Many of the ideas of the original Korax' Heritage concept (which is nearly a decade old) have been implemented in commercial games over the years, many of these features in a much more professional way than we ever could (like a huge seamlessly connected world, epic storyline with different outcomes depending on the player's choices, etc). However, there is one very specific and fundamental feature of the Korax' Heritage concept that has not been implemented in any game up to this day: cross-breeding a 3D first person shooter with a fantasy RPG. There are many action-RPGs out there, but they are all RPGs in the first place, and don't offer a simple and quick-paced fighting engine like first person shooters do. And while some shooters did add a couple of RPG elements, most of them didn't go even as far as KMOD does. Thus, a Korax RPG could still offer something that's unique, and offer it for a world that has been dropped by the commercial developer. Another strong feature of the Korax RPG is how it approaches the mixture: acknowledging there is no "perfect balance" because each gamer is different, it allows the player to mix the two elements within every single game between the pre-defined limits. A player who is very good in first person shooters can concentrate on that element of the game, set most RPG features to automatic (e.g. skill distribution when leveling up) or discard them altogether (e.g. doing sidequests and exploring dungeons), and breeze through the game more with his motoric skills than any collected gear – while it is easier to defeat a uber-heresiarch on level 50 with tier 5 magic weaponry that takes 10% of his life in a single shot, it is also possible to defeat this boss on level 10 with a tier one regular weapon that needs 500 successful hits to finish him off. On the other hand, the player can choose to explore every dungeon to the last cell, find and finish every small quest and reach the highest possible level and acquire the best possible gear before attempting to face the final foe. For this end, every single hub in the game will have a quick punch through path that allows the player to skip most of the exploration and fights and advance quicker in the main storyline. Since it is possible to travel back to previous hubs, the player can return to easier areas any time to boost levels and acquire money for better gear, and tackle difficult quests when he is stronger. In many RPGs, the player gets the first couple of levels very fast and it is exciting to level up and unlock new abilities. However, after a time leveling slows down until it virtually stops. KMOD made this mistake too. In Korax RPG, leveling up should keep on relatively frequently all through the game. The player should be able to reach 50-100 levels throughout the whole game, with the time between levels staying more or less the same after the first dozen levels. So as not to completely unbalance the game, increasing in level should add only a slight boost to the player's statistics and abilities, like doubling all stats every 10-20 levels. If there are any more areas you'd like to see covered by this concept, post your questions in this thread.

Well I for one am really excited just reading this. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> I can't really say what should or should not go into this MOD (but RambOrc I enjoyed 100% of what you've just put on the table <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->), but I guess I'll share what I have planned for Dark Realms. Hopefully my ramblings add other stuff to put in. In my project, I'm pretty much looking for the same thing you are RambOrc: cross-breeding FPS and RPG. Originally I was planning to make the whole thing an epic RPG, jam-packed with side-quests and scores of weapons and everything (plus I also wanted to merge the 3 classes into 1), but sadly I don't have the coding expertise to do this, plus I tried hunting for some amateur programmers but that never went anywhere... So instead of shelving the whole project like I originally did last year, I opted for a more realistic and practical approach: I streamlined the ambitious - that which I couldn't accomplish on my own, and changed my goals from doing stuff I couldn't do alone, to doing stuff I did best. So in that sense it's still a FPS, but I added lots of dialogue and (I hope!!!) open-endedness to it. Plus as an honour for Strife my MOD will also have 3 endings, well 4 if you include dying. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And this reminds me... maybe if we have enough time we could incorporate the multiple endings into SE and TSP? I know it's a lot of hard work, but in concept it's probably best for what we're striving for anyway. Think about it: since there would be many classes, and a LOT of side-quests and optional dungeons, there would also be many objectives and factions, each one you do affecting the world environment piece by piece. One by one these effects don't do much, but once you do many then your fate in this world becomes much clearer, to the point where perhaps there are some goals in the game that you had the chance to do but now it's impossible (like, if you join an assassin's guild and slay the king, then you cannot join the Imperial Legion, but if you join the Imperial Legion instead then you must crack down the assassin guild, or get access to royal intelligensia, etc. Or say choose neither, live as a hermit and you win the game when you die). I so wanted to do this for Dark Realms but again I'm a 1-man show armed with just wadauthor and wintex. <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: --> O and Cakewalk Home Studio and Paintbush, can't forget those. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> O yes, another idea I had: how about the character ages and eventually dies? I know it's highly unlikely the player will even play that long, but it would add a sense of mortality to the game, currently of which I've only seen in The Sims 2. Say, the character can choose his age, anything below 18 will give him more time but his starting stats may be a bit lower, whereas anything about 50, he's have high stats (because if all the experience he accumulated over the years) but not as much time. -- it's a good balance.\ O yes, and another thing that personally just [u:1zre4z49][size=200:1zre4z49]TERRIFIES[/size:1zre4z49][/u:1zre4z49] (sorry for too big letters <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->) if, over the end of the 2000s and dawn of the 2010s, the Hexen community simples fades to oblivion. We just won't have that fanbase, and all this would just be for ourselves and only us could appreciate our masterpiece. Christ I'm really scared that if we don't finish this in a years then all the Hexen fans will just give up and fade away. <!-- s8-[ --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_shifty.gif" alt="8-[" title="Anxious" /><!-- s8-[ --> PLEASE promise me you won't do this yourselves guys! <!-- s[-o< --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_pray.gif" alt="[-o<" title="Pray" /><!-- s[-o< --> Which brings me to my last point: when swamped with aspirations, do what I did: streamline the project and find an easier, equally gratifying, implementation. The project will be done sooner and will require less educational training. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

Come on slackers, you all need to comment this concept so the final version can be written!

BTW RambOrc, did you enjoy the suggestions I made just above? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

From reading the concept you posted here, I can clearly see the combination of both worlds RPG and FPS games, I support the idea of allowing the player to choose or balance how much of each kind of gameplay he wants for himself <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, nice one! I also like the "always growing levels" thing, it's always boring to keep playing an RPG just because of the story than the character development, but this will require us to think better which abilities will be obtained throughout the character's development, because we won't have hundreds of spells to place for 50-100 levels total, and if the player keeps growing without getting new stuff, it's boring too IMO (it's the whole point of leveling system IMO), of course, we could combine this with a set of interesting weapons the player won't be able to use on lower levels (or something else <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). As for 4th's ideas, I think we could make multiple endings if the story allows for it, it shouldn't be too complicated to do if we start the map developments knowing them all and making space for them IMO. As for characters aging up, it would be difficult to control how much a character grows up through the game IMO, and what would be the point of it? I can't find any possible uses for it, maybe if you name a few we can discuss this further <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->. As for your vision of the future (that terrifies you), I think we can finish Korax RPG before 2999 <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> . One thing not covered in your description, how will the player progress through the game (I know we'll use hubs), but will there be hubs for every sidequest? or just a main hub where we'll place all maps in? also, what will be the progress of the story, will it advance automatically after certain events are complete or the events will happen on a certain time (I remember we talked about adding time shifts days, months, years, etc.)?

I apologize for the delay but now I will answer your questions as well as I can. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [quote="Firebrand":3jjjss4u]I also like the "always growing levels" thing, it's always boring to keep playing an RPG just because of the story than the character development, but this will require us to think better which abilities will be obtained throughout the character's development, because we won't have hundreds of spells to place for 50-100 levels total, and if the player keeps growing without getting new stuff, it's boring too IMO (it's the whole point of leveling system IMO), of course, we could combine this with a set of interesting weapons the player won't be able to use on lower levels (or something else <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). Personally my favourite "leveling up" systems are the once which, in fact, don't even have a "level" attribute. I think the best example is Betrayal at Krondor, where there's no such thing as a "level 2 mage" or a "level 16 warrior": the only thing that goes up are the skills themselves. That way, you can have one character that excels diabolically at swordfighting, but utter shit at lockpicking, so the swordfighing would be considered at "100% skill" because he's already a master at it, while lockpicking is at 0%. You can't balance it out and say he's a 50% fully-developed character: it just doesn't make sense! That said, I also think that some stats should, in a small way, affect other stats. Take me, for example. I've been playing guitar for about 5 years, and I would consider myself let's assume 30% at it (compared to Steve Vai or Eddie Van Halen <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->). However, I've only been playing bass and drums for altogether about 6 months (let's assume they're both at 5%). Because of my previous guitar playing, I found it easier to pick up the bass than the drums, so I could progress on bass faster than I could on drums. Thus, if I were an RPG character, let's say for every 5% of experience I had on guitar, I add an additional 1% to the bass, so this means my bass stat is really at 11%! Fuck I hope I make sense. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> [quote="Firebrand":3jjjss4u]As for 4th's ideas, I think we could make multiple endings if the story allows for it, it shouldn't be too complicated to do if we start the map developments knowing them all and making space for them IMO. For me, a healthy minimum number of endings is 2: either follow the good guys, or the bad guys. Anything else is replayability bonus. [quote="Firebrand":3jjjss4u]As for characters aging up, it would be difficult to control how much a character grows up through the game IMO, and what would be the point of it? The point would be to add a sense of mortality or real life to the game. Since the player in this case does not live forever, he must finish all his goals before he dies, and he cannot procrastinate. Besides, I don't think it would be that difficult: just use a real-time timer that ticks how long the player has been playing, and when the timer exceeds a certain timeframe, then his stats very slowly (so very slowly) start to decay. Then eventually, when his stats become too low, he must either do what he can, or kneel over to the corner and simply die. That said, the player would still have LOADS of time to finish the game, to the point where aging is negligible but still a concern. Here's my proposal: assuming we implement this, and the player chooses to start the game on his character's 18th birthday, that he will have about 730 hours to live (which totals about 1 month in real time, if you play the game 24/7 without rest, which is physically suicidal). This could best be used on an "easy" skill, so the player doesn't have to worry about old age at all. But, assuming the character instantly dies at age 100, this means the player ages 1 year after every 9 hours of playing. However, if the player chooses to start the game at a later age, so he starts the game with higher stats, suppose at age 50, the player will only have about 285 hours to play until he dies (12 days nonstop). Please ask more questions and I will try to defend my idea even more clearly. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> [quote="Firebrand":3jjjss4u]One thing not covered in your description, how will the player progress through the game (I know we'll use hubs), but will there be hubs for every sidequest? or just a main hub where we'll place all maps in? also, what will be the progress of the story, will it advance automatically after certain events are complete or the events will happen on a certain time (I remember we talked about adding time shifts days, months, years, etc.)? I would personally prefer to have just 1 cluster in the MAPINFO lump. That way, no data is lost when the player progress through the game. Intermissions can safely take place during the one cluster, as happened once in Strife, when Macil gives the player his first briefing (IIRC). Plus, the player would want to revisit the older levels again, like the starting town, to meet up with old friends and see what new stuff is happening.

I am against aging player. IMO that do not fit into the plot. Hexen-style game should be played fast, it is not many-years-long-quest. A month, a half of the year - that's enouph.

I also like the "stats affecting other stats" thing, that way we could get rid of "class restrictions" and have a mage who can wield armor too, at the cost of, let's say, intelligence or something... that way you could personalize your character even more, depending which stats you select to upgrade some other will have to stop, it's not very different from what we are doing in KMod, the only difference would be that all the stats would have to sum a certain limit number depending the class or any other parameter we come up with <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. With your explanation of aging I can see where you want to get to, but I agree with Crimson Wizard, the style of gameplay needs to be faster to suit a FPS game, I'm sure there are a lot of RPG games where the story is so long that you need a month to finish just a side quest (at least that's my own experience with NWN), but if we are cross breeding an FPS and a RPG game we need to keep elements from those two balanced IMO, it would be nice for Serpent Power maybe, but not for Korax RPG.

Comments window is closing in a couple of days, make sure you post all your feedback and questions by then.

Actually, I don't have a comment, more than I have a question: how are we handling weapons in the RPG? Unless we already have a plan, what I propose is the following: implement as many weapons as possible (maybe around 50), but arrange them in the game so that any class can find and use them (thus no class restrictions). Obviously, though, the better a player's ability at a certain stat, the more effective the weapon governed by that staff will be. Take these scenarios: 1: Fighter with HIGH magic uses bloodscourge pretty well. 2: Fighter with LOW magic can pretty much only use the bloodscourge as a poking stick. 3: Mage with LOW magic uses the bloodscore rather poorly, but it can still work. 4: Mage with HIGH magic is phenomenal at the bloodscourge. This wide variety of weapons may seem intimidating at first, though most of them will probably just be variants of the same basic concept, like: BLADES: Dagger*; Shortsword*; Longsword; Lance (where as they progress, get greater range and go more damage) AXES: One-handed*; Two-handed (ditto) BLUNT: Fists; Club; Spiked Gauntlets; Mace of Contrition SPEARS: Mage's staff* (when used by someone with low magic), Javelin*, Crossbow, Longbow, Boomstick (perhaps a primitive firearms? Hey the Chinese had made gunpower as early as the 12th century, perhaps even earlier <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->) * The player can also throw these, making this throwing option a weapon in its own right. The list can go on, but I think you get the idea. Yeah I only mentioned melee weapons, but the same can apply to magic spells or oaths to the gods or whatever. If any of you are interested in this idea I can propose a massive list of those 50 weapons I talked about but it'll have to wait, it's like 11 PM here and I have an exam tomorrow, shouldn't even be here LOL. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> Also, another thing I wanted to mention... about the adverts I've been posting outside the Hexen community... maybe I could also be head of marketing for this project? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> EDIT: Probably the first criticism I'll get from the weapons proposal is that it is too RPG-leaning, not active enough for the FPS-oriented aspect of the game. Well, let me just say that, actually, it works for both RPG and FPS. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> It works for RPG, obviously, in that you must develop your stats to get better at the weapons you CHOOSE to use. But, it works for the FPS aspect in that, if the player just wants to get into the orgasm and fight fight fight, he will crawl through every dungeon to FIND the BEST weapon. For me, the difference between the [color=red:22jpq7xz]FPS aspect of this idea[/color:22jpq7xz] and the [color=blue:22jpq7xz]RPG aspect[/color:22jpq7xz] is the difference between [color=red:22jpq7xz]collecting individual pieces of the superweapon by fighting your way through them[/color:22jpq7xz], or [color=blue:22jpq7xz]earning the ENTIRE superweapon after doing a quest, but having to practice practice practice with it in order to get the most out of it[/color:22jpq7xz]. Hope that clarifies. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

I think it's a great idea, but I don't think we can work on 50 weapons <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> , we have many artists and programming power <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , but it's impossible to make 50 weapons for a single game with our resources and time to develop the project, I would look a bit more conservative about this and make 20/25 weapons AT THE MOST, I know we all would like to have 50 weapons (I know I would like to make that, believe me <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), but it's not that easy for our team to develop this on a short time, and looking at the situation, if our RPG doesn't arrives (at least in a beta stage) in 2 years at the most, people will lose interest in the project, so we have a short time to make A LOT of things in most departments (mapping, programming and art), even when we already have some things polished and decided, we still need to handle a lot of other aspects on the game IMO. As for you being the marketing guy on the team, I support that, you've been doing a nice work, I'm sure we'll have some nice things for advertising the project <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->. I have more ideas on my head, but right now I can't post them (I'm at work), I'll polish somethings on them and post them later or tomorrow <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="Firebrand":2yckz94k]I think it's a great idea, but I don't think we can work on 50 weapons <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> , we have many artists and programming power <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> , but it's impossible to make 50 weapons for a single game with our resources and time to develop the project, I would look a bit more conservative about this and make 20/25 weapons AT THE MOST, I know we all would like to have 50 weapons (I know I would like to make that, believe me <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), but it's not that easy for our team to develop this on a short time, and looking at the situation, if our RPG doesn't arrives (at least in a beta stage) in 2 years at the most, people will lose interest in the project, so we have a short time to make A LOT of things in most departments (mapping, programming and art), even when we already have some things polished and decided, we still need to handle a lot of other aspects on the game IMO. Wow this whole quote is just one long sentence, LOL! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> But yeah you're right, 50 is a bit too much for our time constainsts right now (maybe we can add the 50 long after the first release as a plug-in? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->). Anyway, I think 20-25 weapons will be fine enough anyway, I think we have that many weapons incorporated into Korax Arena anyway... HEY! To make life easier for us, since Korax Arena already has a few custom weapons of its own, why not implement them into the RPG as well? Let me put it this way: Korax Arena has a total of (excluding discs and flechettes) 48 weapons: 8 weapons for 6 classes. But the Marine has no role in the RPG, so this brings the list down to 40 weapons. Obviously we'll want to implement all the original Hexen Classes' weapons, they alone make 24 weapons. The other 16 weapons will be coming from the Heretic and the Witchhunter (sp?). In the end going down this route is probably the most economical and time-consuming, though one major problem is that these weapons aren't in the least bit new. It may turn off many long-time Heretic/Hexen fans all too familiar with these weapons, who want to see new ones instead. What do you guys think? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> P.S.: For any members who want to see the list of KA weapons, go to this directory in KDev: /koraxdev/arena/weapontable_20050727.zip...

You can read the updated concept document at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2007-06-08.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -06-08.pdf</a><!-- m --> Please post here any comments and questions regarding it.

I've begun to read it right now, and I must say RambOrc you did an excellent job! The text is very clear and consise, but I think I found a point of contradiction: [quote="Shortcuts":2nkr4y0j]For this end, every single hub in the game will have a quick punch through path that allows the player to skip most of the exploration ... . Since it is possible to travel back to previous hubs, the player can return to easier areas any time to boost levels... That contradicts this passage a little later: [quote="Map Structure":2nkr4y0j]Technically seen, the game will be a collection of hubs. This means that after a certain point, the player can't return to previous areas... Or is there something I don't understand? But any rate you should clarify these two points a bit more. P.S.: I think that instead the "hubs" should be referred to as "chapters" during gameplay, to add to the RPG balance. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> P.S.S.: Is this file going to be made public? Or is for our eyes only forever?

Yeah, that "Map structure" paragraph is rather confusing.

1) The first quoted paragraph is from the old version of the text and I didn't notice it during the rewrite, it should read "since it is possible to travel back to previous maps of a hub". 2) Ofc the hubs will be called chapters or episodes or something. There will be a larger story unit as well, naming suggestions for both tiers are welcome. 3) It is for the devteam only. It can be released once the game is finished, but not during development. 4) I've been thinking about whether completed objects of the main storyline should give exp, lvl or both - the first has advantages for the quick runthrough types, the second has more advantages for those that do all little quests. If the game would have a basic switch at start choosing between more RPG or more FPS, this could depend on that. Now that all Qs this far have been answered, bring out the next round.

[quote="RambOrc":2kbt1q9g]4) I've been thinking about whether completed objects of the main storyline should give exp, lvl or both - the first has advantages for the quick runthrough types, the second has more advantages for those that do all little quests. If the game would have a basic switch at start choosing between more RPG or more FPS, this could depend on that. My view is that it should be neither. EXP and LVLs would be most substantially earned piece-by-piece while you are fulfilling the quest, instead of just in one large lump sum once you finish it. And let's not forget the player may also get important items or "puzzle pieces" as rewards for following the main quest.

I think that EXP could be obtained when finishing sidequests or when finding some important item that completes the main quest a bit (since, I imagine some of these items will need HARD battles to be found <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->), also we could give the player EXP points when completing certain puzzles or something else. As for names for tiers, I'll think a bit about that and post a suggestion ASAP.

I'm guessing by "tier" you mean "hub" <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->. But anyway, I think the hubs should progress in a "crisis solved, new crisis introduced" format, if you know what I mean. Ok, I'm guessing you dont <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> so let's assume SE has 4 hubs. Here's what I propose, in the vaguest way possible: HUB 1: Begins by introducing only the main character. As you progress, you learn a little more and more of the setting, and what the problems are. But you don't really learn about what you have to do to solve it until it's over. HUB 2: The "rising action." The more you progress through this hub, the more doomed the world looks. Crisis after crisis keeps coming, and sometimes it's hard telling whether you're winning or losing the main quest (though in reality you're always "fulfilling" it). Perhaps this hub ends once you see a glimmer of hope. HUB 3: The "climax." You learn more of this "glimmer of hope." Then, all of a sudden, the world doesn't seem do doomed after all. The main quest is clearer than ever, and perhaps this hub ends once you discover the evil's main weakness. HUB 4: The "falling action." Now there's no turning back: time to exploit this weakness and combat the evil face to face! Ends with you saving the day, the world, the galaxy, whatever, and the credits roll along with a cinematic of you losing your virginity to the beautiful princess. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> At least this is how I organized my mods.

My point was that I want some control on what minimum lvl a player is at certain stages of the game, so that design can be based on minimum requirements.

I've been working a bit on the concept document again, here is the new chapter called "Game Structure":

The game is organized into main sections called Books, each Book including several Chapters. Technically seen, a Chapter is the same as a hub, the first being the story integrated designation visible to the player, the latter being the original Hexen technical term meaning an integrated collection of maps. Books are more than just a collection of hubs and a storyline separation. They are also completely independent entities, meaning you can start a new game with a new character any play any Book. Depending on which Book you start with, the character you can roll will be a level 1 or higher character (Level 1 for the first Book, Level 10 for the second book etc). You can also continue the adventure from one Book to the next with the same character, or you can load a character from a saved game of a previous Book to start the new Book with. Below is the list of Books and Chapters. Book One: Korax (or Book One: Hexen) Prologue: Winnowing Hall Chapter One: The Seven Portals Chapter Two: The Hypostyle Chapter Three: Heresiarch's Seminary Chapter Four: The Castle of Grief Chapter Five: Necropolis Epilogue: Dark Crucible Book Two: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel Prologue: Ruined Village Chapter One: Blight Chapter Two: Chapter Three: Nave Epilogue: The Dark Citadel Book Three: Scattered Evil Prologue Chapter One ... Epilogue (Book Four etc.)

<!-- s:| --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_neutral.gif" alt=":|" title="Neutral" /><!-- s:| --> Haven't we modded original Hexen enough times? Why not just leave original maps for Kmod, reserving all space in SE for new stuff? Besides, that's what the fans are expecting, anyway. And it'd be a huge disappointment for them if Korax RPG is just 67% remake of old stuff, and only 33% new stuff.

Still better than bring out an RPG after 10 years that has only a dozen maps. And you forget the crucial points: a) You can breeze through whole hubs in a few minutes with the shortcuts that will be built into them (e.g. in the case of Seven Portals, you could just buy a key for the big portal at the end of the courtyard, skipping 99% of the hub). b) You can start at Book 3 if you don't want to even see the old stuff, you can roll a higher lvl (15 or 20 or so, it'll be determined through playtesting) and start without ever setting foot into the original Hexen maps. c) You obviously never tried the few original Hexen maps that have already been "upgraded" architecturally, most notably Winnowing Hall which blows you away if you check it out.

I also think it's a better idea to improve the original maps too, that way we'll have more stuff to show to fans and they'll be more patient for the new stuff IMO <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->. I'll make more comments on this when I'm back to my home from work <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

[quote="RambOrc":911v672a]Still better than bring out an RPG after 10 years that has only a dozen maps. Well, to be brutally honest, if I were just a fan (not a member) and SE finally came out, I'd be very disappointed that it was mostly remakes of the old maps (regardless of how great they are). I'm sure many others would be too. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if we ran a public poll, the fans would unanimously prefer new maps. [quote="RambOrc":911v672a]c) You obviously never tried the few original Hexen maps that have already been "upgraded" architecturally, most notably Winnowing Hall which blows you away if you check it out. So this is what our mappers have been doing all this time. <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> P.S.: I'd appreciate it if next time I (a legit team member) criticized the proposal, you keep an open mind and don't get so defensive.

Nobody is getting defensive, but facts are facts. After so many years, the maps made specifically for Korax RPG number maybe half a dozen and none of them are really finished (most of them done by me). Over the years 10+ people claimed they'll make maps for the RPG but none really ever did.

Another suggestion for the structure:

Book One: Fall from Grace Prologue Chapter One ... Epilogue Book Two: Resurgence Prologue: Winnowing Hall Chapter One: The Seven Portals Chapter Two: The Hypostyle Chapter Three: Heresiarch's Seminary Chapter Four: The Castle of Grief Chapter Five: Necropolis Epilogue: Dark Crucible Book Three: The Dark Citadel Prologue: Ruined Village Chapter One: Blight Chapter Two: Chapter Three: Nave Epilogue: The Dark Citadel Book Four: Scattered Evil Prologue Chapter One ... Epilogue Book Five: The Spirit Power Prologue Chapter One ... Epilogue

Looks good, but what would be in this Fall From Grace? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

[quote="The 4th Class":27j4zmbt]Looks good, but what would be in this Fall From Grace? <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> What else than the story of how Korax' armies took Chronos? :p Remember, this is still in a very fluid form, the only fix thing is that the number of maps we have available is sadly very limited, so we have to use everything we have - that includes not only every single map of the original Hexen and Deathkings, but also a lot of old Hexen maps that aren't that good. The one ace we have up our sleeve is the way the game operates, i.e. shortcuts are provided through all hubs, meaning there can be any number of maps in a hub some people hate, they never have to finish them. I'm sure a LOT of people got turned off Hexen because of the Guardian of Steel map and the too difficult puzzle in it. I'm convinced that if the first Hexen hub would've been Shadow Wood, the game would've achieved a much higher popularity. With the setup the Korax RPG has, we only need to make sure that the central part of any hub that the player must pass through is awesome looking and interesting to play.

Also, following another new excerpt about the inventory:

The inventory is somewhat similar to that of the original Hexen, but is two dimensional and is called backpack. There are eight columns and six rows available for a total of 48 storage slots. No item takes more than one storage space and many items can be stacked so that e.g. 20 quartz flasks together take only one storage space. The stackability limit depends on the item. Additionally, the original Hexen inventory remains in a slightly altered form as a belt with pouches; the only difference is that now its width is limited to eight spaces. The belt is a quick inventory, from which often used items can be activated in the heat of a battle. The belt works the exact same way as the backpack (except that it only offers one dimensional navigation), but due to its size and location distracts less in the middle of a fight and thus might be preferred for items like Flechettes or Discs of Repulsion. Certain specific items a player always carries with himself (like the map, the journal, the spellbook) are not considered items in game terms and don't take up inventory space. Weapons and armor that are equipped are not taking up any inventory space either. This means that a fighter can carry up to 9 weapons without taking up any inventory space.

In case it's still not clear, I want as much feedback as possible on everything in this design guide so that we argue and discuss now and not during development (which makes development cost ten times more and last ten times longer).

Honestly, I agree with Lucas about idea of playing Hexen&Deathkings remake. I thought we are supposed to make a game with only ours maps and where player start our brand-new scenario with 1st level, not 20th or 50th. BTW what about making 'Fall from Grace' a separate story with a character different than in Serpent Power and a tragic end? PS. Um, and - wasn't it 'SERPENT Power', not "SPIRIT" one?

Feel free to adapt any of my Dark Realms maps to fit our new SE maps, if we need to. I can also be a secondary mapper for you, but I'd feel more comfortable mapping with an objective in mind, instead of just mapping for amusement and then struggling to fit it into the game. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

LOL ofc is it Serpent Power. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Regarding maps, just make sure they have the original Hexen feeling. Since you like puzzles, those would be optional dungeons people crawl for exp and goodies. Regarding the game structure, another possibility would be to release modules, this is also a good thing if coding goes much faster than mapping (which I think it does). This idea I've brought up before, in the way of making a trilogy, where the first part of the trilogy is the original Hexen and Deathkings maps called "The Chaos Sphere" (there is a thread on it somewhere in the devforum). This has the one big drawback that virtually no new maps would be released in the first RPG installment. OTOH, starting out with the second part of the trilogy (Scattered Evil) would mean that if we later do the first part, there is no easy way to let you import your character from the 1st part of the trilogy to the 2nd part, as the 2nd part starts at lvl 1 too. Yes this is a difficult and at the same time crucial decision, that's why I want everybody to chime in. One thing we could do to see better is to make a list of all coding required (I'll start a separate thread for this) and have an estimate how long that would take. Estimating the time needed for making maps is relatively easy, and so we could have a better idea of how the time requirements of the two relate to each other. The third major part is the 2D art for the game, of which we already have a lot sitting around from previous years, so in a worst case scenario we could mostly skip this.

[quote="RambOrc":1v9qfhhu]Regarding maps, just make sure they have the original Hexen feeling. Since you like puzzles, those would be optional dungeons people crawl for exp and goodies. These days I like making giant maps (10,000 x 10,000 units) that envision a vast countryside, or a mountain range, etc. I'm a bit of a naturalist these days. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [quote="RambOrc":1v9qfhhu]OTOH, starting out with the second part of the trilogy (Scattered Evil) would mean that if we later do the first part, there is no easy way to let you import your character from the 1st part of the trilogy to the 2nd part, as the 2nd part starts at lvl 1 too. In theory this seems troublesome, though in practice I doubt most fans would even take advantage of the importing system. Probably we should stick with releasing first part first though, if I have spare time I can even try "revamping" a certain original map for you, can't be in 3D though. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> [quote="RambOrc":1v9qfhhu]The third major part is the 2D art for the game, of which we already have a lot sitting around from previous years, so in a worst case scenario we could mostly skip this. We've got hundreds of frames in KDev, IMO we have all the art we need. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Wow lots of smilies in this post. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Huge open maps are definitely a no for Korax RPG - this is the DOOM engine and while it is great for some stuff, it sucks in others. The engine is awesome in allowing you to fight literally hundreds of monsters at once, but the terrain should be more or less limited (not too tight, but also not too roomy) and you should NEVER be able to see too far in any direction or frame rates will tank. If you want wide open stuff, there are a lot of RPGs these days that can offer that, it's not like 8 years ago when I first laid down the concept for Korax' Heritage. As for importing the char, the game could do it automatically by checking for certain entries in the savegames (or it might even save this type of info separately) and offering a player at the beginning of a new game at the char gen screen a dropdown to import previous chars.

It was mentioned in the programming thread but it rather belongs here, we could release the Korax RPG in a similar way as KA, i.e. 1.0 not being the "full final" product. We could really start with a "deluxe" revamped version of the original Hexen and Deathkings, enhancing maps a bit and adding RPG items and quests beside the shortcuts (I think hardcore FPS gamers will love the shortcuts, enabling them to comprise the game into little more than a string of ultra-hard boss fights). This way, we could tell the story as long as there is interest, i.e. if after this release people flock here and offere their own maps, we can build any number of hubs and release every 2-5 of them together as the next episode in the Hexen saga. If we get positive feedback but no active mapping community forms, we can just release another chapter or two with the maps we already have (they all need some rework) and end the story there. Advantages I see are: - the RPG can be released this year - programmers are freed up to return to KA (which needs a LOT more coding as far as I can see) after a relatively short break - we don't work on something huge for years just to release it into a zero interest dead community

I like the idea, we begin development, let's first port the basic KMod features to Vavoom, combining things with revamped original maps (maybe calling it KMod 4 or something), then we begin working on the new stuff, importing new weapons, sprites for NPCs, convos, etc. combining with new maps, then make a 5.0 or 6.0 Kmod releae with all that or changing the name to Korax RPG (since it'll have new content added), it will make things easier in both ends, mapping and coding, programmers will be coding while new maps are being done.

I'm against releasing any new products under the name Kmod, save Kmod 3. Even if the first segment proposed by Rambo is mostly Hexen remakes, we shouldn't call it Kmod because in reality we have to associate it as part of the Korax RPG. Personally when I just joined this team, I thought that the whole RPG itself was to be called Scattered Evil, but then it became apparent that SE is in fact just a small segment of a larger project.

You can get the latest version of the concept guide at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/korax-rpg-concept_2007-08-17.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -08-17.pdf</a><!-- m --> As usual feel free to comment.

Spiritual Power (SP) is the developer codename for the energy pool of all three character classes that can be used for casting spells. The official names are (Battle) Rage for the Fighter, Magic for the Mage and Faith for the Cleric

... and the Force for Jedi <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

The names are the same since KMOD 1.0 but nvm

The cleric uses a mixture of physical combat and magics. He can use a number of melee and ranged physical weapons and can also cast magical spells. His magic comes from holy scrolls.

What are those scrolls? An items of some sort? Are they permanent or dissapear on use?

Dexterity (DEX) Increases the power of ranged attacks. Increases the regeneration rate of the Rage pool.

Shouldn't we make char's base armor value depend on Dexterity as in D&D? And also, what about magic resistance, which depend on Wisdom?

The spell system for all three works the same way in the background, but looks and feels different in the game itself. Just as the different classes have different names for SP, their spells also are handled in a slightly different way. While the mage has a big spellbook with chapters and tons of pages as he has a huge number of spells to choose from, the cleric has a significantly lower amount of spells and so he gets a cylindrical scrollcase he can strap to his back that has a bunch of rolled up scrolls in it. And with the fighter, since he has just a few (or even only one) spell(s), there is nothing really needed, just a shortcut key (and if he has several spells, then another key to cycle through the spells to set the active one for the shortcut key). Whether the scrolls are one-use items or permanent receptacles will be determined later (see different thread I will open after posting this). Regarding the suggestions for the attributes: basically not a bad idea, but there is no magical resistance in Korax RPG, there is only one type of damage and only one type of damage mitigation (armor). Don't forget this is an FPS-RPG where the combat system is all FPS and the stuff around it is enriched with RPG elements. OTOH DEX could be be an armor value modifier, e.g. it could be "armor = (base armor value + armor pieces) * dex/10".

[quote="RambOrc":29o1o06l]there is no magical resistance in Korax RPG, there is only one type of damage and only one type of damage mitigation (armor). Don't forget this is an FPS-RPG where the combat system is all FPS and the stuff around it is enriched with RPG elements. First of all, there are at least 4 types of damage <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->: - normal - fire - ice - poison, Poison damage, for example, that comes directly from poisoning, cannot be decreased by armor (obviously). Besides, now, after Janis made specific changes to progs, we may easily add new types, if needed. I also want to say, I think you worry too much about overflowness of RPG elements in game, IMO. Some of those elements, like mentioned magic resistance, could be implemented the way they will not bore player too much, otoh they give more variety to gameplay. Secondly, when I spoke of magic resistance, I thought primarily not about damageful spells, but about various enchantements that could be implemented in game now, like, I dunno, slowness, confusion, etc.

Well the important point here to consider is IMO that combat should not only retain a 100% FPS feel, but it should retain a 100% classic DOOM engine game combat feel - i.e. there must not be "best weapon for this or that enemy" stuff in the way it is in RPGs and some modern shooters. Monsters should have hit points and armor and they should react to any player damage the same way, no matter what kind of damage it is (hit by a mallet, shot by a crossbow, poisoned, hit by a fireball etc).

[quote="RambOrc":g6ikr0bb] there must not be "best weapon for this or that enemy" stuff in the way it is in RPGs and some modern shooters. Monsters should have hit points and armor and they should react to any player damage the same way, no matter what kind of damage it is (hit by a mallet, shot by a crossbow, poisoned, hit by a fireball etc). Frankly, I am rather suprised (in negative way) with this decision, because I personally hoped KoraxRPG will introduce a bit more various enviroment, and require a bit more thinking, compared to ordinary FPS.

Not in the combat system, no. There are gazillions of first person 3D action-RPGs out there that look like an FPS but the moment you enter combat it's like a spreadsheet application compared to DOOM. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> This game is about slaughtering a thousand half-dumb monsters in 5 minutes in a flurry of blood and gore, not about reloading a save game twenty times just to find out what weapon or spell works best on this new monster type you just encountered.

Once again, I think it's exaggeration. There could be limited number of creatures with resistances/immunities to some kind of damage - just to give more variety to the gameplay! For example, Ichor's Carnage Galor has monsters, immune to ice or fire. Quake had zombies that could be destroyed only by explosion, etc. If well made, those creature specifics will be easy to be noticed (e.g. burning Fire Elemental obviously can be thought as immune to fire damage). Otoh, NPCs may give information about them.

Actually, only one or two monsters are completely immune to something, and even then it's only one type of damage.

Crimson you are still thinking in terms of a Quake or Hexen II or a typical RPG where you fight 2-3, maybe 4-5 monsters at once. Think Heretic's Portals of Chaos, Hexen's Necrocity or the addon episodes for DOOM II - in Korax RPG, most combats will include 10-20 monsters at once. Since you can use quartz flasks, urns, spells and more to keep you alive during a long battle with lots of enemies, we can make a lot of the game huge battles. That's why it'll be so different to play the game as FPS or as RPG --- when you play FPS style, you will be low level all the game, with weapons that need several hits to kill the average monster, meaning in those battles you'll have to move around fast and have a good aim. But when you play RPG style, you will reach high levels, unlock more powerful spells and weapons, and even with clumsy real-time fighting skills you'll be able to master those battles as you will be able to withstand a lot more fire and your attacks will kill several monsters with a single hit.

Umm... actually I cannot get the general idea of what you just said in the context of previous discussion. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Point is, if you have 20 monsters at once to kill and they are from 6 different types, you will never kill anything if they are all resistant to something different.

Hey RambOrc, didn't I mentioned about exaggeration? <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> Those "peculiar" monsters may be either in limited quantities, or gathered in groups of similar entities, or semi-bosses after all.

I'm still absolutely against it - the beauty of those old DOOM engine games was that I used a weapon based on what I liked visually and sound-wise and maybe what I could find for ammo, but I didn't have to change weapons all the time for different mobs. Especially with spells, imagine you have a bunch of spells as a Mage and all your favorites are fire spells, if there are fire resistant monsters you have to throw half of them out from the 1-0 keys and add frost, poison etc spells even though you don't really want to use them.

[quote="RambOrc":8kgnhrcs]the beauty of those old DOOM engine games was that I used a weapon based on what I liked visually and sound-wise and maybe what I could find for ammo I agree that it's cool when you have a large selection of weapons and you may use whatever you want at the moment, but I still insist that limited number of stages where you have to choose right tactics including proper weapon selection may make a game more interesting. If such scenes will be correctly designed you will not have to change your weapons all the time. Just remember Hexen - there were a number of "universal" monsters, that could be met anywhere, and there were peculiar monsters, that were met only at specific regions (wendigos - in the ice caverns, wraiths - on the cemetry and tombs). Now imagine that wendigos are resistant to ice attacks and wraiths (for example) are well defended from non-magical attacks. Assuming player will have a good chance to get appropriate type(s) of weapon(s) to fight them, changing to that weapon(s) for a limited number of combats might not seem a problem for a player. [quote="RambOrc":8kgnhrcs]imagine you have a bunch of spells as a Mage and all your favorites are fire spells, if there are fire resistant monsters you have to throw half of them out from the 1-0 keys and add frost, poison etc spells even though you don't really want to use them. This argument sounds a bit strange. A wise magician should have at least couple of non-standart spells just in case. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> And again - a necessity to foresee possible problems and seek victorius tactics IMO adds a bit of finesse even to a hard non-stop slasher. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Anyway, what about making a poll on this topic? EDIT: I have another idea. What if we add an game option which enables extra RPG stuff like resistances?

I know how we can make things easier here <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, IMO we could just make certain monsters to take MORE or LESS damage from certain weapons/spells depending their type, this way every monster would be killed by EVERY weapon available, it would just require 1 or 2 more shots and it wouldn't be need of using a specific weapon or spell to make it, also, we won't force anyone to use specific weapons they don't like or don't want to use <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it's the best solutions I can come with, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Anyway, this is a very interesting discussion. It makes me imagine what we can achieve for KoraxRPG <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> .

Crimson if you can implement in the game this switch, that'd be ofc the best. I'd always have it switched off and you could always have it switched on. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Aha... <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> First I think I'll post a poll, simply to be sure that this switch we'll be used more than by 1 person. But what do you think if we have some weapons or spells that are specially useful against limited types of monsters? E.g. some 'Turn Undead' or 'Holy Light' spell against undead?

[quote="RambOrc":1h97o5bi]Well the important point here to consider is IMO that combat should not only retain a 100% FPS feel, but it should retain a 100% classic DOOM engine game combat feel - i.e. there must not be "best weapon for this or that enemy" stuff in the way it is in RPGs and some modern shooters. Monsters should have hit points and armor and they should react to any player damage the same way, no matter what kind of damage it is (hit by a mallet, shot by a crossbow, poisoned, hit by a fireball etc). Immunities for some monsters doesn't seem like a bad idea for me. In fact it could even enhance the DOOM feel by giving it a more strategic edge. Combat would still be really fast and FPS-like, the only difference is that some monsters are resistant to certain weapons.

I personally wouldn't like to have "immunities" on enemies, I would think something like what I described before, maybe a "holy light" (or something) that makes more damage to undead type of monsters for example, but this kind of monsters can still be killed by any other weapon too (i.e. it's not invulnerable, just needs more hits to be killed), hope this might clear my idea to you all <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of difficulty customization. Like toggling an option: 1. - no monster resistances 2. - allow monster resistances 3. - allow monster immunities. I don't think this will hurt anyone <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Though if there are going to be immunities/resistances, it should be a good idea to keep the number of different kinds of resistances very small, so as not it too complex for the FPS fan. Also, maybe some enemies are much WEAKER to certain elements? I think there should be no more than 4: - Resistance/weakness to fire - Resistance/weakness to ice - Resistance/weakness to whatever Firebrand was talking about with the undead. - Resistance/weakness to poison And I like what CW said about making this a toggle in the custom difficulty menu. That's a good idea. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Also, completely off-topic: how about Character Death Reality option? In some D&D games, if you turn this option on, that means that once your character dies, all the saved games that feature this character will be erased. It adds a sense of urgency to the character, but then again it is completely unfair. User is warned to use it at his own risk. <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? -->

Haha! It sounds a bit unfair for me too, I didn't even thought on that <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, I think it would make people go mad with complaints about it <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> . As for monsters immunities, it's OK to make and option or to make it just work on certain skill levels, it'll make it easier for FPS fans <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

There could be a double difficulty setting in the game: a difficulty setting and an additional RPG difficulty setting. If you set the latter to anything but "off", you'd have resistances or even immunities, there would be more spells and upgrades, there would be not only basic attributes but also talents or feats, and so on.

In simulators they call it "realism settings", heh. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I like Ramborc's suggestion <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, it wouldn't be too hard to implement, just add a new variable to store "RPG difficulty" or whatever it's called.

Let's make the game work firts, implement extra options then, ok? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

Uploaded latest version as <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2008-03-22.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -03-22.pdf</a><!-- m --> , as usual post your feedback here. Edit 18:40 - I've updated the document, if you have a 5 pages long version, be sure to refresh your browser and re-download it, the latest version has 6 pages.

Also found the mockup screenshot of how the inventory would look like. [img:36fuyss8]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxdev_old/koraxse_inventory.jpg[/img:36fuyss8]

[quote="Korax RPG concept":2wu9o6vi]While there are only a limited number of basic monster and weapon/spell types, most of them have a number of different variants that have slightly different statistics and also look slightly different. While there are only a limited number of Chinese...

To give you an example, the standard ettins are wearing brown panties I think. Imagine a version with yellow panties that's got 50% more hit points and hits 20% harder.

Heh, just was trying to invent a joke.

Go and check the latest architecture on the city map instead. :p

[quote="RambOrc":15ty3lug]Go and check the latest architecture on the city map instead. :p Did that already. Well, I can see how it begins to be detailed town, but there still alot to do <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

A question on extra features, just came to mind. Should these be implemented somehow? 1. Monster jumping from higher ledges. At the moment they can only walk down from low step. Original Hexen makes them die instantly when falling from high place without calculating possible damage. 2. Ladders? Like special linedef special that allows to climb on wall.

My idea was diferent regarding jumping monsters, make them jump TO high ledges, instead of down them, heh! <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> As for ladders, I think that would be cool too <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> .

Sure, any such engine/AI feature you can do is cool. Monsters getting stuck at corners or not being able to descend a step if it's a bit too high is just dumb and only fucked up losers ever thought it's cool to exploit them. :) This kind of AI should be as good as possible, it won't change the fact that the player can still kill a dozen of them at a time with good footwork.

Latest version under <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2008-04-20.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-20.pdf</a><!-- m -->

[quote="RambOrc":1oy465ts]Latest version under <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2008-04-20.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-20.pdf</a><!-- m --> So, does that map sketch represent the whole game map? Where that evil castle that was mentioned in concepts earlier, the one with portal to afterlife realm? And will there be Volcano in mountains?

It is a sketch, so pretty much no 3D locations are drawn in yet. The final one will be also bigger (resolution wise). In the north-east area, I am thinking about adding mountains too, volcanic ones with hot lava and stuff. So that all the lava 3D locations could be there, and the frost ones in the southern mountains.

I've got a nice idea for the travel map, I'll use the one you provide in the design guide and revamp it to look like the other image you posted some days ago, I promise to get on my feet this week <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->.

You mean like the DSA map? That'd be awesome! Until you've played a game with that kind of a travel map, you have no idea how much it adds to the immersion.

Updated version at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-19.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -02-19.pdf</a><!-- m --> , new is the chapter "Weapon handling".

Regarding Cleric weapons It's a bit surprising to see daggers/long bow there; in most RPGs cleric's usually prefer to not use blades. Well, that's just a comment. More importantly, in contrast to Mage entries which look like categories, Cleric's do not. Are these actually categories names or sample weapon names? Maybe there should be some description for each slot telling how to determine weapons for this slot (some characterisitcs maybe). Regarding some free weapon slots left for Mage/Cleric. I have an idea of Wave of Blades offensive spell, was thinking about it for some time already. We have at least 2 classes of dropped weapon decor for ettin (mace) and centaur (sword). Maybe axe and hammer could be added using existing sprites. Spell spawns a number of these and throws forth, they fly and damage enemies. This may fit Mage or Cleric. As a variant, a Wall of Blades, and/or Shield of Blades (weapons hurl around caster, protecting him). We may also make some "rain" spell; we have a rain spell from Heretic (the one that was spawned by Hellstaff), and Golden Storm that Dark Advisor uses. This won't necessary may be rain, but some bombs, fireballs, stones/meteors etc. A spell, that creates pools of lava/fire/poison on ground? What about a lightning strike for Cleric (like he calls for his god(s))? Strife has some nice lightning sprites.

Cleric spells are categories too. Circle of fire is a fire spell that creates a smaller or bigger area of effect around the target. The Fire Blast spell of the cleric from the original Hexen belongs inoto this category. Stalagmites are spikes coming up out of the earth, the ones used in the original Hexen as environmental effect (and used by Korax) would be one of the highest ranks of this spell. Raise ghosts is a class too, it includes the wraithverge (either with or without the actual weapon) and also the raise ghosts spell the mage got in KMOD 2.x (or 3.x?). Weapon ideas sound good, just make a suggestion which one would be on which weapon slot (feel free to suggest different numbering for the existing ones as well). Especially rain type should be included at least for mage, maybe cleric too. Shield of blades would be a non-offensive spell for either mage or cleric, that part of the system will work similar to combat spells, except that there would be either only one or 1-3 that are primed and can be used with the pressing of a single key, since they are not "fired" 20x in a battle like a weapon, but used only now and then.

Latest version is up at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-22.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -02-22.pdf</a><!-- m --> - please compare it with the old <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/Scattered_Evil_Design_Guide_2003-04-07.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-07.pdf</a><!-- m --> and list things that should be copied before I delete the old one from the server.

Well, story of SE (page 2), where Uber Heresiarch and his cult are mentioned (not mentioned in newest documents). Tiers descriptions are seem to be bound with exact maps, so I am not sure they are useful anymore, except for general ideas perhaps. Old concept mentions mage need a rest to recharge his staff (page 7), and also memorize "time-consuming spells" (not sure what are they); is this still appliable to SE? Melee weapon kinds: "There are 3 different types of melee damage: cut, crush and pierce" (pages 8-9)? Mentioned cleric can purchase charged staffs: "The Cleric can purchases enchanged magical staffs that can fire a predefined type of projectile" (page 9); Description of Journal (pages 9-10); SDK section (pages 10-11) and Music section (page 11).

Will write a short paragraph on the story as far as the cult goes (the Korax in the afterlife part might or might not get back in) and add the journal and music parts back in. As far as the SDK goes, I'd say what we have we release, what we don't have maybe once the whole game is released. The rest is obsolete or better suited for TSP.

I would like to point the story parts to our writter, so he can give his comments on that, as for what isn't written, pretty much what CW has pointed out <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->.

Exactly, poke your brother to write a story. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P -->

Updated version: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/koraxrpgconcept_2009-02-23.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -02-23.pdf</a><!-- m --> The travel map should probably encompass a significantly larger area, i.e. not just one valley but a bunch of valleys divided by hills, forests, deserts, mountain ranges. The main city would in this case be somewhere more towards the center (I also plan to make it span both sides of the river).

The story in this doc sais:

The game ends when he locates the temple, defeats the cult leader and its hordes of minions (and maybe destroys the temple itself as well).

But I remember a discussion or another document that mentioned that player should enter Afterlife, and seal portal behind himself, then battle Uber-Heresiarch. Player stais in afterlife with probability left he can escape in some kind of expansion set.

The Afterlife version was with a Korax, it was a different ending than the one with the Uber-Heresiarch; the two endings were penned at different times. At any rate, storyline is sketch only, FB's bro is supposed to write the story for SE. Feel free to put any requests towards what should be included in the story, it's a team effort.

I have an idea of the Broherhood of Asp, the clan of maniacs who live in inactive volcano and worship elder wyvern(ess); that's what I used as a base concept for my "house of asp" KA map.

You know that asp(en) is a type of tree, right? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

[quote="RambOrc":2fprfh4p]You know that asp(en) is a type of tree, right? <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> Umm... my dictionary sais it's a poisonous snake (=viper) <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> But it also mentions that it is an "archaic" and "poetic" variant for aspen, which IS a tree <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Oh, yes, and there was an archaic russian word Aspid, which means exactly the snake.

Hello lads (and lass), I know that I haven’t been posting regularly, but I’ve been busy with some things, I inscribed to a tale writing contest in my uni campus and it has been time consuming, but after this week it will be over and I´ll have more free time to write for the mod. Anyway, I´ve been checking the concept documents that Firebrand provided to me, specially the one with the list of maps (if I’m not wrong it´s the one called “Scattered Evil Design Guide with date 2003-04-07) and I downloaded the maps on that list to have some ideas for the history and some side quests, but I´ve noted that you have made a more recent concept guide. I’ve downloaded it and all the ideas referring to game play and weapons seems great to me, it will give the mod a unique ambiance and feeling (kudos for that!!!). But now I’m a little confused, would the maps that are listed on the older concept guide are going to be use? Or are you going to use new ones? I have thought in the first tier history, I just need to transcript it into a Word document and I would upload it tomorrow in a new topic. That’s all I have been doing. I also promise that I would try to post more often my opinions on the main aspects of the mod.

I'll give my two cents on this, we could use these maps for side quests and even for the main quests, some of those maps are good, but they will need to be adapted/modified for adding Vavoom specific features, besides, I don't think it's too important which maps end where, since we are still writing the story, if there aren't maps for something, we can build them later on development, the most important aspect is that we build a world that is believable to expand the original Hexen world <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->, those are my two cents <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

If the question is whether we will use the maps described in the old SE concept from 2004, yes we will use every single one of them, just place the crappy ones in out-of-way locations and not put any main storyline elements in them. BTW regarding the weapons of the cleric, I thought about it, how about replacing the daggers with the morning star and giving the fighter something else in its place?

[quote="RambOrc":2mfpdxih]BTW regarding the weapons of the cleric, I thought about it, how about replacing the daggers with the morning star and giving the fighter something else in its place? shotgun? <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

New version of the concept document uploaded to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/documents/koraxrpgconcept_2009-11-30.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -11-30.pdf</a><!-- m -->

I'll give it a check <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->.

[quote="RambOrc":mmo9s1up]New version of the concept document uploaded to <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/documents/koraxrpgconcept_2009-11-30.pdf">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -11-30.pdf</a><!-- m --> very interesting stuff, but

There are many action-RPGs out there, but they are all RPGs in the first place, and don't offer a simple and quick-paced fighting engine like first person shooters do.

there is Borderlands, its a fantasy post-apocalyptic, Fallout style in cel-shading with the Unreal 3 Engine. Not bad at all, you should give it a try! anyway, I believe that it is the way to go too, there is very little stuff like Hexen out there. The RPG elements add a lot of "charm"

Updated version: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://orcishweb.com/downloads/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/documents/koraxrpgconcept_2010-03-04.pdf">http://orcishweb.com/downloads/koraxdev ... -03-04.pdf</a><!-- m -->

I totally disagree with random monsters in travelling map, I don't see the need for such thing! Reminds me of turn based japanese RPG's, hate em! The rest is perfect so far!

They are only there if you set the RPG slider to max.

ah ok, it leaves space for breathing! and its only my opinion, not a real issue in the whole concept <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->