Back to the Korax Forum Archives


Forum

Mapping progresses

Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:17:25

mago

Hey, I've been working a lot on discovering Vavoom's potentials, and man am I pleased with this engine! The 3d floors and slopes are easy once you get to understand the mechanism (at least the basic functions), everything is very stable and solid, it's really a pleasure seeing it work. Well, I've made some small progress with it (thanks for the tips, and for the tutorial map DarkRaven kindly gave to me), including my very first decent looking 3d building! I wanted to make a complex looking tavern (complex considering my skills), so I made this small village to give it some context, and I'm pleased everything worked out correctly, and it looks great with Vavoom's features. Just so you can see what I'm talking about, here are some pics: Some shots from the village outer buildings (farms) [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa9.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa2.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] Entering the village from the forest [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa1.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] Aproaching the village's center [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa3.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] Central square (monument) [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa5.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] What's this warm place? It attracks me in this cold and dangerous night <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa6.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] My very first decent looking tavern! [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa7.jpg[/img:c9dfz413] Too bad it looks like a class room in the inside... <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> Still no stairs to the second floor though - didn't want to puch my luck considering the number of intrincate sectors and 3d floors pasted one over the other... [img:c9dfz413]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa8.jpg[/img:c9dfz413]
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 03:23:12

mago

PS: As you may have noticed, it's kinda dark, so that the light from the tavern would have a deeper imapct on the environment. Also, it is sad I didn't finished the village around the square - it looks empty and dry this way, but I was runnign short on proper building textures (I have to update my texture wad), and they would just eat more unnecessary time. Maybe I'll work more on this one, but later, it's 3:18 am now... <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:18:13

mago

BTW, I don't want to brag or anything, but what if we post some of those pics on the SE forum? We don't announce anything big for it in ages, and even if those don't make it to the actual mod, it still mean progress on the mapping side, and could give people a feeling of what we are aiming at. What do you guys say?
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:50:23

dj_jl

This looks really cool. Keep on going! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:58:58

Firebrand

Nice work Mago, keep it up! you are doing some great structures there... <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:18:56

RambOrc

Hey looks really good! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Instead of posting in the SE forum, go on and post directly in the mainpage news, you can easily upload pics and thumbnails and include them in news you post, just go to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/admin/">http://www.korax-heritage.com/admin/</a><!-- m --> and see if you need help with some of the stuff there. And as an advice to anyone on the team that can never be told enough times: create backups of your stuff all the time. For the big town map, I have hundreds of different versions and there were times when I noticed something gone wrong in a major way only much later and had to go back several versions - without those, I'd have fucked up the whole big map at those occasions. This goes pretty much for everything, not just maps BTW.
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:03:01

mago

Nice to see you guys liked. As I had a free day today I kept on working the Villa and added some more urban context to it. There's also two more 3d buildings, but just for giving the buildings texture and openings throughout the walls. I made free use of the vertex sloping thing, it's a easy and cheap way to add mass to the houses' ceilings, guaranteed to work perfectly, but not as dynamic as a longitudinal roof. Had to do tricks for the doors to work on most little houses, you'll understand once you get to see the actual map work. PS: RambOrc is a wise guy - Right after making complex works on those two 3d buildings, I noticed that somehow while in great zoom I move ALL parent sectors 4 or 8 units, which created horrible effects when the linedefs crossed the child's ones, misaligning slope things, etc... Had a terrible time trying to correct everything, as I only noticed it in game and had closed DB by then ( = no undo). Luckly Vavoom and DB are pretty solid and accepted the fixs... Anyway, here are the screenies from the new buildings: Making connection with the square, only 3 buildings (the others are behind them). [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa10.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] Entering the village from the road [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa11.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] A closer, general viw from the square center [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa17.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] A closer look of the bigger building (house of someone important), with the gallery entrance (now that I look at it, I see that I forgot to model the door and windows <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> ) [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa12.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] Little alley between the big house and the other two, where humble houses are located [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa13.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] Opposite view [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa14.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] Humble houses's back side (farm lands) [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa15.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] View from the tavern entrance (closer look to the other 3d building/front wall) [img:3vjitzga]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/villa16.jpg[/img:3vjitzga] I'll try to post the news then, if I somehow can't, I'll let you know here. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:16:07

mago

Well, the truth is that I can't remember what is my personal username and password to enter the add news section... Is there any way to register again?
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:32:11

mago

Could someone please add the news for me, I can't log in to type it no matter what... I've already uploaded the images to the news server and written the post: "With the team divided in three different projects (Scattered Evil and two other not yet officially announced), it gets a bit hard to actually have something major to show up. Still, after a somewhat long time with no visible advancements on our main next project, we finnally made progress on the mapping department! Still a beta test, it?s not much of a map but rather a experiment that focus on implementing features made possible by our base engine, Vavoom, and also set the mood and the style we are aiming at on SE world. Here are some screenshots of this little village and it?s main buildings (PS: don?t mind the little differences between the images, those were taken from different map versions): Far view of the village's center <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/201204.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 201204.jpg</a><!-- m --> Aproaching the village?s inn <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012041.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012041.jpg</a><!-- m --> Center square, with monument and surrounding buildings <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012043.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012043.jpg</a><!-- m --> Dynamic warm light coming from the tavern?s interior <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012044.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012044.jpg</a><!-- m --> Building?s front wall (done with 3d sectors) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012045.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012045.jpg</a><!-- m --> Tavern?s interior (a little empty and lacking decorations, but mainly to show the true 3d tables) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012046.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012046.jpg</a><!-- m --> Other important buildings (done with 3d sectors also) seen from the square <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/20120410.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 120410.jpg</a><!-- m --> Two floors building with gallery entrance <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012047.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012047.jpg</a><!-- m --> Another view <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012048.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012048.jpg</a><!-- m --> The third building done with 3d sectors <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/newspics/2012049.jpg">http://www.korax-heritage.com/images/ne ... 012049.jpg</a><!-- m -->"
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:55:13

RambOrc

Recreated your account, username Mago password mago - if I were you, I'd post a max. of 4-6 images in the news, picking the best looking ones. If you want to post more than one thumbnail in a row, just create all things with the "image" button (if you haven't yet created and uploaded 160x120 thumbnails, best you do it before posting the news, using the original images for thumbnails make them load very slowly on the news page), then remove the following part in between two images that should be in the same row: </div><div align="center"> and replace it with: &nbsp;
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:28:21

mago

Alright, I added the news text. Everything went as planned. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:29:35

Firebrand

our map really looks pretty cool Mago, I would like to see it once you consider it done <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> , I wouldn't like to cut your inspiration, heh! Keep up you nice work man! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:36:57

mago

Hehehe, there really isn't much left to be done on THIS map particularly - I made a rough extension on Vavoom's demo map and worked from there. The village in itself is built in my goo'old style - bunch of little mistakes here and there, and some not very advisable strategies to make things work. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> Still, it plays quite well on Vavoom software mode (I can't play on my 3d card, don't know why). I've learned wuite a lot from this map, I have already a group of ideas I want to see if can be done easily for future city/village maps.
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:47:11

RambOrc

IMO the best approach for the SE maps would be to create them all in team work, because everyone has different strengths. For KA this is not really needed, since there the maps are rather small and need to follow only a couple of guidelines, but for the RPG maps a lot of things need to be considered.
Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:52:31

mago

Very trye. I, for one thing, still can't add any type of script at all, polyobject and even tag funsctions are very complex to me... Hopefully i'll sort most of this out by the time we are with KA behind us.
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:29:58

mago

Right, still training my way with mapping complex buildings with the help of occasional 3d sectors. This time I wanted to try a simple wall and it's main entrance body (aswell as connecting building to the upper level of defense). There's no background, so it looks kinda silly, but anyway... Some pics: [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall8.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall1.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall4.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall3.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall7.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall6.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall9.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff] [img:2yt2v2ff]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Doombuilder/wall10.jpg[/img:2yt2v2ff]
Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:16:57

Firebrand

Wow! That looks pretty nice Mago <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> , nice work!
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:37:16

RambOrc

Hey Mago can you upload the latest version of your village map?
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:44:36

Firebrand

Yes! That would really be nice man! I would like to see it!
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 19:58:41

mago

No problem at all, but don't expect much, I have abondoned it since January, there's little done you guys already don't know (apart from the sloped snow hill, outside the village?). I also uploaded the castle wall from the screenshots above. You guys will also need as aditional wad while loading Vavoom the Severanc.wad, with the new textures and flats. I have a lot of new ones, but I checked and the last time I inserted new textures was in late Decemeber, so that's the version uploaded. I'll soon add new textures etc. but I'll make a new directory just for it, so we can have a better way of accessing the latest work and don't mix up versions. The files are in my folder, under Doombuilder -> Maptests directory.
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 20:53:58

RambOrc

I like the way you placed the houses disregarding right angles and sizes, it makes for a more realistic and less "designed" village. I do have a feeling though that some of the houses are too small, is that possible?
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:36:16

Firebrand

Hey Mago! I'm impressed the detail on your maps is very good! I like the work you have made on those new textures, there's even some snow there! Really, really cool work man! Keep it up!! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 22:50:14

mago

Thanks a lot guys, it's very experimental work, but I had great fun making the maps, I have lots of ideas I'll try to implement later on. RambOrc - indeed, middle age urbanism in general based itself on organic growth, and that's specially true on small rural villages like that one. And as for dimensions, it's very likely some of those are too small - the problem is that I still couldn't figure out a scale for hexen's units (example: 100 height in hexen equals 250 real cm or whatever), so I tried some combinations, to see how they looked in game. I wish I did more interiors, specially on one of the huts, but I'll go for it some other time. I still believe a black fog would increase considerably the ardk night ambiance, do you guys know if it's a possibility? Games like Antara uses the "existance radius" to create the sense of progress and overall atmosphere (that effect when things will gradually appear as we move, inside a fixed radius around th POV). I'm thinking even Hexen's original fog effect, if adjusted somehow, could create an effect just as effective (in terms of memory saving due to the parcial view of the landscape), but much prettier one too...
Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:41:34

RambOrc

Player height is 64 units, you could say that's 1.70-1.80. For the houses appearing slowly, what you want is basically already included in Vavoom with the viewdistance setting. But what Antara does (and I wanted to do too, we've discussed this with Janis and Camper years ago) is to have several maps for the same part of the world, as you cross invisible lines the map is swapped and you see more and more details. Some FPS games made a very limited use of something similar too, like Half-Life.
Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:41:42

Firebrand

I don't doubt it looks cool, but I think it would be a bit difficult to make something similar, don't you think?
Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:24:09

RambOrc

Well it means more work for mapping of course, but aside of that it needs only one thing: the linedef map teleport we discussed years ago.

Back to the Korax Forum Archives