Don't talk about it to anyone outside the team, but I just realized there might be another KMOD version once Scattered Evil is out. What made me realized this are the damage skins (they would in no way change KMOD gameplay, but they'd enhance the gaming experience), and there might be other things, too, by the time we're through with KMOD. Or do you think it wouldn't be a good idea? It's just a spontaneous thought, not a decision yet in any way, so feel free discussing this. p.s. I have the feeling I *will* start writing the SE design guide this week... this is a strong feeling in my guts, so it might even hold true. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Sounds reasonable. I have another idea - doing this as a Vavoom mod.

If you do all the coding and wadmanaging work, I'll create an enhanced shop map. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] But I'd say such a porting shouldn't be done before SE is completely finished, I don't like the idea of working on 2 different engines at the same time. Especially that when using Vavoom, I always get the temptation of enhancing original Hexen maps too, and that would mean a HUGE amount of work for which we should get a couple of mappers... [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Good thing this discussion is rather theoretical as of now, I really have more work to do than time anyway. The farther away in the future something is, the higher the chance it might change. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

I think they are both good ideas. The hurt skins are a feature which can perfectly appear in SE and Kmod, without changing the true Hexen in any way (just cosmetics). As for the Vavoom version, I think it's good too, since it has lots of qualities, and it would be good by making it even more popular. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I just think we should do SE first, and then release this "new version" after it, when people would be already confortable with the hurt skins.

This is how I see this... it's just my personal view of things, feel free to dispute it in any way. 1) Scattered Evil. It's been overdue for years. 2) (if) New KMOD version with SE technology, still based on the same engine (if only damage skins, still worth an update). 3) Concept work starts for Korax Arena, once basic gameplay questions have been cleared, coding starts so that ASAP a first playable version can be out, featuring maybe a couple of lightly modified original Hexen maps, only multiplayer types being Deathmatch and cooperative. Parallelly, I'll start work on "Hell's Surface Deluxe Edition". Why? Mapping with the Vavoom features will take some time to get used to and I don't want to have to learn this and test my skills in shooting range on a mission critical project in the beginning. 4) Once "Hell's Surface Deluxe Edition" is out, mapping work can start on Korax Arena and The Serpent Power (concept design on TSP can start earlier on, it's yet open when exactly compared to the Korax Arena start). I plan to release new Korax Arena versions on a regular base, like every couple of weeks or 1-2 months at latest. We could include 1 or 2 new gameplay modes and a couple of new maps with every new release. Parallelly, work would go on on TSP, and thanks to the continous releases of Korax Arena and the already published Scattered Evil, we could really take our time with TSP, as long as needed to make it kick ass. I've got some rather shocking concepts for TSP anyway, more on this later though, it'll be included as comparison SE vs TSP in the SE design guide. p.s. I've been having an idea for a Heretic and a Hexen mod for nearly a year now, once we're through with SE, we might want to do them as well. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

What is this "Hell's Surface Deluxe Edition" ? Are you planning to modify your MOD? I agree with that guide. But what about Kmod 2 -Vavoom edition? [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] As for the Hexen and Heretic's mods ideas, PLEASE send them to us! I would really like to hear them.

I've been planning on enhancing Hell's Surface with Vavoom since early this year. There are a couple of things I had in my vision but DOS Heretic didn't support them, I'll try to add them this Summer or Autumn (or Winter, depending on when SE will be out, I'll start this work only afterward). I forgot to include KMOD Vavoom edition from the list, true. The basic question is whether we'd only want it as a simple 1:1 port, just with a different engine... in that case, it could be done at any time. But if we'd want to enhance the original Hexen maps (like swimmable water, slopes, 3D floors etc.), that'd be a BIG project I don't even know whether it'd make sense... indeed, I think we should stick to the first version, I would enhance the shop map or do a new one, just to show off the engine features, but leave the rest of the game the same. A couple of Vavoom-enhanced Hexen maps will be featured in Korax Arena anyway (can't wait to play an Assault on the Darkmere map where you have to release a REAL drawbridge so that you can storm the castle). As for the 2 mod ideas, very shortly, the first is a rather small mod, it'd be called "The Shotgun Mod" and would be the first Heretic gameplay mod ever. It'd simply replace the Crossbow with the DOOM shotgun (and in powered-up state with the double-barreled shotgun). It'd use the same ammo as the Crossbow, only things to change would be the in-screen weapon graphics, the projectile graphics, the sounds and the way the missiles work and the damage they cause. The other would be called "The Heresy Mod" and would allow you to play Hexen with the original Heretic character. The idea for this (and also for including the Heretic character in Korax Arena) came when Remi made a half implementation of the Heretic character into KMOD 2.0 pre-release, just for fun. It'd take a lot more work than the Shotgun mod, and a lot of thinking, as I want it to be playable without changing any of the maps, i.e. either monsters will have to drop different kinds of ammo, or certain artifacts will play a different role than in Hexen (e.g. every time you pick up a Disc of Repulsion, you get 50 orbs for your Hellstaff, or similar). But these projects are in the idea box for now. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

The ideas are fun, and should be done. I wouldn't put my finger in it, because no new graphics would be needed, but if you guys can do it, that would be great. It's funny when you talk about putting new characters in the Hexen/Heretic, because I had this idea for a Jedi Knight player, and really, I think he would fit pretty well in Hexen, because all his powers can be simulated by artifacts/features already included in Kmod. I made a sketch of all weapons and powers, with their animation and description, and if you guys would like to see it, I could scan and send it to you. Anyway, here's a short description: His only weapon would be, obviously, the Light-Saber, but with it, he could make different attacks (just different animations), with an effect similar to the one from the Quietus (3x damage). The light saber would also let him deflect projectile attacks, just like the Mage's Icon of Defender, but with a chance that it might fail and the player would be damaged (this power would, as much of the others, be ready only when the player gets to a certain experience level). Others powers: The Jedi would be able to "Push" enemies, like in the movies, copying the repulsion disc's effect, although it should only work in enemies, and not attacks. He could create a shield, like Darth Vader did to stop Han Solo's bullets in one of the movies, that could stop any projectile attacks, but with a chance that it could fail. He would be able to "Charm" inferior monsters, like the Charm ammulet in Ichor's CG3, that would fight at his side. And, his last power would be that Dark Force power some of the Jedi have, that ellectric attack, and it would work just like the Hereti's gloves, but with a bigger range. Of course, his power measure would be named "Force". [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] I don't think it would be as difficult to add than if we had to actually make up some original effects. That's why I think it would be great to have this as a secret player, like Reptile in MK1, or Akuma in SSF2. He could appear in KArena, or even in future releases for Kmod or SE, as a secret player, for single player games, or multyplayers too. What do you think? At least think about it, or my work will be lost in vain! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'm not even a fanatic of the movies series, but I really think it could be fun.

I'd say talk it out with Janis, if he's ready to create an add-on for KMOD where you can play the Jedi, and you do it w/o me, I've nothing against it... it's just that I don't want to work on any Star Wars stuff and I'm absolutely against making it an integrated part of KMOD, just as I made Remi to disable all Heretic character stuff in KMOD 2.0 (it's in the code and even in the wadfile, but you can't access it in any way, not even as a secret). As for Korax Arena, I don't want to say anything yet, it's too far out for such details.

Hey, c'mon, I don't want to hurt your feelings or anything. I just thoughti t would be a good idea, we have secret maps, why not secret players? But if you don't like the movie or the idea, forget about it. I WILL do the graphics anyway, because I want and because I would like to see if I can. Maybe if Janis want to help, I could talk to Ichor and implement it into his mod, if he wants. As I feared, all my work and thinking was lost in limbo. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] No problem. If Ichor doesn't want the Jedi either, no problem. I'll talk to Janis and see if he wants to put it into Kmod or SE, for us both. And if Janis doesn't want the poor Jedi either, oh well, I guess only the graphics will have to be enough for me. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] [ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Mago ]</p>

Anyway, it really makes me sad. I was expecting to see some huge battles, something like: "Jedi Knight vs. Conan the Barbarian, at the Bull Djinn's Realm of Death". Whatever... [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I guess today all my explanations are unintelligible (or have you been drinking last night, young man? LOL)... what I meant is you 2 could create an add-on for KMOD which you can separately download, install in your KMOD 2.2 dir and when you start the game afterward, you have a choice of 4 classes (or it could use a separate binary, starting that would make you be able to play only the Jedi character). Since KMOD is crap for multiplayer anyway, it wouldn't matter if there'd be still another incompatibility factor introduced (whether someone has the Jedi add-on or not). Is it understandable now or should I start for a 3rd time? [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I understood what you meant, but I also understood that you didn't like a bit. Anyway, I guess it depends on Janis.

Well, I don't want to mess with kmod (only fix bugs if needed). The best would be doing this as a Vavoom mod.

Alright, I don't have anything against it. If you want do the programming work, it can be in any way you feel good. It's your call. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]