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base engine limitations

Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:47:00

RambOrc

Been talking to SkyJake and found out that all those probs regarding insertion of the Mage/Cleric frames are partially engine limitations, this is from his mail: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
This is a bug in the sprite init code (R_InitSpriteDefs). I believe there is a working version in Doomsday Sources R3. The error happens because the original MAGE frames are initialized as well, even if only the new frames should be.
Another thing, it'd be cool to have translucent textures (like windows you can peek through), this is what he told me: <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> Theoretically if you dabble a bit with the texture code in Doomsday 0.99.6, you could have wall textures that have an alpha channel (w/full range 0..255). After all, the current masked textures like grates and such are, in fact, translucent textures with full alpha at the transparent pixels and no alpha elsewhere. <hr></blockquote> So the question to those on the team who have an idea about our code base, is any of this feasible to implement for SE?
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:42:00

Ichor

I'd love to be able to do that for my game, but I still don't know that much about coding.
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:06:00

RambOrc

Since you're using the same engine version if we succeed in making it you'll only have to paste it into your code. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:11:00

dj_jl

I could do that. I have this implemented in Vavoom and I could use the same line special making this directly portable to Vavoom. Just give me full source code and I'll do this.
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:36:00

RambOrc

I'm not sure what the full source code would be, or you mean the latest version?
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:08:00

dj_jl

I just downloaded the new sources archive and it includes everything I need. Thanks.
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:38:00

mago

But if the problem is in the engine, how could Ichor put the Heretic's sprites into Hexen, in his TC? It's very odd... Anyway, if it's the problem, can it be fixed? There's some way to put the sprites there? And I was thinking that new entries would be the problem (I mean, if we want to add like a dozen or more types of ordinary people, we would have to create new entries for them in the wad, since we couldn't replace itens or monsters sprites, right?) [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:42:00

RambOrc

The thing is even weirder, I tried your mage.wad with the original DOS Hexen and it crashed with an error, too. As for new entries, AFAIK it's not more complicated than replacing things. The Korax code already has a number of new item definitions since early 2001, if you've seen all those roofs, tables and chairs on the town screenshots, starting with version 0.2 they aren't sprite replacements but newly defined objects. Defining the "damage skin" sprites for the monsters e.g. shouldn't be too complicated, especially compared to adding them one by one to the wadfile. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:16:00

dj_jl

I mean the source of the base engine. The source archive on koraxdev includes only source for korax.dll and there's no source needed to compile doomsday.exe and other DLL files.
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:45:00

RambOrc

I always thought that sources given out by Tzar Sectus and Camper have all files, since there were several changes to doomsday.exe itself as well. Strange... did you check the new source I uploaded today whether that has all the files?
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:57:00

mago

Well, maybe it's a problem with the wad I made for the sprites. Don't you want all the bmp files instead? Is there any possibility that the paint program could be the responsable? I'm using a program called Idraw 3 Chara Maker, and MGI PhotoSuite for cut and paste opperations. I don't know, maybe it didn't use the right pallete, or something like that (although I'm pretty sure it does, since there's no difference in colors from the pallete it shows and the hexen's graphics and things). [img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:00

RambOrc

No, the prob isn't with the images. As long as it's a 256-colors BMP file, it will work fine with modern Hexen source ports, they don't need to use the same palette as DOS Hexen did. As for the wadfiles you sent me, I took a quick look at the mage one and it did look alright to me (though I'm not much of a guru on this topic neither).
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:15:00

mago

I did like it is said in Wintex help, and like Ichor said (with the SS_START and SS_END) so...I don't get it. [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:17:00

dj_jl

I just uploaded new binaries to the koraxdev in kmod22patch_stuff. It includes my bug fixes and the following changes: - The default value for maxzone now is 64 megs, -maxzone option is not needed anymore. - Replaced loading of jhexen.wad with loading of korax.wad (also is included in the archive). - Possibility to replace sprite frames, exactly like Vavoom does this. Now replaced mage graphics does work fine. Have fun! [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:45:00

mago

That's really, REALLY cool, man! Hey RambOrc, now there's no excuse to not putting my low-quality sprites in the game. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] (Just kidding) [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:04:00

RambOrc

Hey this sounds really good, gotta try it. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I got a mail from someone today, he told me the game crashed every time he tried to go through the first portal. I'd say let's push out the patch release date until stuff is thoroughly tested. I don't want any KMOD version over 2.2 if possible...
Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:08:00

RambOrc

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mago: <strong>Hey RambOrc, now there's no excuse to not putting my low-quality sprites in the game.</strong><hr></blockquote> ...and low-quality they are, [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] (j/k!!!!!) Seriously, what about adding a new sprite or 2 to KMOD 2.2, would it make sense (like a shopkeeper)? p.s. quote of the day, just read in a mail I got today from a KMOD fan: "the unpowered Sword of Asskicking" [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:00

mago

I think the idea is really good. Maybe you could put the shopkeeper in each shop, and when you "use" him, a table would appear, showing the prices for each item. As to the comment: yes, he is right! The sword is very, very well done (a great work from Tsar Sectus), and I loved the 3 hits you deliver in one blow, which added a great effect of an arc movement.
Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:48:00

dj_jl

* loads rocket launcher and aims to the SkyJake * Hrrrrrrrrr! Archive with new doomsday.exe has been uploaded.
Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:04:00

dj_jl

Another patch is up there for you. This time it's korax.dll. It fixes loading of version 2 GL-Nodes and that authomaticly fixes all problems with automap and a LOTS (if not all) crashes when loading a level. Now, still known bugs: - floating barrels in swamp level of Shadow Wood. Is there something else? Not a bugs: - Fire damage for red wand - is it needed or not? For me it's trivial to change this. - Experience for killing summoned monsters - that's cheating. I'm against this.
Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:54:00

RambOrc

On 2nd thought, adding new graphics to KMOD2 is not so good an idea... I mean, it's a finished product as of 2.0, we're only bugfixing it. From your idea I just realized adding sprites would mean other changes as well, which would mean it's not KMOD2 any more but a KMOD 2.5 which is basically a KMOD3 but doesn't have enough new features to be called so, etc. etc... bad PR. I'd say let's keep the new pics for SE, if you'll be able to finish all images planned this far, the game will really rock. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
loads rocket launcher and aims to the SkyJake
what's the prob with doomsday.exe? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] New patch: you mean now I can use GLBSP w/o the -v1 (or whatever it was) parameter? floating barrels: it's not a bug, it's a feature ROFL... the fact that the barrels are in the sky has 2 reasons: - the original Raven mapper made a mistake and added a Z value to those barrels - the Korax engine redefined the object "barrel", it now doesn't fall under gravity, it remains always at the Z value given to it (the reason is so that barrels can be stacked on top of each other, see one of the screenshots in the Scattered Evil section). The solution? Make a custom build for KMOD2 where you change the barrel's object definition so that it falls under gravity. Once the last KMOD2 build is out and the final KMOD2 source code is up on SourceForge, just change it back so they float again... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Red wand: if you can do it, please PLEASE do it! LOL... I really love that idea, we'd even extend it in SE, where all fire weapons would do special fire damage besides the normal hit. Summoned monsters and EXP: AFAIK Camper already fixed the prob in 2.1 --- or the fix is in the pre-2.2 he did, all those changes are up on the server in a TXT file, haven't you seen it? It's called changes_bycamper.txt or similar. At least he told me he made a fix, he took a better approach to the problem: if a monster summoned by you kills a monster, YOU instantly get the EXP from the killed enemy. Thus your monster won't suck into itself the EXP of other monsters, and thus you don't need to slay it just for that. In this way, I also agreed that you don't deserve EXP for killing your summoned monster. OK, I think I answered everything, else just re-put the Qs. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:08:00

Ichor

Do those barrels land on top of other barrels or do they fall through them and land on the ground (thus making them unstackable)?
Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:17:00

dj_jl

They should fall on top of others.
Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:15:00

mago

I'm back from a school journey. It was really cool, but I'm REALLY tired, and about to collapse (6 hours of sleep in two nights). [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Anyway, RambOrc, could you type a detailed list (again!) of everything I must do? Just for use as a guide. [img]images/smiles/icon_cool.gif[/img]
Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:01:00

dj_jl

OK, just uploaded a new archive with new doomsday.exe and korax.dll. In doomsday.exe I fixed "black sectors" bug (you can see it in Desolated garden). korax.dll now has burning red wand and falling barrels. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Oh - korax.wad includes a non-updated MAPINFO, so this also must be fixed. Yesterday after fixing GL-Nodes bug I started to play it with fighter and today I already finished it. And I must say that he's a REAL killing machine (compared to mage). Also killing all bosses was VERY fast to do. Oh - the main thing that I wanted to say is that it didn't crash at all. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
On 2nd thought, adding new graphics to KMOD2 is not so good an idea...
Agreed. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
what's the prob with doomsday.exe? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
In some places he uses standard memory allocation routines without checking the returned value. And if allocation fails (because of GL-Nodes buf this can happen) attempts to use a NULL pointer will crash. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
New patch: you mean now I can use GLBSP w/o the -v1 (or whatever it was) parameter?
Yessssss! <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Summoned monsters and EXP: AFAIK Camper already fixed the prob in 2.1 --- or the fix is in the pre-2.2 he did, all those changes are up on the server in a TXT file, haven't you seen it? It's called changes_bycamper.txt or similar. At least he told me he made a fix, he took a better approach to the problem: if a monster summoned by you kills a monster, YOU instantly get the EXP from the killed enemy. Thus your monster won't suck into itself the EXP of other monsters, and thus you don't need to slay it just for that. In this way, I also agreed that you don't deserve EXP for killing your summoned monster.
There's no such thing in 2.1 and not in changes_bycamper.txt. But I already fixed this in the first build. There also was a bug with random numbers in the experience stuff that I also fixed. But this means that all demos will run out of sync and must be re-recorded. [ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Janis Legzdinsh ]</p>
Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:56:00

dj_jl

Ouch. They fall to the ground. At first it seamed strange, because in Vavoom I have tried this in Doom 2 and they stacked nicely, but I quickly realised why and got them stacking. So Ichor, if you also want this, all that you need to do is add a MF2_PASSMOBJ flag to the barrels.
Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:38:00

Ichor

I know. I asked because I had considered using stacked barrels in my game, and I had the very same problem.
Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:07:00

RambOrc

The barrels fall into each other in Hexen, that's why we started tweaking them in the first place... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
But this means that all demos will run out of sync and must be re-recorded.
Hey that ain't funny at all... It took me half a day or more (and a lot of energy) to create those demos, especially the one for the cleric... it's a LOT of work and I don't want to make them anew... [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
Anyway, RambOrc, could you type a detailed list (again!) of everything I must do? Just for use as a guide.
AFAIK it's just the damage skins for all monsters, as many full-animated NPCs as you can make (at least it should include the shopkeeper you sent me a front look of, the innkeeper from Sylon, and the blondie you have a couple of frames made, and a normal citizen would be important as well, more NPC types should be added later if all other stuff is finished and there's still time left), and the talk animations to all NPCs. OK, it's definitely not a "just" list... [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

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