Well, first specific code has benn uploaded to KoraxRPG repository. That is - Actor Conditions. I must warn though, that I am not 100% sure it will compile <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> because for some reasons I couldn't test it with very last vavoom progs, so I've compiled it with 1.24 progs, then fixed a bit to match last progs version. 2 Firebrand: if you manage to compile it successfully, you may use "impulse 100" and "impulse 101" console commands to cast "Ice damager" and "Poisoning" on Player correspondingly. "Impulse 102" casts "Mana Burn".

LOL, I haven't tried to compile the code <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, but this weekend I'll try it and give my comments on it, nice work, it sounds really interesting <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.

I updated this, now it should compile without any problem, plus I improved some things there. Also removed all player's poison counters and substituted original poisoning stuff by Actor Condition. Funny that, I allowed to poison monsters as well (in some cases),but I made one mistake and now poisoned monsters are coughing like player does <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Haha! It's rather funny to hear that, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

LOL just leave it in - monsters could even react the same way to poison as player, rendering their aim worse for a couple of secs.

Yeah, but how d'you imagine that - coughing firebirds <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> This needs some workaround for sure. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Okay, new AI code is on the SVN along with basic Actor Tasks implementation. Firebrand, can you please check if it compiles poroperly? For debug purposes 4 new commands work, that issue some order to ALL monsters on the map (I'll add ACS functions later): impulse 200 - cancel current Task (if any) impulse 201 - stand still for 5 seconds (no reaction) impulse 202 - go to the point on map where player was standing while issuing this order impulse 203 - attack everyone endlessly. For specific reasons this advanced AI does not work for some monsters like Fire Gargoyle, but this will be fixed later as well.

I'll checkout the KRPG SVN repository today and try to compile it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Yes, it compiles nicely <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, I'll test these nice features and post here again <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. EDIT: I've made a quick test and it all works flawlessly, I'm really excited by seeing this stuff <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> , I want to start working on the experience system right now! But I've got to finish KA first, heh! <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

travel map! I want my travel map! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

working on it <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

travel map! travel map! travel map! travel map!

Why do you need it so much, RambOrc? If you want to begin planning map entries and road scheme, you may do that on paper after all. Anyway, what I got this far is a sprite of fighter, which can be moved across the screen with cursor keys and a random sprite, representing the map. When player sprite is at "map" position user may press 'enter' and player enters the map <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> It's just a test.

LOL sounds you just made a 2D adventure game. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> Anyway I just want to get a feel for the travel system implementation, to see how much complexity I should plan into it (passing of time during travel, encounters etc). OTOH if you say moving a sprite around on the map is easy and the DSA/Arcania style of travel map is complicated to code and to create (positioning items, defining routes etc), we could leave it at the sprite version for the moment, just tell me for what kind of system I should design the overview map (16x16 pixel squares or something else).

Crimson have you started working on the rest of the KoraxRPG features?

What are those "rest of features"? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Lately I couldn't dedicate much time to KRPG, so progress is nuisance relative to what it was 2-3 weeks ago. I started to write parser for map entries data, and also added 4 new monsters just for fun (without proper sprites yet).

LOL everything that's not travel map is "rest". <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

I promise I'll finish KA ASAP and help out on this too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

LOL, I made ettins-archers evade threat by running away from enemy (to keep distance) <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> It looks very funny, at first they go backwards for some time, still facing player, and turn around after couple of seconds.

sounds cool <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

That makes me remember there was a certain port (MBF if I'm not wrong), that made monsters able to "melee fight" when the player was holding a melee weapon in doom (fist or chainsaw), it made the monster stay at a certain distance and shoot more frequently, then when the player strafed, the monster walked to the front of him to make it's melee attack on the face, it was something cool, maybe we could implement something similar <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Sure, the more interesting it is to fight monsters the better. And if they get too smart for the player, we can simply reduce their damage and health (though the idea is more to have dozens of stupid monsters you can mass slaughter).

People, you don't know what you are talking about <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Those archers kick player ass already. I put three of them near starting position on 1st Hexen level, and this usually ends with hero loosing about 50-70% of health while beating them. ...not mentioning there's ettin commander armed with hammer of retribution roaming nearby, lol Well, I think we'll have to adjust their power anyway. I also did Magma Stalkers and Lava Dwellers (currently represented by Minotaur Statue sprites). First ones are a bit more dangerous than common Stalker Leaders, since they shoot similar to Fire Gargoyle - by 3 consequent fire projectiles. As for LDs, they are touph. You may beat a single one using missile weapons rather easily (if you've got enouph ammo), however they are very dangerous in close combat, and in group. In fact, they could be thought of as a defence turrets, they are completely immobile. Sometimes they hide under the surface and regenerate <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Regarding progress. I've made few ACS functions which control monster behavior; with these it is already possible to make them: - stand still - attack an object - attack everyone - evade from an object or position - move to position - follow object - patrol between 2 points Bad thing I haven't yet finished AI, so, for example, they pay no attention to possible threat while performing those orders.

I think I will make an internal build soon - with all AI features and a couple of test maps to demonstrate new scripting abilities. added orders: - move along path of nodes (special type of nodes used) - patrol along path of nodes forward/backward or looped added threat reaction modes: - no reaction - react only when health is < 1/3 - react on any damage - react when seeing an enemy - react when detected an enemy (by any means) (default) This also includes setting threat vicinity - a maximal range to detect threat at.

Updated SVN. Firebrand, can you try compile it and run Hexen with those progs?

Woah! A lot of things got changed and added, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Yep, they compile correctly, the only errors I get are caused because I've also updated the common progs and the menu API in KoraxRPG isn't updated yet <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, but fixing this up it compile correctly. I'll be testing these when I get a chance.

Added couple of important fixes and one extra feature. I am not sure evryone will like it, but we'll see <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

What feature?

Hehe... There's a special property that defines "living" creatures. Those creatures have approx. 13% possibility to spawn "flying-away spirit" upon their death. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Huh?

[img:1gfk5gn3]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/dyingspirit.jpg[/img:1gfk5gn3]

You mean it's just eye candy?

Yeah, just a visual&audio effect. But, ofcourse, if we'll add a Necromancer class, it could be used for mana gathering , lol

No necromancer (or any other) class ever. KRPG is pure Hexen. What I was thinking though that it could instead be an angry spirit that attacks you. Just spawn a single ghost out of the body like the ghosts of the wraithverge. BTW the chance is not 13% but 1/8 right?

[quote="RambOrc":12nu0znj] What I was thinking though that it could instead be an angry spirit that attacks you. Just spawn a single ghost out of the body like the ghosts of the wraithverge. That was my first idea, but not for every living creature, just for some special. Meanwhile I decided to make this effect for fun. What you have in mind - should this "angry spirit" act as wraithverge's (temporarily) or should it live until killed by player? [quote="RambOrc":12nu0znj]BTW the chance is not 13% but 1/8 right? Chance is 33 / 255. Long story how it came so, but this could be changed ofcourse.

Just a spirit coming out of the body and working exactly like a single ghost from a wraithverge shot, i.e. basically just a fancy projectile shot. Good for when you kill 3-4 monsters at once and survive with only a couple of HP and while you are proud of yourself the angry spirits make your HP dip below zero. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> 1/8 because Heretic uses 8-sided dice for most attacks (probably because of the pen-and-paper RPG roots of the developers at Raven), and Hexen to some extent still does it AFAIK.

By the way, in my demo WAD, that I have almost prepared, there will be a combat between 3 parties of monsters. You should see that, a real massacre <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Sounds cool. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I don't want to make any empty promises so I can't say when I'll present the travel map, but I'm on it.

If you check the SVN repository, the latest menu API is there, so no more errors when compiling for me <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I also tweaked some things, Janis added mouse support for menu screens (and anything UI based <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->), which means spellbooks, maps, journals, etc. can have mouse support with great ease, I'm still learning how to use the feature thought, so it might be a bit buggy for now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, but still cool IMO. BTW; I really like that effect there, IMO we could make certain creatures to spawn a hostile spirit, so the player isn't always prepared for it, it would make things more interesting for the RPG <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->, nice work!

Well, I've been playing it for a good while now and I like the AI enhancements, monsters are indeed a bit more difficult when searching for player, have you noticed that a single shot makes all the monsters in the map to their chase states? IMO it should only wake monsters who can really hear the shot. Also, funniest error EVER <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

- (engine.Object.FatalError)
- RunFunction
- (engine.Object.FatalError 0)
- RunFunction
- (svprogs.IntelligentActor.Tick 98)
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (svprogs.IntelligentActor.Tick)
- VThinker::Tick
- RunThinkers
- P_Ticker
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: PLAYER left the game

Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: I am tired of this stupid game... should we play tetris instead?
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown

WTF? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

[quote="Firebrand":26de0grp]have you noticed that a single shot makes all the monsters in the map to their chase states? IMO it should only wake monsters who can really hear the shot. No, I didn't, that's really strange, I'll check this one. [quote="Firebrand":26de0grp]monsters are indeed a bit more difficult when searching for player Not sure what you mean... <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> but I am sure they should not search better without path nodes. [quote="Firebrand":26de0grp]WTF? <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Large SVN update. - Some enhancements to AI; most important is Task Leadership, which allows monsters to follow their 'comrades' in search for mutual target; this (hopefully) will decrease amount of CPU work, since only few monsters will have to build full routes to target. - Player ducking. - Weather (snow and rain) - Some new monsters: Dark Cardinal, Chilling Mist, Toxic Mist, Ghost. - New spell "Confusion" (can be laid on Player using 'impulse 103', also caused by Ghost's attack). - "Authentic" RPG torch artifact that lightens only limited area around player (looks cool in dark areas). Resources for Cardinal are on kdev: ScatteredEvil/resources: sprites.pk3 and sounds.pk3 (could be used as-is)

Now we only need to add to vavoom a console command that spawns desired monster class to test new enemies easily <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

Why? I usually just place them on original Hexen maps, or on one of my map scratches.

Because I don't like editing maps just to test some enemies, heh! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I prefer something faster <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. BTW, I've got the latest revision, but I can't compile it: [quote="VC Compiler":27bkstqw]game/Pawn.vc:26: Class Pawn already has been declared I can't check the source right now <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->, I've got some stuff to do today, so on the weekend I'll give it a shot.

Fixed. Pawn.vc was included 2 times.

Got not much free time to finish conversations now, so I decided to update as-is. New code is on SVN, new resources are on kdev: ScatteredEvil/resources. Also I put con script syntax manual both on SVN and kdev: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/docs/conscript.htm">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... script.htm</a><!-- m -->

Well, after a long time of silence I finally have some good progress, I've got the leveling system from KMod3 almost ported to Vavoom progs, it has some small details I need to iron, but once this is done I'll make a new internal release with all we have <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, this is definitely looking great IMO.

Well, I am back here too; my primary intention is to complete a travel map, but I must say, someone messed up monster ai <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> so I will have to fix it too.

Okay here we go! Travel map finished and code commited to SVN <!-- s\:D/ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_dance.gif" alt="\:D/" title="Dancing" /><!-- s\:D/ --> and hell, it works <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Call it during gameplay by typing "impulse 99" in console. (Ofc assuming you have 'trvlmap' lump somewhere in data packages). Also important travelmap should have the map entry corresponding to the level you are leaving. If it hasn't, toggle travel map cheat: "travelmapcheat 1" BEFORE calling travel map to be able to move there using cursor keys, then position "traveller" mark on some other map and disable cheat ("travelmapcheat 0"). Known problems: 1. Dynamic information is not stored yet, thus if you explore the initially hidden roads, enter some level and then goto travel map again, all roads that were initially hidden will become hidden again. 2. If you call travel map from , say, map01 and return back on map01 from travel map, travel map music will continue playing. <!-- sorcstupid --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcstupid.gif" alt="orcstupid" title="orcstupid" /><!-- sorcstupid --> 3. If you hit Esc when "Do you want to enter XX" confirmation is displayed, travel map will freeze <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Nice, can't wait for a binary version so I can try it.

I'll try to upload a new internal release ASAP.

No release still. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Anyway, Firebrand Can you please check SNDINFO lump in KRPG? I am getting script error there, but cannot understand what is wrong.

Yes, I have to check how it works, it's been months since I last worked on it, maybe I'll upload an internal version of it as it is <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> .

OK, I've fixed the problem we were having with both KA and KRPG not running on the last Vavoom revision, it seems there were some changes done incorrectly to DECORATE parser, I'll further investigate it and report it to Janis, so he can fix the problem <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I've uploaded an internal test version of KRPG here: [url:3rglndg7]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/KoraxRPG_20090105.zip Please tes it out <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. What's in: [list:3rglndg7]- Basic character creation screen, you can give your character a name and a colour for the game, then choose his stats to begin with. - Basic RPG stats system (might be a bit unbalanced, you tell me), update screen is ready, you can bind it to any key you wish, check the controls config, basic leveling system and experience system is working too, when enemies kill other enemies they'll increase their experience, so be sure to kill them to get it all, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> - Basic spell system (no spellbook, no spell list), you can basicly navigate through the existing spells like if it was a secong inventory bar, IIRC there is the possibility to assign key for navigating left and right like the inventory, and assigining a use key for spells. Only the fighter and cleric have spells right now, I'll add the remaining ones later on development, one huge addition to the spell system is that enemies can now cast a limited number of spells, for example, ettins and centaurs can use berserk if they are hit, test it out, it works cool IMO <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. - Monsters can have assigned some inventory items to use too, so any enemy is able to use health items and/or discs of repulsion, etc. This isn't being done right now, it's implemented but not used <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.[/list:u:3rglndg7] Those are the most interesting/important things I remember right now, please let me know what you think of them and what can be improved on the system we are using now, of course there should be some bugs left, I remember the spell inventory being crashing and that the physics code was in a bad shape, but I guess it's working fine for now <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Works without crashes or obvious errors, although I have the feeling that monsters move faster than they used to (or I just got old). Also, adding to the speed attribute makes you insanely fast in just a few levels, but don't change it yet, will see how it turns out. There was a weird thing in Sevel Portals, in the first side room you can enter down at the elevator there were a bunch of players standing around, not reacting (player starts?). Something strange with mana when playing with the fighter, first I didn't see any mana cubes in the first hub, second at the start of the game when I picked up the axe it came with a bit of mana, I could hit with it charged a few times, then I ended up having -15 mana.

Heh, this version sounds like screwed a bit <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> ok, I'll test it.

[quote="RambOrc":1b3z8ehk]Works without crashes or obvious errors, although I have the feeling that monsters move faster than they used to (or I just got old). Do monsters move faster all the time or just temporarily? If it's temporary, then it's because of berserking, only ettins are able to do it for now. [quote="RambOrc":1b3z8ehk]Also, adding to the speed attribute makes you insanely fast in just a few levels, but don't change it yet, will see how it turns out. Yep, noticed this too, let's test it out and see what happens. [quote="RambOrc":1b3z8ehk]There was a weird thing in Sevel Portals, in the first side room you can enter down at the elevator there were a bunch of players standing around, not reacting (player starts?). This could be related to something in the last Vavoom revision, I'll check it out, it's somehow recognizing those spots as vodoo dolls... [quote="RambOrc":1b3z8ehk]Something strange with mana when playing with the fighter, first I didn't see any mana cubes in the first hub, second at the start of the game when I picked up the axe it came with a bit of mana, I could hit with it charged a few times, then I ended up having -15 mana. That's odd too, it should work fine, I'll give it a check too.

I can't tell whether it's the game faster or my reflexes worse than a few years back, all in all I had trouble with how fast the chaos serpents were shooting, it felt like much faster than in classic Hexen.

I finally got a chance to try it out. And I must say its looking pretty good so far. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Although, I didn't play any farther than the first level, in original hexen, I did take a look at the demo map. The centaurs do appear to be able to use berserk, too... I imagine this is the cause of other monsters moving fast as well. Speed goes way too fast, even without going over 10. But, again, we'll see what happens. And it doesn't seem to affect attack speed (Is this intentional or will this be implemented later, if at all?).

I forgot to add new demo map with ettin grenadiers, it is where the real fun starts <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> will do this as soon as I get free time.

If you upload it, I can include it in the next internal build which will have those new decorations, I've finally had the time to fix them for use in Vavoom, I'm in the last step of my implementation now (testing that everything works fine) <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Hopefully this afternoon I'll upload it to KDev.

New internal release is here: [url:2mkr8l7j]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/KoraxRPG_20090114.zip It contains the models for decorations, with new thing types list, doom builder config updated, ACS specials last update, no bug fixes have been done to it, only the additions to decorations, if you have any problems with it, let me know and I'll fix them.

1) can I use the launcher to start krpg? It's not in the dropdown and if I put "koraxrpg" in the "custom game" field it won't start up at all. 2) how do I add things to a WadAuthor .wcf file? The textfile included with KRPG lists things the following way:

15109		PUMPKIN 2

Wadauthor uses following format:

0x029   8       20      msh3a0          Mushroom (medium, left)

Good job so far, FB. I really like the models that you added to it... They don't render right for me, but I like them nonetheless. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> [quote="RambOrc":3ncti4xz]1) can I use the launcher to start krpg? It's not in the dropdown and if I put "koraxrpg" in the "custom game" field it won't start up at all. <!-- s:-s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /><!-- s:-s --> It works fine for me putting it in the custom game field. [edit] Just tried it again and KRPG doesn't appear to work properly when adding a custom wad to it in the launcher (nor do any of the other .bat files other than koraxrpg.bat). FB, its like the error I already get trying to run it with the compile progs. [/edit] [quote="RambOrc":3ncti4xz]2) how do I add things to a WadAuthor .wcf file? Didn't he add a config file in the "editing" folder with KRPG?

Chair 2 and Tables 1 and 2 are half under the earth and increasing Z values doesn't change anything. Chair 1, barrel and the small gray gargoyles are fine.

Seems they need to have a Z offset, I wonder why only those models don't work... <!-- s:-k --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_think.gif" alt=":-k" title="Think" /><!-- s:-k --> I'll see what can be done. As for the game not starting up, I don't know, it should work when using the launcher and setting a custom game, are you loading any other files that could screw it up or maybe warping to some map?

I think you're already familiar with my problem... But, I just try running it without any addition files. Only with koraxrpg in the custom game box... Still don't have a clue what causes it.

I took out the warp part but it didn't change anything. I used 3 files, the demo/krpg wadfile and the two wadfiles for the city map. If I add koraxprg as custom game, it never starts up, if I take it out it starts up. As far as I am concerned, either finding a solution to this problem or to the 90° tilted view when using a batchfile problem is fine, if one of the two works with warping that's already enough for me to be able to test maps quickly.

I'll look into it, since this is a serious bug that makes development slower than needed <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I'm already fixing the problems with models too.

BTW regarding one of the trees, it has a purple outline, is that intended?

[quote="RambOrc":lkg50bmr]BTW regarding one of the trees, it has a purple outline, is that intended? I noticed that when making another map for KA, 1 or 2 types of tree models had thick purple outline. On closer inspection I decided it is something like texture mistake, maybe some pixels left non-transparent, or alpha-channel does not work. Looks terribly, by the way.

It looks like that in Doomsday too, I guess I'll have to manually fix that, since the authors of the doomsday model pack decided it was a good idea to use purple as the background for some of the skins (a terrible selection IMO) instead of using plain transparent layers, Vavoom only supports full alpha channel for PNG images, it seems the next version of Doomsday is going to do all kind of alpha levels for textures, so this problem should be fixed in Vavoom or in the skins (or in both, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->), for now I'l focus on fixing the code, after that, I'll get into fixing the skins, it's going to be a pain to do it manually, but I don't see any other choice here <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Fixing that skin is very unimportant, it's the kind of small thing that needs to be fixed only for the first public beta IMO. Fixing the other problem has much higher significance, since at the moment I have the choice between using plain Vavoom and not seeing any of the models and NPCs or spending about half a minute of going through menu settings (and with the char generation, I can't just blindly hit Enter a number of times) and seeing that stuff in-game.

Okay, played KRPG again a bit. I don't know if I have the latest updates from the SVN, I used the basepak that I uploaded to my folder... I can't seem to compile anymore (getting errors from supposedly unedited files; StatusBarScreen.vc and most every new 'spell' file). Anyways, I noticed that after like level 4 the update screen doesn't work properly. No options are highlighted and adding to stats appears to do nothing (it does work, but adding to the stats just isn't shown, I guess). At like level 3 I stopped being able to pick up Quartz Flasks and Flechettes and possibly some other items (I can't remember right now <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> ), it says "You must be level 5 to use mana." Both of those were found using the Cleric.

Yep, I'm already working on a solution for the pickups problem, as for the leveling up problem, I haven't noticed it myself, I'll see what could be the problem <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, keep testing it to see if you find anymore bugs <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> .

Will do, but right now I'm trying to fix my problem with the compiler. Keep getting compiling errors from certain files (which names I cannot recall ATM <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> but I did mention them in the previous post). Once I fix those, or if it takes too long to fix them <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> I'll get back to testing.

Oh yeah, in case it wasn't clear in KRPG there will be no such thing like "you can't pick up this type of item". In KMOD we had to introduce the class restrictions for item pickup because the other alternative would have been to edit every single Hexen map.

Does that mean we are taking out the mana restriction for KRPG?

Good to know before trying to fix things that didn't worked fine, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Then I'll focus on adding the next batch of spells, I'll remove the restrictions from the code and upload a new internal release tomorrow <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I've fixed the problems with the models sinking in the floor and I've also fixed the problem you were having when warping maps, now testing should become more easy <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":2ddylroi]Then I'll focus on adding the next batch of spells, I'll remove the restrictions from the code and upload a new internal release tomorrow Good, I need something else to test to death. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> Okay, i'm not sure if this is where I should post this... But what the hell. Recently, as I've mentioned, I had trouble compiling the progs for KRPG. According to the log messages there hasn't been a modification to this file (or pretty much any of the others...) Anyone know why this suddenly happened?

vcc -Ie:/KRPG/progs/common/linespec -Pe:/KRPG/progs/progs linespec/classes.vc linespec.dat
Couldn't open EntityEx.Morph.vc

vcc -Pe:/KRPG/prog/prog game/classes.vc game.dat
game/Player.vc:33: No such class KRPGPlayerBase
game/ACSpellConfusion:33: No such class ActorCondition
game/ACSpellManaBurn.vc:33: No such class ACDamageDealer
game/ACSpellShield.vc:33: No such class ActorCondition
game/ACSpellShrink.vc:33: No such class ActorCondition
game/SpellPointBased.vc:33: No such class SpellInstance
game/SpellBerserk.vc:33: No such class SpellItem
game/SpellDefensive.vc:33: No such class SpellItem
game/SpellRepulsion.vc:33: No such class SpellItem
game/SpellHealing.vc:33: No such class SpellItem
game/SpellSpirits.vc:33: No such class SpellItem
Confused by previous errors, bailing out

vcc -Pe:/KRPG/progs/progs cgame/classes.vc cgame.dat
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:287: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:393: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:410: No such field Frags
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:425: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:425: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:451: No such field ReadyWeapon
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:451: No such field ReadyWeapon
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:456: No such field ReadyWeapon
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:456: No such field ReadyWeapon
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:474: No such field ArtifactFlash
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:476: No such field ArtifactFlash
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:478: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:480: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:481: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:484: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:484: No such field SpellTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:486: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:491: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:515: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:522: No such field SpellTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:527: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:534: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:538: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:541: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:541: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:576: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:588: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:611: No such field SpellTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:614: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:621: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:625: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:628: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:628: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:653: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:659: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:666: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:666: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:675: No such field SpellTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:678: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:685: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:689: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:692: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:692: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:725: No such field Health
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:727: No such field Health
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:731: No such field Health
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:736: No such field MO
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:767: No such field Frags
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:770: No such field InventoryTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:773: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:782: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:789: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:789: No such field InvFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:798: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:802: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:803: No such field InvPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:806: No such field SpellTime
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:809: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:817: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:821: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:824: No such field SpellFirst
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:824: Unknown method KRPGInventory
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:833: No such field SpellPtr
cgame/StatusBarScreen.vc:837: No such field SpellPtr
Too many errors

Don't mind the occasional spelling error, I typed it up myself. <!-- s:o --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc5.gif" alt=":o" title="Surprised" /><!-- s:o --> (Please don't tell me there is a debug file, if there is) So, am I missing a file or something?

Mana restriction is pretty much the same as denying items to certain classes, they were the easiest way to add some extra curve off difficulty to KMOD, there is no need for such things in KRPG where we define all items and create all maps. We can place valuable upgrades and weapons beneath bosses of certain difficulty or require a certain level to be able to purchase better weapons from a town vendor. Same can be done for spells, you can e.g. buy a scroll or book but you can't learn the spell on it until you are a certain level.

Good point, I'd never really thought of it that way. Will we have a level restriction on randomly found items or will we even have loot that monsters drop, aside from gold/silver? I suppose items found in caves and other things would be placed by us based on the assumed level of the player when they explore it, correct? Or will this be done some other way? But then again, I suppose this could also be covered by having a level restriction to buying certain items in the store, as well. [/constant questioning] <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

[quote="Stryker":334ikjfr]Anyone know why this suddenly happened? Seems like you don't have the latest revision of Vavoom's common progs, to get it, you need to update it using TortoiseSVN, if you have problems wit it, let me know in a PM and I'll help you <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. As for what Ramborc said, I like that better, I was going to ask precisely how we were going to balance the spells and items <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, so this pretty much sums up the answer I was looking for. We can add some extensions to ACS scripts in which we could track which level the player currently has, so we can change item/monster spawns dynamically if really needed <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, so it shouldn't be a problem IMO. EDIT: I've uploaded the new internal build: [url:334ikjfr]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/KoraxRPG_20090117.zip. Now I'm going to sleep, good night everyone! <!-- sorcdodo --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdodo.gif" alt="orcdodo" title="orcdodo" /><!-- sorcdodo -->

It works now. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I'll take a look at the latest internal build today... But, I'm pretty sure I don't have the gargoyles damage skins working right. More than likely I got the frames wrong, so hopefully I can have that sorted out soon. I also have the Stalker to implement. And, will it be worth it to implement the heresiarch's damage skins? I assume he'll be used in KRPG. If anyone notices any other ones that I haven't gotten to, or don't work then please tell. EDIT: Crashed almost right away when fighting the first few ettins in the winnowing halls. Debug file says segmentation violation error. I'll look into it more in a bit, maybe figure out what caused it and see if I can replicate it.

Actually, except of the items you can buy in the city there needs to be no level restriction of things, by simply putting them in places where you have to kill monsters of a certain difficulty to get them we not only solve that problem but also add the FPS half of the game: as per concept, if you are more of the RPG type you can go to every place and do every quest and be much higher level when facing a certain dungeon, or you can be a shooter type with very good reflexes and go to the same dungeon 20 levels earlier, take 3x or 5x as many shots to kill a monster, but due to good footwork still take less damage in the end.

Sweet, the bug with the tilting has been solved, now I can start a test map up with one click. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> The two tables are still only half aboveground for me. The chair that was half in the floor is now properly on the floor, but it is way bigger than the other chair (chair1 vs chair2).

Odd, it works fine for me in the test map, I'll see what can be done, as for one chair being bigger than the other, what do you think? should the small one be bigger? or the bigger one be smaller? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Before I can decide that, is the current NPC we have from Strife the final height we will have for all adult humans?

I guess so, most of the NPCs we've got are scaled at a similar height than this one <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Object 15112 (I think that's chair1) has the right height. A stool's, chair's or bank's seat should be at knee height, while a table's surface should be at waist height.

OK, I think I got it right, I've uploaded a smaller download with the model fixes, you can get it from: [url:1xdrudx7]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/krpg_model_fix_20090121.zip Let me know what you think of it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Mucho better now, dinner tables aren't coffee tables any more. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I noticed one visual error with the skin of chair1 on one of the legs, can't say whether it was there before too.

Could be related to the scaling of the chairs... but I'm not sure.

I know it's too early to post "official" list of bugs, anyway some issues I noticed in the last internal release: - Mouse clicks on speech options during the conversation crash the game; - Pressing 'u' when Player stats shown will display extra one Player stats window. You will not notice that until press 'OK' to close the first window (or is it the second one?). - Pressing 'left arrow' when any stat selected and you have skill pts to spend will increase stat, but only once.

Good ones! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I'll fix them once I finish the current work I'm doing with the code, I'm almost (hopefully) done with the new weapon system, then I'll work on the HUD <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

I've uploaded to the SVN repository the fixes I made to the weapon system, it works as expected now, let me know of any problems you find <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":1e9f3u3x]I've uploaded to the SVN repository the fixes I made to the weapon system, it works as expected now And how it is expected to work? <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

Since we are going to have 10 slots, I think each slot should have 1 weapon assigned to it, and that we should store 'inactive' weapons as pointers on the inventory, so that only when they become 'active' they are assigned to the player, this will make things easier for weapons that can be bought or obtained later in the game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Not sure I understand what you just said. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> At any rate, KA's weapon handling would be more or less fine for KRPG too, just assign a certain weapon/spell to a certain number, this time not 8 but 10 versions and their mana type used might not dependent on the slot, depending on the class it might be that more weapons use blue mana e.g. but in vastly different quantities. The secondary weapon function of KA is IMO just about perfect, i.e. you can bind a number of auxiliary weapon-ish objects like flechettes with different functions to it and the same as you can decide what weapon or spell of that category (e.g. which of the many one-handed axes available in the game) you want active on number slot number 2 of the fighter, you can also say which flechette or disc of repulsion function should be the active one when you use the alt fire.

[quote="Firebrand":1i1uql4h]Since we are going to have 10 slots, I think each slot should have 1 weapon assigned to it, and that we should store 'inactive' weapons as pointers on the inventory, so that only when they become 'active' they are assigned to the player, this will make things easier for weapons that can be bought or obtained later in the game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Actually, I did not understand this either. Why storing inactive weapons and how this will ease obtaining some weapons in game process? Also when adding KRPGWeapon you did not notice we already have HexenWeapon class, and now some code there will be ignored because it's out of use. EDIT: I looked over the code; Firebrand, I must say what you did is rather strange. First of all it looks like you made same pickup technique like in Korax Arena, that is that same pickup item gives different weapons for different classes. I don't believe we discussed this somewhere in the forums, but should it really be this way? Also, according to the code, it makes all weapons fixed to it slots, but I thought that weapon selection should be free instead with lots of possible weapon combinations that player can obtain (that's how RambOrc said above by the way). I see a lack of plan here, as well as deviation from game concept document: [quote="koraxrpgconcept_2008-03-22.pdf":1i1uql4h] A player has ten slots for weapons (keys 1-0). He can equip a spell or weapon of his choice [u:1i1uql4h]in any slot[/u:1i1uql4h], thus configuring his own [u:1i1uql4h]custom arsenal[/u:1i1uql4h]. This way, he can always quickly switch between 10 different weapons/spells from the dozens he has at his disposal. So, if I understand this correct, there should not be any fixed weapon lists - at all.

I am fine with either of the following systems: 1) the 10 weapon types are hardcoded to numbers, i.e. fireball spells of the mage are always on key nr. 5 etc. 2) player can decide which weapon/spell to bind to which key 2a) player can bind weapon types 2b) player can bind any spell to any key, e.g. use 3 different weapons or spells of the same type and forego others completely

Well, current implementation differes from both of that two ways, it is made so that exact weapon is being bound to exact slot.

What a weapon pickup rules should be? Should there be pickups in Hexen style, like when you find a weapon and it is being added to your weapons list immediately, or should it be put in some separate list of weapons from where you choose your current "arsenal"? Also, should pickups be class-specific, like fighter/cleric/mage pickups, or multi-class pickups like in KA?

Like in Hexen, if we want a weapon to be in the same place for all three classes, three objects need to be placed. In case we go with 1) from my previous post, if you pick up a weapon of which type you have nothing yet, it automatically equips it in that slot. If you already have a weapon of that type, it goes into your backpack and you have the option to toggle the new one as the active one. For the mage, this always means new spells, i.e. a new page written in his spellbook (zero extra weight). For the cleric, in most cases it means a spell which is an extra scroll in his scrollcase (minimal weight), in the remaining cases an upgrade to one of his physical weapons (sharper spikes for his mace, a second poison holder for his serpent's staff that enables him to shoot twice as fast etc), and maybe in a very few select cases an actual new physical weapon. For the fighter, it means new physical weapons which means he lugs around his body weight after a time, but then again he is big and strong. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

[quote="RambOrc":2cbpiis2]I am fine with either of the following systems: 1) the 10 weapon types are hardcoded to numbers, i.e. fireball spells of the mage are always on key nr. 5 etc. I want to mention this system has a certain weakness; if we fill all available slots by weapon/spell types and then someone want to add completely new one (in the game expansion for example), there would be a problem. So I wold vote for 2) either a or b (in fact, probably both ways could be implemented somehow, maybe allowing player toggle between them).

I would go for the first weapon system Ramborc mentioned, the rest are more difficult to implement IMO, and for the first one, we can use code we already have (from KA), with some small modifications as CW and I have discussed <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. This week wasn't very good for me in general, so my implementation and changes were too messy and we'll have to fix and change some things before we have a working system <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I'll focus on working on the HUD for now...

[quote="Firebrand":ssuesqnq]I would go for the first weapon system Ramborc mentioned, the rest are more difficult to implement IMO Well, why a coder shouldn't do something only because it's more difficult? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

LOL something being difficult is neither an argument for doing it. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> At any rate, I am currently working on the concept document and the way weapons/spells are shaping up version 1) will be not only simpler but also cleaner. It might make more sense to leave 2) for TCS which will have a lot fewer weapons and spells than SE.

Oh, okay, I will wait for this concept document then.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":1fu170rr][quote="Firebrand":1fu170rr]I would go for the first weapon system Ramborc mentioned, the rest are more difficult to implement IMO Well, why a coder shouldn't do something only because it's more difficult? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I never said I wouldn't do those, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> As for the concept document, I guess we can wait for it to see what it says about this <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Here's another interesting question. If we are going to have lots of weapons in SE, what should be given by 'gimme weapons' cheat? All of them? Or "best" weapons appropriate for current player level; or should be there be some fixed list of given weapons..

Why do you want to have a weapon cheat at all? KMOD didn't have one either and I don't think KA has one.

[quote="RambOrc":1lkaqv6s]Why do you want to have a weapon cheat at all? KMOD didn't have one either and I don't think KA has one. I didn't say I want to have it; Hexen has it and Vavoom Hexen has it, that's why I ask. If it is not needed, it may be removed. However, I would still leave one for a while, because it eases map testing.

I would also suggest to leave the weapons cheat on, at least for development, it can come in handy for testing the weapons and certain parts of the game IMO, we can remove it (along with any other cheat you think of <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> ) later <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Umm, okay, I made some... no, lots of changes to code; some of them are nice, others could be confusing. Also I cannot guarantee everything will work as always with latest revision. There are some unfinished features, and also some new bugs, perhaps (I hope I didn't screw it too much). I am updating SVN at the moment, will finish soon. Some important changes: 1) made KRPGInventory an extension of Inventory (i.e. merged these two classes). 2) KRPGPlayer Fighter/Cleric/mage classes are again read from decorate; I made this because common progs use Fighter/Cleric/MagePlayer classes in several places so it would be better idea IMO to do replacement, and replacement is currently available only through use of decorate. 3) Made WeaponPickup unused, because it features Korax Arena style pickup which is not needed for SE. 4) Made KRPGWeapon an extension of HexenWeapon (i.e. merged these two classes). 5) Most weapons now are read from decorate as before, because I do not see much need in placing them in progs for now; however, not from common decorate, but from new custom one. 6) Implemented experimental weapon categories; now a weapon class is a child class of some category. For example, WeaponFighterTimonsAxe is a child of WeaponFighterAxe (category class), which is a child of FighterWeapon class, which is a child of extended HexenWeapon. Known bugs - you will not get any new weapons by gimme weapons cheat <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Or, maybe you will, but won't be able to select them. This is probably because we need a new code for weapon selection. I will continue working on this.

Nr. 6 Sounds exactly what I intended. How far is decorate supported in Vavoom?

[quote="RambOrc":26ovp5w8]Nr. 6 Sounds exactly what I intended. Phew.. thanks god <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcdeb.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> [quote="RambOrc":26ovp5w8]How far is decorate supported in Vavoom? AFAIK term "almost everything" describes best how far it is supported. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Sounds good! I'll check it out later when I get back home from work and test it out and report any problems I find <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, nice work. As for decorate support, it still lacks some very specific flags, like stuff for ZDoom or Skulltag, but they are not important for SE IMO <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. The most useful ones are there, I'll be creating some new powerup types after finishing with the HUD, like damage multipliers (and dividers <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->) for spells.

Should SE have secondary weapon attacks? There are some situations where such attacks could be wanted even for Hexen. Fighter's Axe and Hammer could be both used with mana and without mana, however you cannot make them save mana if you want to. They could have secondary attack which force them not use mana no matter what.

That's regulated through the special weapon you choose within a weapon type, timon's axe with mana and timon's axe w/o mana will be two available weapons for the #2 slot for the fighter.

[quote="RambOrc":2wafqcnl]That's regulated through the special weapon you choose within a weapon type, timon's axe with mana and timon's axe w/o mana will be two available weapons for the #2 slot for the fighter. Well, in case of Axe that is reasonable, since it is only difference in damage, but what about Hammer, it can act as melee (w/o mana) or missile (w / mana) weapon, and I'm afraid it would be not very convenient to constantly switch between simple/magic versions in combat.

You don't switch in combat anyway. You decide which of the weapons of a certain type you like and you use that one, I mean 10 weapons hung on a warriors belt is already quite a stretch, we can't make it 100. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> A certain number of spare weapons can be put in your backpack (I guess somewhere between 5-20, to be determined) from where you equip one of a type, so if you absolutely want both hammers you can carry both around, but only have one active on your belt. Since you have a total of 10 weapon types instead of the 4 in the original Hexen, this shouldn't really be much of a hindrance in configuring a flexible arsenal. One more thing, in the specific case of weapons like the hammer it might be that the melee and ranged versions are two different weapon types, I haven't yet finished the matrix of the 30 weapons/spells for the 3 classes. It will all be more clear once I have the matrix to upload.

Okay, one more question then: should there be a possibility to quickly go through available weapons of same category by repeatedly pressing same number key? I need to know this to implement final version of weapons "belt".

I think that's an unnecessary option that would just make the interface more complicated in combat. E.g. you were using a frost shards spell (let's say in weapon slot nr 2) to shoot afrits and then suddenly 3 wendigos pop out of a wall niche in your face. You have a bigass fireball configured for your weapon slot 3, so you just press 3 and fire away to melt the ice monsters. However, you might pump with adrenaline due to their sudden appeareance and might have pressed the key 3 several times. If there were several weapons configured on it to switch, you might suddenly start to cast a small fire pellet with a very long range and high accuracy, but very low damage. Then you start frantically pressing the key 3 to get to your fireball and ooops you are dead. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> The interface you use while in combat should be very simple so that you can concentrate on aiming and moving, not worrying about how to select this or that exact weapon. Determining which weapon or spell of that type goes into a fixed slot will be done in the spellbook or inventory screen which covers the whole screen and pauses the game (having a single player only game has some advantages).

Okay, I did the weapons belt; while there's one weapon per category there shouldn't be any problem and user actually won't see any difference. Now we need to design some sort of weapons selection screen. Any ideas on how it should look like?

This is a difficult question given that we are talking about things that are technically the same but look completely different to the player: - turning pages in a spellbook and deciding which spell(s) to memorize (M) - looking through a number of rune designs to decide which ones to carve into your staff (M) - browsing a scrollcase and putting certain scrolls into your belt (C) - rummaging in a bag of nifty weapon upgrades and decide which ones to mount on your few weapons (C, F) - opening your mansize backpack and pulling out a half dozen swords and axes and decide which ones to buckle to your belt so they can be quickly grasped (F)

[quote="RambOrc":37klk2co]- rummaging in a bag of nifty weapon upgrades and decide which ones to mount on your few weapons (C, F) This one sounds a bit unclear for me. As for all others, this could be like a list where player must put checks by the entries he wants. Ofc, visually those 'lists' will be different. I may try to make a preliminary generic text list, which loos like multipage menu, where you switch between pages (slots) with left/right arrow keys and move cursor with up/down key and select/deselect option by enter.

Generic arsenal, 98% working (as it seems): [img:3t3chn36]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/krpg/shots/arsenal.png[/img:3t3chn36] I created 3 duplicates for Hammer with different names to test this.

Looks good, later we could add some icons for the weapons and maybe even mouse support to choose and it should be ready to go! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Nice work. EDIT: [quote="Crimson Wizard":17lp3ym6][quote="RambOrc":17lp3ym6]- rummaging in a bag of nifty weapon upgrades and decide which ones to mount on your few weapons (C, F) This one sounds a bit unclear for me. Could you please explain this one better? I don't get it neither <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":1w0ry6xo]Looks good, later we could add some icons for the weapons and maybe even mouse support to choose and it should be ready to go! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Actualy this is not supposed to be in final release, it's just for test. Each player class should have its own screen design, like spellbook for mage). Maybe we should add an image of belt itself with 10 slots containing 10 icons on upper side of screen and book/sheet/whatever to make selection in middle-lower part of screen. [quote="Firebrand":1w0ry6xo] [quote="Crimson Wizard":1w0ry6xo][quote="RambOrc":1w0ry6xo]- rummaging in a bag of nifty weapon upgrades and decide which ones to mount on your few weapons (C, F) This one sounds a bit unclear for me. Could you please explain this one better? I don't get it neither <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. To make clear what is not clear to me: I guess RambOrc was speaking of mountable upgrades for weapons, but I was wondering how it should be decided which upgrades are usable for which weapons.

I think not 3 but 5 different graphics will be needed (the 5 bullet points from my eralier post). As for the weapon upgrades, technically those are different weapons, only the player thinks finding a set of really pointy spikes for his mace and upgrading it means he still has the same mace, technically it's just a different mace weapon. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

I paid attention we've got some errors in stats system in latest internal build. [quote="koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-19.pdf":1v0t3nam] The attribute system consists of five attributes that have names straight out of the classic D&D system: strength, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom and constitution. On stats screen we've got: - Speed - Strength - Vitality - Intelligence - Wisdom While Vitality can be the Consitution, is the Speed actually the Dexterity? And I found out that Wisdom is used to determine ranged magic weapons power in most cases, not Intelligence, as stated in concept document. I also got the question. We are going to have 3 sorts of ranged weapons, rouphly: - non-magical ranged weapon, like crossbow or long bow - magically charged staff and wand - offensive spell First case is explained rather clear: [quote="koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-19.pdf":1v0t3nam] Dexterity (DEX) Increases the power of ranged attacks. Two other cases are not so clear: [quote="koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-19.pdf":1v0t3nam] Intelligence (INT) Increases the power of offensive spells. Does this mean pure spell casting or both spellcasting and shooting with staff/wand? Also, no formulas of how these stats affect attack power are given in concept doc. Currently KA formulas are used, but they are based on KA stats progression and I am not sure they will fit SE.

I copied integrally the code that came from KMOD3, so if the formulas are the same, they come from KMOD3, not from KA <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. That's why the stats aren't right neither, I didn't read the latest design document when implementing these features, so it's very possible they are all wrong <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->, we have to fix this for the next internal version, if you are going to work on it, let me know and I'll then focus on the new graphics for the arsenal screen <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":17hdhvft]we have to fix this for the next internal version, if you are going to work on it, let me know and I'll then focus on the new graphics for the arsenal screen <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Well, yes, I am working now on implementing the weapon system how it is described in concept doc; and maybe will add several test weapons.

I've looked over the description of attributes in the concept and found that a) charisma was missing and b) some attributes were 100% useless for some classes, so I have reworked it a bit:

The attribute system The attribute system consists of six attributes that have names straight out of the classic D&D system: strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom and charisma. Strength (STR) Increases the power of melee attacks. Increases movement speed. Dexterity (DEX) Increases the power of ranged (physical) attacks. Increases the speed of physical attacks (melee and ranged). Constitution (CON) Increases the hit point gain when leveling up. Incraeases resistance to poisons and diseases. Intelligence (INT) Increases the power of offensive spells. Increases the size of the SP pool. Wisdom (WIS) Increases the power of non-offensive spells. Increases the regeneration rate of the SP pool. Charisma (CHA) Increases price at which shops buy items from the player and decreases the price they charge the player for items they sell. Reduces the amount of mana or SP needed to cast a spell or fire a weapon.

Regarding the classification of weapons: The mage's staff is melee physical, his wand is melee magic. The spell he charges his staff with and the spells on slots 4-0 are offensive spells. The cleric's first and thirs weapons are melee physical, his second and fourth weapons are ranged physical. The rest are offensive spells. For the fighter, all weapons are physical, either melee or ranged, even if they have a magic effect.

[quote="RambOrc":xxw6w8ym]The mage's staff is melee physical, his wand is melee magic. The wand is melee? What kind of thing it is? I usually imagined a wand like some short magic stick that casts spells.

Oops it should read ranged physical. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

OK then, I'll rework the stats for the players using these descriptions as a base and re implement the system <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, as for balance, we can't really do much on it yet, since not much is done in the mapping side, we can work on it later on development IMO. EDIT: BTW, I'm unable to run KRPG on the latest Vavoom revision, did you (CW) maybe added new properties for decorate and didn't updated the definitions? I'm getting an error when parsing those.

Init: Parsing DECORATE definition files
- VClass::FindField
- VClass::FindFieldChecked
- VPropDef::SetField
- ParseDecorateDef
- ProcessDecorateScripts
- SV_Init
- Host_Init
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Segmentation Violation

Fixed perhaps.

Yep, it works now, thanks! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I'll get to work on fixing the stats for the experience system, once that's done, I'll finish up the HUD and the graphics for the arsenal screen, implement them there and release a new internal alpha so everyone can test it out <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. The bugs I was going to point about the berserking are fixed now too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I first thought they were related to the damage skins, but they work fine now.

Since we have 6 attributes, I suggest the player gets 6 points on normal difficulty, 3 on hard and 12 on easy to distribute at every level up. This also makes our job easier for the auto-distribution. Auto-distribution: cleric gets all 6 stats in same amounts (i.e. 1 of each on normal, 2 of each on easy, 1 of the first three each on odd and 1 of the second three each on even levels on hard), fighter only gets the first 3 stats in even amounts (i.e. 2 of str con and dex at normal, 4 of each on easy, 1 of each on hard), mage gets only second 3 stats in even amounts (i.e. 2 of wis int cha on normal, 4 of each on easy, 1 of each on hard). Manual distribution for players who want to customize will allow much less cookie-cutter configuration like a mage with a lot of dexterity has a very effective wand, or a fighter with a sizable amount of int wis cha can use berserking more often and for longer, etc.

Is auto distribution an option in the upgrade screen? or should it be set somehow else?

It's part of the set we discussed in the past, i.e. to customize your game to have more or less RPG stuff in it. Players who just want to run in with guns blazing, things like this can be set on automatic, working behind the scenes with no user interaction required. I think such stuff should be a new section in the main game menu.

We have following problem with leveling system. Currently experience amount to reach next level is doubled every time, i.e. 1000, 2000, 4000 etc. After 15th level these numbers become really huge. And 22 level is the last player can normally get, because 23 level requires an experience number that cannot be stored in a signed 4-byte integer (there's a point at which variable value drops down into huge negative number according to PC math rules). So, there are following questions: 1) Is doubling exps aim is what we really need? 2) What should be a level limit in SE? Depending on answers we will have to or won't have to change how experience amount is stored.

According to what Ramborc said about not stopping the leveling up, we could only increase the next level mark by (level *1000) to make it faster, but the storing problem there would still be a problem at higher levels, we have to determine a peak level like in KA, but I guess we would have to make some calculations as to which level will be the most high.

At any rate we can try using 2 integers to store experience. This is not impossible, but we just need to know if this needed.

Experience is definitely not double for every level, it only increases slowly. How about resetting exp to zero every time you reach a new level and each level would need e.g. level*1000 exp? Storing total exp is I think only important in three cases: if the player can also lose experience and thus lose levels, if there is a possibility to receive so much experience that it results in more than one level up or if the experience gain possible by a single kill or quest turnin is big enough so that players are reluctant to do it close to reaching the next level. All of which would be covered by a system where you gain levels often with just a bunch of monster kills, and killing bosses would give you levels directly, not experience. Same could be done with bigger sidequests, if you can get 50-100 levels by the end of SE, giving out a level each for finishing the 20 big sidequests wouldn't make that much of a difference in total levels gained. On the other hand, giving levels for bosses and important story milestones would ensure that the player is guaranteed to have a minimum level at any given encounter (e.g. we can count on the player being at least level 20 by the time he fights the end boss).

[quote="RambOrc":1b59zaba] How about resetting exp to zero every time you reach a new level That's how it is being done now. [quote="RambOrc":1b59zaba] Storing total exp is I think only important in three cases: if the player can also lose experience and thus lose levels, if there is a possibility to receive so much experience that it results in more than one level up or if the experience gain possible by a single kill or quest turnin is big enough so that players are reluctant to do it close to reaching the next level. There's a mechanism we have since KA that makes it posible to get correct number of levels by getting a huge lump of experience, so these are not problems at all.

So basically the system is already in place? Just make a cap at level 100 and we'll try to design the game so that realistically you won't be able to get more than 80-90 levels by killing all monsters in all dungeons and doing all sidequests. Looks like the only changes vs the current system will be a) you don't lose exp and levels and b) you can gain not exp but levels for certain quests or kills (e.g. killing a certain important boss in the story will give you two levels no matter whether you are level 12 or level 35 at that time).

Yes, a basic system is implemented, we need to change the bits you mention here, I'll hope to have it fixed it by the next weekend.

Question, should we retain the leveling acquisitions for the cleric and the mage? If you remember in KMOD when the cleric reached level 5, he obtained one spell, when he reached level X he obtained a new weapon, etc. So, should this be kept in or should I remove it from the code?

Nah, that part is not necessary, since we have a lot of villages with shops where players can buy new weapons and stuff with level requirements on them.

Good to know <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->, I've updated the SVN repository with the updated experience system, with auto upgrade available, experience modifier working and the updated stats as described in the current design document, I'll remove the extra stuff from the code and finish the new HUD for the next internal alpha <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Concept document does not mention how stats affect weapon power (damage). They way it is done in code (probably it is copied from KoraxMod?) makes me feel some real doubts. The melee weapon damage is usually calculated using base damage and random damage parts. Base damage is usually greater constant value, random damage is "rolled" using one or two (rarely) value ranges. For example, Fighter's Axe damage (w/o mana) normally is calculated as:

damage = 40 + (P_Random() & 15) + (P_Random() & 7);

Which means : damage = 40 + (0 to 15) + (0 to 7) In KRPG modifiers are introduced, which are based on player stats. A strength, for instance, is use to add more damage. But I feel a bit confused by the way it is used. For melee damage, it is always used as a multiplier for the last part i the expression:

damage = 40 + (P_Random() & 15) + (P_Random() & 7) * (KRPGPlayerBase(Player).strength / 10);

As you can see, (strength/10) factor is aplied only to (P_Random() & 7) member of expression. Another sample, Cleric's Mace. Original expression has 1 base and 1 random parts:

damage = 25 + (P_Random() & 15);

Which means : damage = 25 + (0 to 15) In KRPG we have:

damage = 25 + (P_Random() & 15) * (KRPGPlayerBase(Player).strength / 10);

Again strength factor is applied only to the last member. More, for Fighter's Hammer factor is applied to whole damage:

damage = 60 + (P_Random() & 63);
m_damage = damage * (KRPGPlayerBase(Player).strength / 10);

m_damage is used as a final melee damage there. At first I thouht that rules are to apply factor to the random part, but then I saw that in Axe case it is applied not to random part in whole, but to the last member of expression (see above), and for Hammer it is applied to whole damage; so I have a question, what is this - some kind of rule, or math mistake? NOTE: Missile damage is usually calculated only by rolling a random number in some range, and so multiplier is applied to whole damage normally.

Looks very obviously to be a basic math/thinking error, as it doesn't make any sense. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> I would just put the entire original calculation in a new set of brackets and multiply that by the KRPG value (provided that works for the programming language used).

Oh, okay. BTW, I've got interesting question. Concept we have sais that physical attacks depend on strength (melee) and dexterity (ranged) and magical on intelligence. What about charged (enchanted?) fighter weapons like Axe that have extra magical damage? And what is Hammer ranged attack - is it ranged physical or magical? Same for Quietus.

Without the depictions on the concept document, I'm considering that all of the fighter's projectiles do 'physical' damage, and all the mage and cleric projectiles to be magical, that's why in the source I'm using such values for calculating the damage <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for the calculations of damage, think a bit on how most RPG's work, normally for damage, defense, etc. they make the player 'roll' a dice and determine how effective those are <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I think the current values work fine, I don't feel overpowered weapons (at least not for original maps, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->).

[quote="Firebrand":vkt4v4vg] As for the calculations of damage, think a bit on how most RPG's work, normally for damage, defense, etc. they make the player 'roll' a dice and determine how effective those are <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Question is not, whether to or not to roll a dice, because it is rolled to get a random part of damage. Question is which part to multiply by strength/dex/int factor - whole damage or only rolled random one. This should be covered by concept document, to make it clear design rule. EDIT: Ok, huh, I want to update SVN repository with changes I was working on lately, so I'll make it this way. I make that factor applied to whole damage for now. We can change it later if needed. I just want everything be due strict plan, because currently damage is calculated differently for some weapons.

Fighter's weapons are all physical, regardless of any magic effect on them. A physical weapon means nothing else but that it's damage is modifed by STRor DEX, whereas a spell's damage is modified by INT. The point of the system is, that for the fighter only STR and DEX make sense and for the mage only INT and WIS, but the other two are not completely useless for them. STR and DEX for fighter: a no-brainer as it makes all his attacks stronger and faster. INT and WIS for fighter: since berserking always uses the whole available SP pool and its effect depends on the amount it could use, a larger SP pool through INT means stronger berserking and a faster SP regeneration through WIS means berserking available more often. INT and WIS for mage: another no-brainer as it makes all his spells stronger and allows him to cast them more often (even the offensive spells, since more and faster regenerating SP means he can use Create Mana more often). STR and DEX for mage: STR allows the mage to hit harder with his staff (very close to total uselessness) and allows him to move faster (could be actually a reason for many players to put a bunch of points into STR); DEX makes the wand shoot faster and for higher damage, which would make it a very attractive stat, especially early on when he has only a few spells and they use lots of mana. For the Cleric, STR DEX WIS and INT should be all valid primary attributes and their balance would depend more on his playstyle and on his favorite weapons and spells. CON and CHA should have more or less the same value for each class, with CON favoring a playstyle with more in-your-face combat and being less important for players who always tread carefully and shoot everything from far away and CHA being more important if you don't like to run out of ammo. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ For calculations of weapon damage modifiers: mage 1 mage staff (physical swinging): STR 2 mage wand: DEX 3 mage staff (charged with a spell): INT 4-0 offensive spells: INT cleric 1 mace: STR 2 serpent's staff: DEX 3 (daggers): STR 4 (longbow): DEX 5-0 offensive spells: INT fighter 1 fists: STR 2 axe: STR etc.

A lovely weapon [img:2uv8nah6]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/krpg/shots/toaster.jpg[/img:2uv8nah6]

A basic question, do we want different versions of a weapon or spell type to have different animations?

[quote="RambOrc":12hyvzj9]A basic question, do we want different versions of a weapon or spell type to have different animations? I would say if weapons have really similar effects, like "Single Fireball", "Double Fireball" etc than it is perhaps not so important, but if they have different meaning, like between simple fireball spell, "flame thrower" spell, some "dragon breath" spell, then it is better to have different sprites, or player may get confused or maybe even upset <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

<!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcchoked.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> That's a lovely weapon non the less!! <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> I've finished the new HUD, so as promised, there's a new internal version that also has the latest additions by CW <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, you can find it here: [url:22y3a2xq]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/KoraxRPG_20090225.zip Next stuff to implement, silver and gold pieces dropped by enemies, IMO it's easy to implement since Strife already manages the concept of gold, I'll just make both pickups to extend the 'coin' class and make them give different amounts (silver bars will give 5 coins, gold bars will give 15, if that's ok <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) and we'll make shoppers to work as in Strife too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. AFAIK, the conversation system in KRPG already can mess with the player's inventory, right? After this is implemented, I'll continue my work with the Journal implementation, so be sure to include it's description in a later design document <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. EDIT: Can we use those included 'test weapons' somehow CW?

[quote="Firebrand":pqvgosih]AFAIK, the conversation system in KRPG already can mess with the player's inventory, right? Nope ... <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orchmm.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> I feel that would be my next task then... [quote="Firebrand":pqvgosih] EDIT: Can we use those included 'test weapons' somehow CW? Oops, my bad, my bad. Forgot to mention. "Impulse 23" calls Arsenal menu. Simply bind it to some key, like 'bind V "impulse 23"' in console or config file. Then, in game type "gimme weapons" cheat; open arsenal and select active weapon per slot by hitting enter on desired selection. And ofcourse we need extra option in controls menu for this. Note: not all slots have weapons yet.

With 640x480 base resolution, do you think we can make a journal that's a book open in the middle, i.e. 2 pages at once?

[quote="RambOrc":2dsz2ron]With 640x480 base resolution, do you think we can make a journal that's a book open in the middle, i.e. 2 pages at once? Definitely.

There you go. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Updated conversation script manual: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/docs/conscript.htm">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... script.htm</a><!-- m -->

Small announcement ppl, I won't be around during the next week, it's mid-term exams week and I'll be busy as hell studying for Digital Signal Processing (it's as hard as it sounds <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->), and other stuff. I'll be back by Sunday, if you really need something PM me or send me a mail, thanks! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I want to say couple of things about sprites found in latest KRPG internal release. Burning death sprits, that is. I noticed that most monsters have 100% similar sprites, starting from particular frame, in other words there is a dozen of copies of same pics. This is not good. I believe there should be only one instance of geneic "burning death" frames that all monsters should use (when applicable). Secondly I was rather surprised seeing burning sprites for wendigo. I thought ice does not burn. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

Yes, there are some inconsistencies with those <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, but fortunately we can fix them now <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. BTW, I've committed some changes I made to the SVN repository, tomorrow I'll still be a bit busy, but it's better to keep up with updates too <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.

Haven't you tested Confusion and Terror spells yet? <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Yes, I have <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, the only thing I don't really like about confusion is that you make the player to jump, I preferred the old version better (where the player would only "spin") <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. As for terror, I like it too, the idea is good, I like that the player won't attack at all <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, but could there be a way to make it so the player ran from the source of the attack that casted terror on him? That would be the only addition that would make it cool! I think it can be done, but we need to make some research and combine methods to make it work <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":110mxct5]Yes, I have <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, the only thing I don't really like about confusion is that you make the player to jump, I preferred the old version better (where the player would only "spin") <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Well, actually new one makes it press all buttons randomly, and screwes movement controls. I also made it spin the view, but something went wrong and I disabled it. Maybe fix tha later. Jumping could be removed ofc too. [quote="Firebrand":110mxct5]As for terror, ..., but could there be a way to make it so the player ran from the source of the attack that casted terror on him? Why, that would be most simple...

Small update on the work on KRPG, I've been unable to sit down and work on something for a good while, real life stuff I have to attend (as always <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->), I hope to have some free time on the next week to implement the sprites of the magma serpent <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I've also implemented some new NPCs, I'll see what else I can work on.

Trees: besides fixing the purple "halo" on some of the trees, they should be taller IMO. I'd suggest trying to scale them to 150% of their current size and see how that feels in-game.

Sure! No prob, I'll try that and you will be able to test that (and a couple other things <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->) with the next internal version, I'll finish importing the sprite work I can today, tonight I'll upload the internal version, I've already included some sprites for the magma serpent and some really bad test sprites from dungeon keep that I tried to fix for hexen, but my 'fix' didn't worked out pretty well, heh! <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

When I am trying to compile progs I am getting weird error in Actor.FlagsAndAppearance. Compiler sais that method A_ChangeFlag "is already declared final and cannot be overriden", however that method is not mentioned anywhere else, nor in progs, neither in engine. I am using latest SVN revisions for both KRPG and Vavoom. EDIT: well, I solved that by temporarily removing small part of the code in my local version of SE (the one seems to be unused, so nothing bad happened). Also I fixed the evil typo that prevented Journal from appearing on screen <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. However, Journal still not working, some strange screen appears and when I press a key game crashes. Also, Firebrand, I saw there's a code that calls Upgrade and Arsenal screen from Journal screen. Not sure about Upgrade screen, but Arsenal one is wrong. You create an instance of ArsenalScreen, which is rather abstract class (maybe I forgot to make it one), actual class should be derived from ArsenalScreen and chosen depending on player class. Currently there's ArsenalScreenGeneric class for all player classes. Plus, AS must have some extra references. I really suggest you call ClientGame::ShowArsenalScreen instead whenever you want to show Arsenal, this will ensure there won't be any glitches.

Thanks for the info! I'll try to fix it ASAP, my main focus now is to finish the Rolls sprites so we can begin with new monsters too <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. As for the problem you get with compiling, I think it's because you need the latest VCC compiler, if you don't have it, let me know and I'll upload it to KDEV <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":vbiyk2b8]As for the problem you get with compiling, I think it's because you need the latest VCC compiler, if you don't have it, let me know and I'll upload it to KDEV <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Hmm... yes, maybe I just forgot to rebuild it. And - I have full Vavoom project so I can make it myself <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

When reviewing last KRPG internal build resources, I noticed there are many glitches in sprites, like teal pixels, that should be transparent; also some magma stalker sprites have black line on the border, and Ettin Swordsman has some extra line in the bottom with pink and red pixels.

Yes, the problem with the sword ettin comes directly from the sprite sheet Rolls made, I'll have to manually fix those ASAP. As for the magma serpent, I didn't noticed any problems with the sprites and I remember to make some tests of it in-game. What do you mean with teal pixels <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

I checked stalker's sprites more precisely and found that it is just picture viewer displays some part of png image improperly. BTW, maybe it's because image is saved as Layer. I usually save them as indexed colour images. As for teal pixels, check icedf5.png for example. There are few teal pixels on wendigo's body.

OK, I've got what you mean with teal pixels, I'll give it a check and try to fix those too. It won't be done immediately, I'll do it as I notice them in-game <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Okay, I finished rewriting monster AI mainly, so now it is practically safe to make internal releases... so to say. Latest SVN revision now has the line special implemented for calling Travel Map. Special ID is 500. Simply apply this to any line and by crossing/using (depending on your setting) that line player will call the travel map.

[quote="Crimson Wizard":33gcluyc]now it is practically safe to make internal releases... so to say. ROFL <!-- s=D> --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_clap.gif" alt="=D>" title="Applause" /><!-- s=D> -->

I tried to add 500 for a linedef, WadAuthor only accepts values up to 255.

[quote="RambOrc":2l5whasp]I tried to add 500 for a linedef, WadAuthor only accepts values up to 255. Yes, that's true. For WadAuthor you'll have to define this action special in *.acs file and use it from map script (line calls a script and script calls this action special). But anyway, you won't be able to use this until new internal release is made.

Uploaded a new internal release <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. [url:2ngmr03b]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/KoraxRPG_20090721.zip

Sample travel map data is missing; Travel map graphics is missing (arrows and background), travel music is missing. EDIT: Ok, I am reuploading the fixed package myself <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Heh! Looks like Doombuilder cannot allow action specials > 255 as well. So, it is only possible through script in any editor you use. example:

special 500:TravelMap(0);

script 1 (void)
{
	TravelMap();
}

And there is no way to use lower special numbers?

[quote="RambOrc":2ed9558h]And there is no way to use lower special numbers? Unfortunately all numbers 1-255 are used by common action specials. Well, maybe there are few numbers still unused somewhere in that range, but I wouldn't use them anyway, because Vavoom may use them for some new specials in future. BTW, that was the reason I had to hack ACC.exe (script compiler) for KA and KRPG projects. In case you forgot, you should use that compiler instead original one if you use any special with id > 255 on your map: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/utils/acc/acc.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... cc/acc.zip</a><!-- m -->

What we could try to do, is to ask support for bigger number of specials in Doom Builder 2, it might get implemented <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":jsw3phv6]What we could try to do, is to ask support for bigger number of specials in Doom Builder 2, it might get implemented <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. There may be a restriction in map format for this, like only 1 byte for line special.

I noticed there are some more bad bugs in latest release, so I made another one, again <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/KoraxRPG_20090724.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 090724.zip</a><!-- m --> Firebrand, please notice these new resources I put there: travel map related (sample data, graphics and music) and also node sprites (copied them from KA). There're still some weird bugs related to monster pathfinding (walking along routes), but on maps without path nodes everything should be fine.

OK, I've been fixing small bugs in the code here and there <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, be sure to update your local code repository to get them <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. I'll be away from home for the whole weekend, on Monday I'll resume my work on the code and once all the nasty bugs left are fixed, I'll return to work on sprites and import them as actors to the game, have a good weekend everyone! <!-- sorc^^ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc^^.gif" alt="orc^^" title="orc^^" /><!-- sorc^^ -->

Some news, I was experimenting with small Strife mod, and testing my Conversation system there, which made me finally implement person's variables and conditions; I cannot guarantee last ones are working 100 % fine, but simple conditions work nice. I will copy all my changes to KRPG in a few days, for now a notice of what I could get from using a conversation script: - multiple conversations per npc, active one can be set from map script; can be useful if person's dialog must totally change at some point (like all the old choice options go away and totally new ones appear) to ease writing complex conversations (and prevent the mess in script text); - checking if player has something in inventory (items, gold, etc), as well as adding/removing items. - travelling to another map by calling a command from conversation script (used it to create a Boatman NPC who rides you to different locations); - making new choices appear after some actions by setting persons's variables, like get a quest from NPC 1 to speak with NPC 2, speak with NPC 2, come back to 1st and he will already know what you did, etc. Oh, and second thing. I checked used line special numbers and found out there is actually 2 or 3 dozens of free indices yet, those below 255; so actually I think it will be safe to use several of unused ones for our new action specials, like TravelMap special.

Sounds good <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it would be nice to at least see that small Strife project, you know, just for curiosity <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Have you decided if you will finish it as a small hub?

Uh, Firebrand, what was this idea to change Vavoom project version to MSVS 2008? Now I won't be able to use it <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->

Yes you can <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->: [url:32myavyu]http://www.microsoft.com/express/vc/ Download the express editions (that's what I'm actually using myself), I changed it because it has some more optimizations that help to performance <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. Let me know if something doesn't goes right and I'll help you to set it up <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":3v3d7cqk] Let me know if something doesn't goes right and I'll help you to set it up <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. Hmm, maybe later... Well, anyway, here it is a Strife mod I was talking about. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/strifemod.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ifemod.zip</a><!-- m --> I included vavoom.exe and basev folder to it, because I was using an SVN revision and not a public version of executable. All you need is to add vlauncher.exe (maybe) , STRIFE1.wad and VOICES.wad from Strife. Instructions to pass the "quest" and see most of it: - speak to Boatman and run through all the topics just to get some info. - find a way to map2, there find Harris and accept his mission. - return to Boatman on map1 and ask him to ride you to Ghost Creek (map30). - kill all the acolytes there by any means possible and speak to smugglers. - return to Harris (ask Boatman to ride you back to town) and he will mention about 2nd mission, but mod still lacks a map for it <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Also, if you like fun, when in town try to come closer to any of the Bright Red Acolytes to see how City Patrol demands to show ID. If you pickup Registration Card, that lies near Harris (for test purposes only), they will stop doing that. Oh, well, what does all this doing in the KRPG thread... <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught2.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> conversation stuff wll be implemented in KRPG as well very soon.

Updated SVN with new conversation script. Updated the document as well: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/documents/conscript.htm">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... script.htm</a><!-- m --> Some rules changed.... but since nobody seem to write any conversation scripts yet, that shouldn't be a problem <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Made Travel Map line special number 168. This will be used in next internal release.

Uhh, sorry to ask it like this, but could you please write a small conversation? I've tried to fix the ones supplied on the data.pk3 files in the internal build, but I was unable to fix them... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: -->

[quote="Firebrand":2qg5ylms]Uhh, sorry to ask it like this, but could you please write a small conversation? I've tried to fix the ones supplied on the data.pk3 files in the internal build, but I was unable to fix them... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Hmm, only thing that has to be fixed there is "person" statement, it should be changed to "conitem", like this:

person NPCRambOrc 1

changed to

conitem NPCRambOrc 1

Other things look ok, though maybe somewhat excessive, like "none" keyword in each "say" statement after quoted line (they may be removed). Anyway, you better tell what problems do you meet while editing conversations, then I could know which things are not so obvious there.

Well, that was the line I was having problems with mainly, the rest I understood fine, the documentation is clear enough (for me at least <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->). Thanks for the help! <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Now that you mention those 'none' words, did they had any meaning there? I don't find any myself <!-- s:-s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /><!-- s:-s --> . EDIT: Another thing I don't like too much are those 'myself' words, they make me confuse a bit when reading the conversations.

[quote="Firebrand":2amobr7n] Now that you mention those 'none' words, did they had any meaning there? I don't find any myself <!-- s:-s --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_eh.gif" alt=":-s" title="Eh?" /><!-- s:-s --> . It's the place for voice file. [quote="Developers Manual":2amobr7n] Cue_voice is an optional name (case insensitive) of a sound entry in SNDINFO or file in PK3 (without extension) to be played. It can be "none" to underline that no voice should be played, but later I decided to allow skip this keyword if wanted, because it can be too tiresome to put it everywhere. [quote="Firebrand":2amobr7n] EDIT: Another thing I don't like too much are those 'myself' words, they make me confuse a bit when reading the conversations. Same thing, these are optional. When writing those samples I made person's speech alternate with player's one, so I put all the keywords that are actually optional and needed only in some particular cases. They stand for

[who [to_whom]]

part of "say" command. If you want only NPC speaking to player, you may simply skip these too. You better check conversations in the Strife mod, I made them maximal clean.

I've been testing all those demo maps you made, there are some crashes with actor tasks here and there, I will try to fix them myself, but you might want to check some of those too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":1nllih9j]I've been testing all those demo maps you made, there are some crashes with actor tasks here and there, I will try to fix them myself, but you might want to check some of those too <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. First hand that possibly can be because I made some changes to them, but map scripts were not updated. Here I uploaded latest versions of my demo maps: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/maps/krpgdemo.wad">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... pgdemo.wad</a><!-- m --> <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/maps/gardens.wad">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ardens.wad</a><!-- m --> Anyway, it's better to know what are these crashes exactly, last time I was testing them everything was ok.

There was a crash in IntelligenActor::OrderWalkPath and another one (I don't remember where, but I'll retest it <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->). Anyway, I'll download these and test them out again and report the crashes I find. EDIT: I found the other one! It's this:

- (engine.Thinker.Spawn)
- VLevel::SpawnThinker
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.RedBishop.A_RedBishopDoBlur)
- VEntity::SetState
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.BlackBishop.A_BlackBishopCastSpell)
- VEntity::SetState
- VEntity::AdvanceState
- VObject::ExecuteFunction
- (game.BlackBishop.Tick)
- VThinker::Tick
- VLevel::TickWorld
- SV_Ticker
- ServerFrame
- Host_Frame
Log: Doing C_Shutdown
Log: Doing CL_Shutdown
Log: firebrand left the game

Log: Doing SV_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GNet
Log: Doing delete GInput
Log: Doing V_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GAudio
Log: Doing T_Shutdown
Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown
Log: Doing delete GSoundManager
Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture
Log: Doing R_ShutdownData
Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown
Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown
Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo
Log: Doing FL_Shutdown
Log: Doing W_Shutdown
Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData
Log: Doing ShutdownDecorate
Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit
Log: Doing VName::StaticExit
Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown


ERROR: Segmentation Violation
Z_Free after Z_Shutdown