first, create the texturing and insert the slopes and 3D floors in the end. Dunno.
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:34:30

dj_jl

In available line special types you should see "3D Floor" and "Set sector contents!, in list of thing types there should be a group called "Slopes"
Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:55:53

mago

[quote="RambOrc":wafdmsox]My prob was always rather that there were so many textures to sift through every time I wanted to put a new texture on a surface, I was thinking about making separate image wadfiles for separate map types and load for every map the needed one in the editor, that would speed up the process greatly (the original Hexen texture set consists up to maybe 2/3 of textures you never need in an ordinary map, like all those clockwork and animated sequences and stuff). As for 3D floors and the like, DB doesn't display them in 3D mode, which means maybe a good way to work with it all would be to first imagine the map in the head, than make a quick draft on paper, and then using that build the non-3D parts of it first, create the texturing and insert the slopes and 3D floors in the end. Dunno. Damn it, spent a lot of time writting a big post and the IE let me down... Lost all the info... Anyway, in short, I suggested two things to maybe save you a little trouble: - Use the real-time copy and paste feature on DB (3d mode), which is great for fast touches. - Writting the names of the most used textures is also a good way to implement them, manually instead of going through the selection process. Another idea would be to actually make a reference table with all textures codenames, sizes and pics, for later consulting and manual editting, but that sounds like a huge amount of boring work... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Anyway, I got the idea of using multiple programs for building ands testing the maps - but could someone point me ANY document on slope creation? Is it the same as in Zdoom (so I can follow their tutorials)? What about 3d floors? Any info on those? BTW - can someone please explain me how to load custom textures on DB or some other program's library?
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:13:27

RambOrc

How can you bear that crap? Get Firefox today! <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/">http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/</a><!-- m --> Hey I just installed a new s/w firewall a couple of days ago that allows me to block programs from being started and I completely disabled IE, now no matter what kind of sneaky underhanded baster does what tricks, no matter how many unpatched holes there are in IE, no crap can start it at all any more... I stopped using it for surfing the web years ago anyway. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I still think splitting the textures into several different wadfiles would make editing a lot quicker. Slopes and 3D floors in Vavoom: just go to the Vavoom website, there is both documentation and an example map to be had. Loading custom textures: every time you open a map or create a new one, in the dialogue box there is an option to specify a wadfile for textures and flats.
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 01:23:01

mago

Yes, it's pretty crappy - I just didn't change the internet browser because I'm afraid to mess somtthing up and then not be able to use the net correctly... I know nothing about connections and settings, can't make mistakes as I'm not the only one using the pc. But I have to be brave and go for quality products instead of being stuck with it... <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> Still, some more advancements: I was finnally able to correctly create a texture PWAD (yes, that was my problem actually, create the patch in order for it to be recognized by DB - I was missing the lump names stuff, but thanks anyway) and put there a few examples of textures I was working one, based on that game Severance. I tried my best to edit them so they would fit visually better on Hexen's style of graphics, and made some testing on the church: IMO they don't look supperficial at all, but could use maybe a more dark tone, it's just a bit washed up. Some photos: [img:7lk8e5uy]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/sevtext1.jpg[/img:7lk8e5uy] [img:7lk8e5uy]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/sevtext2.jpg[/img:7lk8e5uy] As for the new textures: don't worry RambOrc, for those I will have to make the reference table I was talking about, mostly because I plan to create a good number of non conventional textures to be used as a single texture (and not a repeat of patches, like usual) for specific use - example a series of 4 complete patches to create a for sided house (one side with a window, one with the door entrance, another side with two windows and the back side wihout any entrance). This will require exact info, and shouldn't require too much work as I'll be handling them one by one anyway. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:00:09

dj_jl

In next version I'm planing to add support for ZDoom overloaded textures that allows defining of textures as single patches by putting them between TX_START and TX_END markers. As of slopes, ZDoom sloping special is also available.
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:25:41

RambOrc

Any chance you can upload that map? Looking at the screenshots it seems you've done very impressive arches already w/o slopes, more detailed than in the original Hexen, but I'd like to see it live if possible. p.s. downloading and installing Firefox will not mess up anything on the computer, it's not tied to the OS like shitty IE is.
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:07:03

mago

Sure I can, but you will see there's nothing to it, it's very simple. Probably what kept most of doing arcs were the math thinking needed to draw the circle line with the available sectors (changing their height accordingly), but with 3d mode you don't even need to thin much, if you don't want to make an exact semi circle, just go raising and lowering the different sectors by eye. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I'll upload the church and the others showed in the first page of the thread right away. But only check them in DB, they don't have player starts and probably carry some errors that I didn't bother correct mut might crash Hexen in game.
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:53:27

mago

Alright, finished uploading it - The file is called DBmaptest.zip and is located in Mago>DoomBuilder> . I put the wads plus their dbs files (which I don't know what means, but could be important so I included).
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:03:21

Firebrand

[quote="dj_jl":30sce07a]In next version I'm planing to add support for ZDoom overloaded textures that allows defining of textures as single patches by putting them between TX_START and TX_END markers. As of slopes, ZDoom sloping special is also available. I didn't know ZDoom had that, how it exactly works??
Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:18:11

dj_jl

[url:21xqlg6j]http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/index.php?title=TX_START

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