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Whoa check this out Crimson Wizard!

Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:12:46

The 4th Class

What's your opinion on this? <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->
Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:20:36

Crimson Wizard

Many things told about Stalin's crimes during Chrustchev's so-called "reabilitation", and then even more during Gorbatchev's "Perestroyka" and first 90-ies, - are false. Currently there are many historical works (I mean books, articles) reviewing and investigating period of Stalin's reign, which demonstrate this.
Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:25:49

Crimson Wizard

As for Putin... aaah. don't ask, my answer will be unprintable <!-- s:x --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_mad.gif" alt=":x" title="Mad" /><!-- s:x --> .
Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:39:47

RambOrc

Comparing Stalin 1:1 to Hitler is wrong. He is somewhere between Hitler and Churchill (who also caused the death of millions, even though nobody talks about it).
Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:37:46

The 4th Class

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Churchill did not directly point his finger at select civilians and say, "Kill them." But I do remember the story of when they cracked encrypted Nazi intercommications code, and read that they were going to invade British soil, he decided not to warn the general public in hopes the Nazis wouldn't realize their code was cracked. Am I right? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> O and just to be clear, the article compared Stalin to Hitler, not me.
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:31:36

RambOrc

I didn't say you compared them to each other. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for Churchill, he sentenced countless British men to death with "strategic decisions", not to mention the dead civilians in the UK and the even more dead civilians on the colonies (most of them not Brits, so Western history books don't even mention them). But then again, US bombing raids on big German cities like Hamburg and Dresden (places with no military targets, it was psychological warfare, copied from the Nazis) killed way more German civilians than the German bombings of England a couple of years earlier. The Germans invented terrorism by bombing raids against civilians, but the US copied the idea during WW II and has used it ever since all over the world.
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:53:52

The 4th Class

Hehe, I'd be careful with the way you phrase your argument RambOrc: it almost seems like you're saying the Nazis were the lesser of two evils. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:12:12

RambOrc

If you concentrate on Europe, they weren't. If you concentrate on the colonies in Africa and Asia, WWII and the Nazis was actually a good thing, because it broke all power of the UK and France and does resulted in the freeing of all colonies. "Good" and "bad" are tricky concepts in history.
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 13:37:37

Crimson Wizard

[quote="The 4th Class":2ae4t0ms]Correct me if I'm wrong, but Churchill did not directly point his finger at select civilians and say, "Kill them." Stalin usually didn't as well. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> except for some extra situations like Trozky's asassination.
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:35:37

RambOrc

In the end, from the big powers of WW II, France and the Soviet Union had the saving grace of having been attacked, whereas Germany, Japan and the US didn't have this excuse for waging war... the UK being somewhere in between (they might not have been attacked if they didn't declare war on Germany and ship troops into France).
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:34:50

The 4th Class

Well would you rather have Neville Chamberlain as PM, issuing Munich Agreement after Munich agreement to the point where Hitler's empire spanned from Portugal to China? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:36:34

RambOrc

Actually, Chamberlain showed fatal weakness and thus encouraged a war on England instead of working against it.
Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:51:52

The 4th Class

Like I said earlier, I didn't study history, but I can tell you it was this "fatal weakness" that won the war. Besides, after Hitler invaded Poland it became obvious they couldn't try diplomacy any longer. PS: It's nice having such intellectual topics like these. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Sat, 02 Sep 2006 00:27:03

RambOrc

I actually did study history. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> And the fatal weakness of Chamberlain (or rather, of the French and Britisch governments) was what allowed the war to start in the first place. From 1936 to 1939, these two governments made a row of mistakes that made the German government ever more confident until the point where they felt safe to to wage a war.
Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:03:15

The 4th Class

Such as?
Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:51:01

RambOrc

Letting the German army occupy the Rheinland in 1936 which was a demilitarized zone, annecting Austria in 1938 and giving Germany parts of the Czech Republic. While they did it kind of out of guilt for the decisions made in 1918, it was too little too late and the only result was to show the German government that they aren't willing to wage a war if avoidable at any cost. Actually, the foundations of the upcoming WW II were laid right at the end of WW I when the French and English governments made absolutely unfair demands and forced losing states (Germany, Austria, Turkey) to give up lots of territories and population. They put such an economic penalty on Germany that it had to result in total catastrophe for the economy, and when Germany couldn't pay the tribute after a couple of years, in 1923 French soldiers occupied the most important industrial zone of Germany to scavenge everything they could and ship it off to France.
Sat, 02 Sep 2006 04:04:10

The 4th Class

Ok, thanks for the 101. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And sorry to give you a hard time, I just wanted to make sure you could actually defend your arguments and not just spill out generic unprovable-undisprovable jargon all the time. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> P.S. Isn't it like 5 AM in Switzerland? What ever are doing up so early? (or so LATE? <!-- s\:D/ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_dance.gif" alt="\:D/" title="Dancing" /><!-- s\:D/ -->).
Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:17:35

Crimson Wizard

Hehe, seems you change to discuss WWII instead of theat article. Cannot add anything here yet.

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