Hmm, this thread would mainly go to Ramborc, but everyone can post their opinion here too! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think we have a lot of things to do for SE, but I also think that KMod 3 development doesn't has anything fresh for the people to see AFAIK, so I propose you to drop that and to continue with KMod 4 (TCS), it has some advantages, for example, we will be working on a new project for the people who are following the project and we would be advancing with SE development at the same time (same codebase: Vavoom engine), also while Moose is developing the code, Stryker and you (Ramborc) could start converting maps from the original Hexen or those alpha maps for SE, if you think it's a lot of work, then my next suggestion would be to split the work as we have many mapping capable hands (me, Ramborc, Mago, Stryker, 4th Class, DarkRaven, even Moose could help on this), I think it's better to spend a year developing KMod 4 than to take a year for KMod 3 and don't have anything great and spend another year with KMod 4 and reduce the amount of things for SE because lack of time, that's my personal opinion, I'm not forcing you to do it my way, you can all evaluate the possibilities and make an opinion on this, we all are a team, so I think the best option we have is to work all at once on everything we can to make the development of SE easier and smaller in time.

1) Kmod3 development has been dropped ages ago, the little work Moose accepted to do should take 1-2 hours at most and then it's done forever. 2) SE and TCS (the name kmod4 has been dropped quite fast, not making any sense) is basically the same game - anything done for "SE" can be released either in TCS or later in SE (if they won't become one game anyway, basically the only real difference between the SE and the TCS concept is that the first starts its story after Hexen's ended, and the second includes the Hexen story either at the beginning or in between). 3) We've got basically two projects going on: a multiplayer FPS and a single-player RPG-FPS. The first is Korax Arena and what it consists of is pretty clear by now, taken the last beta I'd say it could be released soon as an official version (unless there'll be a new Vavoom netcode before Summer). The other project you can call Korax' Heritage, SE, TCS or whatever you want, it's basically the same thing. At one point hopefully we'll reach a state where there's actually something to be released. Whether it'll be a TCS or an SE or a mixture of both is yet to be seen. I'd suggest: 1) A discussion determining the near future of KA (i.e. whether there'll be a new netcode soon and thus also new game modes, or whether the current stuff should be bugfixed, polished and balanced and released as a DM/TDM game for LAN and single machines with bots. I mean already the new classes/weapons/maps/artwork/music makes it a one of a kind thing, even with only DM and TDM - not to forget football, LOL). 2) Everyone to work on what they feel urge to or are best at for SE/TCS/whatever, it's way too early yet to even try to determine what shape it takes. I personally would opt for releasing something that uses all the good parts of Hexen and Deathkings, but leaves out the crappy parts (like the complexity of the Seven Portals hub should be reduced greatly, it's IMO too boring and complicated, and that right at the beginning of the game too). The story could start with some custom maps and a bit of a custom storyline and advance into the original Hexen storyline. Hubs like Shadow Wood should not only be included to the last pixel, they should IMO even be added to, being awesome and milestones of fantasy gaming at all. OTOH the Necropolis hub e.g. is quite thrown-together, don't you think? OK, I'm digressing... the point is, I still think we should start with an "SE" that's a "TCS" (the final name will be given I guess once the game is close to finish), i.e. an RPG that includes the good parts of the Hexen and Deathkings story, but gives it a twist or too, starts earlier and ends later and has all the time in-between custom maps too and uses heavily altered original maps (like the awesome mod Firebrand did for Winnowing Hall). It should also include new monsters, new weapons and spells, NPCs, shops and similar. Depending on how fast what departements work, it might be a short first part of the trilogy, or one game itself. It's still open. To sum it up, I suggest right now to regard KA as the main project and the RPG as the side project. KA development will obviously be finished way sooner, and hopefully by that time at latest the RPG material will reach an amount and maturity that serious building of the game can commence on all levels.

Well when I manage to get my network working again I should be able to start some work, no netowrk means no access to my files being held on my second PC for when I reformatted to install XP. But yeah, KMod3 should be a simple job I think, may even be done. Can't remember. Then KA and KH.

To tell you the truth, I have been focusing all my energy on art work designed for the future RPG universe, for quite some time now. That's why I've been colecting dozens of textures and flats, researching a bit on history, gathering visual references and trying to build different databeses for future development, specially regarding new sprites, npc's and monsters. Also I've been working on my mapping skills for this, to be able to help on the project I feel will be the best and a culmination to all the work done so far. I got all the points here and agree we must focus entirely on the main structures here, KA and TSP. And answering to RambOrc's question, I strongly believe that aiming for a near initial release rather than waiting would be much better project-wise, because it would mean another stepping stone for the team, and having KA out, even if still subject to future improvements (new game-types, new net code,etc) would also give a better sense of what's done and what isn't, it sometimes gets very confusing (for instance, as hard as I try, I can't actually remember what needs to be done for Kmod3). Artwork wise I think we still need some HUD spells, but that could be taken care of relatively soon, as long as there isn't many of them. The point is, KA is very interesting, but I'm really anxious to get to work on the rpg!!! Still, I have other question: Maybe I've picturing it all worng, but while I understand the point in viewing them as one, isn't SE conceptually different from TSP? - If my memory isn't betraying me, what we set up to do in SE was to gather all maps that were "scattered" in obscurity and give them a single purpouse, episode-like, telling the story of the secret minion lead by the uber-heresiarch (nice Nietzche reference), and make the plot develop inside moddified maps that would otherwise be dumped (as they are all based on Hexen's original engine and didn't use any of Vavoom's features). - Serpent power was less defined, but i was pictured it as a stand-alone, total conversion loosely based on Hexen's story, or just ambiented inside it's world, that has yet to be given a detailed plot, but would be much closer to a game like Betrayal at Kondror or Antara, but based solely on 3d fps system.

LOL I see confusion reigns in this part of the world... <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> - Nothing new will be added to kmod3 any more, what you're talking about has been dropped long ago. No new spell animations, no spellbook, no journal for kmod3. - I wasn't talking about TSP but TCS, which is not the same. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> - You can already work on the RPG, there is nothing to say you can't. Build maps for it, create NPCs/whatever. Firebrand should be able to add any new monsters/spells/weapons/whatever to a plain Vavoom install so that you can test things in-game. - The TSP concept I still like a lot (the Betrayal in Antara like gameplay), but I started being a bit more realistic lately so while the idea greatly interests me, it's not on our current roadmap (nor is the coop mod in case you haven't noticed). As you also see, I've switched from pre-announcing projects that never even start to withholding info until the project is actually done (KA is still not officially announced, if you don't visit the KA subforum here, you won't even know there's such a thing). Any Qs I didn't answer, just point them out to me and I will.

I've finally managed to get my bloody network running again, so with any luck I'll have KMod3 actually released to the public soon, if I can remember why I haven't already.

That's cool Moose! if you need anything, just ask and we all try to help.

I've, *gasp* touched KMod3, prolonged absence from it seems to have let me recover slightly, and I've been having a bash at the expmodifier but unfortunatally to no avail. I'll also give the journal a small look over, see if I can get it semi compleat, probably skipping the quests if anything. But I'll keep you updated.

Throw away the journal, it's not that important. There'll be one in TCS anyway, why code it for an old engine too.

Right ho, concider it off my list, I've just finished the ExpModifier and tested it out. Even better, it works. I'll look over the old beta thread, and see if theres anything else to fix up, then I'll see about releasing this thing finally.

Those are good news Moose! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Does anyone have the old internal Beta that was DK ready? Or shall I try and dig it out of my archives. I've fixed a few things that where mentioned in the Public Beta Thread but all thats left would just be tedious tweaking and more difficult bugs. But for now things should be fine-ish.

I have an old beta myself somewhere in my files, how can I know if it's DK ready or not?

If it has a batch for playing DK, I might just try getting into my other PC, easier said than done though <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> . Hopefully this'll lead to new greater things like KA0.3 <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> .

Nope, the version I have doens't has any batch files, just the executable and DLL's <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> . I hope you are able to find it in your PC Moose, the faster we make this release, the faster we will be able to start something funnier for everyone <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> .

I'll get onto it soon, I'll just have to get on using Linux and then see if I can use my USB flash drive. Guess I'll need to swap one of these monitors back <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> . I'll probably have this done in a little while, fb if your on #Korax later I'll talk to you there, ciao.

Wehay, success. Kmod3 is about realy for distribution I think, I'll give it the once over tonight, make sure all the shops are accessable, stuff like that, then I'll either let you guys give it a test aswell or just release it publicly straight away, with news posts both here and on ModDB <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> .

I take back what I said, we're missing convo files for the DKShops, should I just leave these? Or does someone want to make them while I continue testing a few things.

Ramborc, why don't you do another senile mage? you are good at it, lol <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> .

I still say we need a Rambo NPC, heh heh heh.

Yes, it's really needed, lol <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

[quote="Firebrand":ht7c4vnb]Ramborc, why don't you do another senile mage? you are good at it, lol <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> . Well all those years ago when I asked Moose to do it for me, I was very short on time, but now a decade later I find I've completed so many projects that I now once again have time for this, so yes if I don't forget I could do the talk. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> [quote="Moose":ht7c4vnb]I still say we need a Rambo NPC, heh heh heh. You want a Rambo NPC? Let's invent the RPC then (RPC = Rambo NPC). <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> It's an NPC that's incredibly strong and fast, his vocabulary consist only of words like fuck, shit, kill, blood etc. and he's got a big fucking rocket launcher, even in a fantasy environment. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

[quote="RambOrc":1jba2n7f]Well all those years ago when I asked Moose to do it for me, I was very short on time, but now a decade later I find I've completed so many projects that I now once again have time for this, so yes if I don't forget I could do the talk. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> That sounds quite possible, it was a long time ago and my memory is rather poor <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> . Well if you could do it that would be very nice, as your better with words than I am. And it's good to hear you've got more time on your hands. [quote="Rambo":1jba2n7f]You want a Rambo NPC? Let's invent the RPC then (RPC = Rambo NPC). <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> It's an NPC that's incredibly strong and fast, his vocabulary consist only of words like fuck, shit, kill, blood etc. and he's got a big fucking rocket launcher, even in a fantasy environment. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Sounds like a plan, Mago you up to the job?

Lol, well I can notice at a simple glance that you are really excited with the idea Moose, heh! <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Well the binaries and most of the distro are done, so Rambo, should I upload a last internal beta for you to add the convos to? My god, I guess we're working again <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> .

sure

Right here you go boss, all yours <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> . I'll sort the code out and upload it to the public downloads server in a while, then when your ready you can just do the news and link to it.

Hey! Nice stuff, but what do the expmods really do? I don't see much difference, mainly because I don't know which is their goal <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> , lol. BTW, the MAPINFO names MAP01 as "Town" it should be "Winnowing Hall", but it's nothing too complicated to change.

The expmod is a multiplyer for the experience you gain from killing stuff, 100% times the experience gained by 1.0, while 125% will times it by 1.25. The MAPINFO thing must be a leftover from when this was SE, oops.