Well, AFAIK we are going to continue developing SE, then I have some matters to talk about, I remember Moose uploaded some code that was going to be used for TCS that already had some damage skins on it and something else that I can't remember right now (Moose should know what it had), it would be a good base to start our work on SE code, the next thing would be to use some parts of the already implemented experience system for KA, just modifying some things to suit better for SE, and once that is done we can start working on the rest (limiting artifact use for player classes, etc.), another thing that would be interesting and useful for this is a small list that shows the main stuff needed for the base of the RPG concepts, once that is defined and working fine we can look further for new enemies and stuff to add. Please correct me if something I'm posting here is wrong.

I want the rain and snow effects. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think the snow would look great in that open area in Guardian of Ice and I'll add rain to some parts of the Shadow Wood hub while working on it.

Only things I remember doing are the Damage Skins and the OldMage NPC. I may have done a few extra things but I don't remember them. If the code is on KDev then we can continue using that, but failing that I say we start from scratch, I shoudl have all my notes and logs in a folder somewhere I'll dig that out and should be able to redo everything without thinking to hard, my logs where very detailed. As to the Stats system personally I'd say don't just copy it from KA, the KA system is good for Ka but woudln't really be enough for KH. With both of us working on this we shoudl start makeing some headway, and I'd agree that we should get all the basics done first, then add all the nice bits like new enemys. I might even say leave Damage Skins untill we have the actual gameplay stuff near perfect. I've just checked KDev and I can't spot the code I did, and I can't find it on my PC, chances are it's on my other PC, but thats out of action for the time being and I'm not sure when I'll be able to fix it up, or if I can even fix it without reformating. So I'd say, Firebrand if you want to upload the latest version of the Vavoom progs to the CVS repository, then we can both start working away at it. I'm not sure what we should be doing as of yet, but if you have suggestions of what we can each do, please say.

I will download the progs directly from the Vavoom site and organize some stuff before uploading it, I'm sure that I'll have it done for tonight, I'll post tomorrow when the upload has finished so you can download it and we can organize how we will work then <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="RambOrc":amufz1ix]I want the rain and snow effects. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think the snow would look great in that open area in Guardian of Ice and I'll add rain to some parts of the Shadow Wood hub while working on it. Sure! That's an easy thing to do, you'll have them with no problem fast enough, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, you could start doing some work on the hub first <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->.

Holy Moly guys, I think we may be moving forward <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> . Oh and I assume we are starting with work on TCS.

I don't know, let's wait and see what Ramborc says on that <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. But for now I think we are moving forward, as you say <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.

Firebrand you should know me by now, yes I talk about things a lot instead of doing them, but when I do something it comes rather suddenly (like the trailer last week). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

How should I name the new module in the CVS? Scattered Evil or KH?

personally I'd say KH, as we'll use the same code for all 3 projects, well thats how I picture it in my mind, woo momentum. Now I'd best go to bed, as I must be up in 6 hours if I'm to be ready for work on time.

[quote="RambOrc":2pdo9zel]Firebrand you should know me by now, yes I talk about things a lot instead of doing them, but when I do something it comes rather suddenly (like the trailer last week). <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Well, I'm just waiting for it, it sounds like something really cool! I can't wait to see the remake of it, heh! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. EDIT: The new module name is Korax Heritage then <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

If you want you can also use the internal name Korax RPG (or any abbreviation of it).

Strange I can't create the new module using TortoiseCVS, I get this error: cvs [server aborted]: "import" requires write access to the repository Any suggestions anyone?

Probably it tried to import as anonymous user. Check the settings to see what user it uses. If you still have problems, I can create the module and you them add files to it.

It would be nice if you could create the module and I then add the files to it Janis, thanks!

Don't worry Janis I've done it now, I named the module 'KoraxRPG' as suggested by Ramborc. I'll add all the files now.

It seems the source it's not complete Moose, or you didn't upload it all?

How does rain/snow work, do you set it for a whole map (i.e. all areas with a sky ceiling will have it) or do you set it for each sector separately?

You can set it separatedly for each sector, just place a bunch of different mapspots (with gravity set to, say 5 units below the ceiling), and make a OPEN script to spawn the "projectile" (rain/snow), you can use the scripts in the rainy.wad or snowy.wad files in the latest KA source, once I'm done with KA code I'll implement it in SE as it won't be a problem <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

Aye it would seem the upload to the CVS buggered it's self up, I'm still sorting my PC out after a reformat (new mobo) so it may still be a couple of days before I can go about fixing it. I'll tell you when I'm sorted.

No problem there Moose, I already uploaded them some days ago, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> , I also managed to add the weather effects to the code too.

Fine <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I'll just go download them myself. Then I can get back to installing stuff.

Holy moly guys I'm working on TCS <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> . And tomorrow I'm having a day off work so I'll be free to work on TCS then aswell, well in theory, I may get distracted by something shiney.

Good to hear that! I think we will be working better now, let's hope that this new movement stage of development continues at least for a longer time than every other has been, lol.

And RambOrc has recommended I make maps for semiquests so to speak. Well I can sure give it a try, assuming everyone agrees. I never thought I was that good a mapper, but what the boss says is what the boss wants. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

That or you could try to help out with the original map remakes (the 2nd hub still needs to be done), that would be a great help and we could advance faster with it, heh! But you can choose what you want to do too, I'm not forcing you to anything.

From what I've seen this far, Mago is good with creating fresh concepts, Firebrand is good with advanced architecture, using Vavoom features, and 4th Class is good with creating a "puzzling" environment. I think I'm good at capturing a feeling and putting it into a scenery (at least I see it that way, if you see strength/weaknesses for me at other point, please say so), meaning working on maps in a team should create much better works than one of us alone. Since KA is very close to final release (at which point we'll stop development until the new netcode is out, meaning it'll be for a time being a deathmatch-only game, optimized for single play with bots, which already makes it a very good game IMO), it's time to start thinking about how to go on about SE, looks like work in a big way would start on it towards October or so (I estimate 1-2 weeks more for the last public KA beta, after that another couple of weeks for whipping maps into shape, updating the manual and the menus a bit, creating a distro package etc). What I mean is that IMO we should work together on maps - surely not every single one of them but on many, I don't want to say that anyone here isn't capable of making a map alone, what I want to say is that we've all different strengths and combining them we can make real kickass maps. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> This is basically the same that was done with KMOD, 5 people worked on the 2.x code and the end result was IMO better than any of the 5 single-handedly could've done.

As for the 2nd hub (Shadow Wood), it's still on my todo list, OTOH 4 (Castle of Grief) and 5 (Necropolis) nobody yet started with. The main reason I haven't started yet is because after such a long break I'm a bit wary of plunging into mapping, I'll have to re-learn some of the stuff which takes time, so I wanted to start with it only when I've got a longer time in a piece (i haven't yet got any vacation this year).

I think that you had a great idea on the map making Ramborc, it's true, we all have some good points and bad points at map building, if we can combine them properly, we'll have some really good maps to deal with <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, I'm really excited to see that the work on SE will really start moving and that we'll start working on it all together <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I think that the first part to do some good mapping is to decide where will we start in the story? what are going to be the main facts? which locations are going to be used? so we all can inspire ourselves to some good spots and convert them to a game map or two making a good environment using the engine, and using what we have at hand to convert it and make an enjoyable experience when one see's the map, that will be the first step (among other gameplay stuff implemented via source code and features here and there, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->) that will make the game not only good but REALLY good, lol. Once I finish implementing the new KA stuff I'll check the remaining hubs from the original game, I remember I was doing one of the DeathKings hubs, but I stopped working on it for KA development, if you want, someone else can start working on it, I'll give you a hand if you really need it and try to help out giving ideas for creative uses of the Vavoom's features.

Don't forget I can also help with the linguistic aspects as well. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> EDIT: Both pages are out of date, so I'll post some newer ones if you're interested. Though they are good resources nonetheless. I also made a syllabary for it, and it's an excellent way to encrypt private messages. (BTW a syllabary is a writing system where each character represents a syllable in speech, or at list I'm very sure that's what it is.). Maybe that could be of some use? Also, I'm programming a translator for it using C++. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Cornerning mapping for SE, I'm afraid I've never done that before, so I'll need a brief introduction/tutorial to all the utilities every else uses. I've spent my whole mapping career using Wadauthor and Wintex, but I got a feeling I'll need more things too. Come to think of it, I'll definitely need the SE.wcf file; I tried using it a few times, but I couldn't get it to work right. <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

Heh! Now that I think about it, the old SE.wcf file won't be useful as of now, since we are starting almost from scratch, we can start using the Vavom config files for now, you can download them from the Vavoom site, if there's something else added to them, the update should be put on KDev, so that's not a problem at all. I also use mostly WadAuthor to make my maps too, I don't know how to use Doombuilder pretty much, it seems to be more powerful for some things tough, but I prefer to stick with the things I already know, lol, there's nothing else that you might need to learn, but the new sector and line specials available to use for the maps and some new ACS scripting additions for Vavoom that could come handy, there are already some good sources for info on these changes, I managed to update the Vavoom wiki with all the sector and line specials, there might be some stuff still missing, but I'll complete it once I have more info on it and I experiment with it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Doombuilder is very good if you have a lots of surfaces to texture, but it doesn't show (doesn't even recognize) any of the Vavoom specials. Actually if we'd go on about mapping in a very disciplined way by making first a concept and then a detailed plan of a map, we could then create the basic outline (sectors with height) in any of the editors, then do the texturing in Doombuilder and then add the Vavoom specials in WadAuthor. What I'm not sure of what would happen to a map done in WadAuthor with all those Vavoom specials if you'd edit it in Doombuilder and then save it from there. And 4th Class don't worry, what we could do is that you have a concept how to make the map flow with all the puzzles and stuff, then Firebrand could take it and enhance the architecture with Vavoom features, for example.

I think there wouldn't be any problem using the map with Vavoom specials in Doombuilder at all, we could make it as you say Ramborc, I like the idea a lot <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

If you can recommend a good Vavoom tutorial, I'll be happy to read it. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Even for mapping, I may still use wadauthor, but I'd like to have Vavoom there in case I have to include a feature that doesn't work on Wadauthor. I guess the new SE config file will have Vavoom features, right? Maybe I could still use the new SE config file (when it's made of course) strictly on Wadauthor?

I think that the best Vavoom features are both the 3d floors and the slopes, and as you can combine them to create more comples stuff with them, I think it's the most basic thing to learn how to use, if you go to the Vavoom homepage, there's a section called tutorials, Moose made a water tutorial that covers how to make 3d water that it's even swimable! If you can complete the tutorial succesfully and learn how to make 3d floors, you have more than half of the way complete, believe me <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->! As for the slopes tutorial, AFAIK Mago was already working on a sloping tutorial, but it was made using Doombuilder as the editor, you could try giving it a look, I don't think the way to make slopes in WadAuthor differs too much, also, any questions can be directly asked here or in the Vavoom forums <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, and take your time to learn and start building stuff with slopes and 3d floors, believe me, if you start dominating how to build these two, the rest is a piece of cake, heh! What are the other Vavoom features? well, mainly new sector specials, like stairs that build up, BOOM sector specials like wind that comes from an object, some new additions to the ACS language here and there, but I'll save those for later <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

Don't forget static light sources, colored lights and enhanced skybox.

[quote="RambOrc":9yxtc4di]Don't forget static light sources, colored lights and enhanced skybox. But those doesn't require any "complex" learning of stuff, it just requires to know how to place objects in the maps for dynamic lights and how to place them in 3 dimensions (x, y, z) to make some cool effects with them <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for skyboxes it requires some knowledge on how they work, the tutorial I made for them it's already in the same section of the Vavoom engine site <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="RambOrc":kxc7auxu]And 4th Class don't worry, what we could do is that you have a concept how to make the map flow with all the puzzles and stuff, then Firebrand could take it and enhance the architecture with Vavoom features, for example. The more I think about it, the more I think this is a good idea to try out. Though I'm not yet experienced enough to make puzzles that require Vavoom features, I can always make it on wadauthor first and then give it to Firebrand for Vavoom enhancements. Or maybe just give Firebrand total control of the mapping and I just tell him about the puzzles verbally. <!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: --> Though that's not nearly as fun on my side of the bargain, LOL. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> I'm really going to enjoy this collaboration. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> When more work on SE mapping comes in place, that's when I'll be of more use as a mapper. Though I'd be happier making maps that feel like they actually belong in SE, instead of just being placed there simply for more maps. This not only keeps everything to a related theme, but also makes the environment more realistic and organic. BTW, I remember now making a map for KA. I think it was a Capture The Flag wad, and it took place in a keep. Do you remember it?

[quote="The 4th Class":1yi8cs2c]The more I think about it, the more I think this is a good idea to try out. Though I'm not yet experienced enough to make puzzles that require Vavoom features. I don't think that might be much of a problem for now 4th Class, SE mapping will take some time to start properly, in that time you could check the tutorials and try new things with the new ACS stuff Vavoom has <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="The 4th Class":1yi8cs2c]I can always make it on wadauthor first and then give it to Firebrand for Vavoom enhancements. Or maybe just give Firebrand total control of the mapping and I just tell him about the puzzles verbally. <!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: --> Though that's not nearly as fun on my side of the bargain, LOL. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> I also think it would take out the team work from mapping, besides, if we have several people working on different maps, we can have a larger number of maps and make a good use of the whole resources our team has <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. [quote="The 4th Class":1yi8cs2c]I'm really going to enjoy this collaboration. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> You won't be the only one to enjoy it, believe me, <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> lol. [quote="The 4th Class":1yi8cs2c]BTW, I remember now making a map for KA. I think it was a Capture The Flag wad, and it took place in a keep. Do you remember it? Hmm, I remember you made a map for KA, but I don't know if it was for CTF or not, <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> lol.

Concerning the newest topic in the SE forum, I was wondering about the main "hub" map that RambOrc pieced together. Now I don't wanna criticize, but maybe it's best if we keep the climates on the map relative to their latitude. Far too many times have I seen Sahara-like desertland situated right next to snow and blizzards. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> Though RambOrc's map right now makes sense, I just want to bring it up because...well...I feel like it. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> What would be really is if the towns had a dense downtown core, then as you gradually leave it, you reach the suburban residential places, and then eventually to some small farmland, then at last to the wilderness. Of course, this doesn't work for castle, where there's a massive fortification bordering it. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Just thinking out loud. Don't pay any attention to it.

Don't worry, I designed the continent together with a geologist. I never got around scanning all that stuff in, but we created not only a map with where stuff is, but also weather patterns and the like. If we can really pull it off, the world of Korax' Heritage could have a real weather pattern, meaning if you e.g. travel the speed of the latest rain front in the main wind direction, you'll be wet for weeks. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> That said, much of this is planned only for the 3rd part of the trilogy - that's why IMO a trilogy setup is great, we can release something in the foreseeable future without having to sacrifice ideas forever. Kinda like they did it in the DSA trilogy, it was all playing in the same fantasy world, if you wanted you could take the same group of adventurers from one game to another, and while the gameplay was similar, the second title in the series improved on quite a couple of aspects of the original engine, and the third title improved even more on that, adding more and more features. We will do the same, in TCS introducing little more than what was in KMOD 3 (with lots more NPCs, items, weapons and spells of course), whereas starting with the second part (SE) we can add more stuff to it. This way also if we are working on a complex feature (like the map travel mode I mentioned in the other topic) and it wouldn't make the deadline for the first part, we can just keep working on it and implement it in the second part.

I am curious, are there any SE sources for Vavoom? Will we use them when start building SE after KA? Probably they'd need so much updates to current Vavoom version, that it may be easier to take pure Vavoom progs and copy necessary modifications. EDIT: huh, I managed to find only DoomsDay sources.

Moose worked on SE code for Vavoom, no idea where he put it though.

I have alot of interesting ideas, I can't wait to try them... <!-- s](*,) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_wall.gif" alt="](*,)" title="Brick wall" /><!-- s](*,) --> <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> maybe I program on common Vavoom Hexen for the first time... I want to try actor behavior based on Tasks. I.e. to determine complex behavior using map ACS.

Feel free to experiment away, what you write for the current Vavoom version should be working on future versions too (or I'm gonna send Jabba to sit on Janis if he changes the progs interface again <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->).

[quote="RambOrc":1luo6y3c]I'm gonna send Jabba to sit on Janis if he changes the progs interface again <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Prepare Jabba Ramborc, the next version already has some changes on it <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> . As for Vavoom sources, I think that what Moose made was only some small preparations for damage skins, it could still work with the latest version (if it could compile), you can ask Moose where he put those sources, I really don't know, I'll check my files and see if I find the ZIP file name to look for it on the server and if I find it post a link here <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I was thinking in improving the monsters AI to get away from monsters who are attacking the player, making it less probable that monsters kill themselves for their stupidity, another thing that came to my mind lately could be that each monster could also have certain stats to be more affected or less affected by certain damage types (which was why I tought of your suggestion on the Vavoom forums being a very good idea, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->). There's a lot of things to reimplement from KMOD and a lot of things that can be improved thanks to the advanced engine we are basing us now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Go nuts and test any ideas you have as long as KA isn't out the door. Once it's done, I'll drew up a design document for TCS (and some guidelines for the whole trilogy) so people have something to work with.

[quote="Firebrand":3db0wvqm]I was thinking in improving the monsters AI to get away from monsters who are attacking the player, making it less probable that monsters kill themselves for their stupidity Maybe you should make this low-level AI while I try high-level - like issuing tasks and orders: area patrol, follow, go thru waypoints, attack certain creature and such.

We could add something like the path nodes for patroling nodes for monsters, while they aren't alerted they would follow these to "patrol" areas (just an idea). The tasks and orders sound good, but how would you mark them on monsters? with special "states" or something? Sound interesting BTW <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

I was envisioning some kind of vastly ordered monster AI from the beginning of the Korax' Heritage project, if we can pull it off it'd be awesome to have a battle where you and two computer-controlled heroes take upon a whole army, literally hundreds of monsters.

Currently I am thinking it over. I looked into Oblivion's Construction Set - how AI is made there. It is very interesting. They have AI patches for each individual NPC, describing what they should do, when and where. Possible variants are -Wander, Travel, eat, sleep etc.

Well, regarding RambOrc's saying - I've already experimented with Teams, making monsters fight with each other.

"Friendly" monsters are very easy to make, if the tasks and orders system that Crimson Wizard mentions, then creating sets of "premade" reactions for common things (attacking, avoiding enemies or attacks, etc.) can be created and reused/modified per character, I don't think it's too difficult to add to the engine, it's just a series of new properties for computer controlled Actors (no matter if they are good or bad guys) <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

What about townfolk going shopping? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Guards shifting each other in 12am and 12pm....... a ettin ordered to guard a door suddenly wishes to drink a stout of orcish beer and goes to the dinning hall, then centaur captain see this and smashes him for disobedience <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

sounds good to me <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

[quote="RambOrc":qyh6skw3]I was envisioning some kind of vastly ordered monster AI from the beginning of the Korax' Heritage project, if we can pull it off it'd be awesome to have a battle where you and two computer-controlled heroes take upon a whole army, literally hundreds of monsters. This is exactly what I had planned near the end of Dark Realms, though I don't have nearly enough skills to pull off even a shitty job of it. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> I envisioned a massive field in the middle of the night, just in front of a sinister castle where the evil boss lies, and their army of thousands of undead warriors are matched by your hundreds of humans, your hundreds of dwarves, your hundreds of elves, basically so the armies are equal numbers. If only pentiums had that kind of CPU. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

You possibly may simulate this, make a piece of battlefield limited by some walls, ruins, hills etc, player will only march thru this "canyon" fighting acceptable amount of monsters, while there's are sounds of touph battle coming from behind the "walls", or perhaps even some monsters/allies jumping over sometimes, fighting with each other. Heh, have you seen Serious Sam, by the way? I was astounded by its engine, it has VAST maps with GREAT amount of monsters, but still system requirements are so low, I never met a place which give me low fps there.

Never heard. You mean it has more lumps? And don't forget that regularly there are no active NPCs, so that makes the prospect of an even-numbered battle impossible.