Central town map

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Central town map

Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:29:25

RambOrc

I've uploaded a slightly modified new version of the town map at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/ScatteredEvil/</a> (it's newstreets.wad, if you don't have the scatteredevil.wad from the same dir get it too for the textures). Just load both wadfiles in Vavoom and check it out, give me feedback on the room (and on the street design if you haven't before).

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:30:40

RambOrc

What I need is more textures to make the town look good (especially inside textures), also a wad and an inf file that allows me to place NPCs and vendors. Moreover, we have 3D model support right? I'd like to place a couple (not many as to preserver performance).

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:38:41

Firebrand

Let me check KDev, I remember Mago made a WAD file from textures of Severance (or something like that), maybe you can use textures from there, also, we'll need to create a single TEXTURES and PATCHES lump with all of the things we already have if we want to use PK3 files for KRPG. I'll download the map and check it out to see what models would fit in it. We only need models for decorations, I don't really like models of monsters and items, the default Vavoom models are available now (lit/unlit torches and some decorations), I need to recheck what other models are on KDev to put them in the game too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. So it'll take some time, I have to move my lazy ass to make something now, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:02:20

RambOrc

For models, I was thinking more along the lines of stuff we had in the old Doomsday-based SE (check out those very old screenshots), like chandeliers and the like that can't be built from sectors and makes a huge difference in looks vs a 2D sprite. Also, since there is no fight in town maps, we can allow ourselves to put a bit more eye candy there at the cost of performance, and use exclusively or nearly exclusively 2D sprites in the dungeon and wilderness maps.

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:35:21

Crimson Wizard

First of all I suggest stop adding textures in old Doom WAD style and make them as PNGs. I hate dealing with PATCHNAMES and TEXTURES lump where a single mistake messes textures order. PNGs are much easier to add. [quote="Firebrand":6hiiuhfr]I don't really like models of monsters and items These models from JHexen are really ugly. But I think they could be made better... if we first make our model-makers start working <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /> By the way, serpent riding looks terrible when using sprite for serpent. [quote="RambOrc":6hiiuhfr]Also, since there is no fight in town maps, we can allow ourselves to put a bit more eye candy there at the cost of performance, and use exclusively or nearly exclusively 2D sprites in the dungeon and wilderness maps I don't think models decrease perfomance much, really. I'd rather suggest use models and switch to 2d art only if they really slow game. But once again - I do not believe this would happen.

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:01:00

Ichor

[quote="Crimson Wizard":1wqxl10d] By the way, serpent riding looks terrible when using sprite for serpent. Instead of the player sprite just standing on top of the serpent model/sprite, how about changing the sprite to a serpent riding sprite (like D'Sparil, but with different graphics for the rider). For the FP view, show the back side of the top of the head (bobbing up and down when moving). It could go something like this: Walk up close to the serpent you want to ride and press space or some other button. The serpent sprite changes to the rider sprite, and the player's view height goes up a bit. You can then walk or jump or whatever until you hit the button again (or perhaps fall off after being hit enough times). The rider sprite changes back and you'll be down on the ground beside the serpent again.

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:14:13

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Ichor":3201b51z][quote="Crimson Wizard":3201b51z] By the way, serpent riding looks terrible when using sprite for serpent. Instead of the player sprite just standing on top of the serpent model/sprite, how about changing the sprite to a serpent riding sprite (like D'Sparil, but with different graphics for the rider). For the FP view, show the back side of the top of the head (bobbing up and down when moving). Well, it's perhaps better solution anyway.

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:47:42

RambOrc

[quote="Crimson Wizard":19dnbn66]First of all I suggest stop adding textures in old Doom WAD style and make them as PNGs. I hate dealing with PATCHNAMES and TEXTURES lump where a single mistake messes textures order. PNGs are much easier to add. As long as I see the textures in WadAuthor, I don't care where they are.

Tue, 22 Jan 2008 21:16:05

Firebrand

That's the problem, since WadAuthor is old like hell, it can't see textures outside a WAD file or in PNG format, so my suggestion is to keep using WAD files for now, or update to a newer editor like Doom Builder (which isn't that easy to use as WadAuthor IMO). There's a new version of Doom Builder in the works, also, there's another editor which is written in C called SLADE, maybe if we have enough time we could mess with it to add missing features? i don't think it would be easy, but it's at least possible <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />. As for sprites for riding serpents, I agree, it's not too difficult to make, I've done some old sprites of an etting riding a death wyvern (which were lost on a HD crash <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /> ), it's not that much of work IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 08:49:11

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":msk9c71t] There's a new version of Doom Builder in the works, also, there's another editor which is written in C called SLADE, maybe if we have enough time we could mess with it to add missing features? i don't think it would be easy, but it's at least possible DoomBuilder can be modified too if one needs that because its open source. Written on C + Visual Basic combination (C for algorythms, VB for GUI). [quote="Firebrand":msk9c71t] As for sprites for riding serpents, I agree, it's not too difficult to make, I've done some old sprites of an etting riding a death wyvern (which were lost on a HD crash <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" title="Crying or Very sad" /> ), it's not that much of work IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. After some thinking about this I understood its not that good it may seem at first. For example, in current implementation you may have free look while riding. Now, if we have a serpent head sprite shown on hud like weapon, we need to make it move to (and beyond) screen edges depending on view angle, and I am not sure it will look very nice. If we use models for this, we could make player model have extra "ride" states and be placed on serpent's neck properly, or joint model. Anyway, from player's view 3d serpent head will look nice. If we use sprites, player+serpent sprite could be made as a single one ofcourse (its the only way to make it look good IMO), but HUD sprite need some workaround.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:57:21

RambOrc

I am so bursting with joy nobody took a look at the map but filled this thread with stuff that should go into another thread. At any rate, I've uploaded a newer version of newstreets.wad, if somebody would deign to look at it I've got a problem with one of the floor slopes and haven't been able to figure out what's wrong with it.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:35:44

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":2s6dtg2n]I am so bursting with joy nobody took a look at the map but filled this thread with stuff that should go into another thread. At any rate, I've uploaded a newer version of newstreets.wad, if somebody would deign to look at it I've got a problem with one of the floor slopes and haven't been able to figure out what's wrong with it. Oh, don't you worry, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> I've check the version you uploaded yesterday, and frankly I don't really like the design of the town that much, I thought it would be a bit more opened, it feels like a labyrinth IMO, just long closed halls, I know that the engine can't handle too big open areas very well, but that's not the idea I had in mind <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, I was thinking something like small "squares", I'll explain myself better this time. What I meant was to make small open areas which the engine would be rendering divided by tall buildings, so that other small open areas don't need to be rendered as a whole, making the impact on performance smaller, this way the town would be as the first version, but would run drastically better in-game <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. Hope my explanation was better this time <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />. I'll get the new version and comment on it later, as for the new thread, it would be cool if someone could split the topic too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, to maintain order in the discussions.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:54:45

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":cj3gvkhv] if somebody would deign to look at it I've got a problem with one of the floor slopes and haven't been able to figure out what's wrong with it. First of all, you are using Ceiling slope instead of Floor slope (in the sector to the right), plus I think it should have Z position equal to left one (though I don't know what your intension was). Then, if you are going to make sloped roof, I suggest you make it separate sloped 3d-floor. Also I found out player can pas thru translucent windows <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> they need an 'impassable' flag set. And, there are 2 strange subsectors at the church with different ceiling height than surrounding sector. By they way, since you mentioned you are using WadAuthor; WA uses instant sector creation method where you define number of sizes and sector is created automatically. While this method has its advantages (like you can easily create circular sectors), it can be messy on large and complex maps. Meanwhile DoomBuilder allows to create any shape of sector manually in rather convenient way. I tried both and finally I am on DoomBuilder <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:21:47

Firebrand

Hmm, seems like I'll need to check the new version of the map, I'll do it this afternoon and post my comments again <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:22:40

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":1pm6ayvd] What I meant was to make small open areas which the engine would be rendering divided by tall buildings, so that other small open areas don't need to be rendered as a whole, making the impact on performance smaller, this way the town would be as the first version, but would run drastically better in-game I have another prposal: what if we take that big town map when most streets are completed, divide it on regions (conventionally) and each of us will make his region(s) more detailed. Even if most of the map will be made by RambOrc, there could be some limited places to make a couple of buildings, a shop, a tavern, a small hut etc.

Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:27:58

Firebrand

It could work, but we first need to locate each of the important things in the town IMO.

Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:55:07

RambOrc

Uploaded the latest version at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/newstreets.wad.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ts.wad.zip</a> I guess nobody will look at it just like before. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />

Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:38:23

Crimson Wizard

Well, I see you are experimenting with various buildings types <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I believe there will be lots of work needed to make a good detail. And it is still possible to jump through transparent glass. Also, is it so that you try to make cathedrals towers higher than main building? I suggest stop doing that by making outer sectors having > or < ceiling height and make all sky ceiling the same; highest buildings should have normal wallks then, and lower ones ahould have walls that do not reach ceiling, while roofs be made of 3d floors. This would be the best IMO.

Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:16:08

Firebrand

The problem with this is that the area would then become open, the engine will slow down and we'll be back to where the first town map failed <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /> . My suggestion would be to use the technique CW says, but using it in smaller closed "squares" i.e. separating small open areas with solid walls that reach the sky height, why don't give it a shot? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> I like the way you are doing new structures with 3d floors <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, nice work! Keep up with it, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:00:11

RambOrc

LOL trust me I know what I am doing (at least I hope so). <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I want a town that feels big and has many places, but renders fast all the same - and also can be built in a sensible time frame. So I skip details wherever I can and put in some condensed into certain places where there are a lot of details at once so people notice how nice they are (the building with the two stories you can enter right now will have about four by the time I'm done with it). What I'd need as soon as possible is a bunch of new combinations of windows and doors on existing textures, like the monkxx texture series etc the same way other 128x128 textures have windows and doors pasted on them. The second kind of thing I'd need is 256x256 textures where the same 128x128 wall texture is present 4x, but a window is only pasted in the upper left and lower right quarters. p.s. windows are passable as I have seen no reason yet to make them unpassable, it's a simple linedef attribute on a bunch of linedefs later when necessary

Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:42:30

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3srlnwkf]I want a town that feels big and has many places, but renders fast all the same - and also can be built in a sensible time frame. So I skip details wherever I can and put in some condensed into certain places where there are a lot of details at once Well, that's reasonable, but perhaps some limited details here and there will add a nice feeling of variety. For example, make one building wider here, that building lower, a couple of balconies, a standing out tower hanging from 2nd storey and so on; I believe these changes won't slow framerate. Anyway, if there will be slowdowns, you can add a sort of gates or bridge-like house piece across the long street; or, the town could be divided into 2-4 smaller maps if it grow really large. [quote="RambOrc":3srlnwkf]What I'd need as soon as possible is a bunch of new combinations of windows and doors on existing textures, like the monkxx texture series etc the same way other 128x128 textures have windows and doors pasted on them. The second kind of thing I'd need is 256x256 textures where the same 128x128 wall texture is present 4x, but a window is only pasted in the upper left and lower right quarters. You can do these yourself, its quite simple, just new entries in TEXTURES lump table.

Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:50:31

RambOrc

Those small touches are a given ofc. Regarding texture lumps, unless you give me a step-by-step guide I don't know how to do it.

Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:10:14

Crimson Wizard

First of all, WAD texture is not an image but "configuration" that defines which images are used and how. Images themselves are called patches There are 2 TEXTURE lumps in Hexen wad, 1st contains most of them, 2nd only one single texture, not sure why. I believe you better enter new textures in the first one. I think texture editing is similar in all wad editors (I saw XWE and WinTex). 1. Open texture lump. You will see 2 tables, first lists textures, second - texture contents. 2. To create a new texture in XWE select in menu Textures->New (don't remember about WinTex). 3. Enter texture name, width and height. 4. To add a patch to the texture select Textures->New Patch (in XWE). Manually print patch name or corresponding patch ID (defined in PATCHES lump script). If needed, define X and Y offsets (patch position on texture area). 5. Repeat paragraph 4 if needed, to add more patches. Don't forget to save TEXTURE lump.

Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:12:59

Firebrand

There are smaller "doors" in some of the town textures, they were scaled down and pasted in the wall textures there, so it's not that simple, to keep with the visuals in the town doors need to be smaller, the only solution I can find would be to separate the smaller door sections from them and add them as patches so that CW solution works, I'll get to upload a zip file containing the doors as patches and then you can work on putting them on the PATCHES and TEXTURES as needed <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. EDIT: Advantages of having them as separate textures: I think that these door and window textures need some cleanup, if this is done, we only need to modify a single image and all textures will automatically be updated, also, it'll be easier to create any combination of patches. The patches for doors and windows are here: [url:3in0f9r6]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/SE_Patches.zip I also remember I made some new textures and I cleaned some others up a bit, you might want to update the textures in SE WAD with these ones: [url:3in0f9r6]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/sprites/TPack1.zip <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:00:53

RambOrc

I'm using WinTex so I'll need step-by-step instructions for that. The TPack von FB is a bunch of BMP files, not a wadfile.

Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:55:17

Crimson Wizard

Ok here you go. Instructions for WinTex. Find TEXTURE1 lump in your WAD. Double click to open Texture editor. A leftmost list shows existing textures. Middle list shows patches in selected texture. Rightmost list shows all the available patches. To create a new texture select Textures->New texture. Type in a name, click OK. Set a texture size by moving sliders in the top-right corner of the Editor window. To place patches on texture click on wanted patch in the rightmost list, then move mouse to the texture image (top-left corner) and notice patch image is moving after your mouse. Place it as wanted, correct position using 4 buttons in the center (Up, Lft, Rgt, Dn) (patch must be selected in the middle list to do so). Repeat adding patches if needed. Click Delete to remove patch from texture. (this does not delete patch from WAD). Click Move to reposition selected patch by mouse once again.

Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:09:01

Firebrand

OK, I made a wad file with the new textures and it's placed here: [url:3qbmohpz]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/se-wad.zip

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:44:48

RambOrc

Got it, successfully created a texture and put it into a map. One question left, how do I make a texture higher than 128 units?

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:53:14

Firebrand

IIRC, wintex has some limits in texture size, you could try using something else, like Slumped or XWE, they are similar in interface to wintex. I'll look into it later to see if I'm correct thought <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. EDIT: Or you can place the texture in the map and play with it's X/Y offsets to see if you manage to get what you need <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />.

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:16:10

RambOrc

No that doesn't help me any - the game renders textures only once vertically on the main texture when the linedef is passable. Tested it, when it's the above one it works fine, but not on main. So I need textures that are 384 and 512 high. I guess that means using something else than Wintex, can you give me a link to what I should use?

Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:26:02

Firebrand

Sure! XWE Editor: [url:qse2g2tx]http://www.doomworld.com/xwe/ Slumped: [url:qse2g2tx]http://slumped.mancubus.net/ Download any of them and click on the TEXTURES1 or TEXTURES2 entries, the rest is easy to learn <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />, of course, if you need anything else just ask, heh!

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:41:16

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":1znoebwj]No that doesn't help me any - the game renders textures only once vertically on the main texture when the linedef is passable. Tested it, when it's the above one it works fine, but not on main. So I need textures that are 384 and 512 high. I guess that means using something else than Wintex, can you give me a link to what I should use? I am not sure Vavoom supports common textures (created in TEXTURE lump) that high. Possibly, PNGs should be used.

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:10

RambOrc

What is the max height Vavoom supports then?

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:07:20

Crimson Wizard

I don't know for sure myself, so I asked here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1284">http://www.vavoom-engine.com/forums/vie ... f=4&t=1284</a>

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:44:04

Crimson Wizard

Got the answer. So, basically you are limited by 2048x2048 for patch and 4096x4096 for texture. And you can use both TEXTURE lump and spearate files.

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:23:04

RambOrc

More than enough. Which editor allows me to work with textures of this size?

Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:18:22

Crimson Wizard

Both XWE and SlumpEd support these limits, but for some reason they both do not have scrolling in the texture editor, so one will probably have problems viewing and editing a texture larger than 512x512. SlumpEd has MUCh better design <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> <a class="postlink" href="http://slumped.mancubus.net/">http://slumped.mancubus.net/</a>

Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:11:17

RambOrc

slumped is in rar, can someone download and repack it as zip for me pls?

Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:45:26

Crimson Wizard

That's strange, they have something with their website. I downloaded it in ZIP originally. Okey here you go: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/utils/slumped_07.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ped_07.zip</a>

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:13:57

RambOrc

<a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/balconies.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... conies.zip</a> contains a temporary version of scatteredevil.wad along with the town map, I had a couple of weird things in the beginning when editing with slumped, will restart adding textures from scratch later. For the moment, just use this wadfile temporarily when viewing the town map.

Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:47:15

Firebrand

I really like those balconies a lot <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, I think that you were right and things are taking form slowly now, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:13:15

RambOrc

OK I've found out what the problem with the wadfile was - I used the new one from you FB and downloading and trying it again unaltered, it already gives me errors and Vavoom doesn't start up at all. Before I start adding new patches and textures en masse, let's have an official and tested version of this wadfile so I can build on that. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:32:38

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":1l7gnho4]Before I start adding new patches and textures en masse, let's have an official and tested version of this wadfile so I can build on that. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> You may use my code available on SVN already, so maybe make not just an official version of wadfile, but an official internal alpha. (I think it just needed to be slightly updated to the very latest Vavoom revision) Then it would be possible already to make NPCs with simple dialogs.

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:40:01

Firebrand

I agree, I'll check my wadfile with the new code CW made, if everything works as expected, I'll upload it as an internal alpha, if doesn't works, I'll post my findings here, so we can check what the problem could be, OK?

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:40:29

RambOrc

Erm that's not what I meant - what I meant is that the scatteredevil.wad file FB uploaded last week has missing patches and that's why Vavoom won't start up with it - I removed the textures in slumped and it worked. That's why the version I uploaded is temporary.

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:15:00

RambOrc

For the moment, I think best would be to have a separate wadfile just for patches/textures so I can continously add stuff to it as I design maps. Should I use an older, working version of scatteredevil.wad or do you want to start a new wadfile from scratch?

Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:20:03

Firebrand

I think any of the things you posted are possible, it's easy to start a wad file from scratch too, so I guess, you can do whatever is easier for you <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:01:30

RambOrc

I feel left to my own devices in something others on the team can do. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> Creating new textures from patches goes fine now but I am just frustrated with adding new patches from bitmaps, slumped is crashing all the time when I try to do this and when I add it with wintex slumped doesn't see them. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" />

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:18:14

RambOrc

Come on guys this is pretty urgent as right now I am on vacation and can do lots of work on the rpg maps and textures, but this issue is completely blocking me.

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:44:35

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":18v1905j]I feel left to my own devices in something others on the team can do. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> Creating new textures from patches goes fine now but I am just frustrated with adding new patches from bitmaps, slumped is crashing all the time when I try to do this and when I add it with wintex slumped doesn't see them. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> I myself didn't used WinTex much, I used XWE mainly for adding patches and all other things, and my experience in SLumpEd is limited mainly to adding sprites to PK3 packages. When patch is added it must be "registered" in PNAMES lump like

W_244    : 352

Where W_244 is a name of graphic and 352 - patch UID. EDIT: I successfully added several patches with SlumpEd. But at current moment I can see that Slump does not recognise these new add patches as patches, but as image type. Will try to fix this. EDIT2: And yes, in one occasion I got a crash. EDIT3: Just re-read SlumpEd readme, it seems this editor still lacks some features. Probably you''' have to use XWE or WinTex for adding patches, and if SlumpEd still will not see them in Texture editor, sigh, you'll have to use XWE to create large textures. (Lunk to XWE and instructions earlier in the thread).

Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:16:41

Firebrand

Remember patches should go inside their markers P_Start and P_End, this is necessary if you are using WAD files only.

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:12:02

RambOrc

K the good news is I figured out how to add patches with XWE (which BTW automatically saves all changes at once so is much less forgiving than other WAD editors) and I can see and use them in Slumped, here is a screenshot of the building with the balconies now: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/balconies.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... conies.jpg</a>

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:10:54

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":bjwx3863]K the good news is I figured out how to add patches with XWE (which BTW automatically saves all changes at once so is much less forgiving than other WAD editors) I believe it makes backups as well. So be careful, it may stack your game folder with lots of megabytes <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. Balconies are nice, but does Vavoom really allows to add multiple "main" textures on different heights? How these grates are done?

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:12:42

RambOrc

LOL I always thought you are the smart one and I'm the bumbling idiot. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> From the inside, you can't add any texture to the balconies with the implementation I use (I have thought of a way how to do it, but that would take a lot of effort for no real gain). On the outside, I just use a 512 units high texture.

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:18:11

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":29mx4d30]LOL I always thought you are the smart one and I'm the bumbling idiot. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> From the inside, you can't add any texture to the balconies with the implementation I use (I have thought of a way how to do it, but that would take a lot of effort for no real gain). On the outside, I just use a 512 units high texture. Bah. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" />

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:10:25

Firebrand

Nice Screenshots! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /> BTW, you can configure XWE to just create one backup file in the options menu it's an option like "create just one backup file" or something like that <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:30:26

RambOrc

Latest version of the city: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-03-23.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -03-23.zip</a> The cathedral is about half done.

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:52:43

RambOrc

I've added 7 city screenshots at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/</a> also the wadfile should be the latest version.

Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:48:25

Firebrand

I really like those sloped roofs! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /> The town map is coming along really fast and really well IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />, nice work!

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:26:54

RambOrc

Well time to bring in the non-interactive NPCs then so there are people walking on the streets (or urinating around a corner). <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:35:18

NeoWorm

Yeah, I am working on it. Monster/people sprites are real pain to make...

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:17:08

Crimson Wizard

[quote="NeoWorm":3er5wsbe]Yeah, I am working on it. Monster/people sprites are real pain to make... Can you tell which ones are you making? We will know which classes to add. And, huh, maybe we can already launch that map under first KRPG internal build. If only I manage to adapt my custom classes to new Vavoom in time <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" />

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:58:14

Firebrand

Once that's done, we can begin additions of RPG feature (leveling up, stats, etc.) to the player class, and then add the new spells/weapons, it's going to be more easy since Vavoom now has DECORATE support, we only will need to code new methods for the weapons, the rest can be done externally in the PK3 files <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:23:12

RambOrc

What I sorely lack for the town map ATM is textures (I mean patches in the engine sense of the word, i.e. bitmaps), especially for different kinds of stone, brick and wood. Also a couple of new types of windows. I'll combine them into a number of stuff, just need the base ones. Oh yeah also some roof stuff.

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:34:04

Firebrand

We already have those, I uploaded a WAD file containing them... but I don't know if it works or not... it's a few posts back <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:11:33

RambOrc

I think I am working with that file, but it has only a few new textures and a lot of color modifications for roofs.

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:29:46

NeoWorm

[quote="Crimson Wizard":36su0muy]Can you tell which ones are you making? We will know which classes to add. And, huh, maybe we can already launch that map under first KRPG internal build. If only I manage to adapt my custom classes to new Vavoom in time <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /> I am trying to make a sprite sheet for generic townpeople. I will do 3 types man, woman and fat man. Each one should have 3 parts head, body and legs. I will make something like two types of legs, 3 types of bodies and 3 types of heads. Which combined can make 3x18 different sprites +recolors... it should be enough for one town... but it will take a while to make it. [quote="RambOrc":36su0muy]What I sorely lack for the town map ATM is textures (I mean patches in the engine sense of the word, i.e. bitmaps), especially for different kinds of stone, brick and wood. Also a couple of new types of windows. I'll combine them into a number of stuff, just need the base ones. Oh yeah also some roof stuff. I can look at this too, but I dont know when. I already have enough work for another year.

Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:39:05

Firebrand

I'll try to create new textures like the ones you previously described, once I have something I'll upload it to KDev.

Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:01:43

RambOrc

Latest version at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-03-31.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -03-31.zip</a> including governor's mansion and a bunch of small additions/enhancements. What I need is a longish style of window more suitable for rich houses, not small windows as we currently have. They should be something like 64x96 or even 64x128 instead of the current 64x64 size. I am also in dire need for a base stone texture like the one on this picture: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.klett-franzoesisch.de/horizons-paris/notre-dame.jpg">http://www.klett-franzoesisch.de/horizo ... e-dame.jpg</a> for the church.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 10:01:11

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":29cw0ybd] I am also in dire need for a base stone texture like the one on this picture: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.klett-franzoesisch.de/horizons-paris/notre-dame.jpg">http://www.klett-franzoesisch.de/horizo ... e-dame.jpg</a> for the church. Mago had alot of various textures, he placed some previews on kdev: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Example15-3-05.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 5-3-05.jpg</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/mago/Exampleflats.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... eflats.jpg</a> Maybe we should contact him and ask for these?

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 13:44:49

Firebrand

There were already some wad files with textures in KDev IIRC, I'll look for them and merge everything in a single file, so you can create textures for adding to the game.

Tue, 01 Apr 2008 15:44:21

RambOrc

Just make sure you add all that to the latest version of the scatteredevil.wad file which I upload every time with the town map (in the same ZIP).

Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:34:05

RambOrc

Latest version uploaded, <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-04-06.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-06.zip</a>

Mon, 07 Apr 2008 12:36:25

Firebrand

I'm working on the new patches slowly, you'll have a new textures wad file soon <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":-)" title="Smile" />

Sat, 12 Apr 2008 12:35:18

RambOrc

Latest version under <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-04-12.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-12.zip</a>

Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:48:27

The 4th Class

It's coming along. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_clap.gif" alt="=D>" title="Applause" /> It'd be nice if, in the final version, we could swim along the creek by the start, perhaps to another level, or the other side of town.

Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:11:32

Crimson Wizard

Yah, and tis good to have some stairs leading to water surface already; if you fall down occasionally you'll have to use 'noclip' cheat <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:34:26

RambOrc

Crimson don't make comments on the latest version if all you tried was an older one. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />

Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:55:32

Crimson Wizard

Oh, heh, my mistake. Well, its good to see the open area, now it really feels like a river.

Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:56:58

The 4th Class

Or instead of swimming downstream, there is a boatman by the dock who will sail you to a new town, which is visible on the DSA-inspired map system Ramborc has planned. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_angel.gif" alt="O:)" title="Angel" />

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:49:20

RambOrc

Well that's a given anyway, there is a village upriver and another downriver. Making boats should be pretty quick and easy with a few 3D sectors.

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 12:57:39

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2zh9lk5t]Well that's a given anyway, there is a village upriver and another downriver. Making boats should be pretty quick and easy with a few 3D sectors. And we can make NPCs boatmen that drive boats for price )

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:12:41

The 4th Class

Don't wanna get too mechanical, but the boat could just be a 3D sprite, instead of a set of sectors. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orchmm.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /> Wouldn't it be simpler that way? O yeah and how about a map that takes places at high seas? I believe I already did this in Dark Realms so I have experience. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:52:50

RambOrc

As always said, feel free to create any type of dungeon maps, they don't need to be connected in any way thanks to the travel map. BTW there is no such thing as a 3D sprite. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:16:43

NeoWorm

By the way, maps for SE are in normal Hexen format, or something special? And, slopes are made in the same manner as ZDooM slopes?

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:46:38

Crimson Wizard

[quote="NeoWorm":j3dv4j6s]By the way, maps for SE are in normal Hexen format, or something special? And, slopes are made in the same manner as ZDooM slopes? SE is based on Vavoom engine (<a class="postlink" href="http://www.vavoom-engine.com">http://www.vavoom-engine.com</a>), which uses common Hexen map format. Slopes are made either with slope floor/ceiling thing or floor/ceiling vertex height things. For more detailed info you may (and better do) refer to engine's webpage (link above) which has forum, WiKi, and couple of demo maps. (Sorry, I've explained this too many times to do it once again <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc10.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, besides why copy those explanations over again if they are alerady written somewhere) EDIT: For example here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.vavoom-engine.com/wiki/index.php?title=Editing#Floor_slope">http://www.vavoom-engine.com/wiki/index ... loor_slope</a>

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:16:19

Firebrand

I really like the latest version of the town map, if we add an advanced skybox from the latest SVN revisions of Vavoom it'll look WAY better, we can now make what you (Ramborc) described years ago, we have the possibility of using a unique view for every side of the skybox, but the best thing is that instead of it being a plain texture in a square it's built of actual 3d sectors, which makes it even more impressive, I'll be sure to make an example of this someday <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:41:15

RambOrc

Make a simple example soon or point me to a step-by-step guide how to create one myself, I want to see how this exactly works (out).

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:35:07

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3e6hnhdn]we have the possibility of using a unique view for every side of the skybox, but the best thing is that instead of it being a plain texture in a square it's built of actual 3d sectors [quote="RambOrc":3e6hnhdn]Make a simple example soon or point me to a step-by-step guide how to create one myself, I want to see how this exactly works (out). I guess its something similar to what I saw in Serious Sam, like when you build a closed sector with some details and put there some "origin" or "world center" thing, and that sector is rendered as a surrounding area for all the rest of the map with its contents multiplied in size. It was used to make large 3d objects (like pyramids) be visible from every opened point of map. Heh, hope I am right.

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:03:52

RambOrc

Actually at least in one Unreal map the skybox seemed to be working on the same principle, with the fly cheat you could reach a mini version of the skybox somewhere outside the normal part of the map. At any rate, such a technology would have a couple of interesting uses, worth testing it a bit. Gief tutorial! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccrazy.gif" alt="orccrazy" title="orccrazy" />

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:10:05

Firebrand

You both are right in that, it's the way this works, you place a viewpoint in some place in the map, bu the advantage is that you can change things in real time using ACS or add special effects with dynamic, static lights, etc. I'll update and upload the KRPG configs with the new things added as viewpoints for skyboxes, I'll also work on a small example, so you can use it as base if you want <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />. This might be ready for the weekend, so stay alert, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:28:12

Crimson Wizard

[quote="Firebrand":3pc9kwlo]I'll update and upload the KRPG configs with the new things added as viewpoints for skyboxes, I'll also work on a small example, so you can use it as base if you want <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />. This might be ready for the weekend, so stay alert, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Maybe you write a tutorial on Vavoom Wiki? That wasn't updated for ages.

Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:43:49

RambOrc

Would this enable to put a sun into a map that is at a defined position in the sky and the whole map is lighted according to that single light source?

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:48:13

The 4th Class

It'd be even COOLER if we could do that for the moon! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:41:34

Firebrand

It would allow us to use a texture for the moon or the sun, but it wouln't make the whole map lighted by it's light, but you can make it appear like the sun can be seen on the distance with dynamic lights placed on the skybox secotrs, since AFAIK, they are independent from the rest of the map <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:41:15

Crimson Wizard

Janis is making mirrors <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcgift.gif" alt="orcgift" title="orcgift" />

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:09:04

Crimson Wizard

New skyboxes: Well, basically you just make skybox sectors separate from the level (as for 3d floors) and put there a Skyview camera thing. All the rest is up to architecturing and proper texturing. Basic skybox: [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky001.jpg[/img:24cezixg] Skybox with sky textures (looks ugly, need more proper textures for this) [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky002.jpg[/img:24cezixg] Skybox with some architecture inside: [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky003.jpg[/img:24cezixg] [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky004.jpg[/img:24cezixg] Skybox with static lights. Notice these lights have no effect on main level area at all. [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky005.jpg[/img:24cezixg] Heh, BIG KORAX in the skybox: [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky006.jpg[/img:24cezixg] Waaaaaah! monster is ruining the city!! )))) [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky007.jpg[/img:24cezixg] [img:24cezixg]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/sky008.jpg[/img:24cezixg]

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:40:51

Firebrand

Run away!! It's Koraxzilla!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcchoked.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" />

Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:53:47

RambOrc

LOL I like the Korax Kong stuff <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcbisoux.gif" alt="orcbisoux" title="orcbisoux" />

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 01:09:39

The 4th Class

Beautiful <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> except for ugly skyboxes, but I think that could be easily changed right?

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 01:34:25

Firebrand

Instead of square sectors you could use circular sectors, and instead of using the same texture for the ceiling of the skybox, you could easily define new flats as clouds, with 3d floor transparencies, even layered skies will be possible <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />. Imagine we could make a certain map fill with black clouds to make a cut scene <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. This brings a lot of possibilities IMO.

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:35:18

Crimson Wizard

[quote="The 4th Class":1cixuj9m]except for ugly skyboxes, but I think that could be easily changed right? Question is mainly in using textures that create a seamless sky picture; original ones do not, because they were not supposed to be used like that. [quote="Firebrand":1cixuj9m]Imagine we could make a certain map fill with black clouds to make a cut scene In fact, we can use not 3d sectors, but even actors for that. For example, we can use even original Hexen fog patches to simulate clouds rouphly.

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:53:03

The 4th Class

CW, is the Korax in the skybox an actual sprite? Or just an inanimate image? And what about the firebolts? If they were real damn that would kick so much ass <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/eusa_dance.gif" alt="\:D/" title="Dancing" />

Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:37:43

Firebrand

It's actually an object placed in the skybox sector <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, so that's why it's so amazing <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />.

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:09:13

The 4th Class

... and can it damage the player? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" />

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:55:47

Crimson Wizard

[quote="The 4th Class":2lkerbqu]... and can it damage the player? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /> No. At least at the current moment - no. It's it simply an image rendered over ceiling with f_sky texture. To be clear: there's a bunch of sectors that play skybox, possibly with actors (sprites). These MAY interact with each other. Then, there's a camera inside that skybox. Engine builds an image of that camera's view, then just copies that IMAGE over main map area sky. Perhaps there could be other possibilities in future, but I know nothing about that. Also, you may enter that skybox sectos using noclip cheat and then you will interact with that Korax, and possibly will become part of the skybox <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:36:20

The 4th Class

You could always spawn the firebolts from the direction of the object in the skybox! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /> <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /> <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcevil2.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" />

Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:02:30

RambOrc

Slightly updated version at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-04-27.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -04-27.zip</a> I am still looking for a simple and clean way to add the guardrails on the backside, with the balconies it didn't really matter but in the large tenements building it really looks stupid when you go upstairs and walk around.

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:19:30

RambOrc

FB how does it look with the textures you wanted to add to the gfx wadfile? I don't want to cross-update the wadfile while you are working on it too, that would mean one of us having to redo all work. I need to add some stuff to it ASAP so if you have an updated version with new patches pls upload it so I can continue working with that one. p.s. can the skybox sector be actually more than one sector?

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:10:18

Firebrand

Yes, once i'm back from work I'll test the map with my latest textures WAD file, if everything goes well, I'll upload it and post the URL for it <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. As for the skybox, yes, it can be more than one sector, you can have any number of sectors, what's displayed depends on the viewpoint position and angle, if you want, I can create a raw skybox on the town map, from there you can add remove/change whatever you want <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />.

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:32:52

RambOrc

Cool, can't wait for the new textures. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:11:11

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":2f9dh3xr]FB how does it look with the textures you wanted to add to the gfx wadfile? I don't want to cross-update the wadfile while you are working on it too, that would mean one of us having to redo all work. I need to add some stuff to it ASAP so if you have an updated version with new patches pls upload it so I can continue working with that one. p.s. can the skybox sector be actually more than one sector? I've tested the wad files together, it seems you've added a few new textures, right? I see them as unknown ones, I'll merge my new patches (since I haven't made any new textures yet <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" />), with those of the wad file and upload them, so you can combine independent windows and doors with any other wall textures you wish <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />.

Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:18:14

RambOrc

Yep, I only need patches, can make textures out of them myself.

Thu, 01 May 2008 16:25:15

Firebrand

You've got them on KDev now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, they can be downloaded here: [url:2favtet4]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/firebrand/se-wad.zip I've added independent window and door patches, so you can combine them with whatever textures you want or need <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, if you need anything else you let me know and I'll work on it with high priority <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Thu, 01 May 2008 19:19:29

RambOrc

can't open the ZIP file

Thu, 01 May 2008 22:01:17

Firebrand

Ok, please try the same link again <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Thu, 01 May 2008 23:26:48

RambOrc

Got the wadfile now, will check the contents tomorrow.

Sat, 03 May 2008 12:22:47

RambOrc

The file is about 300 KB bigger, but I can't locate a single new patch in it. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" />

Sat, 03 May 2008 13:45:21

Firebrand

Patches are numbered like kw_0XX, new patches come from 078 to 090, they are mainly windows and doors separated for combining them with any walls you need <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Sat, 03 May 2008 13:59:26

RambOrc

Ah OK those are in, didn't notice them as being new as I was expecting new designs. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Sat, 03 May 2008 14:12:09

Firebrand

Of course there will be new designs, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> I'll work on them ASAP, I've got some ideas from the town map already <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Thu, 08 May 2008 20:16:08

RambOrc

<a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-05-08.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -05-08.zip</a> This one has a lot of unfinished touches on the new architecture, but I wanted to show what's in my head.

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:08:04

Firebrand

I like your progress so far <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />, for the balconies with only one texture, why don't you make a new control sector for the 3d floor sorrounded by two-sided lines with the grate texture and make this sorrounded sector the 3d floor control sector? (I hope my explanation is clear enough <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orcpascompris.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /> ). Also, some time ago I've been thinking on commenting about the river, it looks good, but it's missing some line horizon special in the edges of the map, I'll explain how it works shortly. You need to make a new sector to be the "boundary" for the horizon, then on the line that will be the edge of the map, place the line horizon special, so the sector will be resized infinitely, thus creating the sensation of vastness to the horizon <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />, it might not work on the version you are using, since it's been implemented in the dev version only (which KRPG is based on <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />), I've updated the config file for KRPG if you want to use this specials, you can find the latest config in the SVN repository on our SF.net account <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Fri, 09 May 2008 16:52:32

RambOrc

Wow that sounds cool!

Sat, 10 May 2008 11:14:55

RambOrc

Since we are reaching the point where even plain architecture is starting to use KRPG features (and NPCs should arrive any day now, poking CW), I think it's time to have an official internal KRPG binary now for all further work.

Sat, 10 May 2008 12:59:20

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3z7k3l4f]Since we are reaching the point where even plain architecture is starting to use KRPG features (and NPCs should arrive any day now, poking CW), I think it's time to have an official internal KRPG binary now for all further work. Okay, okay, all I need in fact is to update my code to latest Vavoom changes and make a config for WadAuthor (there's already one for DoomBuilder on SVN). I think I'll make this today or tomorrow the latest.

Sat, 10 May 2008 14:31:54

RambOrc

Cool, as soon as you can get NPCs into the code and config file, it'd be cool. Building a town would be much better if I could see people standing and walking around in it, to better see how the scale is working out.

Sat, 10 May 2008 19:22:06

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":1n7vkn5k]Cool, as soon as you can get NPCs into the code and config file, it'd be cool. Building a town would be much better if I could see people standing and walking around in it, to better see how the scale is working out. There's no need to hard-code NPCs, they could be done using decorate already.

Sat, 10 May 2008 19:38:41

RambOrc

Just write up how I do something and I will, you see I create my own textures from patches now. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Mon, 12 May 2008 11:08:03

Crimson Wizard

Uploaded new internal release: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/KRPG_internal_20080512.zip;">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 80512.zip;</a> should support all latest Vavoom features like horizon and skybox. Demo maps now include new small map with 3 npcs (map05 in krpgdemo.wad). NPCs are totally made using decorate, see koraxrpg/basepak.pk3/actors/krpg/townfolk.txt. Conversation scripts could be seen (and edited): koraxrpg/data.pk3/con_khtm.txt. Sorry, no time to explain how all this stuff works now, later.

Sat, 17 May 2008 13:32:40

RambOrc

Got NPCs working on my town map, for the horizon thingie can someone make a simple sample map? BTW is there any reason why the KRPG version takes so much longer to start up than plain Vavoom? Even after I removed the -debug option from the batch file.

Sun, 18 May 2008 12:04:02

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3925ekgl]Got NPCs working on my town map Heh, I would like to see <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. [quote="RambOrc":3925ekgl]BTW is there any reason why the KRPG version takes so much longer to start up than plain Vavoom? Hmm, never noticed, do you refer to app launch or map load? Is it really noticably longer?

Sun, 18 May 2008 15:47:28

RambOrc

Application launch, much longer. Will upload NPC screenshot later on.

Thu, 22 May 2008 12:42:40

RambOrc

NPC in action: [img:lpvdit42]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/npc1.jpg[/img:lpvdit42] [img:lpvdit42]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/npc2.jpg[/img:lpvdit42] Would it be possible with not too much coding that an NPC you start a conversation with first turns to you?

Thu, 22 May 2008 14:15:06

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":28qvwrf8]Would it be possible with not too much coding that an NPC you start a conversation with first turns to you? LOL, yep, I was thinking about this too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Will do this soon.

Sat, 24 May 2008 16:46:44

RambOrc

Latest version under <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-05-24.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -05-24.zip</a> You can view the architecture in Vavoom fine, if you want to see the NPC you need to run the map with the KRPG executable (see link further above), with modifying the batchfile to contain something like this: Vavoom.exe -opengl -devgame koraxrpg +resolution 1280 1024 32 -particles 100000 -file krpgdemo.wad Scatteredevil.wad newstreets.wad

Sat, 24 May 2008 19:15:10

Crimson Wizard

Have you tried making your own dialogs?

Sun, 25 May 2008 20:41:20

RambOrc

Been working on the architecture for the moment, will try later on. Latest version of city: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-05-26.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -05-26.zip</a> A couple of new screenshots: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/tenements1.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ments1.jpg</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/tenements2.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... ments2.jpg</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/riverside.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... erside.jpg</a> Edit: Uploaded slightly modified version of wadfiles, new riverside screenshot.

Wed, 28 May 2008 08:28:17

RambOrc

Where the fuck is everybody? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":?:" title="Question" />

Wed, 28 May 2008 11:59:17

Crimson Wizard

LOL, I visit the forum almost every day, but I have literally no time to do anything for KH; extremely busy, having hard times IRL right now.

Thu, 29 May 2008 02:16:59

Firebrand

Really cool! Heh! It's coming along very well IMO, I really like the progress so far, I'll be busy for the next weekend, I'll be presenting a certification exam on Java programming language (CJP) and traveling to Queretaro (another state near to where I live) for all the weekend, so I won't be around for this weekend <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />, wish me luck pals. I've been working on KA map for CTF to test the bot's AI and working on adding new textures for KA (which not all are made by me, but we can add credits too, so I don't see any trouble there <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />). Keep up the great work Ramborc <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /> .

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:25:26

RambOrc

Latest version at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-06-07.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -06-07.zip</a> Screenshots: [img:wcbe1x97]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/koraxrpg_2008-06-07_01.jpg[/img:wcbe1x97] [img:wcbe1x97]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/koraxrpg_2008-06-07_02.jpg[/img:wcbe1x97] [img:wcbe1x97]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/koraxrpg_2008-06-07_03.jpg[/img:wcbe1x97] [img:wcbe1x97]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/koraxrpg_2008-06-07_04.jpg[/img:wcbe1x97] [img:wcbe1x97]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/koraxrpg_2008-06-07_05.jpg[/img:wcbe1x97]

Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:31:39

RambOrc

I tried to upload the pics through korax-heritage.com/admin but the password is obviously not bull-djinn so no idea <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:46:34

Crimson Wizard

Still same dialog? C'mon, RambOrc, you can make it! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> (Manual for dialog scripting is in latest krpg build package, 'edit folder, file is 'conscript.html', dialog itself is in koraxrpg/data.pk3)

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:17:58

RambOrc

Can I use WinZip to edit pk3 files?

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:56:24

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":b71xeiu3]Can I use WinZip to edit pk3 files? Is it really worth asking instead of trying ? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> Well, yes, pk3 is simply a zip archive with renamed extension.

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:11:22

RambOrc

You always tend to forget that I only have a Winblows PC at home for this project, and I do nothing else on that PC except for editing wadfiles and testing the Korax games. I asked about WinZip because it needs I download it to a normal computer, then copy it over to this PC, install it and then find out whether it can open .pk3 or not. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:37:09

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2k8aqn6y]You always tend to forget that I only have a Winblows PC at home for this project, and I do nothing else on that PC except for editing wadfiles and testing the Korax games. I asked about WinZip because it needs I download it to a normal computer, then copy it over to this PC, install it and then find out whether it can open .pk3 or not. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Well, in fact I didn't know that at all. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orchmm.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />

Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:43:13

RambOrc

LOL I mentioned it several times over the years. I switched from Windows to Mac OS X in 2005 and never looked back.

Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:36:12

Crimson Wizard

BTW mansion looks good, though it could benefit greatly from using more textures, these light-grey walls look a bit out-there compared to surrounding town.

Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:25:23

RambOrc

Whole texturing will be replaced since in the meantime I used that roof and wall texture for the cathedral.

Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:34:54

Firebrand

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> looks really cool! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /> I can't wait to test this out myself, I've got the new things with sprites setup with DECORATE, I only need to add the new resources to the wad files <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> , I'll be posting it tomorrow morning if I've got the time, heh! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /> [quote="RambOrc":2sqqyq6i]I tried to upload the pics through Korax-heritage.com/admin but the password is obviously not bull-djinn so no idea <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Hmm, I don't know what's the problem there, I'll give it a look today and update you with any news I get <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />.

Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:11:01

RambOrc

New version up at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-09.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-09.zip</a> I also uploaded a few screenshots, <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/sept9a.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... sept9a.jpg</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/sept9b.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... sept9b.jpg</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/shots/sept9c.jpg">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... sept9c.jpg</a>

Wed, 10 Sep 2008 00:05:36

Firebrand

Looks good! It's starting to shape up pretty well, I've managed to convert the latest models from JHexen to Vavoom format for decorations, meaning that every existing decoration from hexen is now a 3d model, which will enhance even more the maps IMO <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. I'll post some screenshots of this tomorrow <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:06:17

RambOrc

New version under <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-14.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-14.zip</a>

Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:49:45

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3brvfzkc]New version under <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-14.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-14.zip</a> Well, it's really nice to see this progress with these houses and sloped streets. But I have couple of remarks. 1. I strongly suggest you use not single floor slope thing for the whole road slope (especially curved ones!), but height vertex things, that allow to build complex terrain by using triangle sectors. 2. Doors maybe should be in alcoves?

Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:57:27

RambOrc

[quote="Crimson Wizard":23mj8dcb]I strongly suggest you use not single floor slope thing for the whole road slope (especially curved ones!), but height vertex things, that allow to build complex terrain by using triangle sectors. Actually, it's more like the other way around - with a floor slope, I can make a long winding street with a single sector and a single floor slope object, simply splitting the side linedef with a few vertexes. Quick, easy and looks good. With triangle-shaped sectors, it would be a lot more work to achieve the same.

Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:14:03

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":18uiz050][quote="Crimson Wizard":18uiz050]I strongly suggest you use not single floor slope thing for the whole road slope (especially curved ones!), but height vertex things, that allow to build complex terrain by using triangle sectors. Actually, it's more like the other way around - with a floor slope, I can make a long winding street with a single sector and a single floor slope object, simply splitting the side linedef with a few vertexes. Quick, easy and looks good. With triangle-shaped sectors, it would be a lot more work to achieve the same. But it looks unnatural, when slope starts it's ok, but after a corner slope goes in "wrong" direction - one side of the street is raised, opposite is lowered. This is because slope thing slopes setor in one direction only all the way around. Using height vertices will give much different effect.

Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:38:29

RambOrc

I didn't notice anything weird about those sectors, will check in-game.

Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:19:45

RambOrc

I see what you mean, but it's not unnatural, there are plenty of streets on the side of a hill, where the houses on the two sides of the street aren't at the same height.

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:20:10

RambOrc

New version under <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-21.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-21.zip</a> I have added some chimneys with smoke (if the red, it will need to be recolored and "un-sparkled"), post which type of smoke and which size of chimney you prefer. EDIT: updated the link, the hillside area is starting to take shape.

Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:47:36

RambOrc

Latest version: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-22.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-22.zip</a> The new wadfile from Firebrand is much smaller but still contains a number of textures several times and some of the textures have a space and an extra number at the end of their name in WadAuthor, might be worth looking into it. In the northwestern corner of the map, at the docks, try running around a bit and looking around and you will get a segmentation error:

- VOpenGLDrawer::DrawMaskedPolygon - VRenderLevel::DrawTranslucentPolys - VRenderLevel::RenderPlayerView - R_RenderPlayerView - SCR_Update - Host_Frame Log: Doing C_Shutdown Log: Doing CL_Shutdown Log: PLAYER left the game Log: Doing SV_Shutdown Log: Doing delete GNet Log: Doing delete GInput Log: Doing V_Shutdown Log: Doing delete GAudio Log: Doing T_Shutdown Log: Doing Sys_Shutdown Log: Doing delete GSoundManager Log: Doing R_ShutdownTexture Log: Doing VCommand::Shutdown Log: Doing VCvar::Shutdown Log: Doing ShutdownMapInfo Log: Doing FL_Shutdown Log: Doing W_Shutdown Log: Doing GLanguage.FreeData Log: Doing VObject::StaticExit Log: Doing VName::StaticExit Uninitialised: Doing Z_Shutdown ERROR: Segmentation Violation

No idea how long it has been there, haven't worked at/checked that corner for a long time. Lately there are huge slowdowns if I turn at certain places in certain directions, maybe I should close off some of the long streets in the middle or make a huge curve in them to clip visibility. On the bright side, I am quite liking the look & feel of the stuff I did lately. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:22:12

Crimson Wizard

Nice work, I like the town <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> I was away from this project for quite a while, but perhaps will continue working on travel map soon. Also maybe I will make couple of map sketches for inner town areas, maybe some catacombs or cellars. [quote="RambOrc":38zytyjp] In the northwestern corner of the map, at the docks, try running around a bit and looking around and you will get a segmentation error: This less likely is caused by map structure, I've got similar error many times but using software renderer. Looks like it fails to draw translucent surface, water maybe. Better tell Janis about this.

Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:26:46

RambOrc

You better do that, as once I am finished with the city, work will suddenly speed up immensely. Not only is the city a hundred times bigger than the average village, I am also learning the tricks and testing new ideas. By the time I do villages, I estimate making the average village in maybe an hour or so. At which point the travel map will be the important link between all those.

Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:10:39

Crimson Wizard

Well, I have an alpha version of roads builder, that is suppoed to create binary data for roads from bitmap (i.e. you draw road system on bitmap using specific colors only, then run this programm and it analyses the image and makes a binary data with road coordinates). It works, but have some bugs, like cutting single plain "road" in sections for no obvious reasons. After this program is tested, I will have to make our mod read this binary data and draw those roads on map in game already. EDIT: Surprisingly fixed this just now <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> perhaps will upload app for test tomorrow.

Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:50:08

RambOrc

new version: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-27.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-27.zip</a>

Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:38:11

Firebrand

I've been using UNWAD (which is posted on the Vavoom forums if anyone else is interested), it can create PK3 files from resources inside a WAD file, creating the needed directory structure and stuff, I'll use it to fix the problems with ScatteredEvil.wad and create separate files for each type of resources, I'll be posting the new files soon <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />.

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:46:54

RambOrc

Latest version: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-09-29.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -09-29.zip</a> FB are you currently working in the wadfile(s)? I have a bunch of textures to add but I don't want to work on the wad the same time you do.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:58:23

Crimson Wizard

Although I still doubt this sloped street should look like it looks now, in general the hillside region is very nice. But I noticed that it is all opened area, I hope that you will be careful and will not make all or most of the town the same way or this will lower framerate. By the way, are those large gates exit to travel map?

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:13:53

RambOrc

1) Let me guess you live in a completely flat area? It looks right to me. 2) Frame rates seem to go down due completely different things I would have guessed. The huge open area doesn't really slow things down, OTOH if on the upper street I look towards the three houses with the mini-gardens in front and the steps leading up to the doors, there I get a massive slowdown and I got that even before the big open area behind existed. My plan is same since the beginning: create a number of such areas all through the city, separated by curving streets that limit rendering. Just like this hillside area and the area around the cathedral don't influence each other in any way as far as rendering/visibility goes (nor does either interact with the Academy of Mages in the north). 3) Yes, its an exit to the travel map. Either the gate itself or there will be an object right before it you can interact with (to make things more obvious, we could use a road sign with multiple directions like this one: [img:2r41rgt1]http://www.alpenverein.at/wolfsberg/Bilder/Berichte/Ladingerspitz_Tafel.jpg[/img:2r41rgt1] That way players would always know what to look for to exit a 3D map to the travel map. We could make it real easy and simply put it as a bitmap or 3D object into a small sector the linedefs of witch react to the "use" key and take you to the travel map.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:56:21

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":3r42il07]1) Let me guess you live in a completely flat area? It looks right to me. Yeah I live in completely flat area <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc4.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /> But I've seen numerous sloped and spiral roads and they were usually made so that height difference between road sides in one slice is small. Unfortunately I could not find any proper photo of medieval town with such street, maybe they did it differently... anyway my opinion is based more on my engineeric views.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:13:24

RambOrc

And mine on living in a city where the old town is half on a hill and is medieval-ish and I can go there any time I want, it's like 15 mins on foot from where I work. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> As for the engineering part, on a steep hillside if you would want to make a street even, that would mean houses on the low side would have a story or two that would be underground from the perspective of the road. Sure it is done in places but it's not a clearly superior engineering alternative compared to paving the street the way it is, especially in an age where there isn't much vehicle traffic.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:34:16

Firebrand

[quote="RambOrc":1dmy1d54]FB are you currently working in the wadfile(s)? I have a bunch of textures to add but I don't want to work on the wad the same time you do. Yes, I'm actually going to complete the transition of sprites and misc stuff the wad file has, once I complete it, I'll upload a new wad file with just textures, so you can add and change whatever you need, I'll be done shortly, I hope...

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:22:42

RambOrc

Cool, finishing up texturing certain buildings (I need new 512 high textures for a house type) can wait a few days, I will work on other parts in the meantime. BTW did anybody notice those little touches I did in the area you can see when you look through the fence right at the gate? I think that's the kind of little things that make all those fake buildings and streets look like a lot more.

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:37:10

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":r1s091dv]BTW did anybody notice those little touches I did in the area you can see when you look through the fence right at the gate? I think that's the kind of little things that make all those fake buildings and streets look like a lot more. Umm, if you mean those bushes, balcony and red smoke chimney then yes I did. The balcony facing city wall felt a bit strange there though, but its a matter of arcitectural taste maybe <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> Perhaps you should add linen hanging from the rope <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:58:25

Firebrand

It was quicker than I thought, I've got the new textures only wad file, it's here: [url:3l09tnnf]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/Textures_WAD.zip I've created PK3 files for graphics, data stuff and sprites for KRPG, I'll upload them tonight. I haven't had the chance to check the latest town map, but I guess it should look awesome! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />

Thu, 02 Oct 2008 12:28:40

Crimson Wizard

I decided to make a map or map sketch with a small town on the hill (or mountain); at first I was going to make a simple demo on using height vertices to make a complex slopes easily (just a spiral road), but then I was inspired by RambOrc's latest city version and decided to make something bigger. Will post some shots in a while.

Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:38:04

RambOrc

Show!

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:07:49

RambOrc

Come on show it!

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:19:06

RambOrc

Oh come on CW you even posted a long text on the forums and still no screenies of your map!

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:47:19

Crimson Wizard

Wow, what made you so exited? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orclaught2.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /> Sorry, I surely will show anything, just want to make it a bit larger. But there's no "revelation" anyway, just a curved ascending road and common buildings aside.

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:14:46

RambOrc

I don't care how small, I want to see how someone who thinks differently builds stuff.

Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:27:33

Crimson Wizard

Okay, so,... I didn't like what I did so I deleted the map and started all over again, <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orchmm.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /> but since you are interested I uploaded current map version to kdev: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/krpg/maps/spiral_20081005.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081005.zip</a> Should be run either with ScatteredEvil.wad or with Textures.wad. Here's possibly the only decent screenshot I could take (not so much to photograph there yet): [img:2r1kvdcl]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/spiral_shot001.jpg[/img:2r1kvdcl] As you will see, the spiral road is made by pairs of triangles that form quadrants. Usually I was trying to keep the slice even, not always though; also there are some rouph places that need fixing perhaps, but that's a matter of future design. There's a slope on mountain which is made also by triangles, and it has a graphical glitch (at least on my machine): one triangle is not rendered if looking on that slope from certain angle. There's one thing I wish to speak of. When I explored the newstreets.wad I noticed that linedefs that are used as a base for a slope(s) have arg1s varied vastly. I do not know if you ar aware of this, but in fact you may use only a limited range of arg1s for this purpose. That is because floor/ceiling slope things do not search whole map for matching linedef arg1 but only lines of their sector. You only need different arg1s if you have more than one slope base linedef in sector. (Hope I explained this well <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> )

Sun, 05 Oct 2008 17:07:09

RambOrc

You mean as in arg1 is not like a tag number, right?

Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:12:44

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":2g9kwljv]You mean as in arg1 is not like a tag number, right? Arg1 is argument number One <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> of the linedef, which you set to determine the slope. This Arg1 of linedef is equal to Slope thing Tag.

Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:14:58

RambOrc

Finish up this map, it'll be one of the coolest towns in SE. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> I just learned something else as well, namely that a vertex height object needs to have only triangle shaped sectors joining it BUT it doesn't need to be competely surrounded by triangle shaped sectors. Greatly simplifies things.

Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:30:22

Crimson Wizard

[quote="RambOrc":26f78a5s]Finish up this map, it'll be one of the coolest towns in SE. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> Umm, thanks <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /> here are couple of new screenshots then - [img:26f78a5s]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/spiral_shot002.jpg[/img:26f78a5s] [img:26f78a5s]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/spiral_shot003.jpg[/img:26f78a5s] [quote="RambOrc":26f78a5s] I just learned something else as well, namely that a vertex height object needs to have only triangle shaped sectors joining it BUT it doesn't need to be competely surrounded by triangle shaped sectors. Greatly simplifies things. True, but take care, there could be terrible glitches in some situations. For instance, try not to make neighbour non-triangle sectors lower than highest point of given triangle sector (the one that is made using height vertices, that is). Try to always make natural joints

Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:19:22

RambOrc

Upload new wadfile! I want to see it! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc6.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" />

Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:03:18

Firebrand

Woah! Nice mountain like town! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orccool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" />

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:50:42

Crimson Wizard

Latest version of the map: <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/krpg/maps/spiral_20081009.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... 081009.zip</a> [img:uyqey7vl]http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/crimson/temp/spiral_shot004.jpg[/img:uyqey7vl] It seems that I crossed some distance limit or maybe used some specific architectural components that cause slowdown, but there's now a fps drop in certain places; and also possibly some graphical glitches in sloped triangle sectors. The town stretched a bit far away from the road compared to my original plan, perhaps I will make a level border there and maybe a passage to another map (again, possibly there could be another part of this town); then continue building stuff strictly along the spiral road.

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 13:19:12

Firebrand

The slope rendering problem seems to be an engine fault, it doesn't renders textures on sloped sectors correctly, maybe we should report it to the Vavoom forums too <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc2.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />. As for the slowdown, from the screenshot you placed here, I can only deduct that the problem is the big open space you placed there. You placed some really complex sloped houses there, you are displaying two on the foreground of the screen (it looks cool BTW <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" />), and then you can see an unfinished hallway on the back part of it, even displaying a small amount of sky, you could place a one sided structure there to avoid having this problem, or make a tall building that avoids rendering of that point of the map.

Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:57:16

RambOrc

Uploaded a newer version at <a class="postlink" href="http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev/koraxrpg/city_2008-10-09.zip">http://downloads.orcishweb.com/koraxdev ... -10-09.zip</a> Looks very unfinished, I was cutting off streets and making new ones for rendering purposes. We should make different threads for the different maps IMO, this gets confusing. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/orc9.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /> And this current thread is very long anyway, so I will start a new one for my map too.

Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:26:53

RambOrc

New topic is at <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.korax-heritage.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2038">viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2038</a> so I am closing this one. For discussions of other things than the main SE city from this thread, open other threads as well.