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Difficulty setting

Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:20:57

RambOrc

Ok next question up for vote: how should difficulty be increased? 1) More monsters, e.g. instead of 5 ettins and 2 green bulls in a room, you get 10 ettins and 5 green bulls. 2) Different (higher power) monster types, e.g. instead of 5 ettins and 2 green bulls in a room you get 5 centaurs and 2 slaughtaurs. 3) Supped-up (stronger) version of the same monsters as on the easier setting, e.g. instead of 5 ettins and 2 green bulls of class 1 (same HP/damage as in Hexen) you now get 5 ettins and 2 green bulls of class 2 (50% higher HP and damage as in Hexen).
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:28:14

RambOrc

This time I'm voting right away as on this issue I have a pretty clear stance: higher difficulty means basically more monsters, just like it did in Heretic and Hexen. This is one of the greatest strength of the games and the engine, you can literally have a crowd of dozens of monsters attacking you at once, the only code update we need is a smarter AI that makes monsters not get into each other's line of fire mindlessly (it's OK if they sometimes do, just not always). This also allows for a quicker and more consistent level design which is also more story bound (i.e. there are always the same kind of monsters in a place, regardless of the difficulty). Also, the supped up version of the monsters should appear during the progression of the game, not as part of a different difficulty. This way, the game is always the same, just the number of monsters is different. Since we are going with the character migration stuff, I think we should keep the 5 different difficulty settings and really distantiate them, i.e. difficulties 2, 3 and 4 should be easy, normal and hard, diff 1 should be super easy and diff 5 should be ultra brutal hard. In each part of the trilogy, the difficulty would go up one notch, i.e. the 3rd part of the trilogy on super easy (diff 1) would be as difficult as the 1st part was on medium (diff 3). This is to balance out the increase in lvl and the better gear of the player.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:04:24

Crimson Wizard

A very difficult decision for me. IMO answer would depend on a game situation. Besides, it is mapper, who sets difficulty flags on objects, thus in one place there may be more monsters, sometimes monsters may be substituted by higher beings. I think it would be more convenient. By the way, this method may include 3rd possibility as well, since we may make special ACS function that sets up creature level (e.g.), so that map designer could write difficulty-dependent script and set corresponding levels to creatures he wishes.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:15:49

RambOrc

This would be too much like every other RPG out there - IMO we have the chance to do something different here. RPG engines are bound by their own restrictions and system so they can't let you face 50 monsters at once. Our engine however can do that, at lvl 1 with a fighter you have to hit an ettin 3x for it to die, at lvl 20 you hit them once they are dead, at lvl 40 you hit so hard 3 ettins standing together die from one swipe of your sword. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I think this god complex was part of the coolness of KMOD, except for the bosses you just owned the monsters as you leveled up.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:41:12

Firebrand

I would go for the third option, it would make it easy to implement skill setiings IMO.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:06:23

RambOrc

One thing though with the third option - if you take the result of the other poll, you arrive at the situation where you have a game that you can start all over again after the end, keeping your char and his equipment and levels - but the monsters became tougher too so what's the point? It sounds too much like a Blizzard RPG where you grind the same boring stuff over and over again for no other reason but to get ever better gear. Which might be fine for an MMORPG but is definitely not what we want with Korax. Maybe it's only me but one thing I liked a lot about the old DOOM engine games how on higher difficulty levels you got more and more monsters to fight. That was the big fun, seeing how on hard I now can kill 500 monters in a map, not only 80 as on easy. Maybe the most important reason of all why the old DOOM engine games have such a following after so many years is exactly the huge mass of enemies, something no other game really offered ever since (games like Painkiller or Will Rock have tried it but due to a couple of settings they didn't do it good enough to replace the DOOM experience).
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:09:12

The 4th Class

Yes, a very difficult trichotomy indeed. My personal vote would go for a hybrid of #1 and #3, like harder skills would have more monsters, plus they would be a hairpiece stronger (though their strength would remain constant throughout the game, NEVER increasing as you level up - which I think diminishes the awesomeness of leveling up). The plus for options both #1 and #2, they can easily be implemented just on the mapping side, no programming needed. But deep down I think these two options go hand in hand, it's not one-or-the-other. Original Heretic and Hexen both utilised these two cases in the games, it was never "only just add more of the same monsters" or "only just replace weak enemies with stronger ones."
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:40:34

RambOrc

No, Heretic (and Hexen) didn't replace weaker monsters with stronger ones on higher difficulty settings - some of the additional monsters on the higher diff were of stronger types than the rest, i.e. they didn't replace the 5 ettins 2 green bulls with 5 brown bulls 2 slaughtaurs, they replaced the 5 ettins 2 green bulls with 8 ettins, 4 green bulls and 2 brown bulls.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:53:11

Ichor

How about mostly #1, but for higher difficulties, some monsters will be smarter? For instance, in the higher difficulties, it won't be so easy for the monsters to start infighting, and those that throw projectiles won't fire them at the target if there's another monster in the way. Also, how about a slow regeneration starting on #3 difficulty instead of higher health?
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:19:51

The 4th Class

[quote="RambOrc":uj8bvgmw]No, Heretic (and Hexen) didn't replace weaker monsters with stronger ones on higher difficulty settings - some of the additional monsters on the higher diff were of stronger types than the rest, i.e. they didn't replace the 5 ettins 2 green bulls with 5 brown bulls 2 slaughtaurs, they replaced the 5 ettins 2 green bulls with 8 ettins, 4 green bulls and 2 brown bulls. Now who's the geek and loser? <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> [quote="Ichor":uj8bvgmw]How about mostly #1, but for higher difficulties, some monsters will be smarter? For instance, in the higher difficulties, it won't be so easy for the monsters to start infighting, and those that throw projectiles won't fire them at the target if there's another monster in the way. Also, how about a slow regeneration starting on #3 difficulty instead of higher health? I feel the same way. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> BTW, when you say regeneration, do you mean their health slowly grows back, or they slowly respawn?
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:23:49

Ichor

True, but not for the stronger monsters or if you take a while to kill something.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:50:00

RambOrc

Respawn à la DOOM nightmare diff is out, respawn à la Hexen will be present in most maps.
Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:13:15

Ichor

[quote="The 4th Class":2qrrqb1h]BTW, when you say regeneration, do you mean their health slowly grows back, or they slowly respawn? I mean their health would be slowly restored as long as they're alive. Once dead, they stay dead.
Sat, 11 Aug 2007 22:40:52

Firebrand

Seeing the other posts here, I agree with 4th Class, we could have a combination of #1 and #3, IMO balancing things out and making every kind of user happier <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, as for regeneration, it could be specific for certain skill, monsters and/or situations.
Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:27:01

Crimson Wizard

I finally decided to agree with Firebrand (combo of #1 and #3).

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