Post here all suggestions regarding weapons/spells/items (remember, some items will be classified as weapons this time). A couple of guidelines: - #1 is always a melee weapon that doesn't use mana - #9 is always Discs of Repulsion, it replenishes its stock by picking up Discs (works like ammo and not like artifact) - #10 is always Flechette (working differently with every class), its stock works the same was as #9 - #2-8 are "regular" weapons which can be melee weapons, ranged weapons, offensive spells, defensive spells, or things that were items/artifacts in Hexen/Heretic (like a Maulotaur figurine) - #2 and #5 uses blue mana, #3 and #6 green mana, #4 and #7 red mana (whereas always the smaller number uses way less of the mana and is a significantly weaker weapon), #8 uses mana of all 3 types in large amounts and is a kind of ultimate weapon with tremendous power (like a BFG that can make max 2 but maybe only 1 shot with full ammo, so that you won't use it too much - alternately, it could be like in UT where you have to find a Redeemer in a secret location, use it for one shot then have to pick up on again). - Weapon #1 is already fixed for all character classes (unless you people want it to change): Fighter Gauntlets (same as in Hexen), Cleric Mace (same as in Hexen), Mage Wooden Staff (the one from Heretic), Heretic Gauntlest of the Necromancer (the other one from Heretic), Marine (if implemented) Chainsaw (from DOOM), Hero (Witchaven Character, if implemented) Dagger (originally weapon #2 in Witchaven).

OK here some of my suggestions... even if weapons are implemented now, they can be changed any time later in the development, based on playtest experiences and fan feedback. I just want to give a kickstart to ideas so that initial weapon sets can be implemented ASAP so that testing can start and 0.1 can be released as fast as possible (Camper doing the work on KA 0.1 solves the prob Moose would face with maintaining 3 different codebases simultaneously). Mage: #2 grey wand, #3 red wand, #4 Frost Shards, #5 Arc of Death, #6 Maulotaur figurine, #7 Bloodscourge, #8 Horrible Pain. Heretic: #2 Elvenwand, #3 Crossbow, #4 Dragon's Claw, #5 Morph Ovum, #6 Hellstaff powered up version, #7 Phoenix Rod powered up version, #8 Fire Mace powered up version. Cleric: #2 Serpent Staff, #3 Healing, #4 Firestorm, #5 Icewand, #6 Spirits Within, #7 Phoenix Rod, #8 Wraithverge. Fighter: #2 Timon's Axe, #3 Hammer (melee only), #4 Sword (melee only), #5 Hellstaff, #6 Hammer (ranged), #7 Sword (ranged), #8 Berserker. Marine (if implemented): #2 sidearm, #3 shotgun, #4 machine gun, #5 plasma gun, #6 double barreled shotgun, #7 rocket launcher, #8 BFG. Hero (Witchaven character) (if implemented): #2 short sword, #3 Morning Star, #4 magic missiles, #5 long sword with shield, #6 Fireball, #7 Longbow (sniper weapon), #8 Disintegrate.

These suggestions apply only to the Flechette: For the original Hexen classes, they all work the traditional way. For the Heretic, it first behaves like the Cleric's Flechette, only the smoke is a very pale violet. When a player passes this pale violet cloud, the overall brightness of every room for that player is decreased by about 60%, creating a blinding effect. It'll wear off in 30 seconds. For the Marine, it acts sort of like the Fighter's Flechette, only it travels much farther and only hits the ground once. The damage radius is also increased, and objects at ground zero are either killed on the spot or pushed away by the shockwave. For the Hero, it first behaves like the Nitrogolem's face missiles from Heretic - homing in on the nearest enemy, but this time is destroyed if any player attacks it. When it hits a player, a highly explosive mine orbits them for about 3 seconds. If a player moves, shoots, turns around, or activates an item while the mine is orbitting them, the mine will kill them (or explode with massive health loss). However, if the player remains dormant, the mine will begin to shrink, and the smaller the mine, the smaller it's explosion. When the mine finally dies off, the player is free to frag once again.

[quote="I":5e0rg2um]For the Hero, it first behaves like the Nitrogolem's face missiles from Heretic - homing in on the nearest enemy, but this time is destroyed if any player attacks it. When it hits a player, a highly explosive mine orbits them for about 3 seconds. If a player moves, shoots, turns around, or activates an item while the mine is orbitting them, the mine will kill them (or explode with massive health loss). However, if the player remains dormant, the mine will begin to shrink, and the smaller the mine, the smaller it's explosion. When the mine finally dies off, the player is free to frag once again. I've been having second thoughts; maybe something a little simpler. Scratch out the part about the mine. Instead, it could just act like the destructable face missile.

These are good ideas 4th Class, I hope they can be done...

Probably, a good idea would be to do something like Ichor did and support the use of the Tome of Power for every magical weapon, so we can get all from each, not being limited to one type of power or another. It could be a bonus item, placed randomly in secret\difficult places, I don't know... Just a suggestion. I don't agree with the use of healing spell, it may make the Cleric to hard to kill. Unless it's something like the healing gear of the Predator in Alines vs Predator game (it takes a few seconds to set it up, the monster scream giving away his position, can't fire any weapon while at it, and uses a LOT of energy (in the case, Mana), healing to the maximun, but just once. Spirits Within spell is also complicated, because it demands corpses to be effective, and that might not be the case in small games with few people. The hammer isn't a very good weapon for close combat, because it's too slow. Unless we manage to improve it's power to throw the enemy away upon impact, we should sutdy other options other than make it a stand-alone weapon. Another thig: isn't the morph ovum too powerful to be the heretic's 5th weapon? Maybe it should be the last, one-hit-one-kill weapon. Just some superficial opinions (for now). ~;)

I just couldn't put together 48 good enough weapon ideas, that's all. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

[quote="mago":2rn4idkj]The hammer isn't a very good weapon for close combat, because it's too slow. Unless we manage to improve it's power to throw the enemy away upon impact, we should sutdy other options other than make it a stand-alone weapon. We could always make the melee hammer a bit lighter, so the fighter would be able to swing faster. Or instead have two hammers, one for each hand...

[quote="RambOrc":2jtvdo6k]I just couldn't put together 48 good enough weapon ideas, that's all. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> LOL That's why I didn't made any suggestion, only criticysms, because it's a very hard job. But don't worry, those were a good base to start thinking. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

I'd rather if every player classes dispose with same weapon's arsenals. Like in the Heretic (every weapon has too alt-fire with a magic book) Mainly because of maps making. It would be very very easier <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

LOL I guess you've missed something - editing-wise, there are only 6 weapons in all, #3-#8. There is only one weapon #3 object, if a player walks over it, he picks up the weapon #3 of his class. Same for ammo. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Camper should modify the standard Vavoom Hexen WadAuthor config file to add these items.

I know, RambOrc. I'm waiting for this wadauthor configuration file, which you talk about. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

LOL kick Camper's ass, it's him who can give you this (I don't have it neither). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> In the meantime, you can start adding lots of mana of all 3 colors to your maps (unlike in Hexen, in KA adding only red mana means you don't have ammo for 4 weapons). Also, lots of Flechettes and Discs of Repulsion are desired too. At the same time, you can remove items that aren't recognized by KA, like the Maulotaur figurine (best demand a list from Camper waht is supported and what is not). This way, you could nearly completely optimize your maps for KA by the time you get the config file for the weapons (currently, AFAIK weapons #2 and #3 of the 3 classes are used as substitutes for the 6 weapons BTW, meaning you can already now place all pickup weapons - just discard the #4 weapon pieces).

Sir, yes Sir. Doin as requested: I uploaded a karena.wcf into my directory. Disabled things not supported, changed weapon sprites and namings. For full visual support specify karena.wad as an external PWAD with graphics in WadAuthor.

Nice job. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Can you also post a quick list of what artifacts are working in KA and which aren't (yet)?

Working: Pickup Crystal vial (10) Quartz flask (25) Mystic urn (100) Krater of might Powerup Boots of speed Icon of the defender Mana Flechette Disc of repulsion Not Working: Porkalator Torch Chaos device Wings of wrath Dark servant Dragonskin bracers Banishment device Mystic ambient incant

The bracers should increase Armor Points by 40, the rest can be discarded. There should be two new items we have discussed with Camper a short time ago: the Pi Power and the Pi Damage. Pi Power gives you 3 extra levels, and Pi Damage increases the damage of all your weapons by 3.14.

Hmm, just a small question for Camper or Ramborc, the combined mana item is now a red mana item, the sprites for it are done and already in the WAD file, is the combined mana thing be into the game or I can rename the sprite to represent the red mana?

Uhm I'm not sure I get what you mean?

Actually the combined mana item is the red mana item, because of this, it uses the same sprite name, I thought it would be a new item and use another name, when I made the sprites for it I named it MAN4**, but when I saw it was the same sprite name I renamed it to the normal name (which is the one used in the wad file I uploaded).

Could you post a pic of the new mana item?

If you check the new wad file I uploaded is the one used for the combined mana...

I have a nice idea for a cleric spell: Wraithform. Remember how the projectiles tend to fly through "iconized" cleric, as he fades in and out, in, out... ? Make it the same with one exception: cleric wouldn't be invicible all the time, just 50% of the time (when he fades out - no weapon can hit him and projectiles fly through him). I think it would be cool multiplayer spell, but obviously a high level one with high mana usage. Another cool thing to do would be reducing the gravity for wraithform cleric, if possible.... To make him wraithlike :-) I also think giving the cleric healing is unnecessary. Cleric doesn't mean "healer". It's some kind of (low-level) priest. How do you know the cult of Hexen is all about flowers, rainbows and unicorns ? Perhaps it's about serpents (the wand, you know), death, or child pornography ?

The Cleric's Healing and the Mage's Maulotaur Spell are going to be discarded from the game, the reason they are still in is because there is no better weapon done yet. As for the Wraith Form, it could be done similar to the Ghost form of some monsters in Heretic, i.e. only with certain weapons can he be hit.

I plan on using this a little later on, but it could be good here. I still haven't come up with a decent name yet, but let's call it the Fire Dragon for now. It's essentially a fiery (?) flying snake...thing (I may use the Iron Lich's fire attack as part of it's body) seeks out a target, and like the Heresiarch's bouncing skulls, it won't dissipate when it hits a wall. When it hits an enemy, it will cut right through it, and since its body is very long and it will act like the Fire Wave, the damage could really pile up over the next couple of seconds.

Hey why get rid of the healing spell? I thought it was a great idea. [quote="B0rsuk":y6q5o9qk]How do you know the cult of Hexen is all about flowers, rainbows and unicorns ? Perhaps it's about serpents (the wand, you know), death, or child pornography ? Just what are you getting at?

Heh I just thought of a really cool weapon that could be useful in closed areas, but maybe not as much in an open field. The Ring Of Force would act like the Fighter's gauntlets, only they inhale mana like oxygen because they're so powerful. When you punch another player with the ring, that player goes airborn 30 degrees from the ground and travels 512 units, then returns to the ground at a steeper angle. The player would lose a lot of health three times: first when he's actually punched, second if he hits any ceiling at the peak of flight, and finally when he hits the ground.

Why does exactly the Poison Breath fly soo slow ? I have lots of trouble killing anything with it. I presume you also have more than enough time to simply Repulse it and laugh at poor cleric...

I miss some [color=red:2gehk43a]lethal[/color:2gehk43a] long range weapon. Simply SNIPER RIFLE, with zoom of course <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Chaingun is the sniper rifle of DooM. Seriously, first 2 bullets never spread.

The Witchaven character which is still under work is planned to have a bow which will have sniper function (i.e. you can zoom it in and hit accurately).